a question i know is going to get blocked

Not for nothing, guys, but I asked respectfully that this topic not be brought up. Despite some qualifications that this is not about politics, it is straying that way in couched terms. The conversation is now locked.

Aaron

This current brouhaha is just going to make certain items harder to acquire to one degree or another. Certain mainstream retailers and marketing mediums will no longer carry items with the symbol in question. That just means that consumers who want those items with that insignia will have to spend their money elsewhere. Somebody will still supply the merchandise. News reports are that the folks who still are selling such have seen an upswing in sales. They are not, and in the USA can not be, legally banned. As long as there is money to be made, somebody will provide the product. This will die down within a reasonably short timespan most likely. Society as a whole has a short attention span. Some new cause celebre of the moment will emerge to take its' place soon enough.

HUMPER this is a good discussion.  Similar to the one a while back about building Chicom, WW2 Japanese etc. I build what i like and i buy flags associated with those builds for display purposes. Just because someone builds a 1/72 U boat and has a German Naval ensign flying on it doesn't make them a nazi. I think the modeling community will weather this tempest; some folks will pay a bit more for something, some will make a small profit.

Like you i am not posting how i really feel about this insanity.

CodyJ

I knew a Native fellow (I live in Oregon and we have a lot of  Tribal heritage around here.  Umpqua, Siuslaw, Sieltz, Umatila, etc) and he liked the Washington because of their name.  He never could figure out why it was upsetting to people.  

Raualduke

I'm curious what kind of impact this will have o reenactors ? It's like deleting a slice of history.

And no Raualduke, the history is still there. (deleted)

I knew a Native fellow (I live in Oregon and we have a lot of  Tribal heritage around here.  Umpqua, Siuslaw, Sieltz, Umatila, etc) and he liked the Washington because of their name.  He never could figure out why it was upsetting to people.  

Raualduke

I'm curious what kind of impact this will have o reenactors ? It's like deleting a slice of history.

There are plenty of 3rd Reich reenactors, so why should it have any.

I'm curious what kind of impact this will have o reenactors ? It's like deleting a slice of history.

History is history. I don't get into it anymore deeply than that with my modelling. Freedom of expression. I wish that was more respected, but I digress and stay Apolitical.

Still, I plan on buying some sheets of hakenkreuz .. just in case.

GMorrison - this thread didn't get out of control. Actually it's been surprisingly calm despite the issue at hand. A lot of intelligent responses worth noting without it getting totally out of control.

I guess I should have said that they haven't had consistently good QB play since Theismann.  Williams and Rypien did have a couple really good seasons in there.

You all noticed the July cover of FSM, right? Up at the top of the page. There is a very good Wiki page about the swastika, if you care to read about the ban.

I can't say I have ever had to buy AM decals for my German armour builds. The black cross is not a problem, if it was, the German army would not use it today. The only marking that is an issue is the swastika and that is only because of the laws of a few European nations. And in fact in the last few years I have seen it come back in some kits, either in parts or complete.

I don't think this is anything to worry about to much, at least not yet.

When I was a kid, I lived in Green Bay before moving to VA.  I basically have two favorite football teams:  The Packers and the Redskins.  I moved back to Green Bay to go to college and then I stayed up here because I got engaged and then married.  Been here ever since.  I've been going through a feast with the Packers and a famine with the Redskins.  LOL!  I still wear my Redskins sweatshirt around town and I think people feel sorry for me when they see it.

How I miss the days of Joe Theismann, Riggo, Russ Grimm, Charles Mann, Art Monk, Darrell Greene, Joe Jacoby, et al.  That was back in the days of real smashmouth football.  Doug Williams was also great and I was a big Mark Rypien fan as well.  Things seemed to falter after that, sadly.

Go Packers and HTTR ("Hail to the Redskins" for those of you not in the know.)

Eric

I'd certainly put Doug Williams in there. Won a Super Bowl!

Did ole Gus drive you out of town?  As you probably know, they haven't had a QB since Theismann.  Have they converted you to a Packer fan up there yet?

Option 2:  I didn't see it.

Eric

cs.finescale.com/.../166066.aspx

What part of Aaron's request is unclear to you guys?

Or do you just not care...

