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  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: Indiana
Posted by hkshooter on Monday, November 1, 2010 1:48 PM

I agree with Bill and also understand doogs points. It takes all kinds to make the world go round and since the beginning of time there have been those who prefer to distinguish themselves as a group from the whole. And there have been folks who don't like those in those groups. Whatever. As long as humans are human this will happen, just like as long as humans are human they will kill each other in war, rescue one another in disaster, talk behind each others backs, and open their doors to those in need. I'll not say I'm happy about one thing over the other, this isn't the place for tossing those grenades. One thing I WILL say is whatever it is people like, whatever groups they want to be in for whatever reasons, I'm fine with that. The phrase "birds of a feather stick together" didn't come out of nowhere.

  • Member since
    May 2007
  • From: Taxachusetts
Posted by camokid on Monday, November 1, 2010 2:01 PM

Bgrigg
Trust me, there is plenty of diversity and occasionally animosity, we ARE human, after all, but all-in-all, it's a fun bunch of guys.

I know back a couple years ago, you and I 'discussed' a thing or two rather deeply, as we are both rather vocal in our opinions/viewpoints... but in the end we came out friends regardless.

I also know I've ruffled a feather or two, albeit unintentional but it happens. I've seen people huff and puff and storm out over stupid stuff, sometimes they quietly come back, others never do.

I can say that the place I first experienced is very different than it is now though, there are no more hilarious photoshopped pictures of members to laugh at, no more LEMur of the month, no more milestone/achievement announcements and I for one miss the goofy back and forth banter of the fenderbender guys...

but that's life, constant change.

Ken

Build how you like, like how you build

 

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Left forever
Posted by Bgrigg on Monday, November 1, 2010 2:28 PM

LOL! I think the list of people I haven't 'discussed' things rather deeply is much shorter than the list I have! And I'm certainly glad that we've all been adult enough to get over it (Doog and Manny, I'm looking at YOU!). I wouldn't change my FSM status for the world, though I very nearly did over a troll a few years back. I'm equally proud to be a FSMer, as I am a LEMur. I like the raucous nature of the FSM Odds & Ends Bar, but also like the calmer quiet of the Fireside Lounge (as the LEM calls their O&E forum).

Ken, you're right, the LEM has changed as well. The world keeps turning, after all. But all in all, the changes have been slight and don't have much to do with the forum per se, but the people who take part. There hasn't been the "Change it back or I'm out of here" BS we've experienced here.

The photo-shopped pics were a hoot, and were Dwight Ta-ala's trademark, as was the LOTM (IIRC). He's been very inactive on the forum for personal/work reasons. He's missed, both here and on the LEM.

So long folks!

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, November 1, 2010 3:05 PM

the doog

 You yourself just made an apt analogy of Manny's previous behavior, and if he had applied to the LEM based on his past behavior, he would have been undoubtedly DIS-approved of in his earliest days here when his PTS from the Eastern Front had him somewhat more ornery.( Wink Manny!)

 

My FSM Forum past is harder to shake than my past during WW2 !!!

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • From: N. Georgia
Posted by Jester75 on Monday, November 1, 2010 3:12 PM

Man, I remember those days.

Eric

 

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: Nebraska, USA
Posted by CallSignOWL on Monday, November 1, 2010 3:28 PM

Sorry to but in, but could one of you kindly explain the "Change" that occurred? I guess I'm new enough that this layout is the only layout of the forum I've experienced.  And I don't really think it is all that bad as people keep saying...I get around just fine!  The only thing that ever bothered me was the pictures sometimes not resizing.

Thanks

 

OWL

------------------------

Now that I'm here, where am I??

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, November 1, 2010 3:34 PM

CallSignOWL

Sorry to but in, but could one of you kindly explain the "Change" that occurred?

We all got hot flashes and the unexplained desire to buy a convertible...

