I want something else, how about you?

I too would like to see more new mass produced 1/48 scale aircraft, I am at the point where I have most everything currently available that I am interested in and am now getting into the limited run brands like LTD,Classic Airframes, Silver Cloud and Strike Eagle. And man are these kits expensive! I would really like to see an A-5 Vigilante and C-46 Commando in 1/48 scale. I think one thing that is hurting the growth of our hobby is the explosion of both die-cast and wood fully assembled and decorated models. People are becoming hooked on the "instant gratification" of opening a box and putting a finished model on the shelf 2 seconds later. I get the feeling we kit buildings types are a dying breed.

Great topic . I have strong slant toward allied A.F.V's. I think that some of the model companies shoud explore the production of some light armor , and transports . How about some comonwelth soft skins or maybe some of the allied payper projets. We must prase and suport companies that give us somthig a little diffrent ie Italeri,ICM,Allan,and Academy. Who have given us good subjects that do not kill your pocket book .

O.K. folks, I've put the invitation to our e-forum out to ten manufacturers from various spots on the globe, keep your fingers crossed.

If this works out well, I'll put out the invitation to more of them.

We may be a dieing breed, I was into my usual shop yesterday after almost a years absence and was shocked to discover the once vast amount of stock had been sequesterd to a small corner and floor level shelving and the space filled with slot cars and action figures, I do hope this is not the trend, Manufacturers pay attention to this!

Instant gratification is a fleeting thing and pales in comparison to siting back remembering every brushstroke and bead of sweet and saying "I did that".

Thats very true, JChurch.

Increasingly, there is a trend toward instant gratification and ready made things in the hobby. I personally dont buy into such things as pre painted kits, thats for lazy people. In North american society it seems that if its not handed to us finished, and complete without any effort from us , then we don't want it. What's with us?! How did we get this way? More importantly, how do we get ourselves out of it?

As far as I'm concerned, to call yourself a hobbyist, you've got to do it yourself. Buy the peices and get them together at your own workbench or it just doesn't count.

People want things, but they don't want to put in the effort.

Lets get back to what the hobby is all about, lets get back to basics. Lets get back to what comes out of the box and what we can make with it without relying so heavily on aftermarket "correction" parts that we could easily acheive the needed correction at a fraction of the cost with a bit of filed sprue or aftermarket styrene shapes.

To make the example, a few years back, I saw a small bit of resin in a bag on my local hobby shop shelf. Apparently it was some sort of "corrected" radar warning antenna for a 1/48 Panavia Tornado. Not long after, I saw the kit it was supposed to "correct". All that was really needed to fix the antenna in the kit was to fill the part with Milliput then file it a bit to proper shape. A fraction of the cost of the resin "correction" part.

Aftermarket is not always the way to go, especially when a bit of ingenuity and basic modeling tools get the job done just as well.

We should not let ourselves be so dependent as we've become on these nice little extras, all it means is that we are really getting spoiled. Sometimes thats not as good a thing as it seems, especially when the most basic modeling skills degrade because of too much resin "corrections" floating around out there.

