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My Rant To The Powers That Be...

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  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Monday, June 6, 2011 1:13 PM

zokissima

But I see no correlation between the mag and the freely available forum.

WOW really?

Hmm....well think of it this way--last I knew, Aaron Skiner was not only an associate editor of the magazine but also a moderator of the forums. I don't think that he does the latter for free?

What do you think pays his salary, in part?

  • Member since
    October 2008
  • From: New Jersey
Posted by oddmanrush on Monday, June 6, 2011 1:26 PM

Karl, thanks for answering the question. I didn't see the 'regrettable comment' but I hope you know I wasn't implying anything beyond simply asking a question.

I still don't feel that there is an obligation to do so...I don't feel that the magazine and the forum here are intrinsically connected, they are essentially two separate products. One being free, the other, not. This isn't to say I don't believe in compensation, or donations, or contributing based on your own free will because I certainly do. But to say that I should give back or contribute to every entity from which I derive benefit or enjoyment is a bit much, at least for me.

There is a sense of entitlement in this world yes, but I don't think using this forum falls under that characteristic. This is an open forum with no financial expectation upon its members...we aren't entitled  to anything here because we aren't paying members, but on the other hand, we aren't expected to do anything either, except keep it civil. Yet every one benefits. FSM benefits, as I explained before, from profits earned through advertising, which wouldn't be here if we were not here. And clearly, we benefit from the pleasant exchange of thoughts, ideas, and creations of talented modelers not unlike yourself.

Imagine if there was always some financial obligation required for everything you benefit from on the web....Photobucket, Flickr, Facebook, Youtube, GIMP, Windows Messenger, Internet Explorer or Firefox. I would never go online ever again. The reason I never got Xbox Live for my Xbox360 was because I would have had to pay a yearly fee of around $50...I got a Playstation 3 instead because there is no charge for online service. Free beats fee any day. For Xbox, you're paying out $300-400 for the console, or more, plus $60 per game. Not worth it.

I believe "You do for me, I do for you" is a good standard to live by, but its a really really really good thing not all vendors live by that motto....

Jon

My Blog: The Combat Workshop 

  • Member since
    October 2008
  • From: New Jersey
Posted by oddmanrush on Monday, June 6, 2011 1:34 PM

the doog

 

I don't think that he does the latter for free?

What do you think pays his salary, in part?

He just might. I know several moderators on forums that do not get paid anything to perform their jobs. Keep in mind, the magazine came WELL before this forum ever existed. Being a moderator to this site may be part of the job description now rather than a separate title and not necessarily related to any decrease or increase in pay. All depends on the expectations of FSM. I've had jobs where my income does not increase relative to the increase of my responsibility, which sucks, but that's the way it is. Of course, what other people make isn't really any of my business.

Jon

My Blog: The Combat Workshop 

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Monday, June 6, 2011 2:21 PM

oddmanrush

Karl, thanks for answering the question. I didn't see the 'regrettable comment' but I hope you know I wasn't implying anything beyond simply asking a question.

 

oddman nah, it wasn't yours, And I don't mind the question really. To be honest I'd have to be naive to believe that some people wouldn't think that it's my relationship with FSM that compels my responses on this issue. It's a fair question, and I should have expected it.

  • Member since
    May 2008
  • From: Wherever the hunt takes me
Posted by Boba Fett on Monday, June 6, 2011 2:49 PM

bbrowniii

 

 Boba Fett:

 

 

 

 

Tongue Tied... Ummmmm, it doesn't cost a dime to look at 'em. However, I suspect that FSM expects the advertisers to pay for their space on this forum, just like in the magazine or anywhere else. It doesn't cost you anything to read that bright shiny billboard on the side of the road as you go to work in the morning. Doesn't mean it didn't cost something to put it up there...

 

 

 

Agreed. But how does that fit in? The viewer is merely looking at those for free. It's his choice whether he wants to click on it or go buy the advertised product. So... unless I'm misreading your original post there?

 

 

It is quite possible that we are both misreading each other. No worries. Geeked

Understood. Wink

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Ontario, Canada
Posted by Bockscar on Monday, June 6, 2011 8:51 PM

Funny thing.....commercials always annoyed me.....until I realized the concept of earning.....that was even more annoying actually paying your own way.....but I just petitioned all the places of learning, where ever it, or 'they' may occur, up here to have all annoying pop-up FSM advertising removed from the websites, hallways, and classrooms...phew...that stuff grows like dandelions.....little kids inhaling toxic fumes and all.....lol......everything on the internet should be freeee.......in fact everything should be freeeee.......Weeeeeee..........What a great world it can Beeeeeeee..........never pay.....Freeeeee......Reeeeeeleeeeeeee, For Ever, Freeeeee............

