Political Correctness in Modeling

Pawel

I'm not denying anybody their personal tragedy or the strong feelings they might have. At the same time I feel we should work for more freedom and understanding, and so we shouldn't scald other people, if they don't harm others, even if we don't like the aesthetics of what they do. I can understand tha gentleman who had a problem with TBs work, but I wouldn't call his actions "right".

Thanks for reading and have a nice day

Paweł

 

And he could have phrased things a little differently, like when he wrote that the survivor(s) had a "hissy fit". 

But let's not start a witch hunt over this...I know how easy it is (especially on forums) to start a big snowball of cyber-anger going. I'd like to continue talking about this, but let's not turn TB into Adolf Hitler while we're at it.

BlackSheepTwoOneFour

So a "if you don't like it, don't look at it" approach doesn't fly in the eyes of a Holocaust survivor - especially in a JCC.

 

BTW, where and when did you hear this guest speaker?

I heard this story and I can't blame the Holocaust survivor being offended. Have you ever attended a talk where a guest feature is a Holocaust survivor? I have. Pretty powerful stuff of the horrors they saw and went through. You can see the pain in their eyes and voices as they talk about it.

I think everyone should get an opportunity to listen to a Holocaust survivor guest speaker.

So a "if you don't like it, don't look at it" approach doesn't fly in the eyes of a Holocaust survivor - especially in a JCC.

Hello!

I'd also like to hear more about TB's adventure at the JCC. While I agree, that an outcome like this could have been expected, I really can't appreciate the thinking behind "being offended". Like I wrote before, I'm a strong supporter of the "If you don't like it, don't look" approach. Then, if I had a war-related trauma, would I want to see a model contest - that is if I knew models of military related subjects are the majority?

I'm not denying anybody their personal tragedy or the strong feelings they might have. At the same time I feel we should work for more freedom and understanding, and so we shouldn't scald other people, if they don't harm others, even if we don't like the aesthetics of what they do. I can understand tha gentleman who had a problem with TBs work, but I wouldn't call his actions "right".

Thanks for reading and have a nice day

Paweł

The former president of our local IPMS chapter (and an office older with IPMS/USA) ran a hobby shop faily close to Tamiya USA'a HQ in Aliso Viejo and a while back Mr Tamiya himself came to visit the shop due to a number of factors, including the ones that I mentioned. During the conversation between the two gentlemen,, as it was relayed to me, the question of Tamiya making a B-29 kit was raised. Mr Tamiya said that his company would never produce a kit of the B-29. Considering the relation of his homeland and the B-29 I can understand his sentiment completely.

Not PC at all in my view. Simply a position that is quite easy to understand.

More Beer!

mustang1989

 

 

GMorrison

You took an FW-190 model to a JCC?

Really?

And you are surprised about the reaction you got?

Listen, about this PC nonsence, the problem is that the PC tends to usually be C.

 

 

 

 

I just read this part. Yeah that is gutsy.....

 

 

So I gave it more thought, and yes I can think of a time in my life where I was sort of drenched in an unrealistic view of the world, by my mother. As a kid, I wanted to model Spitfires, Thunderbolts, Mustangs, Corsairs etc. Every Christmas I got Sealabs. Wright Flyers, DC-7s.

I think she meant well, and was trying to focus me on non-violent things, but as a parent I never put those kinds of limitations on my own child's interests.

GMorrison

You took an FW-190 model to a JCC?

Really?

And you are surprised about the reaction you got?

Listen, about this PC nonsence, the problem is that the PC tends to usually be C.

 

modelcrazy

 

 

modelcrazy

I have been following this thread and its twists and turns from the start. TB's experience brings a question to my mind. While to some of the Allies, German or Japanese or even Italian subjects may be sensitive (not to me), is a replica of a Lancaster or B-17 touchy to a German audience or Enola Gay/Bockscar sensitive to a Japanese audience?

Steve

Don't display a B-17 at a Dresden survivor's reunion. 

GMorrison

You took an FW-190 model to a JCC?

Really?

And you are surprised about the reaction you got?

I know...

GMorrison

Listen, about this PC nonsence, the problem is that the PC tends to usually be C.

 

Sometimes true, it really depends on the situation. I think the distinction between politically and socially correct is an important one. When there are real people who should be offended, and honest people who care, that's socially correct. When it's a real or fake grievance that has been kept alive way past the time it should have faded, for the use of politicos and people who want to avoid logical debates, then that is politically correct.

You took an FW-190 model to a JCC?

Really?

And you are surprised about the reaction you got?

Listen, about this PC nonsence, the problem is that the PC tends to usually be C.

modelcrazy

I have been following this thread and its twists and turns from the start. TB's experience brings a question to my mind. While to some of the Allies, German or Japanese or even Italian subjects may be sensitive (not to me), is a replica of a Lancaster or B-17 touchy to a German audience or Enola Gay/Bockscar sensitive to a Japanese audience?

Steve

 

If it was and they complained, no doubt they would be told tough. And something along the lines of they started the war, so they should get over it.

But i wounder, TB, what would you have done if those guys had been Palistinan and your subject Israeli. Or if you had built some late 19th century US cavalry and those gentelman had been native Americans. The list is endless.

Tanks, I gather you are making a distinction between this "PC" idea and true emotion. As far as still being hurt, with all due respect, get past it.

tankerbuilder

Ahh;

    I had my experience many years ago . I have mentioned it on this site . My Bismark and 'Butcher Bird" and a Jewish Community Center .

