To the Editor.....and Clayton Ronso. Subj.: Tough Competition

Wabashwheels

 To call application of photoetch parts "lazy" is an ignorance of photoetch.  I just built a throttle quadrant in 3D from a flat piece of metal.  After all the bending, fitting and placing those tiny handles, I take offense to someone calling that lazy. 

I agree with your entire post, but particularly with this statement. Different materials require different skills.

   I have been a modeler for years(airplanes and figures), but i only model for my own enjoyment.  I fill seams,paint details that won't be seen, and try to put a good finish on them.  I don't build for contests but i LOVE going to them.  The talent on display is terrific ,and I enjoy talking to other modelers.  The odds say they exist but I haven't met an unfriendly modeler to date.  Anyway,  last year I entered a stock figure that I had worked hard on and wanted to display.  I had no expectations so I was thrilled when it placed.  Better still, one of the judges took time out of his busy day to talk about my figure and give me some pointers to get better.  This forum is full of amazing modelers,but I do believe with hard work I can sometimes make a small dent at contests.  I will continue to go to contests to admire the work of others, and hope I'm  not considered lazy for doing so.

Well, I fall into the other half of the population.  I build for the pleasure of the hobby.  I enjoy the the banter and discussion about tips and suggestions to build better.   The usual quest for oneupmanship can be annoying but must be expected with a large group.    I do enjoy going to shows/contests, but have never felt the need to get into the thick of competition.  After listening to this thread's stories about folks getting their shorts all in a wad over skills, both modeling and judging, I think I'll stick to recreational building.  Don't misjudge me.  I'm a highly competitive person.  I would not do well with "judges" of different abilities and mindsets playing God with my work.  I'll stick with my wife telling me that "It's beautiful".  And of course sharing photographs with you folks.  That seems to be enough to make me happy.

Oh, by the way, I like to scratchbuild and use aftermarket parts (you'd be amazed at the great deals you can get on ebay and Squadron).  There is a skill for both.  To call application of photoetch parts "lazy" is an ignorance of photoetch.  I just built a throttle quadrant in 3D from a flat piece of metal.  After all the bending, fitting and placing those tiny handles, I take offense to someone calling that lazy.  So we all build with different skills, different philosophies, different motivations, and different results.  But let's all build for the joy and satisfaction.  We are all at different places in the hobby.  When we are on these forums, we are all closer together.  That is a large part of the joy and satisfaction.

Hans von Hammer

BTW, while the figure was AWESOME, it didn't place at all with me (I was the sole judge for Dioramas..)... The modeler didn't do anything to the edges and sides of the base, just left it unfinished and unsanded.... Plus, the tank musta been parked for days, since there were no tracks, and I could see the gray celluclay in spots... There was absolutely NO story, either... Just a lone tank, some bushes, and me lookin' at it...

I think when being critical of judge's bias, this illustrates the potential for a problem. The 'sole judge' issue. All the judging I have done (both at AMPS and IPMS shows) has been done by a team of judges (either three or fofur). I've found that this tends to minimize the impact of one individual's biases. So you might have that judge that is starry-eyed over the PE zippers on Fritz's pants, but judge number 2 actually notices that the weathering is inconsistent and the road wheels are floating.

Obviously, the writer of the letter didn't specify how judging was done at these shows he was critical of, but in my experience with team judging I don't see the issues that he believes exist. Judging may not be perfect (I've walked out of a show feeling hosed before), but I disagree that $$ = medals. When I judge a model, my basic mindset is, "based on the materials utilized, how good of a job did the modeler do?" I definately do not, nor do I think my other judges do, sit there and say, "Gee, all this plastic stuff would have been better off done in PE, so lets knock off a few points."

Well, I was beat out of a gold by a box stock airliner last September.  And I have seen a lot of very nice virtually box stock winners in other categories.  Now, one has to start with a good kit, but there are some really fine kits available today that are potential winners.  No, you can't start with most Lindberg or Glencoe kits or something like that.

But start with a top notch kit and do your fundamentals (filling seems and pin marks) well and put a good finish on and you will be in contention.

Heh... You happen to have a pic of the winner, Fermis?

Maybe the writer just doesn't "measure up", or thinks he can't "measure up", to what's on the table?????

I've run across that a time or two... That can get discouraging for a new-comer, and it pizzes me off that some judges feel that it's a shoe-in when someone builds outta their wallets rather than their skills...

