I want something else, how about you?

Thanks for joining us here and keeping us going.

I don't delve too much into WWII subject, but your comments on the P-61 paralel my comments on the Spey engine Phantom IIs in as much that even within an established kit subject matter, there is room for more variety.

I wouldn't mind seeing a Gloster Meteor NF.11 in 1/48. Matchbox did one in 1/72 years ago. I could say the same for a Fiat G.91Y in 1/48, there's at least a couple of single engined "Ginas" out there in 1/48, but to my knowledge no two engined ones.

On your comment about tail art, yes I agree with you, some of the former Eastern Block countries and Canada have shown some wonderful examples of this in recent years. I'm currently working on a 1/32 Czech MiG-21 that has a special marking on its tail to commemorate NATOs 50th Anniversary and the Czech Republic's joining of that organization.

Did you see the 1/32 Czech air force MiG-21 in Great Scale Modeling in its three tone splinter camoflage? If thats not the most mind blowing and beautiful splinter job since the SU-27 that the Ukrainians took around the European air show circuit in the early 1990s, I don't know what is.

On the matter of Canadian "colour birds" well, I'm proud to say that the Armed Forces of my country has a long tradition of such airborne artwork dating back to our days with the CF-104 Starfighter and CF-101 Voodoo. I remember attending an airshow in 1982, the CF-18 Hornet was just being brought into service and Voodoos were still a common site at Canadian airshows. Our West coast Voodoo unit (409 "Nighthawk" Squadron) brought in a couple of Voodoos, including their colour bird "Hawk One". Anyone who saw that glossy blue and black Voodoo with the screaming hawks head motif on the fuselage with likely never forget it. It will easily live in my memory as one of my favorite colour birds.

I've nearly got the open invitation to the kit manufacturers ready to go, so it will likely be waiting for them in their e-mail boxes on Monday morning.

Hello everybody!
I have been looking in on your discussion, and I agree, the modeling world is stagnating, with the same subjects being offered over and over again. However, I do enjoy some of the mainstream models, and I enjoy building those, but there are many subjects that I would like to see.
A while back, when accurate miniatures came back briefly as Accurate Hobby Kits, I went to the site, where they had a forum. The subject of the forum was input on the early P-40 they were developing, but soon the postings became a sort of wish list, with a new version of the P-61 being issued in 1/48. However, I would like to see a P-61C, the supercharged Widow.
Like Louis, I am a fan of the flying boats, but they are severly under-represented in the modeling world. Currently I am researching the PBY-6A. I intend to use the Belcher Bits conversion for the Revell-Monogram PBY-5A, but in reasearching I found that the HU-16 Albatross, another search and rescue seaplane which whould have been a contemporary of the PBY for a short time, has the same wingspan as the PBY. I would like to see a version of the HU-16 in 1/48 put side by side with the Catalina as a comparison between the two aircraft, and though the same wingspan and function Post-war, the very different lines that were incorporated between the two. Also, i would like to see an 1/48 Bv-138 in injection molded. True there is a resin version, but like Upnorth, I cannot justify spending the money for just a hobby.
As to other countries being represented, that would be great. The former eastern block countries have some beautiful and interesting tail art on their aircraft. I am thinking of the Former Czechslovokian as shown in World Air Power Journal, Vol. 25, summer 1996. Also, the Canadians have some of the most beautiful aircraft I have seen. On the Belcher Bits site, In their Gallery, their is a gorgeous PBY-5A. Years ago, in FSM, there was a B-25 converted to a transport that had a similiar scheme, and was just as Beautiful. Finally, there we CF-5's shown in the aforemention journal that were jsut as interesting. I would like also to see the U.S. Coast Guard craft represented more, Their mission was important in WWII as well as after. All of these I would like to see represented, and easily accessible, so anybody can model it, without having to spend an exhorbant amount on their hobby.

Thanks Everbody.

Eduard, from the Czech Republic is the manufacturer of the 108.

There is a review of the kit from the July 2002 FSM archived on this site under the "Workbench Reviews" link.