The way it should be.

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: 41 Degrees 52.4 minutes North; 72 Degrees 7.3 minutes West
Posted by bbrowniii on Monday, June 6, 2011 8:57 PM

the doog

What do you think pays his salary, in part?

Advertising...

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing' - Edmund Burke (1770 ??)

 

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Tuesday, June 7, 2011 11:32 AM

I too see that mag dropping in quality in some areas, improving in others... For instance, the FSM of the 80s and early 90s was definately on "Fine" side of fine-scale modeling..  The were many more articles about scratch-buliding, fabricating, kit-bashing, even vacu-forming and photo-etching your detail/replacement parts... 

Not much of that anymore though, since it seems that majority of modelers that came into the hobby in the last 10-15 years rely pretty much on after-market stuff, which simply wasn't around "back in the day", or was so cost-prohibitive as to make some modelers learn how to become Gizmologists, if they wanted to compete...

Many  conversion-sets cost three or four times what any kit cost (and you still had to buy the base-kit)... Resin figures were practically unheard of, white metal dominated the scene, and at around fourteen-twenty dollars per (like resin Verlinden 2-figure vignettes in 1980-something dollars), a diorama builder learned to use Tamiya and Monogram figures and convert them...   However, I digress...

FSM nowadays is, more often that not, about how much stuff you can purchase and put into an already over-priced kit...  I was really disappointed in several past articles that claimed, on the cover, to be covering some good "How To" stuff on a certain type of model, then actually reading it only to discover that the author simply bought a bunch of resin parts and glued them on.. Well, IMNSHO, that's a lot of garbage, and is little more than an a free advertisement for a conversion-parts maker...

 Back in the early days, and through the early 90's most of the photography was B&W, except for the feature articles and Reader Gallery.The kit reviews were shorter, but didn't have a huge color photo, just a small B&W one of the finished kit...  There were far more research articles, on camouflage schemes, scratch-building, scale drawings and what-not, that were geared towards the guy that wanted more than a fine-looking SOB kit...

Nowadays, the reviews are rather long-winded advertisements, and there're NEVER any bad kits...  Hence, they're of little use to anyone who's gotten more than a hundred or so kits behind them.. Frankly, I'm in the "2000 Club" (meaning I've built at least that many models, in various genres, over the last 45 years) and there's litte about any kit that a reviewer could tell me that's of any use, other than the scale and price...

I would like to see Finescale Modeler put the "Fine" back into the articles, and stop making it a rag for beginners... Scale Modeler, Military Modeler, and Auto Modeler filled that gap quite nicely... However,  Scale Modeler , et al, bit the dust back in the mid-nineties, so FSM has indeed picked up that part of the readership, and it's a good idea, from a business POV...

That said, the subcriber is able to go back into back-issues from time-to-time, and download articles for free that interest them, which is a pretty handy feature if you lost the original issue(s)... I know I've lost a couple dozen, at least, due to various moves and such... Not a problem anymore...

Also, you MAY find a lot of "Subcriber Only" content to be handy at times... And you may not.. But a benefit is only a benefit if one actually USES it... Kinda like the Army giving you $10,000 for school, but you have no intentions of ever GOING to school... They'd best have another selling point...

In order for FSM to survive as a useful modeler's tool though, it needs articles from it's subscribers... Karl ain't getting published because he's on the payroll, he's getting published because he writes the article and SENDS IT IN...

Oh yeah, and he's good too...Wink

I've read many "Letters to the the Editor" that complain of "not enough of" this or that genre of model articles, and the answer is always the same... "If someone writes a good one and sends it in, we'll publish it"... So we modeler/subscribers, as a group, are at least partially responsible for the mag's content... 

I don't know if FSM restricts it's article submissions to subcribers or not, but it would make sense if they didn't require it... At the front of the mag, in the "How to Submit Your Article" area, it mentions nothing about "Subscribers Only", anyway.. Same thing for the "Reader Gallery", and "Reader Tips"... In fact, I know they send you a copy of FSM if your tip gets published (and a nice little check that covers about 2/3rds of your sub for a year, or in my case, buys a one or two Monogram kitsWink)

Anyway, the bottom line is, as I see it, FSM is just one more tool in the toolbag for the modeler... You don't use every tool you have for every job, but when you need it, it's nice to have it right there...

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Ontario, Canada
Posted by Bockscar on Tuesday, June 7, 2011 4:59 PM

HVH:

You should submit that as an article.

