V-22 Osprey Tiltrotor

Yeah might have to wait,thanks for the info though.
Another question is about the canopy on the Osprey.My kit has a gold tinted canopy but dont see the gold tint on the vehicle itself in all the pictures I've seen of it.Does the bird have the gold tint?

I've looked around the online stores and the only thing I find are painting masks for the 1/48 V-22. I'd be interested in getting some PE for mine as well, but I don't think we'll really see any until the final production version of the 1:1 bird is really rolling off the line and into squadron service. Then I imagine we'll start seeing some update/correction kits for this one.

Or, I could be completely wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

Anybody know of any upgrade or detail kits for the 1/48 Testers/Italari kit?
Thinking about building this puppy after my CH-46 is done.

Always happy to see someone's work on this kit. I'll eventually get around to building mine up...one of these days...

These things are flying around here so much now, they've kind of faded into the background, just another bird in the busy skies over Camp Swampy.

Hi, I first became aware of the V-22 when I read an article in a British "Girlie" magazine that had some very interesting comments by a Mr Terry Arnold, who, at that time was the Bell-Textron's "Tiltrotor Communications Manager" and he was asked if the situation at the American Consulate in Terahan in 1980 and the attempted rescue of the hostages would have been different if the V-22 had been in service and his reply was and I quote, ". We're really proud of the V-22's capabilities. It's everthing a military aircraft should be, and it's got tremendous civilian potential, which makes it even more valuable to our country in the long run. You don't need a runway, so it's possible to get in and out quickly, as in a hostage rescue situation. In that military operation, several "state-of-the-art" choppers were secretly sent into the Iranian desert in an opperation designed to spirit the American hostages out of the clutches of the Ayatollah. But the mission was scratched after one of the choppers developed engine trouble and a second chopper crashed during the rapid withdrawal and eight service men were killed". Apparently the choppers that were to affect the rescue were transported over in military transport aircraft, unloaded and re-assembled, taking a very long time from start to finish just to get them flying once they were there, where as, the V-22 could have been flown directly to Iran from the US, refueling in flight, effected the rescue before the Iranians knew what was happening and, have the rescued hostages on their way back to the U.S. In the article that was about the V-22, there were some pictures of the 'Osprey' in it prototype colours. Well, I searced everywhere for more images of the colour scheme and had no luck. I then wrote to Mr Arnold and explained that I had just bought the Italari Kit in 1/48 scale and was keen to colour it the same way. Mr Arnold very kindly sent me six, 8x10 colour photos of the V-22 in the prototype colour scheme. So now I have built two versions of the 'Osprey", one in prototype colours and the second is the 'up-dated' version by Italari, but I did the second one with the wing and blades in the 'ready to stow below decks' configuration in US Marine grey. So as I get better at this internet thing, I will post some pics of the two models. aramara

QUOTE: Originally posted by Remko I assume this is the right place to post this topic, although it's a matter of opinion what the Osprey actually is. Is it a helicopter or is it an aircraft... Anyway, I just received the book "Bell Boeing V-22 Osprey" by Bill Norton from AeroFax. I haven't read it completely of course, but paging through this book I already got some great ideas. Did you know that one of the very early mission profiles for the V-22 was VIP transport? At one point it was destined to replace/augment VH-3's and VH-60's for VMX. Unfortunately this was cancelled because of problems and delays in production. At this time the most likely winner for the new VIP aircraft would be the EH-101. But there's a very nice image of a "VV-22 Osprey" printed in this book. As well as a Medivac variant, the (also cancelled, although still very interesting) "SV-22" subhunter and "KV-22" tanker. I wish I had the time and space, but if I could I would get about 5 or six V-22 Ospreys in 1/72nd and paint and modify one of those in each of these varieties!! Still, I think I'll be getting the Italeri V-22 kit though. I would also like to know what you think of this. Should it be cancelled? I think not, it's a too interesting design and it has great promises for the future. Of course, there have been already too many casualties, and it is true that testing this aircraft is a dangerous job. But what did they expect, it's a totally new kind of machine, something unlike anything before. And when the first helicopters were built, they also contributed too many deaths in testing these new vehicles. Same goes for the aircraft. The idea has merit, and if it really comes into production/service, it will greatly enhance Marine, Airforce, Army and Naval operations. The biggest problem with the Osprey is it's price. It's costs are escalating rapidly. But this also is a result of poor politics and managing. The US Government should do it different. They agree on a price for the Osprey with the manufacturers, and that's what they will pay for it. If the manufacturer can make it cheaper (although still keep it's capabilities) than the rest is profit. If costs go up, well tough luck. Not our problem. The Dutch government did the very same with the new "De Zeven Provincien class" air defence frigate. A price was set, and that was final. Below this price would be profit, above it would be carried by the shipyard. Any thoughts on this? I'd also like to know what you think of the Italeri kit, and if there's anything better available. Thanks!! Remko