That's interesting, didn't realise there was a 108 around. What is the make of the kit, because I might get down to the local hobby shop and see ifthey can get one in for me at some stage.

Also, on my list, is an Arado 234, in 1:48 of course.

Regards,

Andrew

There is a review of the Taifun that was just published in the last issue of Tamiya Model Magazine International.


Mark

Good list you've got there, despite my aversion to ME-109s, I must concede that it seems the early models of them get about the same short change treatment as Spey engined Phantoms do from manufacturers.

Are you at all familiar with Eduard's Me-108 Taifun in 1/48? Its been out for a couple of years, its a touch pricey, but I've seen whats in the box and I'd have to say your'e getting what you pay for.

I'd put a 1/48 Fairey Firefly on my list. I've seen the Pegaso kit and its a beauty, but I can't justify the cost :-(

I am a big fan of Tamiya's products, I have bought many of their 1:48 aircraft. But I am looking for something different:
Vickers Wellington
Avro Anson
Boeing Stearman
Messerschmitt 108 Taifun
Messerschmitt Me109 B

All in 1:48 scale, and as far as I know, none of them exist?

Filzy, for sure. The He-219 is a great model I hear, and its on my list but it is pricey, but then you get what ya pay for!
Amazing aeroplane in its time too. Anyone hear the story, where one particular He 219 shot down 3 Lancasters and 5 Mosquitos in one air raid in 1944? Had those been in large numbers...

Yes I totally agree with Trumpeters approach to things. I also like a lot of things I see coming out of some of the former Socialist countries in Eastern Europe. I haven't had the pleasure of building Gavia's 1/48 Westland Lysander, but I've seen it built and its a beauty. I also like a lot of what I see coming out of the Czech firms, Bilek and Pavla are real standouts in my opinion. If you want to see some interesting and unusual subject, pay a visit to www.pavlamodels.cz and click on the link to their aircraft models. Its all 1/72, but some real oddities worth looking at are there.

On Bayonet Recon's advice, I am starting to put together a list of manufacturers and composing a decent open invitation for them all to visit us here, read our commentary and let us know what they think

Instead of taking a survey to them, lets bring them to the survey! I think we'll accomplish something really worthwhile if we can close any communication gaps between the manufacurers and the modeling community at large.

With any luck at all, I'll have the invitation out sometime in the next couple of weeks.

Keep your fingers crossed folks :-)

I think competition from Trumpeter will eventually spur the other big name manufacturers to branch out into more subjects so they can maintain their market share.
Trumpeter is making models of subjects never seen before, and I approve.

Mark

Just to add to your comments about the Skink. There were 3 tanks completed all on the M4A1 Sherman Grizzley (Canadian built) and a further 8 conversion kits built before the end of W.W.II. One saw action at the end of W.W.II but not in it's intended role as a self-propelled A.A. gun. It was used for mopping up infantry and proved highly successful. Armed with 4 20mm Polsten guns it was extremely formidible in this previously unthought of role. Only 1 turret is proven to be left in existence at the R.C.A. Museum in Shilo, Manitoba. And a very shot up example it is. Commanders Models used to make a resin kit of this turret but I was recently informed they no longer have the moulds.

H.M. & G.B.
Shermanfreak

Thats a relief! I was hoping we weren't done here.

Both accurate female and civilian figures are a definite need (I'd add a full figure or bust of Valentina Tereshkova to my want list too).

On the Canadian subjects, definitely I'd like to see more. I remember an article in the mid 90s in FSM. Someone built a piece of Canadian armour from WWII called a "Skink" It was an anti aircraft turret on a Sherman hull if I recall correctly. I'd never heard of them before, I think there were only three built, but they were quite effective in use.

Money. Isn't it a factor in everything? I certainly don't expect the manufacturers to loose their shirts on a poor decision of subject matter and I know the research and tooling costs are tremendous, but I'm not asking them to fill an entire catalog with obscure and unknown subjects, just one or two every now and then to test the water.

