3D Printing and Modeling: What's in the future for us???

"In my opinion, 3d Printers will eventually kill photo etch."

Nonsense. 

Print resolution isn't near PE quality today, and even if it does get there, you won't change the fact that plastics don't have the stiffness or strength to hold up during handling.

Today you're hard pressed to get parts with "wires" under 0.7mm (~ 0.030", or 1/32"). I made stanchions for my Revell Firefighter re-do at this size, and they were flimsy like wet tissue paper and a terror to work with.

Revell Firefighter, with entire cabin structure and most topside details redone in 3DP:

The 1/32" diameter stanchions- almost impossible to work with, and still a bit too clunky:

Another issue, the process tends to warp flimsy parts... even in the multijet process, droplets go down hot then cool... leading to unpredictable warpages depending on part orientation- which in turn is random at most printing houses. Here's a warped ladder for Firefighter... I gave up on it and used a molded HO scale ladder.

But you can get some usable results. Here are my fire monitors, and those dished handwheels would have been very tricky as PE parts!

Cabin, fire monitors, tower, stanchions were all 3D Printed. 

There are too many 3D Printing threads! But I'll revive this one anyway since the Tag Cloud keeps pointing to it.

I see a lot of yakking here but no data, which leads me to believe it's a bunch of armchair modelers worrying about 3D Printing but not actually using it. No pics, it didn't happen. 

So here are my pics, an entire model (well maybe 99.5%), 3D Printed from my own CAD design from my own research, no pirating at all:

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/general_discussion/f/9/t/155741.aspx

Yes it's possible, and yes there are problems and it's expensive and it can be a pain, and no a home printer isn't going to do this for you, fuggetaboutit! But it's possible...

Being an avid modeller AND a CAD designer by trade, I see limited use of 3D printers by the average person. The quality of even the best 3D printer is no match for the output of a plastic injection mold. You will still have to file, sand and otherwise finish the part for it to be useful. That being said, I am really close to buying a Makerbot printer. I own a seat of 3D modelling software. If I buy a printer it will be used for one off creation of parts for modelling and other projects. The learning curve for modelling software is pretty high also. Of course, you can download all kinds of files for use in the printer but very little is of practical use.

Posted by Chromdome35 on 10-21-2012 5:46 AM

"In my opinion, 3d Printers will eventually kill photo etch."

I could defenitly see that happening in the near future. It is exactly how white metal got replaced with resin. And there are several AM companies who make there masters with 3d printers. So they are getting the know how of cad/cam. When the price comes down they will stop making masters and just print the final product.

  "At only $2,199 it's one of the cheapest 3-d printers on the market."

Boy, that is a lot of kits :-)

But I certainly agree that I'd like a laser cutter system.  I also would like to see more, and easier to use, businesses offering custom laser cutting.

The major play I see with these is that they would be great for building your own parts to detail your model with.

In my opinion, 3d Printers will eventually kill photo etch.

I’d love to go on one of the online shops or maybe even the manufactures site and order the files necessary to print out a 3D kit. Let’s say a car from Tamiya, to print out in plastic, transparent and rubber. Opps! I got glue on the windshield! No problem, print out the replacement. Buy the entire kit or replacement parts files online.

No need to go to the store or wait for the big brown truck. Own 200 kits on a few discs or other storage device, get all that self space back! Only print them when you’re ready to build!

The future is now....meet the Replicator II.

store.makerbot.com/replicator2.html

At only $2,199 it's one of the cheapest 3-d printers on the market, and you can be sure that price will only drop as the technology becomes cheaper and newer iterations of the machine come out.

(But personally I'd rather have a laser cutter at home, or maybe this....http://knkusa.com/shop/knk-zing/ No fancy ventilation system to deal with and a lot cheaper.)

Sound Great. I agree

But just a 3D CAD program may not be enough.  It needs to be compatible with the printer software.  Also, just the CAD file may not be enough.  Many CAM systems need a conversion software that converts the CAD files into CAM instruction files, and it is often not just a simple file conversion, but includes some user input.  Now, those 3D printers are not conventional CAM, so maybe those conversion programs won't be needed, but still the CAD files must be compatible with the printer software. I hope they don't require DXF files- AutoCAD is quite expensive!