 It took me a long time to get over the ensuing personal scene that took place that day . Seems the venue was Jewish owned and three of the folks ( older ones , I might add ) were looking at the models and came to my models and had a gigantic hissy fit .

 Well, although miffed I removed the models from the competition because I noticed something on the arm of one of the complainers . You know of what I speak .

 You see , the emotional reverberations of that experience would cause anyone trauma of an emotional nature . Personally , I have had my own , so I then understood . I still hurt from having to withdraw over half of what I had on display and two items I had in competition .

 That said , P.C. bothers me  " Lest we Forget "               T.B.

 

 

That sounds more like the "social correctness" mentioned before. Now, in my humble opinion "SC" is not really an issue or a problem. It was nice of you to concede to their wishes, especially given what at least one of the complainers had to go through. I have no problem building models with swastikas, but I would hate for someone with his/her experiences to see it. Victims being emotionally affected by items associated with their attackers is one thing...if the media locked on to building WWII German models in general, that would be PC. What murph talks about would be PC. What you talk about would not. 

Could you give some more background about the incident though? Do you mean that there was a model competition at a JCC, and you actually brought a F.W. 190 with (I assume) a dorsal tail swastika? 

I've never been the victim of political correctness relating to any of my builds that I'm aware of.  The only things that I've built that could be a target of PC thinking is anything related to the RCAF's 421 (Red Indian) and 422 (Tomahawk) squadrons, both now inactive.  The term Canuck is actually considered offensive to some Canadians but we proudly nicknamed our Canadian designed and built all weather interceptor, the CF-100, the Canuck.

Other RCAF squadrons with nicknames that might be considered derogatory to Canada's native people are 426 (Thunderbird) and 431 (Iroqouis) squadrons.  426 is currently active at 8 Wing and 431 is the world famous Snowbirds.  All four of these squadrons have had a long and distinguished history and service with the RCAF and I'm not aware of any indiginus people being offended by these nicknames.  As a matter of fact, because of their history in the face of advesity, the indiginous people might consider and associate with these squadron nicknames as a badge of honour.

As for those who would poo-pooh a model, display, diorama, etc in the name or political correctness, I feel sorry for them.  They're blind, wilfully or otherwise, to history.  They are only displaying their own ignorance with their comments.  If someobdy wants to badmouth one of my 421 or 422 Sqn aircraft in the name of political correctness, have at it.  You will not bother me one bit.  I choose to remember and honour history.  I may not agree with what some combattants did but what's done is done.

I have always liked this saying:

Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Ahh;

    I had my experience many years ago . I have mentioned it on this site . My Bismark and 'Butcher Bird" and a Jewish Community Center .

 It took me a long time to get over the ensuing personal scene that took place that day . Seems the venue was Jewish owned and three of the folks ( older ones , I might add ) were looking at the models and came to my models and had a gigantic hissy fit .

 Well, although miffed I removed the models from the competition because I noticed something on the arm of one of the complainers . You know of what I speak .

 You see , the emotional reverberations of that experience would cause anyone trauma of an emotional nature . Personally , I have had my own , so I then understood . I still hurt from having to withdraw over half of what I had on display and two items I had in competition .

 That said , P.C. bothers me  " Lest we Forget "               T.B.

No comments for over 1 minute...my crassness has silenced the forums. I hear the ban hammer being raised  

EDIT: never mind lol.

Moff

 

GMorrison

 

 

Moff

Nothing's wrong with gratuitous cat memes! It was more of a challenge than anything else.

Can I prove one of the corollaries of Godwin's Law? That being that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a meme involving *** or Hitler approaches 1"? 

 

 

 

 

Isn't that what started this whole fiasco? Moff, for a new guy you are learning fast!

 

 

 

 

 

I'll take that as a yes to my question:  

 

Was that too politically incorrect? 

 

 

Now thats funny.

GMorrison

 

 

Moff

Nothing's wrong with gratuitous cat memes! It was more of a challenge than anything else.

Can I prove one of the corollaries of Godwin's Law? That being that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a meme involving *** or Hitler approaches 1"? 

 

 

 

 

Isn't that what started this whole fiasco? Moff, for a new guy you are learning fast!

 

 

Was that too politically incorrect? 

Couldn't...help myself...

Moff

Nothing's wrong with gratuitous cat memes! It was more of a challenge than anything else.

Can I prove one of the corollaries of Godwin's Law? That being that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a meme involving *** or Hitler approaches 1"? 

 

Or Nick Nolte

Nothing's wrong with gratuitous cat memes! It was more of a challenge than anything else.

Can I prove one of the corollaries of Godwin's Law? That being that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a meme involving *** or Hitler approaches 1"? 

I'd like to know if Mike Godwin is six or fewer acquaintance links apart from actor Kevin Bacon............ 

Moff

The Internet has finally invaded FSM. When will the gratuitous cat memes arrive? 

BTW, this thread reminds me of Godwin's Law:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law 

 

Wht'a wrong with gratuitous cat memes?

Pawel

Panzerkampfwagen :-)

bestimmt ! 

The Internet has finally invaded FSM. When will the gratuitous cat memes arrive? 

BTW, this thread reminds me of Godwin's Law:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law 

Götterdämmerung!

See? German is perfect for one word posts.

Have a nice thread :-)))

Paweł