 

 

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Tuesday, June 7, 2011 11:22 PM

I fear that my status as the "curmudgeonly but lovable" Monogram Nazi (MonoNazi) would be endangered... Toast

Seriously though, I'd submit articles were I so inclined, but my kit choices are and the techniques I use of the "Old School" type, and I don't think that the general readership is all that interested in going "backwards in time", lol..   But, many of the techniques I use are quite satisfactory and easy to do, rather than the current trend of "re-inventing the wheel", and the materials I use are available without a trip to the hobby shop or on-line store... Many are as close as the junk-drawer, garage, and dumpster... The rest is at the grocery, hardware, and auto parts stores, and craft stores sell paints that will match "model" colors, and cost about 1/3rd the price for three times the quantity... 

FSM's advertisers wouldn't like me much... I'm just sayin'...  I'd hate to lose a mag that I still find a useful tool...  

On the other hand, I have this dream (admittedly a pipe-dream) of all the kit manufacturers dropping into a dark chasm, forever entombed, and Monogram/Revell, HAWK, and Lindberg, like the Phoenix, rising from the ashes with a plethora of new 1/48 and 1/32 scale aircraft kits, all priced between 12.00 and 20.00 for the 1/48th and 20.00-30.00 for the 1/32... AND, that Revell discovers a spare set of the J2M3 Jack, Ki-61-I Tony, and the N1K1-J George molds in some storeroom floods the market with new copies of 'em for around 25.00 per... Just to slam-dunk the collectors' prices one has to pay for them these days right in the toilet... That'd learn 'em to quit hoarding the kits...  Man, If I had those three kits again and the TamigawaDragonTrumps had a feather up their collective azzes, we'd both be tickled...

Still, I managed to grab a Monogram Fw-190A "White box" (that means Hakenkreuz on the box photo and decal sheet) along with a Ju 87G-1, and Hurricane... Got the Fw for 3.31, the Hurri for 7.00, and the Ju 87 for 10.00.. Total with shipping- 30.95...  Makes six classic Monograms in the last three weeks, the three mentioned, plus a P-51B, A6M5 Zeke, and the Me 109E... Scored those last three from a single seller too.. 25.00 and 10.50 shipping...  I fat with Monogram kits for a spell...

Maybe I'll write them articles anyway, lol... "How to Build and Super-detail a Model for the Price of the Kit-Part One" maybe? "Detailing the Monogram Stuka for a Dollar"? Zero Kit, Zero Money for After-market"?

 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Illinois: Hive of Scum and Villany
Posted by Sprue-ce Goose on Tuesday, June 7, 2011 11:45 PM

Too late for the "curmudgeonly but lovable" Monogram Nazi to submit his posts as an article.

Folks read it for free.

BTW...very good posts!

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Wednesday, June 8, 2011 12:06 AM

Read the re-write... Wink

I gotta quit editing the posts and just write a reply to myself instead, lol...

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Illinois: Hive of Scum and Villany
Posted by Sprue-ce Goose on Wednesday, June 8, 2011 12:16 AM

Hans von Hammer

Read the re-write... Wink

I gotta quit editing the posts and just write a reply to myself instead, lol...

Good re-write!

Whatever happened to the 1/32 Revell Japanese aircraft kits?

 

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Wednesday, June 8, 2011 12:21 AM

Here's what I read about them... Take it FWIW..

"A legend in model aircraft lore is the story of George, Jack and Tony Revell, a trio of 1/32 Imperial Japanese fighters: Jack, the Mitsubishi J2M3 Raiden (Thunderbolt),  Tony, the Kawasaki Ki-61-I Kai Hein (Swallow) and George, the Kawanishi N1K1-J Shiden (Violet Lightning)...

Revell created and released these for the Japanese market via their Revell-Japan subsidiary in the early 1970's. After several production runs the trio's molds were shipped ( by ship ) to another Revell subsidiary. The ship sank, the molds lost at sea! We can only hope they are enjoying Model Valhalla with the Aurora molds bought by Monogram and destroyed in a train wreck."

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Wednesday, June 8, 2011 12:25 AM

Maybe someone from Dragon'll see this Jack's instruction sheet and say, "Ah HAA!!! I GET it now!"

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Illinois: Hive of Scum and Villany
Posted by Sprue-ce Goose on Wednesday, June 8, 2011 12:26 AM

Hans von Hammer

Here's what I read about them... Take it FWIW..

"A legend in model aircraft lore is the story of George, Jack and Tony Revell, a trio of 1/32 Imperial Japanese fighters: Jack, the Mitsubishi J2M3 Raiden (Thunderbolt),  Tony, the Kawasaki Ki-61-I Kai Hein (Swallow) and George, the Kawanishi N1K1-J Shiden (Violet Lightning)...

