a question i know is going to get blocked

Hello!

Do you mean the Hackenkreuz? What country do you live in?

Good luck with your projects and have a nice day

Paweł

Humper, I know exactly what you mean and it's a very interesting question; one I hadn't anticipated with all the uproar going on now.  All I can say is that, even though I don't build cars, I'm thinking of going out and buying the "General Lee" kit before they get pulled from the shelves for any reason.

Pawel, I'm not sure how much U.S. news filters to the Polish region but Humper is talking about the recent events revolving around racial issues here in the U.S.  In many southern states, the Confederate battle flag (also known as the "Stars and Bars") has historical roots.  Depending on your view of it, to some it represents a culture in the Southern way of life while to others it represents a racist past which (they say) is being kept alive through its modern day use.

I don't know the EXACT details but I've heard that several localities have already removed the flag from use and I think even several manufacturers of the flag have stated that they will stop producing it.  Warner Brothers, an American entertainment company, has announced that it will no longer license the use of the "General Lee" car.  The General Lee was the name given to the car in a popular TV show from the early 1980s called "The Dukes of Hazzard".  (General Robert E. Lee was the commanding General in charge of all Confederate forces during the American Civil War.)  The General Lee had the painting of a giant Confederate flag on the roof of the car and was very prominent and was basically the identifying feature of the car.  It actually looked really neat especially painted on the top of an orange American muscle car.  If you do an internet search for "The General Lee" or "The Dukes of Hazzard", you'll see what I mean.

Anyway, that's the basic gist of what's going on.  I tried to explain things without getting too political.  I've always found it fascinating to learn about different cultures from around the world and I hope I've given a little insight of it to you and other members outside the U.S..  What I've described has barely scratched the surface.

Eric

Hello Eric!

I live in Poland, but I also find it fascinating about different cultures and in the course of researching my Subject - the war in Vietnam - I learned a lot about the American culture. So although I didn't watch "The Dukes Of Hazzard" I know the image of "General Lee" pretty well.

I also agree with you, that the car looks nice, but I kinda understand the view of the opponents.

If that machine was, say a historical fighter plane, then I'd say we should reproduce it in every faithful detail. But the car we're talking about was built for entertainment - so many people view it as a toy - that's a problem many modellers have. And we have certain ideas about what symbols are appropriate for a toy.

I could write much more here, but that would be politics, so...

Humper - If you're OK with the Stars & Bars, draw it in CorelDraw! and have it printed by one of the many custom decal companies - here you go! You're still iving in a free country and what you do at home is your business. Good luck with your project and have a nice day!

Paweł

The Confederate battle flag and the Stars and Bars are two different flags.  Stars and bars flew as the national flag of the Confederate States, and the battle flag is what the Confederate army carried.  And actually, shows how ignorant to history people are, the flag they are always showing right now on news and calling it the Confederate battle flag is not the battle flag but rather the Confederate naval jack.

Since nobody's talking about banning any decals at this point, I'd say you're either worrying about nothing or trying to stir something up. And I'm a bit surprised that this hasn't been caught by the moderators yet.

There was just a story this morning that Amazon.com has stopped selling confederate flags, so that could be what he's referencing.

Too late on grabbing a "Lee" charger unless it is at a LHS.  Wally has already yanked them.  and the license has been pulled by the toy maker that allowed the model kit.  Went to get one last night for the stash, and too late.

This is just like NASCAR models from back a few years ago when they did away with the beer logos because it pushed drinking on kids.

I defer to Spitfire's knowledge of the flag's history and nomenclature and I apologize for my mangling of my information.  But it does raise an excellent point in that people with improper knowledge (such as myself) can be a dangerous thing unless they become educated.

I don't think Humper is worrying about nothing.  It's scary to see how the civil discourse can filter from one extreme to another.  By that I mean one day they're taking down flags from buildings and pulling down statures and the next day toys are being pulled from shelves.  I'm not saying they are but I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility.  When/where will it end?  Why wouldn't decal manufacturers and model makers be outside the cross hairs?  If swastikas and symbols of the Confederacy are held in the same regard, then it's only a matter of time before the use of the 2nd Confederate Navy Jack or the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia is banned. 

I wonder how long it'll be before Stone Mountain is demolished.

Eric

I'm going on a limb here with an open mind and I feel I'm an intelligent man to speak my mind without starting a firestorm on a hot subject.

Personally, everyone who grew up in the 80s watching The Dukes of Hazzard always dreamed of building the General Lee. I, for one did buy the famed General Lee model kit when it came out. It's a fun show filled with action and comedy. It's  a FAMILY show and there's nothing racists about that show. Just a couple of "good ol' boys meaning no harm" and having fun. I will buy another in a heartbeat. Come on, it's an icon from the show. Do you see kit manufacturers running to ban Luftwaffe aircraft with swasikas or German crosses on aircraft and armor?