Spitfire, I grew up in Springfield and Alexandria and cheered for my beloved Redskins during the Joe Theismann years until I moved when Gus Frerotte was at the helm.  I'll bet I'm the only person in the state of Wisconsin who has a Jay Schroeder poster in his hobby room!  LOL!

Eric

Hey Eric, no apology necessary.  I liked your post, I was just trying to point out a technical point of accuracy.  We've been dealing with this sort of lunacy in my neck of the woods the last few years, you've probably heard the whole mess about changing the name of the Redskins.  This whole mess needs to stop.  I can guarantee most of these people calling for banning stuff couldn't tell you much about the civil war at all, hence the distortion of truth.

There are two sayings in which I firmly believe.  One is "Never underestimate the stupidity of the masses" and "If the mind can think it, then it's possible."  I feel the two go hand in hand.  Now the topic of conversation out in the reality-based world is the banning of "Gone With the Wind".  If you can think it, no matter how implausible it could or should be, it is possible especially if the mob mentality takes hold.

To use some more cliches, "The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step".  In this case, while the banning of the flag's use on decals is a long way from banning the flag's use on building, it's definitely a step heading in that direction.

Eric

I agree BLACKSMITHN.

Sorry,  but it's a long way from taking down what many consider a symbol of the twin causes of slavery and racial oppression from over a public building and banning decals because of their subject matter (which, I remind you, nobody has yet suggested in the reality based world). That said, I'm done with this conversation. I have actual modeling to do.

I'm going on a limb here with an open mind and I feel I'm an intelligent man to speak my mind without starting a firestorm on a hot subject.

Personally, everyone who grew up in the 80s watching The Dukes of Hazzard always dreamed of building the General Lee. I, for one did buy the famed General Lee model kit when it came out. It's a fun show filled with action and comedy. It's  a FAMILY show and there's nothing racists about that show. Just a couple of "good ol' boys meaning no harm" and having fun. I will buy another in a heartbeat. Come on, it's an icon from the show. Do you see kit manufacturers running to ban Luftwaffe aircraft with swasikas or German crosses on aircraft and armor?

It's a part of our history's past and unfortunately, there are some that still have their own beliefs. What's next? Banning the sales of The Dukes of Hazzard television series at Walmart? Give me a break. Sadly, racism and the KKK, Skinheads and who knows what else is out there is here to stay whether we like it or not. Banning the Confederate flag is not going to solve or end the hate.

Just to be clear, I could care less what they do. In reality, the whole world has gone too politically correct on far too many issues. Is it going to solve and end the problem? Not by a long shot.

Folks need to find better issues to deal with like helping the homelessness, feeding the poor and balancing the budget. Deal with real life issues, not on the Stars and Bars because of some demented mad men going rogue.

I defer to Spitfire's knowledge of the flag's history and nomenclature and I apologize for my mangling of my information.  But it does raise an excellent point in that people with improper knowledge (such as myself) can be a dangerous thing unless they become educated.

I don't think Humper is worrying about nothing.  It's scary to see how the civil discourse can filter from one extreme to another.  By that I mean one day they're taking down flags from buildings and pulling down statures and the next day toys are being pulled from shelves.  I'm not saying they are but I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility.  When/where will it end?  Why wouldn't decal manufacturers and model makers be outside the cross hairs?  If swastikas and symbols of the Confederacy are held in the same regard, then it's only a matter of time before the use of the 2nd Confederate Navy Jack or the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia is banned. 

I wonder how long it'll be before Stone Mountain is demolished.

Eric

Too late on grabbing a "Lee" charger unless it is at a LHS.  Wally has already yanked them.  and the license has been pulled by the toy maker that allowed the model kit.  Went to get one last night for the stash, and too late.

This is just like NASCAR models from back a few years ago when they did away with the beer logos because it pushed drinking on kids.

There was just a story this morning that Amazon.com has stopped selling confederate flags, so that could be what he's referencing.

Since nobody's talking about banning any decals at this point, I'd say you're either worrying about nothing or trying to stir something up. And I'm a bit surprised that this hasn't been caught by the moderators yet.

The Confederate battle flag and the Stars and Bars are two different flags.  Stars and bars flew as the national flag of the Confederate States, and the battle flag is what the Confederate army carried.  And actually, shows how ignorant to history people are, the flag they are always showing right now on news and calling it the Confederate battle flag is not the battle flag but rather the Confederate naval jack.