tankerbuilder

 don,t

lol ......wat 

jk  eye daunt ghet wat ur saing "  tha elavater waz crooked

Sometimes even with correct grammar I have no idea what some posts are about.........

Punctuation is significant. This manipulation of information constitutes what people, both negative and positive, think. Elsewhere, blame it on cosmic rays.

I always laugh when I see someone criticising another about poor "grammer"...

I agree Tanker

I think that exact spelling and grammar is only important when we type out specific brand names and specific aircraft designations (for example)

the order of the letters and numbers in designations really do/did have a meaning, there is a world of difference between an F-4B and an F4B, and I don't know of any F4-B

it seems unimportant, but, it is pretty hard to do an online search for things with the wrong designators

but, if a sentence ain't wrote goodly, dat don't matter as much, as long as the person reeding can tell that someone is saying that the pointed end of the drop tanks goes towards the front

Let's eat Grandpa!

Let's eat, Grandpa!

I guess grammar is important, at least to Grandpa.

"There, there, best friend," or  "They're there, best friend," or "They're their best friend. "  Each has a very different meaning depending on the spelling and punctuation.

Quite simply, the proper use of spelling, punctuation and other rules of grammar make communication comprehensible. Not only do misspellings, yes, we all post typographical errors when in a hurry, potentially confuse the reader, the make the writer appear less intelligent, especially in a written medium like this.

Rereading the original post. I'm not sure if it's satirical or serious. That's another reason clarity is needed. In person, one would be able to tell from inflection, body language, facial expression of tone of voice more context and know whether to take the person seriously or not.

Spelling isn't important? Forget the R in shirt and and see what happens.

Yes, it does matter.

    When you write something, the way you write it has an incredible effect on the message other people read, regardless of what you intended to say when you wrote it. When people read a message from you, they are going to frame your character a certain way in their mind. It's human nature. And that depends both on your writing skill, and their reading skills. So, if your message, or your post, or your letter to Aunt Sally to whom you've never spoken in 20 years is full of grammatical errors, how is that going to make you look? Not only that, since you've stated already that it doesn't matter to you, you're really limiting yourself. If you can't communicate well, you're stuck with others who share the same mentality and the spread of information stagnates.

   And here's where it really matters:  The harsh truth is, I ignore most of your posts because you write the titles in all caps. You could call me a grammar nazi, but, if you're not willing to make the effort to use the language correctly, why should I make the effort to read your post and possibly solve a problem you've been having? You're only handicapping yourself.

    *runs to put flame suit on*

Why are all your topics in capital letters and why can't I ever understand Tom Z's posts?

this is funny

so, the word is that grammar and spelling is important?

but, it is perfectly okay to say that "all Phantom drop tanks are permanently mounted to their pylons", or "Navy Phantoms did NOT have chaff/flare dispensers behind the RAT", as long as the punctuation is perfect, and the correct "there" is used?

right, the medium is the message, content doesn't matter

me am almostly justy about done with dis heyah college thesis online on FSM,,,,,,,that is just about as phoney as anything I have ever read on the internet

IF (see, it is a big IF) this were true, then there would have been a test to join here,,,,,,,and there surely was not one,,,,,,IF there had been a test,,,,,,there would not be so much information being corrected on the various posts, the people that passed the tests would know most of the info already

TarnShip

this is funny

so, the word is that grammar and spelling is important?

but, it is perfectly okay to say that "all Phantom drop tanks are permanently mounted to their pylons", or "Navy Phantoms did NOT have chaff/flare dispensers behind the RAT", as long as the punctuation is perfect, and the correct "there" is used?

right, the medium is the message, content doesn't matter

C'mon Tarnship, you're being obtuse and confrontational. That is NOT what people are saying. However, what they are saying is that, yes it is important to use proper punctuation and spelling in order to clearly convey your thoughts. Consider Tankerbuilder's posts. I gave up trying to read them years ago because I find them unintelligible. His constant misuse of commas and apostrophes makes his post virtual gibberish to me and I grew tired of all the effort I had to put in trying to decipher them.

Internet forums only 'work' when people can clearly express their opinions, experiences, and views. The most effective way to do this is by following agreed upon conventions of grammar, spelling, and punctuation.

tankerbuilder

I write to all types of folks.many are HIGH SCHOOL grads.many are like me,COLLEGE grads.and others are school dropouts getting or haveing a G.E.D.. They are not worried where I put the comma,now are they? 

