Kit Manufacturer Quality

What we have got here, is a failure to communicate...

some men, you just can't reach...

brickshooter

Hans von Hammer:

On the other hand, I do avoid the older Revell-Monogram kits.  I simply do not have the time nor skill to make major corrections such as re-scribing panel lines.   

Then stop doing it!

Most of the "Old School" Revellogram kits are raised lines, sure... But that's a damn-sight more accurate than trying to replicate butt-jointed panels that didn't exist on the protoptype, which, more often than not, had overlapping panels...

Your "major corrections" are self-induced "Major Inaccuracies"... 

 

 

 

I did. 

I purchased Tamiya and Hasegawa instead.

LOL... Ok..

Look, I ain't tryin' to tell ya what to build or how to build it,  only that whatever it is, build it and "accuraize" it after and while looking the prototype closely...  Take your own research photos whenever it's possible...  One trip to Midland, TX in the fall, and you'll fill a couple memory cards with detail shots of everything from a Sopwith Camel, DH-4, Fokker Dr 1s to a Bucker Jungmiester,  Storch, Bücker Bü-131 Jungmeister, Fw-190, "Tante Ju", Ju52, Bf-109, Spitfires, Mustangs, Mike-model P-47s, B-17s, B-17s, FM2, F6Fs, F-86s, T-33s, all the way up to, through, and includng F-117s and C-46s/47s to C-123s/C-17 and the rest of the "heavy iron"...  All in one place and in one time...

It's getting much easier to do that, as more and "modern" combat aircraft are entering the museums and posted as gate guards ... And I mean REALLY modern, not just the WW2 Warbirds and their cousins from the Korean war.. The USAF Museum has an F-22 inside its "barn"... The F-117 is completely retired, and there are privately-owned and flown  F-104s, F-4s, A-4s, F-14s, A-6s, and still other modern, 4th & 5th generation suck-jobs, as well as US Army L-19s, O-1s, O-2s, not to mention sling-wings like the Hueys, Cobras, Loaches, and Sh*thooks Chinooks...

 I've seen far too many kits butchered by "Accuracy N azis" that really don't know their subjects, and haven't studied (Yeah, studied, as in mid-terms and finals) the actual aircraft up close, have mis-interpreted the research photos, or (and this is usually the case) have gone on to doing what they saw someone else do to a model and mistakenly thought they were doing the right thing by following that modeler along... So, if you want real accuracy, it's best to make sure that you're using an accurate source... 

Likely as not, that kinda falls right into my usual plan of attack....                                                                                                                                                        

Hercmech

 

CallSignOWL:

 

well if you dont want any of your older kits just send 'em my way!

 

 

 

 

just kidding, you dont have to do that! 

 

 

Nope you can send them my way

Dibs on seconds!

CallSignOWL

well if you dont want any of your older kits just send 'em my way!

 

 

 

 

just kidding, you dont have to do that! 

Nope you can send them my way

well if you dont want any of your older kits just send 'em my way!

just kidding, you dont have to do that! 

CallSignOWL

brickshooter:

 

I did. 

I purchased Tamiya and Hasegawa instead.

 

 

if'n Im remembrin' correctly....Ive built a few Hasegawa kits what had raised panel lines!

Ive built kits of both kinds: raised and recessed. Any advantage the recessed lines have towards the kits' final appearance is marginal at best. I really dont care if one kit has raised/recessed panel lines. And if you are dismissing an entire line of kits based on that detail, I think its a rather stupid thing to do. You'll be missing out on a lot of great kits.

Since it'll take me 3 lifetimes to finish the stash that I have assuming that I stop purchasing new kits, missing out on a couple of older kits is ok with me.  I'll pass on the raised panel lines kits.        

If I was comparing 2 kits side by side at the same $, one raised lines, one without... yes, I'd take the recessed because I prefer using thin washes in the panel lines. But I'v enever said no to a kit because of raised lines or the name on the box, if it looked like a generally good kit. My most recent "poster child" would be a 30-year old special from Airfix, raised details all around. (The decals even played nice for me!)

Well said OWL!

As a wise man once said:

"It's hard to see things with your nose that high in the air." 

brickshooter

 

I did. 

I purchased Tamiya and Hasegawa instead.

if'n Im remembrin' correctly....Ive built a few Hasegawa kits what had raised panel lines!