Well, I guess I'll keep an eye on any sales to pick up a couple of extra V-22s for future projects.

LJ

To my knowledge, there's no 1/48 scale kit, just a resin 1/72 kit from Hong Kong. Some of the mods would be "time-consuming" to incorporate into a resin kit to say the least and way above my modeling skills.

That is some sweet work, Trigger! I can definitely see the armed escort possibilities of that. Now, just need to find a kit in 1/48!

Maybe I'm wrong here, but I don't remember the XV-15 aircraft having the problems the Osprey has had.

Does anyone make a kit of the XV-15 other than that 1/72 Anigrand kit? I'd like 1/48... I think I just came up with a way to make an AV-15 escort.

USMC




USAF




US Army




Israel


Arrangement


Here's what I did to it:
- Increased the width of the sponsons to allow external stores (6 Hellfire shown) and 1 40mm grenede launcher and 1 M203/M301 type gun

- Extended the nose to allow FLIR, TF/TA Radar and refueling probe (now suddenly this thing looks similar to a Hokum!)

- Increased tail area

- raised the wing to allow for some ability to fold and store on a ship

As/if I modify the drawing, I'll post updates

An a/c with a lot of potential, bet they said a lot of the same things about helo's when they first came out. Leave it with the troops to figure out a lot of this, they always have

Interesting thoughts, all. From what I've read, the Army was on board with the Osprey many years ago, but bailed after it got to be too expensive. Lemonjello, I think a Spooky version of this aircraft would be awesome, but given the completely composite construction of the airframe, I doubt the real thing would stand the pounding. I was in NC when the two latest crashes happened, and I remember the dark cloud that hung over for weeks. As far as the at sea tests go, from what I've read, most of the problems first encountered the last time they were out have been resolved, and maintenance can be performed, depending on where the aircraft is spotted. Salbando, you're right about the rotor wash, I saw something on the internet that had a V-22 hovering in the desert, and as he decended- complete brownout. The V-22 was originally supposed to be pressurized with an NBC filtration system installed to protect the troops/crew. It has been removed, and the cabin will no longer be pressurized. Now, you have to stay below 10000 with a load of troops, so what does that do to your effective range? I also hear Bell is proposing a gunship version of the V-22 for escort missions. Exactly when that will happen is anybody's guess. Door guns were tried, but the nacelles are in the way of a door gun in helicopter mode, and in airplane mode, due to the close proximity of the rotors, the side door cannot be opened. The latest is that there is a completely NEW .50 cal in development specifically for the V-22. Any thoughts as to the price on that one? A nose turret was also tried, but due to weight constraints, and the fact that the turret could not be used on deck, that was scrapped. par429, most of the problems now I think have to do with all the redesigns that have come through in the last few years. That, and the fact that development was already so far along, and now all these changes have to take place. Meanwhile, the 46's aren't getting any younger. Some interesting info here, to be taken with a grain of salt I think, due to the author's apparent bias:
http://www.g2mil.com/V-22safety.htm

Tierra Del Fuego LJ!!!!