Revell created and released these for the Japanese market via their Revell-Japan subsidiary in the early 1970's. After several production runs the trio's molds were shipped ( by ship ) to another Revell subsidiary. The ship sank, the molds lost at sea! We can only hope they are enjoying Model Valhalla with the Aurora molds bought by Monogram and destroyed in a train wreck."

Well, the Rommel's Rod miraculously re-appeared via new molds....

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, June 8, 2011 12:34 AM

Hans von Hammer

Maybe someone from Dragon'll see this Jack's instruction sheet and say, "Ah HAA!!! I GET it now!"

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/HansvonHammer/Drawings/revell_j2m3-jack_32-inst.jpg

Chuckle...

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Wednesday, June 8, 2011 12:42 AM

Well, the Rommel's Rod miraculously re-appeared via new molds....

,

Yeah maybe.. But that was a Monogram kit...

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Illinois: Hive of Scum and Villany
Posted by Sprue-ce Goose on Wednesday, June 8, 2011 8:30 AM

Hans von Hammer

 

 

Well, the Rommel's Rod miraculously re-appeared via new molds....

,

 

Yeah maybe.. But that was a Monogram kit...

Are Monogram kit re-births more likely than Revell?

Might have just been re-tooled due to kit size and a larger potential buyer base.

Yet, Revellogram re-issues do seem to follow either kit announcements by rival companies or high collector prices on e-bay.

  • Member since
    March 2006
  • From: Right Side of a Left State
Posted by Shellback on Wednesday, June 8, 2011 12:11 PM

I'd like to see those old 1/32 Revell kits re-issued , not much for accuracy except for the basic shape but fun for old times sake to have around .

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Ontario, Canada
Posted by Bockscar on Wednesday, June 8, 2011 4:31 PM

Hans von Hammer

I fear that my status as the "curmudgeonly but lovable" Monogram Nazi (MonoNazi) would be endangered... Toast

Seriously though, I'd submit articles were I so inclined, but my kit choices are and the techniques I use of the "Old School" type, and I don't think that the general readership is all that interested in going "backwards in time", lol..   But, many of the techniques I use are quite satisfactory and easy to do, rather than the current trend of "re-inventing the wheel", and the materials I use are available without a trip to the hobby shop or on-line store... Many are as close as the junk-drawer, garage, and dumpster... The rest is at the grocery, hardware, and auto parts stores, and craft stores sell paints that will match "model" colors, and cost about 1/3rd the price for three times the quantity... 

FSM's advertisers wouldn't like me much... I'm just sayin'...  I'd hate to lose a mag that I still find a useful tool...  

On the other hand, I have this dream (admittedly a pipe-dream) of all the kit manufacturers dropping into a dark chasm, forever entombed, and Monogram/Revell, HAWK, and Lindberg, like the Phoenix, rising from the ashes with a plethora of new 1/48 and 1/32 scale aircraft kits, all priced between 12.00 and 20.00 for the 1/48th and 20.00-30.00 for the 1/32... AND, that Revell discovers a spare set of the J2M3 Jack, Ki-61-I Tony, and the N1K1-J George molds in some storeroom floods the market with new copies of 'em for around 25.00 per... Just to slam-dunk the collectors' prices one has to pay for them these days right in the toilet... That'd learn 'em to quit hoarding the kits...  Man, If I had those three kits again and the TamigawaDragonTrumps had a feather up their collective azzes, we'd both be tickled...

Still, I managed to grab a Monogram Fw-190A "White box" (that means Hakenkreuz on the box photo and decal sheet) along with a Ju 87G-1, and Hurricane... Got the Fw for 3.31, the Hurri for 7.00, and the Ju 87 for 10.00.. Total with shipping- 30.95...  Makes six classic Monograms in the last three weeks, the three mentioned, plus a P-51B, A6M5 Zeke, and the Me 109E... Scored those last three from a single seller too.. 25.00 and 10.50 shipping...  I fat with Monogram kits for a spell...

Maybe I'll write them articles anyway, lol... "How to Build and Super-detail a Model for the Price of the Kit-Part One" maybe? "Detailing the Monogram Stuka for a Dollar"? Zero Kit, Zero Money for After-market"?

 

HVH;

I've got alot of kits, but my faves are the 2 Lindeberg F-90's, and Aurora Thunderceptors (so much aluminum in the plastic, it doesn't need painting), and lots of Mongram stuff from the days when you could build a model after dinner....cost you a week or two's salary....lol....but I'ld rather scratch even if I buy the AM stuff.