Ive built kits of both kinds: raised and recessed. Any advantage the recessed lines have towards the kits' final appearance is marginal at best. I really dont care if one kit has raised/recessed panel lines. And if you are dismissing an entire line of kits based on that detail, I think its a rather stupid thing to do. You'll be missing out on a lot of great kits.

Hans von Hammer

On the other hand, I do avoid the older Revell-Monogram kits.  I simply do not have the time nor skill to make major corrections such as re-scribing panel lines.   

Then stop doing it!

Most of the "Old School" Revellogram kits are raised lines, sure... But that's a damn-sight more accurate than trying to replicate butt-jointed panels that didn't exist on the protoptype, which, more often than not, had overlapping panels...

Your "major corrections" are self-induced "Major Inaccuracies"... 

 

I did. 

I purchased Tamiya and Hasegawa instead.

bondoman

 

And lest anyone start throwing "Old School" tomatoes at me,

a freakin' C-17...

 

Obviously those planes were built wrong.

Spike, build by subject, not by manufacturer. If two companies make the same subject, look at the reviews and judge for yourself. Let your internal BS detector be your guide for the reviewer, get the kit you want and build it. If it's crap, lesson learned. If it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, congratulate yourself for your brilliance. 

Hans von Hammer

 

On the other hand, I do avoid the older Revell-Monogram kits.  I simply do not have the time nor skill to make major corrections such as re-scribing panel lines.   

 

Then stop doing it!

And lest anyone start throwing "Old School" tomatoes at me,

a freakin' C-17...

On the other hand, I do avoid the older Revell-Monogram kits.  I simply do not have the time nor skill to make major corrections such as re-scribing panel lines.   

Then stop doing it!

Most of the "Old School" Revellogram kits are raised lines, sure... But that's a damn-sight more accurate than trying to replicate butt-jointed panels that didn't exist on the protoptype, which, more often than not, had overlapping panels...

Your "major corrections" are self-induced "Major Inaccuracies"... 

brickshooter

Lastly, the age of a kit plays a major factor.   When Dragon was known as Shanghai-Dragon, they had serious issues. 

Actually, Shanghai Dragon are a separate division which continues to press the "B-catalogue" older kits after they have finished their run with the main company. Typically they are older tool kits which have been replaced by newly tooled versions. eg. the older "Imperial series" Panthers, Pz.III's and Pz.IV's

GreenThumb

 

CallSignOWL:

 

Dont ever dismiss Revell-Monogram---they have some absolute jewels.

 

 

Yes they do and their 1/48 F-15E Strike Eagle is a fantastic kit and cheap to boot, especially with a 50% off coupon from Michaels.

Very Nice !

Hans von Hammer

You damn skippy...

Old School is printed on the Revell kit boxes I bought.

Seems appropriate for this thread.........

Fun kits by Revell in 1971 ; still fun today.

Fit is quite good, requiring a minimum of filler.

IMO, regardless of manufacturer, new kits that have been released in the last 10 years or so are extremely good kits.  Due to the Chinese entering the modelling industry, manufacturers all over the world have really raised their level of quality in order to remain competitive.  For example, despite it's basement prices, the Revell F-18E/F and F-15E are outstanding models and do win at model shows.  

So when I shop, I don't stay strictly in the pricy Hasegawa or Tamiya section.  Instead, I shop all over.  And I look for the magic words "new tool" which indicates that the model was recently molded rather than a remake of a 1970s model with new decals.    On the other hand, I do avoid the older Revell-Monogram kits.  I simply do not have the time nor skill to make major corrections such as re-scribing panel lines.   

Also, I often ask the guys at the hobby shops whether certain kits are reboxed items. Revell Germany often reboxes Hasegawa molds at lower prices.   Italeri reboxes Kinetic molds.   Tamiya reboxes Italeri molds.  The line differentiating one manufacturer from another isn't as clear as it used to be.

Lastly, the age of a kit plays a major factor.   When Dragon was known as Shanghai-Dragon, they had serious issues.  Some kits will suggest that you want to move on to a new hobby.  Nowadays, they continuously produce state-of-the-art kits at near bottom prices.

You damn skippy...

CallSignOWL

Dont ever dismiss Revell-Monogram---they have some absolute jewels.