QUOTE: Originally posted by Trigger74 QUOTE: Originally posted by AH1Wsnake All MV-22 Ospreys were grounded in January 2005 because of excessive wear found in the gearbox bearings which control the propellers, said to 2nd Lt. Geraldine Carey, public affairs officer for the test group. Since then, those bearings have been replaced with chrome-coated ball bearings to protect from wear, said Carey. "Hey! It's all ball bearings nowadays. Now you prepare that Fetzer valve with some 3-in-1 oil and some gauze pads, and I'm gonna need 'bout ten quarts of anti-freeze, preferably Prestone. No, no make that Quaker State."

Guess I needed a refresher course. Course, that manure spreader that jackknifed on the Santa Anna left a gawdaweful mess, you should see my shoes.

I love Fletch, great movie, thanks for the laugh Trigger!

QUOTE: Originally posted by AH1Wsnake All MV-22 Ospreys were grounded in January 2005 because of excessive wear found in the gearbox bearings which control the propellers, said to 2nd Lt. Geraldine Carey, public affairs officer for the test group. Since then, those bearings have been replaced with chrome-coated ball bearings to protect from wear, said Carey.

"Hey! It's all ball bearings nowadays. Now you prepare that Fetzer valve with some 3-in-1 oil and some gauze pads, and I'm gonna need 'bout ten quarts of anti-freeze, preferably Prestone. No, no make that Quaker State."

Latest Osprey News for all those interested. The original article can be found here:
http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/main5/44586AE6511883E685256FE4006A5DD3?opendocument

MARINE CORPS AIR GROUND COMBAT CENTER TWENTYNINE PALMS, Calif (April 15, 2005) -- Combat center Marines and sailors may get a glimpse of the MV-22 Osprey flying again as the test group conducts practice missions during an operational evaluation period here going on throughout April.
All MV-22 Ospreys were grounded in January 2005 because of excessive wear found in the gearbox bearings which control the propellers, said to 2nd Lt. Geraldine Carey, public affairs officer for the test group.
Since then, those bearings have been replaced with chrome-coated ball bearings to protect from wear, said Carey.
The Osprey, which takes off and hovers like a helicopter, can rotate its nacelles and fly like an airplane, faster and further than a helicopter.
The Osprey is slated to replace the CH-46 Sea Knight and CH-53D Sea Stallion helicopters.
"The operational evaluation period began March 28," said Carey. "Two of the aircraft flew non-stop from [Marine Corps Air Station] New River, N.C., to Nellis Air Force Base, Nev., and conducted aerial refueling."
"The Ospreys made the cross-country journey in less than half a day," said Carey. "For the CH-46 helicopter, that would take over three days to fly the same distance."
Testing aboard the Combat Center includes the transporting of infantry Marines, refueling, defensive maneuvers against fixed- and rotary- wing threats and lifting external cargo.
According to Carey, the Osprey will be further tested on U.S. naval amphibious ships after evaluations are completed here.
When the operational evaluation period ends in June, a report will be delivered to Congress to make a decision of whether or not to enter full production.
"Only eight of the 19 MV-22 Ospreys are involved in the operational evaluation," said Carey. "The others will remain at New River and continue training for the pilots and air crew in order to have fully qualified instructors."

You guys are exactly right. Nothing increases budgets like aircraft getting beat up. Phones will ring, money wil suddenly become available, technical problems will be solved and defensive guns will be there. Unfortunately this takes time, and in the meantime you guys are left doing the best you can with the tape and bailing wire. The process is short -sighted at times.

Phil

Yeah, the budget will increase, so we can buy more riggers tape, JB Weld, and zip ties to hold the birds together once they start taking a beating...

The other thing to think about is cost versus survivability. If you're going to employ this thing like a Phrog or a Stallion, you're definately going to be putting them into harms way. Now of course there are many other factors to consider, but just looking at cost per airframe, and referencing the loss rate for rotory-winged assets in both OIF and OEF...I hope the USMC budget increases.

Interesting perspectives on the V-22. But keep in mind that few aircraft are introduced to the fleet (or whatever service) in their final form. As has been pointed out, several conceptual arrangements for defensive guns have been considered, and just because it doesn't have them now doesn't really mean that they didn't work. It's just as likely that the program can't afford them. It's an unfortunate reality that most aircraft program can't afford to do things "right" simply because there are too many other programs and not enough money. Hard decisions are made all the time to leave off important capabilities to fund more important capabilities. Most programs have pre-planned improvements on their long-term schedules that take advantage of future money to buy new capabilities. Perhaps guns fall into this catagory.