"No photo it didn't happen" is a rule I see all to often when folks keep yaking! I haven't seen anything useful from theses machines that solved a problem outside of the manufacturing relm. Although it is a modeler who actually takes his idea and shows proof of concept. 3-D? Give it up!!!

waynec

 good 3d software in not cheap

Are you sure? Blender is used for Animation and 3D art.... and it's free. Sure it's very hard to learn, but some major animation studios use it.

Once someone works out a way to print Google Sketchup models, (another freebie) that will open up an easy way to create 3D shapes.

i1028.photobucket.com/.../3dba49d6d3b3.jpg

It is still possible for a human to create 3-D art. I'm just sayin

Just to be clear I have no problems with computer modeling. I have done 3d modeling for a flight sim in the past and some skin work. I consider both on par with modeling; they require skills although some of them are different ones. My comment was more directed at the scan an item and then have the 3d printer produce it. That is not really doing much of anything in my opinion that is having the computer do it.

I looked at solid wood models as an entirely different medium and seperate genre (much like RC models  and the "stick & tissue" kits) of scale modeling...  

Big_Dog

I still see the stumbling block of having the original part to scan/create. As others have stated 3d computer modeling is intensive and time consuming. If you have the original part and just want to reproduce more of them that can be done now. However if you do not have an original you will either have to fabricate one physically or digitally.

Besides where is the joy of creation if you are just mashing some buttons and a computer is doing the work?

I have only tried a little 3D CAD, but I assume it will be like 2D CAD as far as a learning curve.  I taught myself CAD just for modeling. First few projects took forever, but I gradually came up to speed (yeah, a shallowlearning curve is the hard one- a steep learning curve means it is easy to learn!).  Anyway, if I really get interested in 3D CAD I'd pick up a 3D package.  Scratch builders generally need to do some drafting anyway, if it is really a scratch project, even if that drafting is resizing someone else's drawings.

Some folks get lot of satisfaction in planning a project, doing the references, etc., and the drafting if it is a scratch project.  Others are specialists in painting (I suspect color choices in 3D printing will not be adequate for scale models.

The same kind of thing has been said about plastic kits.  Old timers who built wood "solid models" criticize current plastic models as just assembling a bunch of preformed parts, not shaping all those parts like we had to do in "the good old days."

...you are just mashing some buttons and a computer is doing the work...

Some would call that "creating".. Sadly, I don't see the need for "instant graification" going away as technology progresses..  I expect to see much more of that condition.. MUCH more..

I still see the stumbling block of having the original part to scan/create. As others have stated 3d computer modeling is intensive and time consuming. If you have the original part and just want to reproduce more of them that can be done now. However if you do not have an original you will either have to fabricate one physically or digitally.

Besides where is the joy of creation if you are just mashing some buttons and a computer is doing the work?

I maintain that someone who is a good scratch builder will beat someone who isn't, even if both use aftermarket detail parts.  I do both.  When a kit is not available of something I really want to build, I will scratch the basic structure.  However, it is nice to use aftermarket details.  I am not a masachist.  I'll save the effort for the basic structure.  I use computers a lot in my scratch building, do resin casting for multiple parts- even bought a do-it-yourself PE making set from Micro Mark. But if resin or PE details ARE available, I'll use them.

That's not what I'm talking about, Don.. It's more like me not being very happy when a guy loses-out to a cherry modeler, one who's only been in the hobby for a couple years, but thanks to the plethora of AM detail parts, builds with his wallet and not his own modeling skills..  The ever elusive, often ignored "Scope of Effort" judging criteria doen't get met that way, IMHO.. 

 I've seen too many dioramas (That's the only category I judge in) that weren't even complete win, even after I pointed out the flaws to the other judges.. Cropping tails, structures and kits parallell to edges, unfinished structure interiors with windiws or open sides, figures running every which way instead of away or towards the "enemy in the distance", poor or no story-line etc.. They were just BIG doioramas, with multiple kits and lost to smaller, complete, and excellent "one model" dios..