I think you've got an idea, a real point, well, at least one i resonate with, to make it accessible again to youngsters and not just noobs trying to break into a mature and hi-end market. I'll throw in a kit to that result, for sure....

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Ontario, Canada
Posted by Bockscar on Friday, June 10, 2011 8:26 AM

Hmmmm....all those years ranting about airplanes and building kits paid off....my niece is going into aeronautical engineering....maybe just enough time for one more kit before classes begin in the fall....Big Smile

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Hancock, Me USA
Posted by p38jl on Friday, June 10, 2011 9:37 AM

Good posts people... Smile

[Photobucket]

  • Member since
    March 2006
  • From: Right Side of a Left State
Posted by Shellback on Friday, June 10, 2011 11:39 AM

My son never took up building aircraft models even though i built a couple with him he never got hooked on the hobby , but he did join the airfoerce and now has 18 yrs in ! He gets to work around the real thing while i'm still just putting the plastic ones together ................Hmm hmmmmm

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Ontario, Canada
Posted by Bockscar on Friday, June 10, 2011 3:46 PM

Shellback

My son never took up building aircraft models even though i built a couple with him he never got hooked on the hobby , but he did join the airfoerce and now has 18 yrs in ! He gets to work around the real thing while i'm still just putting the plastic ones together ................Hmm hmmmmm

Well, model building did 'encourage' my niece to love airplanes, and we have mentioned the services, Whistling. Many who've served have taken up the practice, so to speak....you're doing something right, alright.....Yes

  • Member since
    March 2006
  • From: Right Side of a Left State
Posted by Shellback on Friday, June 10, 2011 8:36 PM

Bockscar

 Shellback:

My son never took up building aircraft models even though i built a couple with him he never got hooked on the hobby , but he did join the airfoerce and now has 18 yrs in ! He gets to work around the real thing while i'm still just putting the plastic ones together ................Hmm hmmmmm

 

Well, model building did 'encourage' my niece to love airplanes, and we have mentioned the services, Whistling. Many who've served have taken up the practice, so to speak....you're doing something right, alright.....Yes

Thanks , maybe the model building in the blood will jump a generation and show up in my grandaughter ....but she's really into all of that girly stuff right now .................

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Monday, June 13, 2011 11:00 PM

Shellback

... 1/32 Revell kits .... , not much for accuracy except for the basic shape...

I wouldn't say they "weren't much for accuracy", at least not the ones I've built (I missed out on the Tony and George, but got the rest, several of them I've built several times, and I still have a few in the stash).. I'd give them a solid 7.5 on a scale of 0-10, which is "Above Average"  for any manufacturer...

The basic problem with them now is their being a bit heavy with rivet detail.. In Revell's defense, that's what modelers of the day were clamoring for, saying they were more accurate with 'em, and Revell listened... Now modelers complain about it..   Same thing happens now... Modelers scream for recessed panel lines, and the manufacturers gave 'em to us, regardless of their being accurate or not (although it DID succeed in adding considerably to the expense of the kit)...    

 

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Illinois: Hive of Scum and Villany
Posted by Sprue-ce Goose on Monday, June 13, 2011 11:09 PM

[quote user="Hans von Hammer"]

 

Shellback:

 

... 1/32 Revell kits .... , not much for accuracy except for the basic shape...

 

 

I wouldn't say they "weren't much for accuracy", at least not the ones I've built (I missed out on the Tony and George, but got the rest, several of them I've built several times, and I still have a few in the stash).. I'd give them a solid 7.5 on a scale of 0-10, which is "Above Average"  for any manufacturer...

/quote]

...was just sifting thru my FSM collection: 1988 to 1995.

Two articles on super detailing or  converting Revell 1/32 Bf-110 commented favorably  on the generally accurate outline, though acknowledged their age meant a less detailed interior than available on newer kits.

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Carmel, CA
Posted by bondoman on Tuesday, June 14, 2011 12:36 AM

The Revell 1/32 aircraft kits are beyond criticism. At the time there were no other kits in that scale of those subjects, on the market. I built them all except for the "George" which I do not even remember.

Because they had to cater to market pressure to have movable features, there were certain compromises in detail. The Corsair is a case.

The 262 was not so good either, but I built three Spitfires and two Hurricanes, a Wildcat, a Tony, two Corsairs, at least two -38s and so forth.

Funny thing- it was all about the box art.

As for that Rommels Rod, the repop is just fine.

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Illinois: Hive of Scum and Villany
Posted by Sprue-ce Goose on Tuesday, June 14, 2011 12:41 AM

I appreciate the re-pop Rommel's Rod better this time 'round.

Makes a nice base for customizingBig Smile

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