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V-22 Osprey Tiltrotor

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  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 12, 2005 9:49 PM
Well, I'm going to jump in with both feet (green ones by the way). As a USAF CSAR type and from the perspective of having an operational background operating from USAF Spec Ops and SAR Helos....I'm not sold on the Osprey. I personnaly know 2 CCT members that conducted (or tried to conduct) FRIES Ops during the USAF's test phase. The rotor wash under the aircraft was almost impossible at a hover. Now I've been under Chinooks and Pave Lows (and so had these guys) but they said it was a high LimFac to FRIES Ops.
Chris,
Concerning USAF Spec Ops...brother, the idea of doing and Infil or an Exfil without any defensive armament makes my sphincter slam tight.

The bottom line (just my opinion and the opinion of many of my "co-workers"), is that while it's a great technology demonstrator, and does have a place in the DoD, I'm just not sure that place is aerial assault, or CSAR or even Spec Ops. My take on the matter is that they (folks with rank on their shoulders) see the Osprey as "killing two birds with one stone"...that being a replacement for both Tankers and Helos. From a USAF perspective, what we really need is a rotory wing replacement for the Pave Low (and the Pavehawk for that matter) and newer HC-130's.

There, I said it...let the stones fly.
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posted by ridleusmc on Tuesday, April 12, 2005 3:00 PM
I see the darn things flying around every day. In fact one was sitting at the washrack by my hanger for half the day. I don't really think they're dangerous anymore. I heard a factoid somewhere that more people died testing the old 46. I have no idea if that's true or not, but an Osprey hasn't crashed since I joined the Marine Corps. VMX-22 is the squadron here that puts these things into the air every day, and they're doing it safely.

***This is my own opinion and doesn't reflect the beliefs of anybody else in the military.*** But I don't think the Osprey would do well to replace the 46 or any other helo for the Marine Corps. It's double rotor/propeller arc is just too wide to be deployed from a modern LHA (Landing Helicoptor Assault) or LHD (Landing Helicopter Dock). The thing doesn't carry any defensive armorment due to it's pressurized cabin. These factors make me think that the Osprey isn't suited for areal assault or ship to shore operations. However, Air Force Spec Ops may find suits their needs well.

They're pretty impressive in flight, but I'd rather ride a CH-53E any day.

Semper Fi,
Chris
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 12, 2005 2:49 PM
Gert-Jan,

If you do a search on Google for "V-22 Osprey" there are a lot of images of civil colored aircraft. Although most are made for Flight Simulator. The coolest aircraft I have seen was an Osprey in FedEx livery. Very cool!!

BTW, you're right about the Osprey being huge. In scale 1/72nd the model is already 35 cm wide with rotors at maximum spread. In scale 1/48th the model will be about 54 cm wide!!!! Although it will fit on a Lowloader, it doesn't look good.

Anyway, I'll scan the photo's/images in tomorrow. I hope they come out okay...

Remko
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 12, 2005 8:39 AM
Nice topic, Remko,

Most of my modelling is civil helo's/ aircraft and I am building a 1:72- What-if-civil airliner version of the Osprey. Already built the old 1:48 kit like that in KLM-livery (like their former helicopters).
I Know that the BV609 is meant for the civil market, but while waiting for a kit of that one, the V22 will have to do.

About our other hobby (1:50 construction equipment and HH): I remember a discussion on DHS in which you already noticed that 1:48 aircraft look way too big next to 1:50 equipment. That would definitely be the case with the 1:48 Osprey. It will not fit on any lowloader!

Good Luck, Gertjan
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Green Lantern Corps HQ on Oa
Posted by LemonJello on Tuesday, April 12, 2005 6:46 AM
Hey, that would be awesome, Remko. If you get a chance, I'd appreciate that!

Now I just have to beat this spring fever and get back to the bench!
A day in the Corps is like a day on the farm; every meal is a banquet, every paycheck a fortune, every formation a parade... The Marine Corps is a department of the Navy? Yeah...The Men's Department.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 11, 2005 2:39 PM
LemonJello, if you like I can scan in some images from the book depicting an Osprey gunship variant.

Remko
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Green Lantern Corps HQ on Oa
Posted by LemonJello on Monday, April 11, 2005 2:20 PM
I'm probably repeating myself, but I'm planning to make my Osprey into an AV-22 gunship, along the lines of a Spooky/Spectre style. I've got the mini-guns that I need and I think I can scratch a couple cannons as well from styrene tube and other bits. Should be a fun project when I get to it.