  • Member since
    March 2010
  • From: Democratic Peoples Republic of Illinois
Posted by Hercmech on Monday, November 1, 2010 3:41 PM

Manstein's revenge

 CallSignOWL:

Sorry to but in, but could one of you kindly explain the "Change" that occurred?

We all got hot flashes and the unexplained desire to buy a convertible...

Big Smile


13151015

  • Member since
    October 2008
  • From: New Jersey
Posted by oddmanrush on Monday, November 1, 2010 3:46 PM

CallSignOWL

Sorry to but in, but could one of you kindly explain the "Change" that occurred? I guess I'm new enough that this layout is the only layout of the forum I've experienced.  And I don't really think it is all that bad as people keep saying...I get around just fine!  The only thing that ever bothered me was the pictures sometimes not resizing.

Thanks

 

OWL

Really there isn't much to explain other than the Forum changed its format. A different look here, a few extra button clicks there, throw in a few glitches and a lot of people were turned off for whatever reason. I never had a problem with it though the glitches were annoying but I believe are for the most part non-existent these days. It was a big topic for a while, and has died down since, but still remains in the shadows to reveal itself in threads not unlike this one.

Jon

My Blog: The Combat Workshop 

  • Member since
    October 2008
  • From: New Jersey
Posted by oddmanrush on Monday, November 1, 2010 3:48 PM

Wait...unless you mean the 'Change' regarding Manny's avatar....but that's really a story for another time....

Jon

My Blog: The Combat Workshop 

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Left forever
Posted by Bgrigg on Monday, November 1, 2010 4:01 PM

Manstein's revenge

 

 CallSignOWL:

 

Sorry to but in, but could one of you kindly explain the "Change" that occurred?

 

We all got hot flashes and the unexplained desire to buy a convertible...

I'm STILL having those hot flashes, and so is my new convertible...

So long folks!

  • Member since
    October 2005
  • From: Maryland
Posted by usmc1371 on Monday, November 1, 2010 4:50 PM

Wow.  I mentioned three letters, "L", "E", and "M", and three pages of replies were generated.

I was a little taken back when the LEM first started.  The name really threw me.  After I researched it and joined, I realized it was just a bunch of guys who have a lot in common with me. 

I think the application process is nothing more than a way to keep trolls out.  The thinking is probably along these line: If you're a troll, you probably won't go through the application process and the wait to participate in the forum discussions. 

Is it full proof, no.  But I think the intention is understandable.

-Jesse

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, November 1, 2010 4:55 PM

usmc1371

Wow.  I mentioned three letters, "L", "E", and "M", and three pages of replies were generated.

Well, being how extraordinary you guys are and all--its understandable...

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Monday, November 1, 2010 5:01 PM

Bgrigg

 

 

But think about it this way, you're a 'fair' guitarist Big Smile who could get work at any studio

lol! "Fair", huh, Bill? You'd better be careful with such effusive praise; honestly, you're going to give me a big head, Really--I'm not worthy! lol...Confused I gotta sat though, I don't get the whole "band" analogy though; it seems to be "reaching" a bit. Maybe I'm just not insightful enough to grasp it...Propeller

Bgrigg
We just want to know if you will fit in the group....

OOPS! I knew the truth would slip out somewhere! That's kinda exactly what U was afraid I'd hear. That;s what I'm talking about when I say that something is :"exclusionary".So....say if someone was a really sincere critic, dedicated to genuinely offering hard-hitting criticism that might offend some egos--would they "fit it"? Or would they be ostracized or even banned? Would that be seen as offensive?  I'm just curious as to the latitude given to members?