Give me the kit. My tools and my brain will do the rest

Hello,
Upnorth, I agree. I have noticed this trend for a few years now. To build a model it seemed that one had to have a resin this, or a photoetched that on the kit. Don't get me wrong, it is nice to have this for some projects, i.e. a figure in a certain pose for your 1/35 Panzer diorama. But we were getting away from the basics. A kit out of the box is fine, and work can be done beautifully without a bunch of aftermarket details, or better yet, use your ingenuity to figure out a way to build it yourself. Tha is the way I like to model. I am doing that currently by converting Sci-fi "Krote" from the S.F. 3D/ Maschine Krieger Zbv 3000 series into a variant, the "Kuster" with nothing more than some styrene and whatever else I can get my hands on to make it look right. I could try to find the coinversion kit, but why, when I can do all that I need by myself, with a little ingenuity, spare parts, and some stryrene.
Anybody remember the Basic Techniques<-> Advanced Results section in Finescale Modeler? This was regualr article devoted to what you are talking about, Upnorth: About using simple techniques that any beginning modeler can do, and using it for spectacular results. If any editors are reading this, can you please bring this feature back?
For a while, I remember Finescale Modeler was wandering away from the basics, concentrating instead on the great masters of our hobby. It seemed like the simple ones were being forgotten, and the magazine was more for professionals. I am happy to say that this is all changing. The magazine and its editors are going back to a more simple way, but I hope that they go to show what masterpieces can acheived through simple tools and equipment and a lot of imagination.
However, on the flip side, there is a time when it is nice to have conversion sets when completing radical change to the original model, or the conversion is more difficult that the modeler has skill for. For instance, I am converting a PBY-5A to a -6A variant. There are several differences between the two, but the kit I have chosen already accounts for all but one: the tail. Luckily, a company makes the conversion. I chose this path because it fits into my skill level, and it is a challenge to see if I can sucessfully make the conversion. The difference in the two is that the latter, the robot, I KNOW I can do that. The former, I have never done one before, and like the challenge, not to mention that the variant is not available as a kit, so I have to resort to the conversion to build one.
Really, it is the choice of the modeler.
But my I agree with your original point: let's not get bogged down with all the fancy stuff out there that we are unable to build a model without them, let's stick to the basics and use the aftermarket stuff when necessary. That is where the real fun of the hobby is, how to do what we want without spending a lot of money doing it.

Upnorth,
Forgive my little speil there, but I also wnated to add one other thing in response to one of your previous posts. I have not seen the 2003 great modeling yet, but I look forward to it. It is always an inspiration for me and my modeling to see other modeler's masterpieces.

Upnorth, Reluctant Wanderer,

I get your point here and quite agree. So why don't you do something about it and join us in the 'Community Build Project' thingy..??! Check out posts:

Sticky: Open Challenge to all modelers

Community Build Project F18C

Let's get back to basics and have some fun!

I checked out the community build project and I quite like the idea, though I'll probably have to give the first couple of go rounds a miss as I have some lingering models on my bench to get done and a few things outside of modeling to attend to shortly.

Be assured, whenever the time permits I will certainly participate in such things as that.

I think that idea complements the ideas in this thread quite well. I think that surveys for our "most wanted kit" only go so far in getting things done, there have to be some of us with the drive, tenacity and above all, optimism to pull the hobby out of the rut it gets itself into and do what we can to keep it from going back into it

Heya,

Well, i am only 17and have been modelling for about three years...(still need LOTS of practise) I have other friends around the same age as myself who also enjoy modeling. We don't build that pre-painted 'stuff' but instead try our best at modelling kits made by Tamiya, Acadamey, etc.

Altho you may think that the hobby is dieing, i think it might survive. Everytime i go to my local hobby store its packed full of teenagers and young adults (as well as teh old guys ) who are either buying plastic kits, getting some tools, remote control cars, or getting some advice or something fixed. I thought not many people my age would be interested in things like this, but i was proven wrong.

The hobby is in good hands in my opinion, but only being a newbie i could be wrong

Anyways, cya

Just keeping this close to the top in the forum and keeping my fingers crossed that the manufacturers I've invited will pay us a visit here, and tell us they did. :-)

I saw a Trumpeter ad in the most recent FSM and saw the 1/32 F-105 kits coming out. I've never been much on the looks of the THUD but all I could think is "Finally, someone's done it in 1/32! There's a new vacancy in those "most wanted kit" surveys now. Nobody has to ask for this one again."

If I had one aircraft I would love to see in 1/32, it would have to be the A-7 Corsair II. How the SLUFF avoided coverage in this scale is beyond me, its certainly worthy. Another mystery is how anybody ever got off calling her "ugly" she's a beauty if you ask me. Anybody else for a SLUFF in 1/32?

I think this topic is too importnat to be lingering on page 2 so here's a post to bring it back to the forefront.

Thanks, I've been meaning to keep it up front myself, but this past week at work has been pure Hell so I didn't have a whole lot of energy for it.

I'm still hoping to see some of the manufacturers tell us they were here.

Does anybody know Airfix's e-mail address? I have had no success logging on to their website for the past two weeks and I'd like to invite them here too.

Looks like we may be out of luck on the manufacturers from the first batch of invitations I e-mailed out, so its up to us to keep it going until I can find a minute to send more out.