Yes they do and their 1/48 F-15E Strike Eagle is a fantastic kit and cheap to boot, especially with a 50% off coupon from Michaels.

I'm going to echo the statements for researching a specific subject before-hand. A number of companies are a bit "hit-and-miss" at times.

As an example: Ive built both the Tamiya P-51 and Monogram P-51...I say they are equal. Both have very nice fit, with the Tamiya clicking together and the Monogram only needing glue. The detail included is comparable, with an edge given to Monogram for their wonderful cockpit detail. Tamiya does have the plus with the separate flaps and clever construction on the nose of the plane. Raised panel lines dont bother me much. If I erase them while sanding, I can re-scribe them easily.

Personally, I really like Revell-Monogram and Tamiya. Ok, I'll admit that my experience with different manufacturers is a bit limited. Most of my stash consists of Revell-Monogram for the simple fact that the local hobby shop is a big craft store with a certain 40% off coupon; those Revellgram kits are abundant and cheap!

Dont ever dismiss Revell-Monogram---they have some absolute jewels. I know on many kits Ive built, the cockpit detail is outstanding. You'd be hard pressed to better it with any aftermarket goodies! And for beginners, I think they are some of the best. They teach you how to use the basic modeling techniques without breaking the bank!

PilotSpike

Lots of responses. To be honest, you guys are parsing this a bit too closely for my purposes :)

 

In answer to your questions regarding subjects and scale, I envision working primarily in 1/48 aircraft and i have an interest in armor as well. I am currently working a 1/72 A-10 which I find a bit small for my taste. Incidentally its an Academy kit and noticed that nobody even mentioned Academy so far in the thread. Id love to say I know why, but with only 2/3's kit under my belt that wouldn't be a fair statement. Though, with as much time as I have spent filling seams and ejector marks .....

I have not been envisioning the majority of my model building as targeted subjects. There will be some aircraft and armor that I specifically want to model but I have a feeling that in the near future a bunch of my builds will be simply based upon browsing the LHS and finding subjects that intrigue me.  If I had an inkling of whether or not the mfg is a good one would be nice.

 

I think Dre summed it up nicely when he said: I take it that you want a kit that you can build easily, rather than beat into submission?

I will get better and get stretched by tackling the "beat into submission" kits but I was hoping to get to the point where I  know enough of the mfgs such that I can reasonably gamble and purchase a kit that I can build more easily. Maybe I just want to take a few weeks and put something together without argument :) Especially if I want to use it as a distraction from life.  Alternatively  I might want to work on painting skills or some such  and I wouldnt want to have to sink tons of time getting parts fit worked out, etc. I hope that makes sense.

 

 

Ok, here's a shot at an answer from someone comming back to the hobby after a few years off.

I started off with a Tamiya 1/48 Corsair.  I have always like the Tam kits, easy to build, good detail, good fit quality and most important to me, good instructions.  A late WWII Corsair also has an easy color scheme that you can spray paint if you don't have an air brush as I did.

I also built a 1/35 Tam Willies, just for fun but also to practice air brushing when I finally got my brush.  Also an easy paint scheme.

I am finishing up a 1/48 Hobby Boss FJ4 Fury.  Nice details, fit is ok for the most part, but instructions and paint color call outs arent that great, but not bad either, but it's not one of their higher end kits like their new F-14

I am moving onto a 1/48 Hasagawa F8 Crusader.  I test fitted the the fusalage and it it fits like a glove.  Details look great. as well. Instructions are good, but a little busy to read but generally ok.

Personally, I like clear instuctions.  I don't have a lot of extra funds to buy reference material for every subject I build and quite frankly, I am not a rivet counter so as long as it looks good I am happy.  Also, I might be a bit lazy, so good instructions also help having me to research every detail.

Thus far, my favorites manufactures are

1 - Tamiya

2 - Hasagawa (though I haven't started to build one yet, just intital reviews)

3 - Hobby Boss (by default as I have only built kits from these 3 manufactures)

Good Luck!