But I digress

They haven't "made their bones" yet, IMNSHO...( Hence, the "Monogram Mafia" was born, lol..)

That's why I made the "Star-Trek Replicator" post..   I know we won't live to actually see  it, but I do foresee it one day, maybe in the 23rd century.. Home replicators at afforable prices.. Might be that one would forego programming by then, and just buy the disc (ir whatever ROM thing they have) of 101 German AFVs-1939 - 1945...

Disclaimer: There WAS a bit of a rant there, but this post is largely "tongue-in-cheek"... 

I think think one can imagine several plausible scenarios for 3d printing.

1) everybody has a 3d printer in their homes. The whole industrial and distribution process is changed. Not only for models but also for jewelry, electronics, food (yes they are working 3d food printers) etc etc. So if you need a new bowl, just download a design and print it.

2) high capacity 3d printers come available but stay expensive. So printer owners operate in a Shapeway model. They are the marketplace for designers and customers. Plus they distribute the product. Starting a company becomes easy since you only have to design stuff, the printer company makes and distributes your product.

3) ...

I would think there are two main variables. Firstly does the high end printing  technology become cheaper. Secondly does the designing technology (software, 3d scanning, etc) become cheap and acceable. Just put these two variables in a two by two matrix and you have got 4 possible scenario's.

Most of the 3D scanners I am aware of are likely not adequate for good modeling work.  Company I used to work at started a project one time to make 3D scanners for scupturers.  Eventually gave up.  It is expensive to get good accuracy at a reasonable price.  If laser and you are using TOF, the timing has to be ridulously fast.  Triangulation needs really precise angle accuracy.

waynec

it is a tad more complicated than the star trek replicators. good 3d software in not cheap plus the learning curve. the material for the printing is another expense.  and the 3D scanner if you are not designing/drawing the part in CAD. i built a PZ-IIG years ago in 3D taking dimensions from the tamiya kit and it is a whole different thought process and skill set. i don't think the ordinary modeler is going to be doing this just like the ordinay modeler does not do his own PE.

Agreed entirely.

I'm a sculptor/scratchbuilder who has also been using 3D CAD software for the past 12-15 years, and I can say without question that there is a real learning curve, and an absolutely dedicated skillset one needs for 3D modeling that does not directly translate from physical skills. I would say that the amount of work that an aspiring builder would need to perform to recreate any given piece or part effectively would be a serious obstacle to anyone who is not absolutely dedicated to mastering the particular software involved.




 

waynec

it is a tad more complicated than the star trek replicators. good 3d software in not cheap plus the learning curve. the material for the printing is another expense.  and the 3D scanner if you are not designing/drawing the part in CAD. i built a PZ-IIG years ago in 3D taking dimensions from the tamiya kit and it is a whole different thought process and skill set. i don't think the ordinary modeler is going to be doing this just like the ordinay modeler does not do his own PE.

^^^ this

it is a tad more complicated than the star trek replicators. good 3d software in not cheap plus the learning curve. the material for the printing is another expense.  and the 3D scanner if you are not designing/drawing the part in CAD. i built a PZ-IIG years ago in 3D taking dimensions from the tamiya kit and it is a whole different thought process and skill set. i don't think the ordinary modeler is going to be doing this just like the ordinay modeler does not do his own PE.

Hans von Hammer

We really do need to preserve "modeling" as we know it. There is a potential to skip past the work with this technology.

Heh.. I said the same thing about after-market parts vs scratch-building years ago.. Sure enough, it came to pass.. Seems that the majority of modelers out there won't even attempt to scratch-build, and others that used to have stopped..  And why should they scratch-build details when they can buy the stuff off the rack?  

Even teenage beginners can conceivably walk away with the Gold now.. Why bother spending years learning how to make what you need?

Gawd, I feel like such a dinosaur.. I can really relate to the "Old Guard" and how they felt about them new-fangled injection-molded kits now..