Anybody else like to put up a discussion topic that relates to this matter that'll keep us near the top of the first page of this list of forums? I'm not running out of ideas myself, but at the same time I don't want to be too selfish in my own concerns. Speak up folks, thats what I started this thread for :-)

Hey, FSM, what do you folks think of whats being said in this thread. Perhaps the manufacturers would be a bit more receptive to visiting us here if you extended an invitation to them on our behalf. I know you're busy and all, but it would be appreciated.

Hi upnorth,

Don't get discouraged. You've got a real winner of an idea here and have done a great job. Rome was not built in a day. It must of taken at least a day and a half. Keep up the good work.

MORE G.A. STUFF PLEASE!!!!!! just in case someone didn't read my post on page one. That's the condensed version.

Darren

Thanks for the good words, Darren.

General Aviation indeed, a very worthy subject.

I'm getting closer to completion on a 1/48 Cessna 172 from Modelcraft straight from the box. There's a couple of contours on it that I'm a touch sceptical about but its been so long since I've been up close to a 172 that I can no longer say for sure so I'm leaving them alone.

One of my recuring answers when someone asks me what I'd like to see in the way of kit subject matter is a 1/48 Piaggio P.180 Avanti (who says general aviation can't be "sexy") that is one drop dead gorgeous bird that should be made into a scale kit.

The small prop birds might not be much for the speed freaks out there, but general aviation has its share of slick performers that could give even the most streamlined fighters a run for the money in the looks department.

Several years ago, Testors released a 1/48 Gates Learjet, I'd have liked to have heared more about it, I never built it so I don't know what sort of kit it is.

A few years back, AMT re-issued Esci's 1/72 civilian Fokker F-27 Friendship. A very nice model all around that I'd love to see come back again.

In the early 1990's Hobbycraft Canada released a 1/72 DeHavilland Canada DHC-8 or the Dash 8 as its better known. The kit was basic by the standards of the day but the representation was most welcome.

If I had a top 10 list of general aviation subjects I'd like to see kitted, It would look like this:

1. Piaggio P.180 Avanti (1/48)
2. British Aerospace 146 (1/48)
3. Letov 410 Turbolet (1/48)
4 civilian Antonov AN-2 "Colt" (1/48)
5. Beech Bonanza (1/48)
6. Beech 17 Staggerwing (1/48 or 1/32)
7. SAAB Safari (1/48)
8. Britten-Norman Tri-Islander (1/48)
9. DeHavilland Canada DHC-6 Twin Otter (1/48)
10. Dornier 228 (1/48)

I'd love to see some of Airfix's "Classic Airliners" series show up on hobby shop shelves around here. I know they're a bit long in the tooth in some cases, but they can be worked with. Years ago I built their 1/144 BAC 1-11 airliner and had a blast with it. It was real simple and I built it like the young lad I was (glue and paint everywhere except where it was supposed to be ) I wish I still had it , but I "flew" it around the house and eventually broke it ( oh for the good old days!) :-)

There's lots of ground to cover in general aviation and I think the hobby is just scratching the surface.

I had that problem... Then I found a shop in a town near here that carries just about everything I could ever want and then some.. This guy has got the most unusual stuff and many discontinued kits.. It's just GREAT!!

There used to be a place like that in my town.

The guy who ran it did all sorts of consignments and collection buy ups, so there was no telling what you could find from one visit to the next. I remember once he had nearly a full quarter of a wall shelf unit filled with nothing but old Heller kits.(Heller kits in general are a tough find around here).

He also had a lot of old Esci and Frog stuff as well. Shops that will do consignments are great. Sometimes someone's getting out of the hobby, sometimes somebody dies and has a lot of unbuilt stuff around so it gets bought up at estate sales. Consignments and liquidations are some of the best places to find those rare and obscure things because you often find them with the original shrink wrap still on them so you know your'e likely getting a complete kit if its so far out of production that you wouldn't stand a chance of being able to obtain replacement parts.

On the matter of seeing some of the older kits come back, I'd love to see some of the old Matchbox kits make a comeback. To my mind they were about the best transition a beginner modeler could have from snap togethers to glue kits, they were basic, quick and easy but still had good accurate outlines. They were little fuss for a good looking model straight from the box. Whichever of you manufacturers has old Matchbox molds on hand, there's at least one modeler out here that would like to see the 1/72 Handley Page Victor and the 1/32 DeHavilland Sea Venom make a return to hobby shop shelves. :-)

Just an update on invitations to our thread here.