Some other judges were "ooh-ing and ahh-ing" a small German tank "dio" (can't remember what one, a Fuchs I think) and their focus was on the PE shoulder-marks and collar-tabs of the TC, and all the PE work that was done with fenders and stowage, tool-clips ,rather than the diorama and all its parts...  (Even made an air-recognition flag himself.. He shoulda sprung for a Hakenkreuze decal, insteada, rather poorly, hand-painting it.. Maybe he was broke after buying all that PE.. *shrug*)

BTW, while the figure was AWESOME, it didn't place at all with me (I was the sole judge for Dioramas..)... The modeler didn't do anything to the edges and sides of the base, just left it unfinished and unsanded.... Plus, the tank musta been parked for days, since there were no tracks, and I could see the gray celluclay in spots... There was absolutely NO story, either... Just a lone tank, some bushes, and me lookin' at it...

If he'd added a roadsign, a map for the TC, and maybe posed the TC OFF the tank, near a shot-up, crooked roadsign, looking at the map while pointing one way, while his driver pointed the other, he'd have had something there...

He shoulda have placed it in the Armor category instead of Dioramas...   

Anyway, my advice for the writer would be to enter only the "Out Of Box" category for a while... Then the pressure's off the wallet for AM parts and surgery, and basic skills will have to suffice... I know how he feels though.. I used to think, "Wow! He spent a lot of time building that model" but now it's mostly, "Wow... He spent a lot money  building that model..."...

Maybe the writer just doesn't "measure up", or thinks he can't "measure up", to what's on the table?????

 I know there are some who do believe that a kit with ALL the bells and whistles should be a shoe in over any OOB build or scratchwork sitting on the table. I witnessed an argument last year at a show. This guy was PISSED!!!! Practically yelling at one of the judges, because his Tamiya whatever it was had aftermarket EVERYTHING, and he didn't place, and the 1st place aircraft had no A/M. The judge quietly said, your work is kinda sloppy, whoever built this one here (winner), scratchbuilt the interior and scribed it AND did a damn good job. That was not my first win without any A/M, I've had enough to know that basic skills wins awards, not money!

ajlafleche

I'm not buying it.

Tons of aftermarket doesn't win at contests...basics do.

The first cut judges make at the contest table eliminates (or at least reduces the likelihood of a podium finish) models based on poorly applied decals (silvered or not sealed), bad paint (drifting from boot to pants, neck to collar, brush marks, excessive amounts or orange peel), unfilled seams, uncleaned mold and pin ejector marks, alignment, floating wheels, tracks with gaps, finger prints, glue marks, etc.

...talent simply shows.

 

You should have been at the contest I attended last year.  The planes with the paint on the "glass" part of the canopies, silvered decals, orange peel paint, unbelievable scratches on NMF planes and unfilled seams were the ones that WON!  Talent definitely shows but it doesn't necessarily win.

I'd also like to echo the Doog's sentiment.  I think Clayton wasn't so much stating a fact as he was expressing his frustration and belief that it's the pocketbook that wins contests more than ability.

Eric

I'm beginning to wonder if he meant "Out of Box" in the first place, since there are no after-market parts allowed in OOB categories anyway.. I dug through my junk and found this set of rules for the OOB criteria:

1) Use any commercially available kit.
2) Finish is open to all methods, i.e. airbrush, spray can, hand painting or natural plastic.
3) CONSTRUCTION:YOU MAY-

a: fill seams and gaps.
b: sand off rivets.
c: drill guns and exhausts.
d: thin down trailing edges, flaps, fenders, hatch covers and doors, if desired.
e: hand paint instrument panels and consoles in lieu of decals.
f: rescribe panel lines, if desired.

YOU MAY NOT-

1: vacuform, manufacture or replace kit parts with ones not supplied in the kit.
2: cut or separate canopies, control surfaces, hatches or doors. No surgery
allowed!
3: add anything to cockpit or interior unless specified in instructions. Only kit
supplied seat belts and shoulder harness may be used.
4: apply rigging, masts or antennas to the model unless depicted in instructions or
box art.

 Instruction sheet must be displayed with the Out-of-Box entry.

Now some may use the above to point out that the high-end kits are better than the old ones are, for many of the above reasons, especially when it comes to things like cockpit and turret interiors... BUT!

The problem many have with entering say, a 1/48 Tamiya P-51D vs. a 1/48 Monogram P-51D is that the Tamiya kit has more parts with more details... Well, whenever you have more greeblies, it's just that many more opportunties for something to go wrong...  However, the Monogram kit, being simpler, has fewer chances of an item being overlooked, therefore it may win over that "contest quality" kit... 

