Unusual Vietnam Hueys

Marko,

   XM18 and SUU-11/A were identical systems, only the designation was different (Army vs. Air Force).  They were even both white.  Wouldn't a SUU-11/A fitted to an Army bird become a M18?  Great research, man.  Without the documentation there is NO way to tell them apart from those photos that I know of.  What was your source? 

    Ray
 

Hey Guys!

That wide load on that Huey are in fact boxes with new rotor blades; see the photo of HA(L)-3 UH-1B Seawolf 308 I found on HA(L)-3 photo albums page; the caption to this photo on their site confirms these are rotor blade boxes.

As for that Thunderbird UH-1B with minigun pods-at the time those photos were taken the unit was still Company A 101st Aviation Battalion Winged Warriors/Thunderbirds. And I found a story behind this unusual minigun/M5 bird: A/101st got the minigun pods from the USAF, so they were the original SUU-11 minigun pods, not the Army version (M18).

That multiple flare exector rack is quite unusual; I don't know the designation but I've only ever seen these Multiple Ejector Racks on Navy OP-2Es and marine OV-10As (they would use them for dropping ADSIDS sensors) and USAF A-26 Counter Invaders (they used them for dropping flares)... The bird in the photo is a 25th Aviation Battalion bird.

I also found some info on XM47 system (if anyone is interested). The system was first used on Army Hueys, but was later more commonly seen on USAF A-1Es. Each dispenser was loaded with four submunition canisters containing what was known as ''Gravel'' mines. Gravel were basicly lumps of pressure sensitive explosive packed in a cloth wrapping (so the pressure alone would set them off if somebody steeped on the thing-no fuze needed!!!) Because of the volatile nature of the Gravel, submunition canisters were double walled-outside compartment was filled with liquid nitrogen which acted as a cooling agent and expulsion agent; the mines in the inner compartment were submerged in liquid freon which rendered mines inactive; so when the mines were ejected (using the above mentioned liquid nitrogen) the freon would evaporate and the mines would become active. The carrier aircraft were fitted with temperature and pressure gauges and crew had to monitor freon temperature and pressure readings constantly-if the pressure started dropping/temperature rising the standard SOP was to jettison the XM47 dispensers immediately to avoid detonation of the ''Gravel''...needless to say, this system was not very popular with the crews :) Garvel mines didn't contain enough explosive to kill a person, but enough to seriously mess up Your foot or puncture a tire on a truck, so they were used to affect VC/NVA mobility and to act as amplification devices for setting off seismic sensors (ADSIDS) dropped along Ho Chi Minh trail.

Marko 

skypirate1 wrote:

A rare shot of 280 shot rocket pods!! lol only joking, i have no idea whats going on here, other than a huey with a very wide load! anyone have any ideas? Hope you enjoy the pics and can fill in some blanks. Andy

Okay, I'm gonna take a stab at this one.

I recently saw a picture of a UH-60 medivac being used to transport relacement rotor blades. The boxes looked similar to the boxes in this Huey.

May not be right but, it's a pretty good guess!

Keep the pics coming guys. I'm getting some great ideas for my Huey kits. If I ever get things set back up.

Andy,

  Great pics, man!  I think the last one is a flare pod, but I don't know the designation for the system. The next to the last one looks like the XM-47 mine dispenser (see the first pic I posted for this thread).  THe first batch of pics appear to be the M-18 minigun pod.  They were usually mounted on Cobras (called M-18E1), but I'm pretty sure that's what it is.  The unit, by the way, is the 336th AHC (Thunderbirds was gun platoon).  

     Ray

Edit:  It's nice to actually be right the first time for a change:

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Guys,

Ive found a few more pics that you might find interesting.

Another photo of a 19 shot pod and minigun combo.

A rare shot of 280 shot rocket pods!! lol only joking, i have no idea whats going on here, other than a huey with a very wide load! anyone have any ideas?

While on the subject of oversized rocket pods, Whats this next shot all about???

Whats this???

Hope you enjoy the pics and can fill in some blanks.

Andy

Jon, plan on it being hot 100+ with big afternoon and evening thunderboomers, not much at Marana cept rattlesnakes and scorpins and lots of stored jetliners.

Plan on spending some time at Pima Air and Space if you have time

Jon,

Great stuff! Glad he got back to you. And to think i nearly didnt bother posting them . Im really pleased that they have come in handy for you, Chris and the Museum (sorry i missed the 4th shot ). I found a few other colour shots of similar birds, but i expect you already have them, as they belong to a guy from Blue Max. Anyway il send em over later, just incase. 

Andy 

I've gotten in contact with the guy who took those photos of the NUH-1B and he's willing to send copies of his photos to the museum at Rucker!

Yeah, I'm a little excited!

Jon
 

Jon,

  Which spectacular image are you elated about, the TOW birds?