As I've said before, there is no such thing as standing still, everything is in motion and its either progressing or regressing. I want to see our hobby progressing, if manufacturers throw all their plastic and molds at "old reliable" how much progress is the hobby really making?

Yes the hobby needs new blood at the intake end, but is not getting it. To use the fishing example again: perhaps the hobby needs to look at the bait on its hook, if the current bait isn't getting new bites, try something else. Different fish take to different baits, you have to try.

To upnorth
Just started following this thread, and I must say "kudos" to you for getting a response from the industry in such a short time. Being a fellow Canadian myself, I agree that more attention to accurate representation of Canada (and other countries) military could use some work, I truely enjoyed the Canadian Coyote in the Feb issue FS, it was nice to see a Canadian in the showcase section not just in the gallery, want to see more of that. If the builder Mr. Huot in Quebec is reading this "Proper Job". Here's an idea,- how about a special all Canadian edition showcaseing the great white north, or maybe a subscription discount $85.00 a year is getting hard to justify. But I digress..
There are so many areas that miniture modeling could cover it bogels the mind to ponder, how about some replicas of heavy equipment; cranes, earthmovers, frontend loaders and the like, if anyone has watched "Monster Machines" or "Frontiers of Construction" on TLC (and what man hasn't) I'm sure a few have itched at the idea of having one of these brutes on the shelf. The human body, as you mentioned would be very impressive indeed with new technologies applied, the same as working models, I remember the see-thu engine awhile back, some thing along this line, say a turbine engine perhaps. What about Medievalism? A Trevochay or other form of seige engine would be cool! The real space program could use some improvement as well, Some of the old probes would be real nice, like the Voyager series maybe or the early mars probes, a sputnik would be nice or even an accurate Soyuz Capsule. I know some of these are available from Nasa itself, but I think $1500.00 for a less than accurate ISS, is just plain ridiculous. Getting back to the Canadian aspect I would naturally love to see more Canadian models on the shelf, the F-86 Sabre with the RCAF screamin eagle on the side is an impressive site, or maybe something historical, Wop Mays old Bi-plane I'm sure would be a prideful piece in someones collection, or Billy Bishop our WWI ace, or any of the old Dehavilland line, the Beaver maybe. A CF-100 Canuck, or the C-102 Jetliner, and lets not forget one of the biggest contributions to Canadian Avaition: The CF-105 Avro Arrow (definatly a sad point in our history) a very accurate tribute to this pinnacle of technolgy would be very welcome. How about the Canadair Waterbomber, I understand it has become an aircraft of choice to forest fire fighters around the globe. If you would like to do something truly Canadian, I spent 1979 living in Cold Lake (appropratly named!) Alberta, with the air reserve, due to the constant Maple Flag excersies going on I was fortunate to see fighters from all over the world, but the RCAF have an old C-47 up there that has been modified? The AETE team (Aerospace Engineering Test Establishment) mated it with a nose and pitot tube off an F-104 Starfighter, it is painted in the standard red white and gray of the RCAF right down to the red stripes on the pitot tube, it is appropriatly named "Pinochio".
There... I think I've said my piece, long winded as it is, as an asides, I grew up on Hilarious House of Frightenstien-Billy Van will definetly be missed!
Go Safely All JChurch

Remember Accurate Miniatures? Their business model was based on fulfilling the wishes of avid modelers, at least at first. As you may recall, they are no longer in business, whereas the recyclers of old molds are. The business side of the hobby industry is dollar driven, and without sales, the tremendous capital outlays of injection tooling are hard to recover. There may be some relief for the manufacturers if computer-driven flexible manufacturing techniques come on line, but the capital investment is still astounding, and they will lose their shirt if they only sell a few thousand kits of one subject, unless they raise the unit price enough to cover the cost of short run production, which will further reduce the number of buyers. The hobby needs new blood at the intake end, and it is not getting it.

One suggestion I have is to compile a list of some of the manufacturers you would like to hear from and try to contact them. Let them know about this discussion and invite them to participate.

Alright.......time to make a case for some missed armoured vehicles.....Canadian Armour.