Just for the record... I'm worried where you put the comma.

nope, I am NOT being obtuse and confrontational

I am being "inclusive" when people are trying to become or continue to be "exclusive"

this is not  "be right or be wrong" type of topic, where some poster "wins" by being the most grammatically correct

this is the type of post and response opportunity that can make people either feel included in an online community  or make people decide to leave, because they don't "measure up"

me?,,,,,,,I am one of those strange types on the modeling forums,,,,,,I believe in having MORE people stay on the forums, instead of chasing people away

me am be surely that you do NOT get this,,,,,,,,but, places like this are really supposed to be about the message, not the proper form of presentation

Rex

ps, in your vast knowledge of all things on the planet,,,,,,,,you seem to have missed how a comma gets used instead of an apostrophe, by people above a certain age

Nathan T

Why are all your topics in capital letters and why can't I ever understand Tom Z's posts?

Come You Nigh, Kay Shuns

FYI a classic SF story by Lawrence A. Perkins, published in Analog Science Fiction / Science Fact, April 1970. (I worked by Defense COMMUNICATIONS Agency.)

TarnShip

me am be surely that you do NOT get this,,,,,,,,but, places like this are really supposed to be about the message, not the proper form of presentation

  And we are saying that if the message is not presented in an intelligible form, then it cannot be understood. Isn't that of value to you?

This is bound to get very ugly, very fast. I'll post no more in this discussion.

and me, in all of my uneducated glory, I seem to have understood the Original Post

as did all of the people that want him to change his style or want him shut up, or whatever this weekend's agenda is

if you can understand the post enough to rally with answers,,,,,,,it was,,,,,,by definition, clear enough

you parsed it out, but, as I said, this is not exactly what it seems on the surface,,,,,,it will be read and understood with a meaning thinly veiled and under that surface,,,,,,,,by people that were "just on the verge" of deciding whether to post or not,,,,,,,,,,and even the most highly educated, most elite, most _______iest, won't ever know (or admit) that they played a part in stifling even one member

edit to add

the responses to this post are the last straw for me,,,,,,I will come here to check pm's when my email account alerts me,,,,,,,but, otherwise "I got mine already", people can just read or get answers from others, there wasn't much the group that doesn't know a Chaff door from a RAT door could help me with, anyway

Nathan T

Why are all your topics in capital letters and why can't I ever understand Tom Z's posts?

I can understand what tankerbuilder is saying more then what Tom Z's cooking up. 

I do agree that correct spelling and punctuation makes for a much easier read. I have a friend on Facebook who never capitalizes anything. Looks like a child typed the sentence.

TarnShip

this is the type of post and response opportunity that can make people either feel included in an online community  or make people decide to leave, because they don't "measure up"

me?,,,,,,,I am one of those strange types on the modeling forums,,,,,,I believe in having MORE people stay on the forums, instead of chasing people away

I'm right there with you, Tarnship - the more participation the better. I don't want to chase anyone away. Unfortunately, the route to successful participation is through effectively communicating with the written word. Based on your arguement, I could type my responses in Polish or Greek or Mandarin, because who really cares WHAT I'm trying to say, so long as I participate and say SOMETHING...

nope, based on my argument,,,,,,you already understood the post a-okay enough (well enough to read, understand, and respond to it)

that was my point, not anything else about Polish, Greek, or Mandarin

and I clearly stated that the WHAT is important,,,,,but, you are still parsing away

hmmm, I thought something was wrong, but, couldn't quite catch it,,,,,,it should have made the post above completely impossible to read,,,,,,,but,,,,,,,,well,,,,,,here, this speaks for itself

Hmmm... I don't think I said what you think I said... and that is actually kind of funny. Here we are, actually posting pretty clearly worded replies to one another, and still we are talking past one another. Your growing frustration with me indicates that I seem to be missing your point, and I feel you are missing mine. The funny thing is, I don't think either one of us set out to get into a spat with the other - but that is what happens when you only have the written word to respond to, absent emphasis ans facial expression and body language.

That, to me, is why all that grammar 'stuff' is important - it's already hard enough to communicate through this imperfect medium.

PS: "Arguement"... that's funny. Hey, I never claimed to be perfect...

It's not about grammar. It's about effective communication. 

Now...I'm no stickler for grammar. I love starting sentences with "but" and hurl massive quantities of adverbs and overuse the ellipsis and yes, even use the dreaded passive voice.

But (see, there I go) this is the internet. Text is how we communicate with one another. And so it has to be comprehensible by others who read it. 

People say that going all caps is the equivalent of screaming. Fair enough. By the same token, I think messy communications are the same as slurring your speech to the point where people can't easily make out what you're saying.