And,

   You beat me to the puch with the TOW birds.  I found those the other day on the 129th site, but hadn't got around to posting them.  I guess turn abouts fair play, right, Jon!

      Ray
 

 I have no words to express my elation!

Andy,

Those are pictures of one of two UH-1Bs equiped with XM26 Tow system deployed to Vietnam in 1972 (Your images show the late-style camouflage). And by the way, I don't use any ''supercharged'' search engines for finding my photos and info, I guess I just got a nose for these things (and a bit of luck) ;)

As for the Ray's missile-do You guys think it could be an experimental air-launched version of the MGM-51 Shillelagh; I remember reading about a competition in 1960s between TOW and Shillelagh for helicopter launched applications... There seem to be no fins on the missile in Ray's photo (not yet deployed I guess) which is concurrent with MGM-51 pop-out fins; also, the size and shape are quite similar to MGM-51.

I also found a photo of another missile tested on Hueys in 1960s, early 70s-the AGM-64 Hornet. This missile was developed for USAF in 60s as an anti-tank missile (later dropped in favour of AGM-65 Maverick) and was also used as a test bed for Hellfire guidance system in the 70s.

And a couple more images of UH-1M ''Night fighters''. Some of these images can be found in Squadron/Signal books, but I include colour versions :) I've been wanting to build an INFANT Huey for quite some time, but just cannot get enough detailed photos, especially of the cockpit displays/control panels,...really frustrating! Maybe my posts on INFANT Hueys will prompt somebody to provide us with more images... The first image shows a UH-1M INFANT of the INFANT NETT (later INFANT DET)-the tactical designator on the tail boom indicates it was a part of 12th Aviation Battalion (please correct me if I'm wrong about battalion); EDIT: it was 11th Combat Aviation Battalion, 12th Combat Aviation Group.

The second image shows a weapons/systems operator in INFANT Huey cockpit; note the stick used to control the sensors/miniguns.

This an early version of the INFANT patch (You will also note this logo on the nose of the UH-1M INFANT above).

And an UH-1M equiped with AN/AAQ-5 FLIR; some of these were also deployed to Vietnam.

Marko

While you guys are on the TOW subject, i have been sorting out my pictures today and came across these.

 Not much info other than it was one of the first TOW rocket hueys in Vietnam, taken by a guy from the 129th AHC. I havnt had time to check if you guys have already posted these pics, but thought i would pop them on, before i forget.

Andy

Hey all,

 Man, you guys keep coming up with some of the best photos!  The sensor on the roof of that Huey looks like an early TOW turret installation. Could be one of the really early testbeds before they went to the chin bubble installation.  Definitely one for me to look further into.  Ray, do you have the PN number on that one?  

The missile... hmm... goooooood question.  My first instinct, due to the length of the launcher was possibly a Maverick, but what we can see of the missile is considerably smaller.  Got me on that one!

Well, I inprocessed at my unit today.  Got me 4 AH-64As to call my very own now. Now to learn how to fly the darned thing!  John, I'll be out your way in a couple weeks for the Alpha course!

Jon 

Marko,

  Thanks, I already checked out the ORDATA site earlier.  I thought I had seen that Huey in my refs somewhere, but I was too lazy yo look through them all.   Thanks for the info.

       Ray
 

Ray,

You found my reference on LAU-3 by Yourself. Man, You're fast :) I would like to point out that there is a lot of confusion regarding Army 19-shot rocket launchers. First they tested and used the LAU-3, which was the basis for the first 19-shooter produced for the Army-the M159. M159 was in turn replaced by the M200. I'm affraid I cannot provide any info on when each rocket pod was introduced, but I'll look into it. So basicly many authors erronously refer to M159 as M200 and viceversa. It is especially diffucult to tell apart the later M159 models (M159B/C) from M200 as they were about the same length (early M159s were shorter than M200s). But I suggest You visit a very good web site dealing with Unexploded Ordnance, cause they have tons of info on different ordnance and launchers/dispensers. Here' the link to their search page:

http://maic.jmu.edu/ordata/search.asp?SearchMode=0

After closer inspection of Your quad LAU-3 UH-1B image I've been able to identify it: it is a UH-1B 62-01877 flown by the UTTHCO. The picture of this bird also appears on page 23 of Squadron/Signal UH-1 Huey gunships Walk Around armed with quad LAU-3s with breakaway nose fairings. The photo was probably taken in 1964 to early 1965 as it still wears the high-vis yellow tail number; 68th AC(AH) (unit activated using choppers, equipment and personnel of UTTHCO) started to replace high-vis scheme and markings with the low-vis in early 1965. Here You have it-Case closed

Marko

Chief,

  Yeah, I kinda figured that out later (see my edit above).  Exactly when were the M200 pods introduced and where can I go for that documentation?