Honestly, I'm sure that it's all a bunch of great guys--I just don't like the ideology behind it --- as stated by you. Tongue Tied

But I'm not going to lose sleep over it either. Smile

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Left forever
Posted by Bgrigg on Monday, November 1, 2010 6:23 PM

the doog

 

 Bgrigg:

 

 

 

But think about it this way, you're a 'fair' guitarist Big Smile who could get work at any studio

lol! "Fair", huh, Bill? You'd better be careful with such effusive praise; honestly, you're going to give me a big head, Really--I'm not worthy! lol...Confused I gotta sat though, I don't get the whole "band" analogy though; it seems to be "reaching" a bit. Maybe I'm just not insightful enough to grasp it...Propeller

 

 

 Bgrigg:
We just want to know if you will fit in the group....

 

 

OOPS! I knew the truth would slip out somewhere! That's kinda exactly what U was afraid I'd hear. That;s what I'm talking about when I say that something is :"exclusionary".So....say if someone was a really sincere critic, dedicated to genuinely offering hard-hitting criticism that might offend some egos--would they "fit it"? Or would they be ostracized or even banned? Would that be seen as offensive?  I'm just curious as to the latitude given to members?

 

Honestly, I'm sure that it's all a bunch of great guys--I just don't like the ideology behind it --- as stated by you. Tongue Tied

But I'm not going to lose sleep over it either. Smile

Sorry about the praise. I'll try to turn it down a bit... Wink

The band analogy I thought was pretty clear, so maybe my communications skillz are off. No, actually I KNOW they're off. The LEM has no ideology other than being a family friendly forum of modelers. My apologies for causing you to think that they have one. I thought that the band analogy worked pretty good, though almost all analogies "reach".

You mentioned earlier that people can be rehabilitated. Yes, people can learn from their mistakes and learn new ways to deal with people. But would you want your bank to hire a convicted bank robber? After all, he served his time, he's rehabilitated. Why not let him be in control of your money? I wouldn't invite foxes into the hen house, either. No matter how much the fox protests he's rehabilitated. Nature will out.

FSM has an open door, but many rules. Break them hard, or bend them often enough, and you can get banned for a time (koff Manny koff) or maybe life or even longer. I've seen the email that used to go out. One guy I know was banned until 2050! Some people get banned for all the right reasons, and I've seen enough of those on this site to want to never see them again. Either here or someplace else.

The LEM is a closed, but really unlocked, door. We want to make sure you're not a 'Bot wanting to spam us (been there, done that, got the T-Shirt), or a troll who only causes trouble (been there, done that, got the T-Shirt), and there is more than a few out there. As usmc1371 stated, that's what the application is for. It doesn't always work, but it must work pretty well, as there is very little drama at the LEM. There are however, a lot of laughs. There are only a few rules, and in all the time I've been there I know of only ONE circumstance where someone was punted, let back in and then punted permanently. There may have been more, but they've been under my radar. A few members (who are active here and will not be named) packed their tents and left voluntarily, one of which wanted the tent pegs filled in and his membership deleted, rather than merely left to languish. I'm pretty sure that if he re-applied, he would be welcomed, as he was a valued and respected member.

Harsh criticism solely to be harsh will probably get you punted. We've seen that before on this forum, where a member attacks another and the animosity spills over to multiple threads. The LEM would rather avoid that. Honest criticism is appreciated. There is a world of difference between:

"You #$%^ing moron, <fill in blank> are never painted that color, stupid! Any idiot knows that!"

and

"My references show that this particular color was never used for <fill in blank>. They were always painted <fill in blank>. If you are building this for a contest, you should change it, if you hope to win."

Is the LEM an atta boy club? No, it's not, but they can be offered without anyone thinking an atta boy is wrong, either. What's wrong with being supportive of someone trying their hardest, or doing their best?

Is the LEM a critical site? No, it's not, but criticism can be offered in such a way as to avoid conflict (and is), and what is wrong with that?

Do we want people to "fit in"? Yes, we do. Who wants to constantly be in a situation where there is animosity? This is my hobby, I want to enjoy it, not dread it. I'm sure Matt and Aaron want people to "fit in" here, too. Why invite trouble?