John

And there is nothing wrong with a "Shake and Bake" build. Especially after a series of kits that you have tricked out or just had to do lots of work on to bring up to your own par. At tht point a "shank n bake" is a great way to recharge the batteries and get your *** back. I just built a sweet little Tamiya AFV kit that took only two short afternoon sessions to build, and then another weeks worth of afternoon sessions finishing with paint and weathering. For me, that's a speed record to have an AFV in a few weekends. Now I have the motivation again to finish some other more involved projects that have stalled. Completions are a good thing

... I am just as sensitive to those guys who just want to put something together without having to work at it that much...

Those guys are good.. I'll make 'em better...

If that sounds "elitist", I can't help that... That's only elitist if someone takes it that way, rather than the way I mean it...  I never wanted to do anything but show folks how one can take a kit like a 40-year old Mongram, and make it a winner,  WITHOUT spending more than a couple bucks on detail materials... 

Is that "Elitist"? I don't think so...  Maybe a little arrogant, but that's just me... I only say that crap in jest anyway, much the same way I call the Braile-Scale guys "Jewelers", and they fire back at me with "Blacksmith"... It's all good..

I work with a couple of companies on products that are beyond the "kit assembler" insult, so don't get me wrong; I dig quality and the desire to go above and beyond.

Actually, I called 'em "Shake & Bakers"..  Toss a glue tube in the box, shake it, and out pops a completed model... On my part, it's just good-natured ribbing...

Man, I got hundreds of kits, ranging from Lindberg, Monogram, and HAWK to Tamiya, Frog, Dragon, Academy, and yes, even Trumpeter.... I build 'em all... I just don't go out and spend money for AM parts to detail, I make 'em m'self...  And I like to show folks how I did it...

Feel free to join up for the next "Monogram Mafia" Group Build, Tracy... Let's see what ya got with a 1966 HAWK kit, or a 1955 Revell Dr 1...

Oh.. I'm tired and grumpy all the time...

See, I manage two apartment buildings and have 70 idiots tenants that I have to deal with daily...  I live in a college-town, so there's a lot of 13th-graders living there... Effin' dummies..

But that's another rant somewhere else...

Who brought the pop corn?

Hans von Hammer

Did yas even notice the Monogram Mafia badge?

Did yas think I should even care?

You enjoy the hobby one way. Others have their own way as well. I work with a couple of companies on products that are beyond the "kit assembler" insult, so don't get me wrong; I dig quality and the desire to go above and beyond. However, I am just as sensitive to those guys who just want to put something together without having to work at it that much; they're just as legitimate as you and I and you can expect me to continue poking people who act like they're somehow superior.

You want to feel elite, fine. I'll do what I can within the schizophrenic rules to point out fallacies that are detrimental to the hobby.

I'm tired and grumpy from working late and getting up early, so I'm going to sign off for the weekend and take myself out of this conversation.

DoogsATX

I have numerous Tamiya kits in the stash. I also have numerous Revellograms. 

I have both as well but would not recommend one over the other by brand alone.

Either way, my favorite part of a build comes after the primer coat goes on.

Does that make me a "painter"?

No, that makes you a modeler who likes the painting part most as do I.

Either way, my favorite part of a build comes after the primer coat goes on.

Does that make me a "painter"?

Primer-Coat???

Any Kit can be made to look great .. or not so great.. Each brand can have it's duds or thumbs up ! I try to pick the subject that interests me,, and go from there.. Monogram's,, Hawks, Tamiya. HASA.. all have good points,,....

GreenThumb

Cadet Chuck:

I would avoid Revell / Monogram.

 

In my opinion if you are a real modeler you can make a nice kit out of Revell/Monogram.

If you only buy Tamiya because they are easier to build then you are more of an "assembler" than a modeler.

That's another manufacturer that has kits spanning a 60 year history with multiple now-defunct model companies absorbed into their inventory. You have original Monogram kits, original Revell kits, original Aurora kits, some previous Revell of Germany kits and post-merger Revell-Monogram kits all belonging to the same company.

Making a blanket statement about a company with a wide range of kits with various origins and differing ages can't be accurate.

Some of Revell and Monogram's best kits came from pop culture subjects like Batman Forever, SeaQuest DSV, Star Trek Voyager, Babylon 5, Buck Rodgers, and Star Wars kits.

Revell (pre-Monogram merger) produced very nice (for the time) 1/40th scale armor kits. Likewise Monogram's 1/32 and 1/35 scale armor was great for its time. 50+ years later, the M48A2 is still a good seller.