That and maybe I need another for a white/orange Coast Guard SAR-type Opsrey, just for the eye catching colors.
A day in the Corps is like a day on the farm; every meal is a banquet, every paycheck a fortune, every formation a parade... The Marine Corps is a department of the Navy? Yeah...The Men's Department.
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: phoenix
Posted by grandadjohn on Monday, April 11, 2005 1:52 PM
It's a hybred a/c, think they are hoping for a civilian interest in them to help drop the price after the military pays for the development
  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Kincheloe Michigan
Posted by Mikeym_us on Monday, April 11, 2005 1:43 PM
now here is the 1 million dollar question is the V-22 a Helicopter or a plane?
and would it fit in with the plane category or the helicopter topics?

On the workbench: Dragon 1/350 scale Ticonderoga class USS BunkerHill 1/720 scale Italeri USS Harry S. Truman 1/72 scale Encore Yak-6

The 71st Tactical Fighter Squadron the only Squadron to get an Air to Air kill and an Air to Ground kill in the same week with only a F-15   http://photobucket.com/albums/v332/Mikeym_us/

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 11, 2005 11:33 AM
I agree that a 1/48th model would look much cooler, and it will also be in scale with my other (far more expensive) hobby: heavy haulage and construction equipment. in 1/50th-1/48th scale.
But unfortunately the Osprey is a pretty big aircraft, and I don't have the space for a 1/48th model.
Besides, if I do a special version of a MV-22B for Special Operations Aircraft in 1/72nd, it would fit much better with the MH-47E Chinook I'm going to get as well as my Dragon and Revell 1/72nd scale models of armored vehicles.

Thanks anyway.

Remko
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Lafayette, LA
Posted by Melgyver on Monday, April 11, 2005 11:12 AM
I had started on a 1/48 V-22 when they first came out and made some fuselage interior "plugs" for the sponsons. I had thought of building mine as "Golly Green" Osprey. It's been so long I guess I need to check out the "new and improved" version. It would look good sitting next to the new 1/48 CH-46.

Clear Left!

Mel

  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Moooooon River!
Posted by Trigger on Monday, April 11, 2005 10:55 AM
Their new 1/48 kit is more up to date and closer to production specs than the 1/72 outing. I'm going to finish mine as a CV-22 (one of these days). Interior on the 1/48 version lends itelf to some nice detailing opportunities. the bulkhead and are by the aft ramp may need some work. Looks kind of spartan and there may be gaps on the inside from where the sponsons are.

You're soliciting personal opinions on the Osprey here? Laugh [(-D] Let's see... 10 foot poll? Check. Padding? Check. 'Duck-n-cover' instruction film? Check. Crash helmet? "Oh, I hope not." This could get extra salty so I ain't going anywhere near it!! Laugh [(-D]
------------------------------------------------------------------ - Grant "Can't let that nest in there..."
  • Member since
    November 2005
V-22 Osprey Tiltrotor
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 11, 2005 10:16 AM
I assume this is the right place to post this topic, although it's a matter of opinion what the Osprey actually is. Is it a helicopter or is it an aircraft...

Anyway, I just received the book "Bell Boeing V-22 Osprey" by Bill Norton from AeroFax. I haven't read it completely of course, but paging through this book I already got some great ideas.
Did you know that one of the very early mission profiles for the V-22 was VIP transport? At one point it was destined to replace/augment VH-3's and VH-60's for VMX. Unfortunately this was cancelled because of problems and delays in production. At this time the most likely winner for the new VIP aircraft would be the EH-101.
But there's a very nice image of a "VV-22 Osprey" printed in this book. As well as a Medivac variant, the (also cancelled, although still very interesting) "SV-22" subhunter and "KV-22" tanker. I wish I had the time and space, but if I could I would get about 5 or six V-22 Ospreys in 1/72nd and paint and modify one of those in each of these varieties!! Still, I think I'll be getting the Italeri V-22 kit though.

I would also like to know what you think of this. Should it be cancelled? I think not, it's a too interesting design and it has great promises for the future.
Of course, there have been already too many casualties, and it is true that testing this aircraft is a dangerous job. But what did they expect, it's a totally new kind of machine, something unlike anything before. And when the first helicopters were built, they also contributed too many deaths in testing these new vehicles. Same goes for the aircraft. The idea has merit, and if it really comes into production/service, it will greatly enhance Marine, Airforce, Army and Naval operations. The biggest problem with the Osprey is it's price. It's costs are escalating rapidly. But this also is a result of poor politics and managing. The US Government should do it different. They agree on a price for the Osprey with the manufacturers, and that's what they will pay for it. If the manufacturer can make it cheaper (although still keep it's capabilities) than the rest is profit. If costs go up, well tough luck. Not our problem. The Dutch government did the very same with the new "De Zeven Provincien class" air defence frigate. A price was set, and that was final. Below this price would be profit, above it would be carried by the shipyard.

Any thoughts on this?
I'd also like to know what you think of the Italeri kit, and if there's anything better available.
Thanks!!

Remko
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