1. Sexton....available on the market in resin form only......why? The Sexton was highly successful and highly used throughout W.W.II and beyond. Many countries were still using them well into the 60's.

2. Ram II....also in resin (never right though).....never used as a gun tank but saw lots of action as Kangaroos & O.P.s. Definitely saw far more action than the Maus or E-100.

3. C.M.P.'s....alright not armour but there were tons and tons and tons of these used everywhere in W.W.II and on. Not just the 2 variations Italeri releases and re-releases every 6 or 8 years.

These are just a few...I could go on with items like the Fox Armoured Car, the Lynx Armoured Car (a Daimler Dingo on steroids), Otter Armoured Car, and the C15 TA (used in Holland until the 60's).

All used in action (somewhat) throughout W.W.II mostly in the E.T.O. but some certainly saw action in the P.T.O. Certainly some off these are worth considering in a good plastic kit.

H.M. & G.B.
Shermanfreak

yah i want some female figures too, but i would like to say we need some civilian figurse too. like a vietnamese figures, more wwII figs then just pharmacist adn doctors adn the 40 fat ladys that verlinden has to offer. also i wnt some vc guys and a whole lot more korean war stuff. it might be the forgotten war, but all ive seen on it was teh decasls for teh tamiya pershing. i am trying to organize an apocalypse now shadowbox, but i need some vc etc and noone has it!!!!!!!!! i was thinking tienimen square but i dont think that tank is out or the figures for it. infact, a whole line of WWII and korean war russians, vietnam civilans and troops, and a bunch of korean war stuff mght do the trick for me. let s not forget the canadians in WWII, i want some of there stuff, even if they did land on dday with horses, i want to see them. i got a book on tanks and there countries with their own tanks youve never even heard of. i want those tanks!!!! ever hear of the AMX 30? the PTURS? T55A with snorkel? limenti Voroshilov!!!!!Daimler Mark Ii bet there arent any Pumas out ther either. wake up call to tamiya, get some!!!! they might be a japanese company, but the russian and fre3nch and other countries companies dont jsut get the same 1/700 waterlines of the japanese if you know waht i mean. oh movie on im going.

Hello?

Don't tell me we're done here on this thread.

Yeah we got the attention of one of the big fish as manufacturers go, and that's great. but is it enough?

That's one fish in a sea of many that we can draw from. I'm grateful for the attention of Tamiya, but what of all the others?

Do we stop at the appetizer and leave the restaurant before main course comes around? No, lets see it all, a bit of everything.

This is like a salmon swimming against the river current. Its going to be difficult, thats a known fact. The river current won't change, but the destination is no less important and there's no other way to it. Its all a matter of how much seeing yourself to that destination means to you.

It means a great deal to me to be able to see the mainstream manufacturers break away a bit from the safety of old reliable subject matter, to test new water, expand the territory. To chance bringing new modelers into the hobby because their favorite subject matter is FINALLY available to them to build in miniature.

This hobby will always need new people joining it to keep it alive, but they have to be attracted to it in some way. There are military modelers all over the place, but war machines aren't to everyone's taste. Car fanatics are also everywhere, but gasoline does'nt run through everyone's veins. There are wingnuts like me who turn to look up whenever they hear a jet or a prop overhead, yet there are others in this world who couldn't care less about aviation.

The long and the short of it, is that while the manufacturers can't possibly serve every subject interest, they can certainly serve more than they have been.

We've got one of them interested in our quest for some change, but we'll need the attention of more of them to make sure that the change is a real possibility.

This thread would have died young if it were not for like minded modelers willing to speak up, I thank all of you who have done so, and sincerely hope that catching the one fish will make you want to help me catch more.

Input and discussion are always needed to keep this thread near the top and noticeable, right where it needs to be, to initiate some change :-)

Lets keep it going!

O.K. folks, I'm going to put another subject matter up, that I think has been sadly neglected.

I'm no politically correct zealot or anything, but how long is it going to take the manufacturers, especially those who deal in figures, to trully recognize the significance of the contributions in WWII by female military members?