I got some extra time today so I sent out a few extra invitations (total now 13). The Airfix site is still not opening, in fact the main Humbrol site and the Heller site are also not accessible for some reason, I hope its only temporary.

In looking around the various manufacturers websites, I can't help but notice that there are indeed a greater variety of injected plastic kits than we ever see on North American shelves. Revell Germany has a very nice selection of some things that, to my knowledge had never been kitted. Revell Germany kits aren't the easiest kits to find around here, but they are easier than some others. The problem is that a lot of their kits that I do see here aren't all that different from anything else on the shelves, mainly just re-issued kits of what Revell-Monogram has already done. Its to my understanding that there's a lot that Revell Germany makes that rarely,if ever, are seen outside the European markets.

I wonder if there's some sort of internal politics to the industry that leads to this sort of situation or if its just a matter of hobby shops stocking up only with what they know is a for certain sale.

Indeed, what really are the factors that lead to what we are and are not easily capable of finding in our respective parts of the world? What determines if we can easily buy a kit at our local hobby shop or if we have to go through the frustrations of special ordering it?

Why are military aviation subjects so abundant on shelves while any degree of civilian aviation is barely visible, if there at all?

Why are Tanks and other gunned treaded vehicles such an easy find, but civilian earth movers are nearly unheard of in injection kits?

What REALLY dictates these things for us? Is it us? Is it the manufacturers? is it the hobby shops buying habits?

Whatever it is, why do we allow our vision and perspective of what this hobby can be and what can be represented in kits be limited by the narrow scope of military hardware above all others. The only other subject matter I see that comes close to military in coverage is automobiles.

All respect to car lovers, but what mystique, what allure does a car that you could see at a parking lot in Anywhereville have over a small light aircraft or short haul airliner gracefully and peacefully plying the sky overhead that cars should get a larger share of the scale plastic than any level of civil aviation gets?

I've said it before, I don't shy away from military subjects in my modeling, but really, even the most hard core military modeler could benefit from a break from the guns and bombs right? Must an aircraft model come with bombs to be sellable? must a vehicle with treads have a gun, large or small, rather than a dozing blade or a backhoe to be sellable?

Are most avenues of civilian vehicle subject, land, sea or air so plain and pedestrian in nature that the must be relagated to high priced,limited run resin and multi media affairs that you have to special order from half way around the world?

If thats what you think, I wish you been to the airshow we had here in Edmonton a year or so ago. If you think a Beech King Air can't be made to look better in a knife edge pass than an A-10, F-117 or an F/A-18, think again! There's a local charter aviation company that operates from our international airport, in the midst of all the millitary jets and sonic booms, they put on a display of their own aircraft. First the King Air, then a Cessna Caravan, they finished it off with a simply mind blowing demonstration of a Fairchild Metro III. NOBODY was bored! In fact there was applause all around, often more than there was for the military performers.

Meanwhile, I continue to move ever toward completion on my 1/48 Cessna 172 and hope it won't be the only 1/48 general aviation subject to grace my display shelf. Its simple and fun, no major fit problems, the only major issue I've run into is a nose weight matter as I'm building a land plane variant of it. Its a welcome break from my 1/48 F-101 Voodoo and 1/32 MiG-21, both of which are real brain workouts for getting right. I've only had to scratchbuild one part for my Cessna and it was a breeze to do.

Thats my rant for today, all input is as always, wanted and welcome :-)

We're in the renaissance of modelling here right now. Quit your complaining!
Who would have thought that 10 years ago Tamiya would make 1/48 aircraft
that you could be built to contest winning models right out of the box. With the
amount of aftermarket supplies right now you can make a model with enough
details that 10 years ago only BOB STEINBRUNN could build!!!! Look in your
old FSM's to see his work.