It's a part of our history's past and unfortunately, there are some that still have their own beliefs. What's next? Banning the sales of The Dukes of Hazzard television series at Walmart? Give me a break. Sadly, racism and the KKK, Skinheads and who knows what else is out there is here to stay whether we like it or not. Banning the Confederate flag is not going to solve or end the hate.

Just to be clear, I could care less what they do. In reality, the whole world has gone too politically correct on far too many issues. Is it going to solve and end the problem? Not by a long shot.

Folks need to find better issues to deal with like helping the homelessness, feeding the poor and balancing the budget. Deal with real life issues, not on the Stars and Bars because of some demented mad men going rogue.

Sorry,  but it's a long way from taking down what many consider a symbol of the twin causes of slavery and racial oppression from over a public building and banning decals because of their subject matter (which, I remind you, nobody has yet suggested in the reality based world). That said, I'm done with this conversation. I have actual modeling to do.

I agree BLACKSMITHN.

There are two sayings in which I firmly believe.  One is "Never underestimate the stupidity of the masses" and "If the mind can think it, then it's possible."  I feel the two go hand in hand.  Now the topic of conversation out in the reality-based world is the banning of "Gone With the Wind".  If you can think it, no matter how implausible it could or should be, it is possible especially if the mob mentality takes hold.

To use some more cliches, "The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step".  In this case, while the banning of the flag's use on decals is a long way from banning the flag's use on building, it's definitely a step heading in that direction.

Eric

Hey Eric, no apology necessary.  I liked your post, I was just trying to point out a technical point of accuracy.  We've been dealing with this sort of lunacy in my neck of the woods the last few years, you've probably heard the whole mess about changing the name of the Redskins.  This whole mess needs to stop.  I can guarantee most of these people calling for banning stuff couldn't tell you much about the civil war at all, hence the distortion of truth.

Spitfire, I grew up in Springfield and Alexandria and cheered for my beloved Redskins during the Joe Theismann years until I moved when Gus Frerotte was at the helm.  I'll bet I'm the only person in the state of Wisconsin who has a Jay Schroeder poster in his hobby room!  LOL!

Eric

cs.finescale.com/.../166066.aspx

What part of Aaron's request is unclear to you guys?

Or do you just not care...

Option 2:  I didn't see it.

Eric

Did ole Gus drive you out of town?  As you probably know, they haven't had a QB since Theismann.  Have they converted you to a Packer fan up there yet?

I'd certainly put Doug Williams in there. Won a Super Bowl!

When I was a kid, I lived in Green Bay before moving to VA.  I basically have two favorite football teams:  The Packers and the Redskins.  I moved back to Green Bay to go to college and then I stayed up here because I got engaged and then married.  Been here ever since.  I've been going through a feast with the Packers and a famine with the Redskins.  LOL!  I still wear my Redskins sweatshirt around town and I think people feel sorry for me when they see it.

How I miss the days of Joe Theismann, Riggo, Russ Grimm, Charles Mann, Art Monk, Darrell Greene, Joe Jacoby, et al.  That was back in the days of real smashmouth football.  Doug Williams was also great and I was a big Mark Rypien fan as well.  Things seemed to falter after that, sadly.

Go Packers and HTTR ("Hail to the Redskins" for those of you not in the know.)

Eric

I can't say I have ever had to buy AM decals for my German armour builds. The black cross is not a problem, if it was, the German army would not use it today. The only marking that is an issue is the swastika and that is only because of the laws of a few European nations. And in fact in the last few years I have seen it come back in some kits, either in parts or complete.

I don't think this is anything to worry about to much, at least not yet.

You all noticed the July cover of FSM, right? Up at the top of the page. There is a very good Wiki page about the swastika, if you care to read about the ban.

I guess I should have said that they haven't had consistently good QB play since Theismann.  Williams and Rypien did have a couple really good seasons in there.

GMorrison - this thread didn't get out of control. Actually it's been surprisingly calm despite the issue at hand. A lot of intelligent responses worth noting without it getting totally out of control.

History is history. I don't get into it anymore deeply than that with my modelling. Freedom of expression. I wish that was more respected, but I digress and stay Apolitical.

Still, I plan on buying some sheets of hakenkreuz .. just in case.

I'm curious what kind of impact this will have o reenactors ? It's like deleting a slice of history.

Raualduke

I'm curious what kind of impact this will have o reenactors ? It's like deleting a slice of history.

There are plenty of 3rd Reich reenactors, so why should it have any.

I knew a Native fellow (I live in Oregon and we have a lot of  Tribal heritage around here.  Umpqua, Siuslaw, Sieltz, Umatila, etc) and he liked the Washington because of their name.  He never could figure out why it was upsetting to people.  

Raualduke

I'm curious what kind of impact this will have o reenactors ? It's like deleting a slice of history.

And no Raualduke, the history is still there. (deleted)

CodyJ

I knew a Native fellow (I live in Oregon and we have a lot of  Tribal heritage around here.  Umpqua, Siuslaw, Sieltz, Umatila, etc) and he liked the Washington because of their name.  He never could figure out why it was upsetting to people.