I've seen a couple of small scale German field nurses prduced in resin by some garage industry. A few years back, Acurate Miniatures produced a special edition kit of Lilya Litvyak's Yak-1b. Occaisonally Tamiya will include female personel in one of their 1/35 figure sets.

That's about it as far as I know, and as far as I'm concerned, its not enough. Most female figure kits of any sort that I've seen on the market that are of any decent size to work with are the terribly misproportioned "pin up girl" type, that I personaly find just as tired and overdone as ME-109s and Tiger tanks.

I'd love to see some female figurines in 54mm or bigger that represent something real, who's proportions are actually plausible for a real woman and who's poses aren't all sassy and sexy all the time.

I would love to see a 200mm figure of Lilya Litvyak. Even a generic female Soviet Air Force pilot kit would do nicely. As long as she's acurate in uniform details and has plausible body proportions, I'd be happy to add her to my collection.

Think about it folks, Lilya Litvyak was the top scoring female ace of WWII with 12 victories to her credit before she was shot down. Her remains were'nt found until 1979 and she was given a full state funeral. Yet somehow there are male pilots with fewer victories to their credits that we sing more praises of. If every victory counted, then certainly someone like her deserves some decent representation in the figure end of our hobby, don't you think?

Well, there is a ton of models out there featuring creatures and equiptment from the Alien series of films, unfortunately its all fairly high priced vinyl kits made by Horizon or one of the other companies that create vinyl models of various Hollywood creations.

I wouldn't mind modeling some of the characters and vehicles that came from the Mad Max series of films, but I'm not aware of much out there in kit form that covers it.

Ah, well, one more subject matter to add to our collective list of under represented or completely dodged genres in mainstream manufacturers catalogs.

Thanks for bringing it up.

As always, keep the thread alive, keep your ideas and comments coming. We got Tamiya's attention, lets see if we can catch the attention of a few more companies too! :-)

Science Fiction is something that i have seen overlooked, altho i haven't really had anything to do with it. I have only ever seen Startrek and Starwars stuff.

Personally i wouldn't mind modeling a USMC Marine from the Aliens series, or an alien in that matter.

But today, i was looking for a kit, and for once a science fiction subject caught my eye. It was a StarCraft Marine. (StarCraft is an old Sci-Fi strategy game made by Blizzard, for those who don't know)

This kit is made by Academy, so already i knoew it would be a good kit. I am yet to build it, but after going over the pieces, i can see what a good figure its going to torun out to be. Also, with the only part of flesh visible being the face, it is proberly a good kit for beginners, such as me.

i wouldn't mind seing some other vehicles from this game come to the modeling world, not to mention the evil Zerg swarm, or the Elite Protoss.

for sci-fi modellers, if you haven't gotten this, i suggest taking a look, its pretty good, and there is room for improvement, or even, adding your own designes.

Later

Awesome!!!

I knew eventually someone involved with the mainstream manufacturers would have to pick up on this.

Thank you so much for noticing us on this thread and taking the time to respond to us, Eastern Front.

You can be assured that I will be paying a visit to the Tamiya website and putting in my most wanted subject matter for kit development.

Thanks again, so much Eastern Front. I think I speak for everyone on this thread when I say I hope this won't be the only time we hear from you. I think you made the day for all of us here on this thread. :-)

As for the other mainstream manufacturers, take Eastern Front's lead and speak up. We're here, and we're listening.

Last, but certainly not least, all those fellow modelers who have jumped on my bandwagon and participated in this thread, put up with my often long winded contributions to it, THANKS A MILLION! :-)

Keep the comments coming, we finally got the ball rolling to combat some conservatism in kit subject matter, lets keep it rolling now!

See, someone is checking this out. That's good.


Mark

I made this suggestion because I know how frustrating it is to wait for years for a replica of your beloved plane or car...

This is one of the reasons why I decided to come Japan and work for Tamiya.

To make them be more attentive to what modellers want.

By the way If you have any suggestions to improve our web site, just let me know.