Browni, "Arguement" is really funny,,,,,,,,,but, only for two reasons,,,,one, it is typed and not verbal, verbally, it wouldn't sound any different

the other reason is the reason I pointed it out,,,,,,,,,it is a typo (word spelled wrong), in a thread about misspelled words

I am merely trying to stand up for a guy that I have learned is "of a certain age", and belongs to a group of people that learned to type in a completely different way than I myself learned, and in a completely different way than anyone younger than my almost 56 years

all of those guys that learned on Underwoods have it different than those of us that learned on Selectrics and Selectric IIs,,,,,,,,and the Selectric group learned differently than the ones that took "Keyboarding" in 8th grade, instead of High School typing class (or gasp !!!, didn't take typing until college)

the bottom line is a simple question,,,,,,,if you ask at 11am saturday what color of yellow to get at the hobby shop before you run out for an hour's drive to get the color, and someone types up an answer,,,,,,,,,can you read it well enough to know that you want a bottle of "Yellow, RLM 4"

if you can, and you get Gelb RLM 04,,,,,,,,,,then the message was typed clear enough by the old guy that painted the yellow cowls on a 'Schmidt before I was a teen able to "just buy a tin of Humbrol or a bottle of Pactra"

and you are completely correct,,,,,,I am sure neither of us set out to argue with each other about this

but, there is also a very logical reason for a person typing in All Caps

as a Mod on another site, I once had to learn NOT to ban a certain 65 year old English lady for constantly typing in all caps,,,,,,,,,and I wound up encouraging the chat room members that were her friends to go ahead and type in all caps while she was in the room

at the time, you didn't have a simple scroller on your keyboard that enabled everything on the screen to be enlarged for you,,,,,,,,,the default font we are using right now would just wind up looking like gray lines to her

granted, most modelers can see pretty well,,,,,,,but, there are still some old people out there that "have always modeled" and still haven't quit,,,,,,,,that can't see all that well anymore

heck,,,,,,,,,,,,,I should probably apologize for using the "comma ellipsis" so often,,,,,,except that I mostly used a computer for "really big deal stuff" or in a chatroom,,,,,,,,a lot of people used ellipsises(?ellipsi?),,,,,,,,I developed the habit of using commas in mine to stand out to friends in the chatroom

TarnShip

it is a typo (word spelled wrong), in a thread about misspelled words

And once again, you are proving my point. To you, this thread is aboutt misspelled words. To me, it is not. It's about effective communication.

yeah, I am the one being obtuse,,,,,,,,I have explained it, in the smallest words I can

I know you can't or won't get it,,,,,,,,,,and I no longer care,,,,,,I know that I can read it, and you just go right ahead with your agenda,,,,,,,I am done

Another forum I belong to has a grammar/spelling police and he is known to criticize others for the lack of grammar/spelling skills.  Unfortunate for that man, he doesn't know the difference in between Their,  They're, Your, You're and so on, so only time I bust someone for the grammar/spelling error is when he makes those mistakes.    I try my best to use proper grammar, spelling and punctuation as a courtesy and respect to others who might be reading my post, but English being my second language, I do slip up more often than I'd like to admit.  

I'm all for good spelling and grammar but I think we need to accept that not everyone has the same level of understanding of grammar and spelling. With that said, a poorly written post won't convey it's message and everyone will ignore it. Then the person gets discouraged that no one reads their posts.

Texting is killing spelling and grammar as ppl try 2 get as much said in as few characters as they can. Or they use interwebs slang like boi and what not. That may be fine when texting u bros, but it isn't when posting to a public form full of strangers that you want feedback from.

TL:DR: some basic mistakes are fine; we aren't all English teachers. but writing error filled posts because you're lazy is considerate to your fellow forum mates.

Gents,

This conversation has taken a somewhat ugly turn. As an editor, misspellings and bad grammar are part of my job description ... in the magazine. The Internet is a different kettle of fish and I don't think anyone should be criticizing anyone else on FSM's public forums for errors. This is an unproductive discussion that seems intended only to make other users feel bad about their use of language and/or typing skills. How's about we drop it and get back to what we're really here for: Constructive criticism and discussion of modeling.

For the sake of clarity, this note should be considered a warning. Any member posting inflammatory or abusive posts in this thread after this one will have their account suspended.

Regards, Aaron

TarnShip

yeah, I am the one being obtuse,,,,,,,,I have explained it, in the smallest words I can

I know you can't or won't get it,,,,,,,,,,and I no longer care,,,,,,I know that I can read it, and you just go right ahead with your agenda,,,,,,,I am done

Tarnship

I don't get it. Why do you seem so ticked off at me about this. The point I was trying to make in my last post (apparently none too clearly) is that we see this differently, so we are basically talking about different things. I wasn't trying to be belligerent, I was just making a quick observation. No need to go all "in the smallest words I can" on me...

Look, you want me to concede that there are certain people, "of a certain age" is the phrase that I think you used, who struggle when using the internet to communicate. Fine, I've got no problem with that. But the entire topic of this thread is grammar, punctuation and diction in general, at least according to the title that the OP chose. That is the perspective I have been taking.

I'll take Aaron's advice and walk away, but I did at least want to try to clear the air because I feel like you took this as a greater offense than I ever intended it.