10 years ago, who would have thought that we would have a 1/72 Tu-95 bear,
20 years ago, who would have thought about the Luftwaffe having more than just
light blue, dark green, and black green. 30 years ago, who would have thought that you could build a model and used decals other than those that came with the kit. 40 years ago, who would have thought that grown men would build something found in the toy aisle of the dime store.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone out there. I see people in the stores that complain
constantly, and I think they have nothing better to do. (I also think that they're the
rivet counters at the model contest.) But like I said before, we're in the middle of
the model's renaissance here. Don't complain, enjoy it.

"NOW SHUT UP AND BUILD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

To each their own I suppose.

I'm no rivet counter myself, and I do concede that the quality of todays kits is generally very high indeed.

My entire point, beyond anything else, is not whats out there, but what isn't out there that could be.

The civilian world of vehicles, land ,sea and air traditionally gets short changed in representation in the hobby.

You can say what you like about the wider variety of Luftwaffe stuff out there, but it doesn't change the fact that when you walk into a hobby shop, you're gennerally drowning in a sea of WWII Germany stuff. Anyone who's been with this thread long enough knows my feelings on the sheer number of ME-109 kits out there, ITS OVERKILL, PLAIN AND SIMPLE! Its not what there is in the kits, its how many kits there are of a subject out there at any one time.

I'm trying to disuade manufacturers from that overkill. Walking into a hobby shop these days can be like re-run season on T.V. it'll drive you nuts if you don't see fresh things with some degree of frequency.

The hobby also needs fresh blood as builders go, the "renaissance" you speak of won't mean a thing if there isn't something in this hobby to bring young people into it . We must scrutinize what is on the shelves and what is not.

So many of the kits today are beautiful, but they are obviously made with the advanced modeler in mind, they are often not something a beginner can handle and thats a big concern in my mind. WHat attraction is there for a young person to join this hobby if the first kit they pick up stops them cold due to its high detail and complexity?

Think about it.

Whats to build when its all teh same...?

I am going for (trying) models that are from my country, but i have to go and spend more money on an out of production 30 year old kit then i would on an up to date standard kit. All i want to see is MORE variety of models in todays standards.

I am only a noobie when it comes to modeling, but am already tired of seeing 109 after 109, or tiger after tiger, or P-51 after P-51...

They are all teh same...wow this one has one little bit more extra detail then the other 4 i built...LETS GET IT.

Now i am not hasseling people who like to build different variants of aircraft...but when there is too much of teh same variants all the time...sorta get boring.

Me, i have to agree with Upnorth, if you have read my posts on here towards teh start, you'll know how i feel about under-representation, as in, models being made of other countires apart from your usual, american, russian germany, or british. Now you'll say, there are ktis of Australian aircraft...and yes there are...but they are either under-detailed, old, or are resin, which i am not capable of building just yet.

i have looked on prime modelling sites, search engines, even posted emails to companies asking if they make a certain model of my interest....and 90 % of the time, its no (other 10 % is yes, but old model)

I'll say this again...all i want is more represnetation of smaller countries in a model of todays standards...& variety

Cya

Thanks for backing me up on that.

I don't mind being disagreed with, but when you do it like a lout with a mile wide chip on your shoulder from who knows where, well don't expect me to give you the satisfaction of seeing me take it personal.

I believe in freedom of speech and opinion, but in civilized conversation, such as these forums, I don't belive such a freedom overides to any degree, the next person's right to etiquite, respect and common courtesy from you.

If your'e going to disagree with me, its not a problem, I can take it. Just please keep your disagreement at a civilized degree. I notice we do have some younger people in these forums who are just starting out, lets give them a good example of the quality of people modelers can be. We're hobbyists, not rugby thugs, right?

Appologies to any rugby playing modelers out there, but most rugby players I know are very well aware of the impression that their sport leaves on the uninitiated. Its the best example I could think of.

Gentlemen

Harsh words indeed that are not needed. If one does not agree with this thread then don't read it. That's all I shall say about that.

Have you noticed the average age of the customer in the hobby shop lately. Not too many that don't have a drivers license thankyou. As a matter of fact, A new shop in my area has a sign on the door that reads: "No one under the age of 13 allowed in with out a parent". I almost walked right back out. What kind of message is this sending. I grew up in a small town that had a great hobby shop. George was a real class act that always made you feel welcome to come in and shoot the breeze. It's obvious that kit manufactures are targeting adults. The prices they fetch for kits is crazy. You can't buy a nice kit with a weeks worth of newspaper deliveries these days. I think the industry is very short sighted in it's marketing. There will be a backlash sooner or later.