Wow! Looks like someone is willing to take the time to listen. I think this shows that through mature discussions and a little patience, people will listen.

Eastern Front - It's good to see that someone from Tamiya is here responding to the discussion. I think it's great you took the time to respond to the discussion and also for letting us know how to make suggestions. Thank you! Keep us updated, if you can, on how the response is.

upnorth - Good discussion. Looks like your efforts are producing results. Keep up the good work!

Hello everyone

All your observations are very interesting.
I am in the modeling business and I have been modeling planes for about 15 years now. I also wrote articles for various European magazines. I am currently working for Tamiya in Japan.
I think that the best thing to do is to let us know exactly which kits you'd like to see developed.
The best way to contact us is by clicking the following link.

http://www.tamiya.com/english/mail/qe_form.htm

This link will lead you to a form.
Please fill it in. We will only consider mails correctly filled in (regarding name, country and e-mail address).
As a subject write "Most wanted kits FS" and in contents, please rate your most wanted kits. These kits must be the one you would like to see made, not the one you think will be bestsellers. Try not to mix various categories (planes, cars, tanks...). If you wish kits from various categories, please make separate lists.
We also ask you to refrain from sending several times the same mail or using a faulse name.
It is your interest to follow these few rules if you want to help us the best we can

We already have some e-mails coming from various part of the world but the most suggestions we receive the most accurate the results will be. So, Just tell all your friends to send us their suggestions.

Thank you for your help.

I've run into that situation a few times myself and its no end of frustration.

What really burns me is when two companies work closely with each other and borrow, or buy, each other's molds and release on of the companies old kits under the other company's name. In my first posting, I mentioned a 1/48 F-5 in an Italeri box and almost bought it until I found out it was a 15 to 20 year old Esci kit in a new box.

Its different if a company comes into the possesion of mold from a company thats out of the business, I understand Revell-Germany is in possession of most of the old Matchbox molds and a lot of old Frog molds ended up in Eastern European hands. Its good to see kits you thought were gone forever come back once in a while.

We're not obligated to buy the kits, we're in this hobby because we choose to be. If a company is going to release some other company's kit, how difficult would it be to make the origin of the source molds a bit more obvious on the packaging. It may just be me, but I value my money and with the price some kits are commanding these days, I like to know what my money is getting me into before I give it to the guy or gal at the till.

you pretty well hit that one right on the nose. recently i purchased a morane 406 and a 410 that were exactly the same model. i realize they are very close, but i don't think its fair to sell the precisely same kit under two different model types.

A fair point to make too!

Lots of nations get short changed when it comes to having their hardware represented in model kits. For a lot of things we often have to look at aftermarket decals at least, if not some sort of major surgery to the model to highlight some sort of unique equipment that was used by only one nation that operated that particular vehicle, ship or aircraft.

A good case in point would be the Dackleton (yes, it is or was areal aircraft). It's a specially modified DC-3 Dakota used exclusively by the South African Air Force for anti-submarine work and costal patrol duties. It came into being when South Africa could no longer procure spare parts to keep its fleet of Shackleton MR.3s going. I don't know what all was done to modify them, but the most obvious external difference was the replacement of the radial piston engines with modern turbo props.

That would take a lot of work to get those modifications done, but even the more tame modifications have at times been difficult to come by:

When Canada recieved its first CF-18 Hornets in 1982, there wasn't a hornet kit on the market that featured the high power spotlight just under the cockpit on the left side of the aircraft for idendifying aircraft on night intercepts. This spot light was, and still is unique to the Canadian hornets. Its easy enough to put one into a kit that doesn't feature it, but it took a while before some manufacturers actualy started including it as an option in their kits.

Yeah, its tough getting your hardware represented in kits when you're not a big superpower.

Oh, What I wouldn't do for totally new kits of the Avro Arrow and CF-100 Canuck in 1/48 scale. A 1/72 Canadair CP-107 Argus patrol aircraft would also be nice, but highly unlikely as she's been gone from service for so long :-(

Keep it coming folks!