More parts doesn't make it "more better"... Just "more expensive" and "more work"...

Brush-marks on the cockpit floor and seat of that Tamiya A6M5 Zeke just might knock it out of the running with that flawless Monogram A6M5 Zeke model over there that doesn't even HAVE a cockpit floor, much less a seat (or even an open canopy)....

The part that bothered me about the letter was the line "No longer can the casual hobbyist compete with the professional perfectionist'. I do not consider contest modeling a 'casual' past time. Contests by definition are intended to recognize achievement, and should be a place for rewarding the best of the best, not any old thrown together piece of junk. If contest modeling is your thing, you need to settle for out of the box categories, or step up your game. And this is coming from someone who himself is a very 'casual' modeler, with 0 interest in competitions. 

I've been fortunate to win a fair share of awards at contests. I have not entered any in years.

I still do like to observe contest entries, but I build for the fun of it. I am too old to worry about all the aspects of the shows.

I do use aftermarket items occasionally,,, but I agree with the general consensus (here) that it is your talent that sets your builds apart.

First and foremost,,,,   Have Fun with the HOBBY.

I just read the letter in question and it seems like the writer has two, mutually exclusive, complaints. First, he feels like the aftermarket 'rage' puts OOB builders at a disadvantage. Like Al, I'm not buying that argument. I've judged at plenty of shows and NEVER did my team have a conversation that went along the lines of, 'Well, this thing is awesome, but it was built OOB so it only gets honorable mention'.

However, in the second paragraph, the writer states "I have seem judges with laser levels, measuring tapes, and cutout balances to make surre every nook and cranny of a kit is level, scaled, and straight."

If that is the case (and while I've seen some pretty 'focused' judges, I've never seen any go to this extreme. Maybe at some of the big national shows?) then the writer isn't complaining about aftermarket at all. He is complaining about judges increased expectations regarding basic building skills. I'm don't think that is a problem at all.

Finally, the writer makes the points that many hobbyists must have been 'turned off' by their ability to compete. Well, my personal opinion is that this is supposed to be a HOBBY first, and a competition a very, VERY distant second.

I'm not buying it.

Tons of aftermarket doesn't win at contests...basics do.

The first cut judges make at the contest table eliminates (or at least reduces the likelihood of a podium finish) models based on poorly applied decals (silvered or not sealed), bad paint (drifting from boot to pants, neck to collar, brush marks, excessive amounts or orange peel), unfilled seams, uncleaned mold and pin ejector marks, alignment, floating wheels, tracks with gaps, finger prints, glue marks, etc.

My club gave up on OOB awards several years ago. At least half of the plaques would go unawarded because there were no entries in the classes. Where there were entries, 1/2 to 2/3 of the plaques went to models that also placed first, second or third in the class. This number isconsistent in all the contests I attend where OOB is an adjunct to the main classes. When the judging team has winnowed out the three place awards, it is very common that one of those will be listed as OOB. That means it automatically gets OOB.

We had also offered a strictly OOB contest in conjunction with a local air museum. Over the dozen or so years we ran it, entries declined by half or more and,  except for rare exceptions, the guys who took awards here were teh same guys who placed in the unlimited categories...talent simply shows.

Nice ship, Husky, and congrats on the well-deserved awards!

I agree with the guy who said "In the end, it all comes down to the judges.". Honestly, some judges don't have the brains to judge a coloring contest.I've been to contests where the judging was simply inexplicably bad, and everyone knew it. You just can't tell what some judges will consider worthy or not. Some decisions are seemingly completely arbitrary. In fact, some judges that I've been in a group with proved that to me when I listened to their commentary.

In my experience, there seems to be a dichotomy of modelers who can detail, and then modelers who can finish. It's like the difference between a skilled machinist and a great auto finisher. Different sides of the brain dominate; it's very rare that you find both in a modeler. Those are the masters!

My own strength is painting, not really detailing so much. In fact, I don't usually go overboard with it. And I scratchbuild many parts but I don't worry so much about identical replication--again, like Hans said, suggestion is the key. I will occasionally dress up a model with PE and other resin parts just as a "project" because I enjoy the process.

I think that Clayton Ronso may have been expressing the frustration of seeing some models that he feels he can't compete with. This can be a problem with modeling shows. If you have an especially prolific crowd, or even just one or two individuals who regularly shine, it can kill contests when the word gets around that so-and-so "always wins". Ironically, this fact--one that nobody really talks about much--will cause the judges to award awards to inferior models sometimes just to "spread the wealth around".

So, in the end, like I said--it all comes down to the judges.

