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Most Under-Appreciate Helo

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  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: DSM, Iowa
Posted by viper_mp on Friday, August 24, 2007 7:34 PM
Ok, I'm probably going to receive a ton of flak for this, but I'm gonna say the H-16 [YH-16] Transporter.  Although the project failed, you can CLEARLY see it was the design inspiration for the CH-47, which is one of my all-time favorite helos.  I've actually got an old H-16 kit somewhere in my stash, and I was surprised when I put it next to a CH-47 how similar they were. 

Rob Folden

Secretary / Webmaster- IPMS Plastic Surgeons Member at Large-IPMS Hawkeye Modelers

  • Member since
    June 2006
Posted by Helo_Joe on Friday, August 24, 2007 10:02 AM
Agree with Sh-2 and HH-43. What about the Mi-8 family?.
  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Oklahoma
Posted by chopperfan on Friday, August 10, 2007 7:15 AM

 leadfooterm535i wrote:
CH-37!!! how many models do you see around?

One. Check this thread

Randie [C):-)]Agape Models Without them? The men on the ground would have to work a lot harder. You can help. Please keep 'em flying! http://www.airtanker.com/
  • Member since
    July 2007
  • From: Miami, FL
Posted by leadfooterm535i on Friday, August 10, 2007 6:29 AM
CH-37!!! how many models do you see around?

U/HH-60 CE "Embrace The Suck, Phantoms!!!" "I work for Pedro!" Kris

  • Member since
    September 2015
  • From: The Redwood Empire
Posted by Aaronw on Sunday, February 5, 2006 1:20 PM

 dkmacin wrote:
The military took a big cut as far as SAR goes when the government agreed with the civilians that we were cutting into their business. So military SAR took a back seat to those who would do it, at a great fee of course. Or when the weather was nice and it was before 4PM, after that let the military guys earn their pay.
Of course there aren't many civilian SAR operations in the Aleutians or Bering sea, and not many would jump at the chance for a "cruise" on the back of a 378 getting tossed around in "mild Alaskan" weather.


Don

 

I would guess it is the same law (1933 Commerce act? IIRC) that is used to keep the military from flying helicopter and tanker missions on fires unless all contract aircraft are being employed already.

Personally I don't see the distinction between LA County Fire Department taking work away from private buisness or the federal government doing so but obviously the politicians in their infinate wisdom do. Shock [:O] 

While many of the private contarctors do good work, many refuse to pass on a call they are not really qualified for, particularly when you get into mountainous areas, most civilian medivac ships are optimised for lower elevations and have little extra power left over when coming up into the mountains but that doesn't seem to stop them from trying anyway.

Its too bad because the military SAR are generally better equipped, and trained (rappel qualified, canopy penetrators, night vision etc), and fly more capable helo's better suited to high altitude flight. As a bonus it provides good training opportunities for the crews, saves the tax payer and patient money and provides the military with a good public image.  

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: phoenix
Posted by grandadjohn on Sunday, February 5, 2006 8:13 AM
Not to mention the number of fatal crashes from undertrained civilian crews flying in conditions they shouldn't be in
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Upper left side of the lower Penninsula of Mich
Posted by dkmacin on Saturday, February 4, 2006 9:28 PM
The military took a big cut as far as SAR goes when the government agreed with the civilians that we were cutting into their business. So military SAR took a back seat to those who would do it, at a great fee of course. Or when the weather was nice and it was before 4PM, after that let the military guys earn their pay.
Of course there aren't many civilian SAR operations in the Aleutians or Bering sea, and not many would jump at the chance for a "cruise" on the back of a 378 getting tossed around in "mild Alaskan" weather.


Don

I know it's only rock and roll, but I like it.
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: phoenix
Posted by grandadjohn on Saturday, February 4, 2006 9:22 PM
Roger that, Pharoah
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, February 4, 2006 8:36 PM
The role of the medevac Mast mission has become a different animal from state to state. Most of the lower 48 states will use the military medevac for "special" situations only. While others use them almost exclusive. The Hawaii National Guard has the most active National Guard Medevac unit in the nation. They are used on a regular basis for both civilian and support of the infantry units on the Island.Alaska due to its unique terrain and conditions is used often as well. Most SAR missions are performed by PJ's however. Salem Oregons 1042 AA also responds to civilian calls in special situations. Here in Washington our medevac is used in situations where a hoist is needed. The civilian providers seem to have cut a deal with the local political figures to make sure this doesnt change. From the military point of view its valuable training. From the state point of view its a added expense to keep a crew and helicopter ready to fly year round. Why do that when the state can take a "cut" from the private carrier?
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: phoenix
Posted by grandadjohn on Saturday, February 4, 2006 7:41 PM