I maintain that someone who is a good scratch builder will beat someone who isn't, even if both use aftermarket detail parts.  I do both.  When a kit is not available of something I really want to build, I will scratch the basic structure.  However, it is nice to use aftermarket details.  I am not a masachist.  I'll save the effort for the basic structure.  I use computers a lot in my scratch building, do resin casting for multiple parts- even bought a do-it-yourself PE making set from Micro Mark. But if resin or PE details ARE available, I'll use them.

Reminds me of the rules that until recently were in place for scratchbuilt category at Manitow- even the rigging parts (blocks, belaying pins, etc.) had to be scratched.  No one said the modeler had to grow their own cotton and spin their own thread, thank god. I believe those rules have been relaxed a bit.

Seems to me an affordable 3D printer is just a tool for scratch builders.

We really do need to preserve "modeling" as we know it. There is a potential to skip past the work with this technology.

Heh.. I said the same thing about after-market parts vs scratch-building years ago.. Sure enough, it came to pass.. Seems that the majority of modelers out there won't even attempt to scratch-build, and others that used to have stopped..  And why should they scratch-build details when they can buy the stuff off the rack?  

Even teenage beginners can conceivably walk away with the Gold now.. Why bother spending years learning how to make what you need?

Gawd, I feel like such a dinosaur.. I can really relate to the "Old Guard" and how they felt about them new-fangled injection-molded kits now..

Heh.. I'm hearing, "Computer... Build Model Tank.. 1/35th scale... Panzer IV Ausf H... Painted. 1st SS Panzer Division, LAH, circa September 1943, medium weathering. Add crew figures.. Painted.. External Stowage for five crew.."...

POOF! Off to the IPMS show!

My apology if this video has been pointed out before, but I haven't read the other threads on 3D printing. www.youtube.com/watch I love watching it. Anyway, to an extent, I think it IS fair to compare 3D scanners/printers to VCRs, etc. Not only modelers can use them. I think proffesional model makers would use them, like for models of buildings and structures. How about toy collectors? Being a collector of some '60s and '70s toy lines, heck yeah! I can think of all sorts of non 1/12 scale stuff that a lot of folks, myself include, would love to scan, scale up or down to 1/12 for my Major Matt Mason collection. Likewise for 1/6 for GI Joe collectors. How about a really hard to find toy and a collector doesn't care if it's a repro? I'm not such a diehard but I'll take a repro over none at all most any time. Same for plastic models. Restoration people, of all things. No, I think there's a much bigger market than some think, espcially when the prices drop. I remember 30 years ago when i bought my first VHS VCR from Sears, on sale, for $425. Now I think they're about 5% of that if you can find them. About 15 years ago when I got online via WebTV, for about $300 including the wireless keyboard, I think they're worthless now. I quickly found out I HAD to have a printer. the cheapest I found was a Canon of some sort at Walmart for about $110. Now printers are all over for what, $25 or so? Give 'em a few years and most of us will have 3D scanners/printerss next to our workbenches.

Comparing something such as a VCR or CD player to a 3D printer isn't the same. VCR/CD players are purchased by millions of people, where as something specialized such as a 3D has appeal to only those with an interest in such things.

The consumables a 3D printer uses also needs to be factored in, such as toner or ink does for a conventional printer.

In a society that continues to demand more turnkey or having things ready made or done for them, we've seen first hand its impact on scale modeling. So, I don't see 3D printing becoming a mass rage.

Unless...at some point you can email a someone a birthday or anniversary greeting and the 3D printer produces the gift "on the spot."  Again here too, cost of operating the machine comes into play.

Remember fax machines? Those who had them soon learned that they were expensive to operate...unsolicited faxes caused mfrs to produce plain paper units with preview capability before printing so owners could screen the faxes before printing them. I can remember opening the hardware store and finding a 25' roll of paper sprawled across the floor in the office after the fax machine ran all night long printing faxes...some wanted but most just sales solicitations.The machine beeping demanding to be refilled with more paper. Thermal paper gave way to inkjet and laser types. Now many use online fax services.

3D will no doubt in my mind follow a similar course.