But as much as I don't usually like to do "what if" builds, a V-22 gunship would be pretty cool.

Phil

With warm weather coming, I won't be getting much work done on any of my kits, so any Osprey GB would have to wait for me as well. But it is something I'll keep on the back burner of my cluttered mind and I'll try to revive it later.

Agreed. Osprey GB is a good idea LJ. Don't know if I can participate, but it could yeild some cool looking results.

Lemonjello...the GB is a good idea. Got me thinking about some livery schemes...

QUOTE: Originally posted by Dragonfire Lemonjello...maybe the pure armed escort will be your "mini-spooky" version. Honestly...you never know...

My gripe will be that nobody will really look for a solution until well after these enter squadron service...then the powers that be will scratch their heads and point fingers in the blame game.

But, on the topic, I think there are a lot of possibilities to this kit, civillian and military. Hmm, I wonder if there would be enough interest for a Group Build later this year...I'd get a kick out of seeing some V-22s in airline livery, or fire/police/air ambulance markings as well as military.

Lemonjello...maybe the pure armed escort will be your "mini-spooky" version. Honestly...you never know...

Well, they'll have to come up with something, because with all the money that's been poured into it, the V-22 project will be pushed through. Maybe they can come up with a pure escort version. No troop capacity, underwing pylons or bomb bays for small LGBs or CBUs and some cannon/miniguns as well? HHmm, maybe I'll have to get a couple more of the 1/48 kits down the road for some "What If?" type builds.

According to the book they have tested various weapon options for this. Including a rear firing gun like that on the CH-53E. They're also trying miniguns out of the cockpit window, but because of Prop-rotor stands this is very difficult, and severely limits firing arcs.

As for the LHD compatibility, the Osprey at full spread (VTOL take-off) is only slightly larger than the CH-53 and I don't think it will be a problem. For USMC however, an armed derivative of the BA609 or XV-15, but with the Osprey's "swing-wing" for storage would be ideal I think.

Just my opinion though...


Remko

NOTE...the following is my opinion and mine only:

I agree with Chris, Salbando, and AH1WSnake. It would do great in the private/commerial aircraft industry for short hops from the city to city or city to outlying areas but for combat ops, I'm not sold. Self-Defense armament, armed escorts, and the lack thereof just doesn't give me the warm and fuzzy. Even with all the OpEvals with HMX-1 and VMMT-204 there are still issues that keep popping up. I opt for the newer version of the CH-53E (Sikorsky has it under CH-53X), and an updated version of the CH-46E (I think it was called the Boeing 300).

Another question is, who will provide the armed gunship escort for these puppies when they enter the hostile area? Even with the Zulu upgrade, the Cobras can't keep up with an Osprey in 'airplane mode.' Harrier or Hornet fixed wing assets maybe? Big maybe, because once they reach the LZ, they'll just be forced to circle the area, and identifying and engaging anyone on the ground at that point would be utter confusion. Not that combat itself isn't confusing, but having a helicopter gunship provide your LZ security would be safer than fixed-wing.

I never knew the cabin was supposed to be pressurized. Originally, I thought that the defensive armament was not possible due to the huge obstruction that the engine nacelles provide. Even if you get around the pressurization issue and mount guns on it, how ridiculously small would that gunner's field of fire be from out those side doors!? The Marine versions were supposed to mount gun turrets on the nose/chin, but that idea was eventually scrapped.

A whole lot of money has been sunk into this project, and it seems to be the way we are headed, like it or not. I think it is safe to say that if and when the Osprey goes fully operational, the Corps will be adopting a new doctrine for aerial operations. We're just going to have to exploit its strengths and minimize its weaknesses.

OK, I guess I was wrong about the Air Force using it as a spec ops plane. I don't know much about that secret squirel stuff. Thank you for enlightening me salbando.