Is it perfect? No, it includes me as a member, for crying out loud! That alone makes them imperfect.

So long folks!

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, November 1, 2010 7:35 PM

Bgrigg

Aw, Manny, you DO care! Embarrassed

Well, I have spent some time with the MOST SENSITIVE MAN in the WORLD...

  • Member since
    March 2005
  • From: West Virginia, USA
Posted by mfsob on Monday, November 1, 2010 8:26 PM

One think I find richly ironic about this whole thread (for me, anyway, since I detest all the ads that clutter up the screen) is that all these posts jack up the count that FSM can use to sell more ads ...

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Virginia
Posted by Wingman_kz on Tuesday, November 2, 2010 12:11 AM

Wasn't the League of Extraordinary Modelers somehow *inspired* by the Nameless National Luminaries? The name at least? I vaguely remember when it came about but don't recall what happened here that caused it. I had pretty much moved on to automotive modeling forums by then and didn't spend too much time here.

FSM's forum didn't start till late '02 did it? You still see a few folks around with Nov or Dec '02 join dates. And I think there were quite a few people here by the time I joined. Hard to believe they could have a big enough falling out by '04 to take off and start a new forum. But then, it didn't take long at Scale Auto for there to be a large scale disagreement. lol

I've been on forums where if you used a nickname you were looked down upon. You were nobody and nothing. Another where you absolutely had to include your real name(and it was displayed at the bottom of every post) or you weren't allowed to join but it was ok to go by a nickname. And then there's the ones that include your IP address in every post. The way things are going around here now I really wish FSM would do that. Then, if you took the time to look around a bit, you may actually have some idea of who you're talking to...

Tony

            

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 2, 2010 6:38 AM

Wingman_kz

I've been on forums where if you used a nickname you were looked down upon. Another where you absolutely had to include your real name(and it was displayed at the bottom of every post) or you weren't allowed to join but it was ok to go by a nickname. The way things are going around here now I really wish FSM would do that. Then, if you took the time to look around a bit, you may actually have some idea of who you're talking to...

Why don't you start by setting the example, Mr. Skull and Crossbones Wingman?

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Rothesay, NB Canada
Posted by VanceCrozier on Tuesday, November 2, 2010 6:42 AM

I'm fine with Tony's skull & crossbones, that's how I first realized he was a pirate!! Pirate

On the bench: Airfix 1/72 Wildcat; Airfix 1/72 Vampire T11; Airfix 1/72 Fouga Magister

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Hancock, Me USA
Posted by p38jl on Tuesday, November 2, 2010 8:31 AM

Yarrggh!!!

 

ohh.. a doubloon...!! ------------------- > @

[Photobucket]

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Tuesday, November 2, 2010 8:42 AM

I've never joined to the club that wouldn't take me as I remember...

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Tuesday, November 2, 2010 8:52 AM

But would you want your bank to hire a convicted bank robber?

Dunno... I mean, it might work, in that, since he was convicted, it's obvious that he ain't very good at it...

 

And then there's the ones that include your IP address in every post.

Although you can't see it, rest assured that the forum admins can...  I admin on military site and I got every IP addy from every member at the nearest mouse-click...   Someone with some savy can can ghost their IPs, sure, and hitchhike on others, ot use dynamic IPs, but those are few and far between.. We just issue a "shoot on sight" order for those Chuckleheads...  One guy persisted too much though, and we eventauly tracked one of his IPs to his work computer, which belonged to the state... Once it was confirmed that it was actually him and not some poor working stiff getting hijacked,  he ended up out of a job for trolling... Of course, that's an extreme example.. 

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Left forever
Posted by Bgrigg on Tuesday, November 2, 2010 9:00 AM

Hans von Hammer

 

But would you want your bank to hire a convicted bank robber?

 

Dunno... I mean, it might work, in that, since he was convicted, it's obvious that he ain't very good at it...

But what if it means he "tries, tries again"?

So long folks!

