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Mig, AK and other similar products

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  • Member since
    February 2012
  • From: Olmsted Township, Ohio
Posted by lawdog114 on Monday, July 29, 2019 2:09 AM

MJames70
Things may change, but there are always old cranks telling you how much better and rougher it was in their day, as they wait for the milkman and iceman to stop by...
 

Uphill in the snow..........both ways boy!   Wink

 "Can you fly this plane and land it?...Surely you can't be serious....I am serious, and don't call me Shirley"

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    March 2017
Posted by Armor_Aficionado on Monday, July 29, 2019 3:39 AM
Yep, I'm a big Shep Paine fan. His model dioramas on the Monogram boxes back in the 70s were what gave me my inspiration to become serious about modeling. I still scratchbuild almost all of my non-kit-supplied details. Haven't ever used any resin aftermarket stuff, and only rarely use PE. I get the argument that whatever makes life easier and makes the hobby more enjoyable for you is a good thing, but me, I'm also a bit "Dutchy" (good term, I like that!), and I would rather try to make some things myself. Some aftermarket details I don't mind, like say a PE pilot's seat in a P-40 I built. But I see some of these resin aftermarket details, like Black Dog's entire truckload of cargo molded as one piece (part # T35015), and I think, "Where's the skill in that?" Not where's the skill in manufacturing the piece, because it is very nice and highly detailed, but where's the skill in just ordering a complete loadout of detail parts molded as one piece that you simply drop in and glue in place? You could train a monkey to do that. So it is a matter of how much is too much, I guess. All things in moderation is a good rule of thumb; the Black Dog piece I mentioned seems, imho, to go over the line. If I saw someone's piece on display at a model contest which had that kind of detail in it, I wouldn't think as much of their talent as I would of a piece where the modeler had scratchbuilt all of that extra detail.

  • Member since
    March 2017
Posted by Armor_Aficionado on Monday, July 29, 2019 3:47 AM

Robotism

I agree with the old chap, but not for the reasons he stated. I use AK and MIG washes but I also understand they're not a net positive for hobby and may even damage it in the long term. I am by no means saying you shouldn't use the right tool for the right job and some of these washes will fit that for ease of use or effect you get. So I'm not trying to piddle on any one's parade here, just voicing an opinion.

All these fancy washes and techniques tend to make models look very similar. Most of the time they're used in the same ways on the same rough models and you get a model where you can't tell who made it. It's just generic 2015-2020 era model of whatever variety it is. You look at it and it's a model that looks good to everyone but is loved by no one to put it in rather flowery terms. When I see a model like that I don't have any real problems with it, but I also have no real reason to tell someone "You have to see THIS model". If everyone is using the same tool set to do the same job, it's all a bit middle ground. I know it's easy, I know it's your kit to do what you want with it, but if I would still like to see some personality in it. Give me a reason to oogle your kit instead of everyone else's kit.

I also fear it does harm the hobby's ability to do things or even what it is acceptable to do. Lost knowledge is a real problem and as some of the older chaps die off we lose their knowledge. If all of the young 'uns are only learning how to do weathering effects with commercial products, we lose knowledge in how to do things in other ways which may give better results some times. How many generations down the line do we end up with Games Workshop's "I slap paint on and it does a mediocre job but that's acceptable because everyone else is" current range of contrast paints? I'm just not a fan of that kind of mentality. I like models as models, I also like models as game pieces but since I invest so much time and effort into my hobbies, I'd like others to do the same. To me it's about respect for the hobby you're investing your time and effort into. If I want a hobby full of beautiful models, dynamic dioramas and people putting their hearts into pieces I have to at least try to meet those standards. I always want to push myself to be that 1 step above where I was last kit and find people better than me to try and match. Not every piece can be that advanced and some times you do need a quickie, easy kit to refresh after a difficult or long build. That's where I think these different commercial products shine. When you just want something done, to not think about it too much and enjoy the ride. I don't want that to become the defacto way people build models though and that's why I agree with this guy.

Model building has become easier, much much easier. Most kits now fit together almost perfectly and you can build them to near perfection with even the most basic of skills. And that's not a bad thing, it gets more good kits out there and more people to give the hobby a chance. I don't personally value quantity over quality in my hobbies though. When I see a modeler like Scale Model Workshop I see an incredibly talented model builder who I could probably never hope to compare to. I wish I could be as good as him and I always find his videos informative and interesting. But then I go on some forums and I see stacks and stacks of snapfit kits with barely any effort put into them getting a high amount of praise and very little useful feedback. I contrast the two and I don't see how the current generation of builders can ever become the elite SMW is because the environment isn't encouraging the same level of hard graft to truly understand a model kit. How many years are we off from 3D printing becomes a real player in the home model kit building market and we all look like prats for gluing kits together, filling them with putty and sanding them for hours and hours? Are those basic skills we now consider the very lowest tier going to become an elite skill set where the next generation admire a standard builder today as I admire SMW's dedication to panel line scribing? 40 years ago being able to correct a kit's warping and get really good piece alignment would be the difference between a model kit builder and a kid mucking around. The same way a kid might kick a ball around his garden, but he's not a footballer in the same way as someone playing in the world cup is. They're both similar things yet on very different levels.

The guy was clearly being rude, but we're all used to poor social skills in this hobby. I still think he has a valid point and I wonder how many of us will end up as that guy 20 years from now when people are 3D printing entire models, applying a commercial pin wash and calling it done. I suspect quite a few of us might get our backs up when they enter our backyards and claim they're model builders the same way we are. The hobby keeps changing drastically every decade and some of us will get left behind and be telling kids to get off of our lawn while others enjoy the next version of this hobby and adapt to it.

 

Robot, you make a very good point about the result being too many models looking exactly the same.  Not only because of products, but new "fad" techniques.  Last model show I went to, almost all of the armor models on display (my genre) were obviously following the fad that is now all the rage, pre-shading or "black basing," to the point where not only did too many look like they were all produced by the same person, but too many were WAY overdone!  They just didn't look realistic to my eye, similar to the sometimes overdone panel lines on aircraft.

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