One last thing, how will the companies that make the kits know what we want. They won't ask for the most part, so we need to tell them.

Great job UPNORTH!!!

Darren

In reading most of this thread it seems that different is mostly defined as something other than another P-51 or Tiger tank. But still an aircraft or armor subject
It seems to me that there is more variety of military aircraft and Armor kits available than ever, and the future looks bright for even wider variety.
If you really want something different. Take a little excursion to www.playingmantis.com. Once you get there click on the Polar Lights Logo , then click the products tab.
Not many "same old" kits there.

Dave Metzner
Brand Manger
Polar Lights

Thanks for bringing that up, a very good point that we have largely missed with the exeption of my commentary a couple of pages back that I'd like to see a manufacturer take a new shot at the "visible human" type model, except using current medical technology and making them somewhat bigger than the old Revell ones.

Playing Mantis does indeed make some very different model kits, I've not built one, but I've seen their catalog, VERY impresive.

I'd like to note that Polar Lights is one of the companies I have extended an invitation to.

The are by no means the only company giving us something unusual, I'm aware of at least two Heller kits that are larger than life scale models of actual insects, ones an ant and I can't remember what the other one is.

I'd love to see the Bachman bird models come back. I remember going through some old stuff at my grandmother's house when I was young (about 7 I think) and I came across three plastic model birds that my uncles and my mother had built when they were kids. I tried, unsuccesfully, to resurect one of them. I'd love to have a crack at something like that fresh from the box.

Its great when the manufacturers will take thes little ventures into the more esoteric subjects, unfortunately, it hasn't happened often enough in recent years.

Just think how quick a kid with some inclination to be an entomologist when he or she grows up would join the hobby if there was a complete line of affordable, accurate, larger than life scale bugs out there to model.

The manufacturers serve many, but by no means all. AS many as they currently serve, they could have even more. They cant be aiming at the full wallet and big credit card holders all the time.

A few years ago I had to hold a minimum wage job after college to sort of manage my student loan payments until I could find work related to my career. At that time the "Promodeler" line was brand new and the prices of kits were, I would say, skyrocketing. My modeling has never languished to such a degree as it did then. It was then that I learned the true value of liquidation sales and consignment items, they were what kept the hobby going for me at the time as I could not justify a single new kit at the prices they were coming out at.

You could say we are getting what we pay for in the kits these days, but that only really matters if you can pay for them in the first place. There seems to be a closing gap in the price differential, toward the higher end prices, between the high priced multimedia kits and mass produced injection kits.

Thats not going to pull enough new members of the hobby in and may push some long standing members of it out.

Thats a real problem if you ask me, and the manufacturers should take a closer notice. We are their "bread and butter" as the saying goes.

Hey folks.

I have found something new: a 1:48 Vickers Wellington, which is due for release in New Zealand in 3 months. I didn't get a model manufacturer that is bringing it out, but according to my contacts its going tobe here very soon and I cannot wait!
I haven't brought that Me108 that I mentioned at the start of this thread yet, but I do plan to.
Still looking to see where I willbe able to find a Me109B from though.

A few years back, Hobbycraft Canada released a series of ME-109 kits including an earlier model in Spanish Civil War markings. Those kits were 1/48.

A 1/48 Wellington sounds great, and its been something on tyhe most wanted kit surveys for quite sometime. If you find out anything more, make sure to post it here.

I can't believe my "rant" that started this discussion has actually balooned into 5 pages worth of thread.

At two pages I was amazed, at the transition of three to four I was floored, now we're at five, possibly close to six and I'm totally stunned that its gotten this much attention! :-)

I want to take this time to thank you all one again, our representiative from Tamiya particularly, for visiting (and often revisiting) this thread.

Judging by this thread's size in relation to some of the others, I'd have to say my "rant" has become a true forum in its own right.

Thank you everybody! Keep the views coming in and feel free to bring attention to ANY subject matter you would like to see in kit form, things you REALLY want, not just things that are nearly a sure bet for being put into kit form someday.

As unlikely as it may seem, ANYTHING is possible. :-)