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Tuesday, November 2, 2010 9:04 AM

Bgrigg

 Hans von Hammer:

 

But would you want your bank to hire a convicted bank robber?

 

Dunno... I mean, it might work, in that, since he was convicted, it's obvious that he ain't very good at it...

 

But what if it means he "tries, tries again"?

Should be much easier to convict then... Probably wouldn't even go to trial... Toast

  • Member since
    October 2005
  • From: Maryland
Posted by usmc1371 on Tuesday, November 2, 2010 4:21 PM

Or, if you steal hundreds of thousands of dollars from banks, you might be hired later and make tons of money stopping others from doing that. 

Wait!  Wasn't there a movie about that?

Oh yeah, Catch Me If You Can.

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Virginia
Posted by Wingman_kz on Wednesday, November 3, 2010 12:10 AM

Manny, I've never done anything to you so why do you persist in trying to provoke me?  I have nothing to say to you and will not be drawn into an arguement with you so leave me alone.

Yes Hans, I know how it works, and it's a shame the admins here don't police them like the forum you mentioned. But then, they can't even keep banned members banned can they? So why would they bother with comparing IP's? Far as I'm concerned they could use some help. Maybe your kind of help...

Tony

            

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Piscataway, NJ!
Posted by wing_nut on Wednesday, November 3, 2010 7:17 AM

Manstein's revenge

The ones who matter are still here...

sniff, sniff...   I LOVE YOU MAN!

WOW the was a lot of reading.Like doog said, this is my home.  For all I know it may be because it is the 1st one I signed up for when I got back in the hobby 5 years ago and remembered the name "FineScale Modeler."

I was asked to join LEM, which I did, but have not been there for ages.  I frequent other forums, more often than not lurking.  But when i need to do some serious posting, I come home.  Nothing to do with cliques.  Nothing to do with the arguments that arise.  Heck, I don't even get involved in them.  Bet nobody here remembers me in one of the blow ups.  I am too busy helping someone with their sludge wash problem to be bothered. Most times I miss them entirely and end up wondering what happened, who was involved and why are they not here anymore.  It was usually manny that was not around but those exits were short lived and we are just used to them nowWink  still llovya dudeStick out tongue

I know I started one of these"where did they go" threads too not long ago. But as someone said, there are too many reasons NOT to post here or anywhere else for that matter.  Life happens.  We have loads of new names here. Some with developing skills and some with advanced skills.  We should make 'em feel welcome so they stick around.  I would like to think I have things rumbling around in between the dead brain cells in my noggin that can help someone.  and there is a ton I can learn from new guys like Jose Lopez.  And I am still learning for all you guys too.

So what I am really trying to say is...

Kum bay ya, my Lord, kum bay ya...

Someone's modeling Lord, Kum bay ya...

Marc  

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Rothesay, NB Canada
Posted by VanceCrozier on Wednesday, November 3, 2010 7:23 AM

wing_nut

 

...We have loads of new names here. Some with developing skills and some with advanced skills.  We should make 'em feel welcome so they stick around...

You're right wing_nut, there must have been 7 or 8 "new to the forums" posts this week. And those are just the ones who announce themselves, there could be more who are just "lurking", checking us out & looking for WIPs or tips.

On the bench: Airfix 1/72 Wildcat; Airfix 1/72 Vampire T11; Airfix 1/72 Fouga Magister

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, November 3, 2010 7:32 AM

Wingman_kz

Manny, I've never done anything to you so why do you persist in trying to provoke me?  I have nothing to say to you and will not be drawn into an arguement with you so leave me alone.

Persist?  I don't remember ever replying to any of your posts in the past...believe me, I'm not targeting you for an arguement; I'm an equal opportunity a$$hole...

I just thought it was interesting of you to suggest that FSM should require us to all use our real names, pics and IP addys in here when you do none of the above---you don't think that is a tad hypocritical?

 

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