What I tend to use and believe in is creativity and imagination. If you can build something that nobody has ever seen or done before, plus use different paint schemes, decals, scratchbuilding methods, diorama scenes, etc., then I feel you'll have a fighting chance of competing at a contest.

If you've ever read any of my posts, you'll know that you have a kindred spirit in me regarding that philosophy, CB... I've typed (endlessly, to some) many a word about the art of Scratch-building, Imagineering, and Creative Gizmology and their place in this high-dollar, AM-Parts over-populated hobby... That "12.00 on Ebay" 1/32 Revell Mustang III is as likely to win gold as the 120.00 Tamiya Mustang if the Revell modeler's got his "poop in a group"...

That said, and I've judged at a LOT of shows (primarily dioramas) over the years, I'm a firm believer in the premise that after-market parts simply are a "lazy" way to super-detail a kit, and the best stuff comes from the imagination and skills of the builder, not the AM Parts rack... They're fine if one feels that they're necessary to have included in the kit, and that's what the builder enjoys doing (I have no earthly idea why one would spend even more money on what is already likely a ridiculously high-priced kit anyway), but when it gets to the point of replacing 50-75 % of the kit's interior "greeblies", you're likely suffering from AMS and it's probably terminal...

One of the judging criteria used is "Scope of Effort"... A scratch-built seat/harness assembly and throttle quadrant, along with some wound-wire oxygen hose and stretched sprue hydraulic line that cost the builder about 15 cents in materials is going to garner more points from me in effort than a 25.00 P/E version of the same (provided it's well-done)...  Also, the stuff doesn't need to be bolt-for-bolt accurate... Suggestion is a greater (and easier) asset than duplication...  Especially when it comes to items that would, for the most part, be unseen without the use of a right-angle fiber-optic flashlight (although, I HAVE one, lol)...

No amount of after-market parts will save your model from being passed-over for recognition from me faster than one loaded-out with a hundred dollars-worth of PE and resin parts, but with big ol' fingerprint on a windscreen, an unsanded mold-parting line on a tire, or, horror-of-horrors,  a diorama depicting a truck or aircraft on the grass, but NO tracks... (You'd best be explaining to me, somehow,  where the helicopter that dropped them in place is)

Many modelers (especially the younger ones, in the 18-29 group) have gotten so far into the AM world that their skill-sets have stagnated at the point that if it can't be bought and added, it can't be done... And part of the blame for this can be dropped on judges who're easily "blinded by the brass", since they themselves probably fell into the same trap early on in their "serious modeler" years...

I've even read the words,  "Contest-Quality Model", in here... That's a lot of bunk.. Practically EVERY model (there are few exceptions, but they ARE exceptions) is "contest-quality" if one learns the basics, practices them, expands their techniques and modeling-material "list", always pays attention to the details, AND the judges are experienced (both as modelers and judges), knowledgeable, and well-informed as to what the judging criteria is and (more importantly), ISN'T...

"Logic dictates that the better built kit should rank higher, even though it's less complex."

It all comes down to the judging eventually. A good and skilled judge will KNOW the older Tamiya kit was a harder challenge. Does that even rate is what is needed to be asked.

CBHusky

A model should not win by how much aftermarket accessories a person bought and used, but by the skills and resourcefulness of the modeler.

Absolutely.

By my understanding of "OOB" competition category rules, with the exception of after-market decals, one can only use what's provided "in the box" when you buy the kit, plus cement, paint and filler. One cannot even add a flag or tarp made of a scrap of tissue paper if that tissue paper wsn't in the box when you bought it. You could, however, cut up and paint the instruction sheet if you could make something with it.

Judging (in OOB) is based on construction and painting standards. This (in theory) means that a kit like the old Tamiya Panzer IV Ausf.D and, say, Dragon's Pz. IV Ausf.D (the one with PE, turned barrel and 1000+ parts in the box) entered in "OOB" are judged to the same criteria. Now let's say that the veteran Tamiya kit is built to perfection, all seams filled, all sprue attachment  points and mould seams eradicated and the paint work is immaculately applied. On the other hand, the Dragon kit is "fully loaded" but there's evidence of glue spots, crooked parts or paint runs (or a combination). Logic dictates that the better built kit should rank higher, even though it's less complex. 

That is definitely an interesting and well-made model, CBHusky!

I haven't been to a show yet, let alone entered anything in a competition, but I'll definitely keep what you said in mind.  Personally, I'm just glad if something turns out well enough for me not to be embarrassed to have my name on a tag next to it in the LHS.