Mel

Think it was around 71 or 72, remember when it started in Colorado by an active Army unit out of Ft.Carson. Mast was an attempt to improv the Army's image after the Vietman War and also to apply the knowledge learn bt Medivac mission during the war. Was mainly used in Co for civilian traffic accidents

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Lafayette, LA
Posted by Melgyver on Saturday, February 4, 2006 7:18 PM

I don't remember when the first MAST Medevac Units were Chartered but it was probably in the early 70's.  MAST stand for Military Assistance to Safety and Traffic.  It allowed the Military to work with the civilian agencies in the community in the Aerial Medevac arena.  I'm proud to say I was a member of the 872nd Med Det. the Cajun Medevac out of New Iberia, La. and we became the 2nd Army Resever Unit to be Chartered as a MAST Unit in the summer of 1979.  I believe the first was a Unit out of Tomball, Tx. north of Houston.  Flew our first MAST Mission out of Ft. Smith Arkansas during Summer Camp.  Just had to set the "record" straight on the MAST!  

I think the HH-3 has been ignored way too long!  We need a 1/48 Jolly Green to go with all the other great 1/48 kits coming out this year!

Clear Left!

Mel

Clear Left!

Mel

  • Member since
    April 2014
Posted by r13b20 on Saturday, February 4, 2006 6:57 PM
I agree salbando. Just because you mentioned the TH55. Which, I'm happy to say, is still being built as the Schweizer 300C/ CBi. (I build up the engines for them.) Thanks for the nod! ( even if it wasn't intentional)  :-) 
  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Southern Oregon, USA
Posted by gedenke on Wednesday, January 11, 2006 5:17 PM

 ridleusmc wrote:
Just wondering... Is Erickson hiring?

Always hiring! Check out the website under employment:

http://www.ericksonaircrane.com/employment.asp

-Geoff There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. — Douglas Adams, 'The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy'.
  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Southern Oregon, USA
Posted by gedenke on Wednesday, January 11, 2006 5:15 PM
 DrCemento wrote:

   I could have sworn hat the three A/C produced for  the Italian Forest service by Erickson were in fact  the first "Ground up "  Ships built by them  - or were they just  the first with  the new all Glass cockpits etc? You guys had to drag me outa that thing at Heli-Expo this year - Now there's a chopper I want to fly someday!!! (Tragically that exact Aircraft crashed on it's test flight upon being Delivered in Italy, Killing one of Ericksons pilots I believe - my condolences to all who new him..) Was an Official report ever completed for that?

    On a lighter  note, my vote for most underappreciated goes to the venerable, still in service, super fun to fly helicopter that trained millions (including me) to fly, Hughes 269 (reborn as the Schweizer 300C, CB CBi) Do not be fooled. this is THE ideal piston trainer often overshadowed by a company that shall remain un-named. Talk about under appreciated! - and whens somebody gonna make a 1/32nd kit of this thing! great topic. - J

 

You are correct in what you say, although the Itialian cranes are in fact conversions. The Heritage "Glass Cockpit" is a new upgrade. Glad to see you enjoyed the Expo.

As for the crash in Italy, the Italian equivalent to the American NTSB is conducting an investigation. Unfortunately, we haven't heard the official yet, I'm told these things take years sometimes.

Anyway, I'm just a grease monkey on these things, so I'm probably not allowed to say much more.

-Geoff There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. — Douglas Adams, 'The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy'.
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posted by ridleusmc on Wednesday, January 11, 2006 3:47 AM
Just wondering... Is Erickson hiring?
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Napa, Ca
Posted by DrCemento on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 10:10 AM

Gendenke Wrote:


"Not be argumentitive, but "new build" Erickson birds are actually "conversions". Erickson takes an old A or B model airframe, and completely rebuilds them, modifing various components, and "converts" them to either an E or and F model, respectively. Some research will show that the serial numbers on the Erickson birds were late 1960's manufacture dates. Just my two cents, 'nuf said.

p.s. My employer (Erickson) actually has three of these such conversions in the hangar right now."

   I could have sworn hat the three A/C produced for  the Italian Forest service by Erickson were in fact  the first "Ground up "  Ships built by them  - or were they just  the first with  the new all Glass cockpits etc? You guys had to drag me outa that thing at Heli-Expo this year - Now there's a chopper I want to fly someday!!! (Tragically that exact Aircraft crashed on it's test flight upon being Delivered in Italy, Killing one of Ericksons pilots I believe - my condolences to all who new him..) Was an Official report ever completed for that?

    On a lighter  note, my vote for most underappreciated goes to the venerable, still in service, super fun to fly helicopter that trained millions (including me) to fly, Hughes 269 (reborn as the Schweizer 300C, CB CBi) Do not be fooled. this is THE ideal piston trainer often overshadowed by a company that shall remain un-named. Talk about under appreciated! - and whens somebody gonna make a 1/32nd kit of this thing! great topic. - J

Model builder formerly posting as jbatesc6
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: phoenix
Posted by grandadjohn on Monday, January 2, 2006 6:06 PM
Yes, but that was a different helo, know in the Army as the H-25 and in the Navy as the HUP
  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Orlando, Florida
Posted by ikar01 on Sunday, January 1, 2006 11:17 PM
didn't AURORA build one that they called the flying mule?

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: phoenix
Posted by grandadjohn on Sunday, January 1, 2006 8:29 PM
FM does a CH-21 in 1/48th, heard it's not that great of a kit and Aurora did one in 1/48th also, built it about 30 years ago and currently packed away with most of my collection
  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Reno, Nevada, USA
Posted by Silverback on Sunday, January 1, 2006 6:31 PM

OK, so how about the HC-21 (Workhorse/Shawnee/Flying Banana)?  It was a true pioneer in the medium-lift ans SAR categories, and the grand-daddy of the truly awesome Chinook.  Even more obscure, but maybe just as important from a historical perspective is the original flying banana (IIRC the Navy designation was HRP-2) also called the Rescurer.

Only Italieri has chosen to honor the type with a model kit (1/72 scale), and then only the HC-21 types that serve with the French and German armies.

Phil

  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Orlando, Florida
Posted by ikar01 on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 6:07 PM

I deffinately have to stick with the H-43.  Not only did it do well with on base rescue, we used them for supporting local villages with civic projects such as transporting water systems.  They were used for night and day recon flights some distance from the base, Medevac flights, and whatever else they were needed for. 

The other choice would be the Air Force version of the Huey.  I think it was the "F" with a crane type winch mounted on the top of the ship.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 5:22 PM

I have to go with the SeaSprite. It was great for it's time as a duel ASW / SAR bird, but, there was a reason we call the "Kaman Koffins". Over their service life they probably killed more aircrew than lives saved.

If you can find the old Revell SH-2F 1/48 kit it just begs for someone to super detail it. Throw in some Eduard seat belts, hang a white metal 60 in the door and you've got a nice Vietnam ASW/SAR version.

FLY STRAIGHT, BE BRAVE....

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by air 5 on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 1:20 PM
I thought Mickey Rooney was flying an S-51 off the carrier and got an H-19 when he was transfered to shore duty.  ( I can't remember the old Navy designators) I think the H-19 was HO1S or something like that.
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: phoenix
Posted by grandadjohn on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 7:59 AM
Somebody does a kit of it, but I can't remember who, might try a search at Squadron or other on-line businees that has a search engine for their product line
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Aaaaah.... Alpha Apaches... A beautiful thing!
Posted by Cobrahistorian on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 6:08 AM

PW,

That's a Sikorsky R-5.  Developed during WWII, but it didn't reach operational capability until after the war (about 60 were produced and operated during WWII). 

"1-6 is in hot"
  • Member since
    November 2004
  • From: Salisbury Massachucetts USA
Posted by PanzerWulff on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 1:57 AM
i cant remember the helocopters designation but it was the helo in the movie bridges at toko re and was also seen briefly in the old 50's monster movie THEM i really like the look of it but have never seen a kit of one
ACE??? you were NEVER an ace AN ace HOLE maybe! (Lister to Rimmer on BBC's RED DWARF) Chris"Hey GRAVITY still works"Gray
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: phoenix
Posted by grandadjohn on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 7:36 PM
Had a couple of them in Korea until they were replaced by CH-47's in early 1969 and my Bn CO at FT Stewart ahd a picture of some he kept in his office to remind him when he really did have maintenance headache's.
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Aaaaah.... Alpha Apaches... A beautiful thing!
Posted by Cobrahistorian on Sunday, December 25, 2005 10:29 PM

Air5,

We've got a -37 at the Rucker museum.  Neat bird, but kinda wierd.  Did you guys know that it was powered by twin R2800s, just like the F7F?! 

"1-6 is in hot"
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by air 5 on Sunday, December 25, 2005 10:02 PM
Ya, DH at Erickson said they're still doing refabs. Now 10 to 15 airframes left before new builds occure.  Under appreciated Helo; HH-43, with a following of the HH3 Group.  Still think we need to find out more about post war 37.  I've seen only  one in Civilian marking and that was a back round shot at Arizona.  AaronW. I think your P2V's are safe, as long as maintance does not become an issue. Need seperate thread for that line. 
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