   Thanks,

           Ray
 

rotorwash wrote:

Marko,   How do you know the rocket pods are LAU-3's?  ACTIV (Army Concept Team In Vietnam) also tested lots of new weapons systems as well.  What are your sources for your info?  I'm always looking for new refs!       Ray

They probably are LAU-3's as the M-200 didn't yet exist when that photo was taken. That cammo paint scheme predates the introduction of the M-200. The scheme wasn't just used by UTTHCO but also was seen on 114th and 117th unit helicopters. The crossed sabers have appeared on photos linked to UTTHCO but as of yet I have not found them elsewhere.

Chief Snake 

Marko,

  How do you know the rocket pods are LAU-3's?  ACTIV (Army Concept Team In Vietnam) also tested lots of new weapons systems as well.  What are your sources for your info?  I'm always looking for new refs!

      Ray

EDIT: I found a report by ACTIV on the Virtual Vietnam Archive from 1964.  UTTHCO was one of the testbed units for armed Huey concepts examined in ths report.  the other two were the 118th and 120th Airmobile Companies (light).  UTTHCO had 20 armed UH-1B's and the 118th and 120th had 8 each.  Anyway, the units tested both the LAU-3A 19 shot pods and the LAU-32A seven shot pods as well as the M-6 quad M60C system.  There is no ref to quad LAU-3A's, but pics don't lie!

Ray,

Fantastic stuff! I guess that so many unusual systems were tested on Hueys, that maybe even the Army lost track of them all :) As for that quad 19-shooter UH-1B, it was a UTTHCO (Utility Tactical Transport Helicopter Company) bird, not the 1st Cav. The UTTHCO was tasked with testing new weapons and developing gunship tactics. They would camouflage their UH-1Bs in three tone tiger stripe pattern in the early 60s and apply crossed sabres on most of their Hueys. The unit went through a lot of name changes: from UTTHCO to 68th Aviation Company (Armed helicopter), then 197th Aviation Company (Armed Helicopter) and finally 334th AWC. I think I got some more pictures of UTTHCO birds and info on the unit, just give me some time to dig it up :) The same quad mount was also used to test other ordnance such as XM14 .50 cal gun pods, napalm canisters, GP and frag bombs, smoke generators... Also, the 19-shooters in picture aren't Army M200 but USAF LAU-3.

I believe that roof mounted sighting system is more likely to be some experimental optical sight for some missile system (like for TOW) rather than FLIR. I could be wrong though :)

Marko 

Here's a very unusual Huey that i also posted in the Unusual Cammo thread. It is a UH-1B that has a nice tiger stripe cammo and presumably a quad M-200 rocket pod armamant system!  I call this the Super Hog!

It looks to be a 1t Cav bird (sorry UTTHCO, thanks Marko), but I really have no data on it.  I woudl be happy for any info anyone could provide.

 Here's a system I have no clue what to make of.  I was wondering if it is a smoke generator of some sort.  as far as I knew extra fuel tanks were carried in the passenger cabin, right?  But then again what would a rescue bird need with a smoke generator? By the way, the little label on the canister says Bell Helicopter, so it must have been manufactured for them.

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Next is a experimental FLIR system I guess?  Jon, please correct me if I'm wrong.

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Finally, I hesitate to even post this one, but does anyone know EXACTLY what type of missile this is?  After the fiasco last time, I ain't even gonna guess!

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I really thought I knew a lot about Hueys but this post has me feeling kinda like this:

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   Ray
 

Marko,

  Great pics as usual.  Ever seen an ALE 29 countermeasures dispenser mounted on an Army Huey?

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I'm sure this was just a test bird, but you can see the unit is mounted on an M156 universal mount.  I thought this might mesh with your flare dispenser theme.

   Ray
 

Ray,

I haven't got a clue what the system on the UH-1H is!?! In fact, I wouldn't even dare to guess! And what's with that screen fitted to the co-pilot's door? Strange looking rig indeed. That early XM5 system really looked crude :)

I found a couple of images of XM3 armed UH-1B 64-14054 of C/2/20 ARA at LZ Lane in 1967/68. Note the CS grenade dispenser mounted in the cabin; I think it is the modified XM3 I mentioned in one of the previous posts, just that C/2/20 ARA had it mounted in the cabin. I have never seen this configuration before.

Marko

Ok, here's a couple of pics for you guys.  We all know what the M5 looked like in Vietnam, but have you ever seen the early experimental model (the XM-5):

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Now you have!  Note by the way that this pic is of an Alpha model.  I was very excited to say the least when I ran across these pics in tha Army Aviation Museum archives!

Here's another pic that I have NO IDEA what the system being tested is.  Please help me out somebody.  There was no info with the photo:

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This system is on a UH-1H, but that's about all I know.

    Ray
 

Ray,

Great stuff! I've been looking for XM50 armed UH-1Cs for quite some time-not much luck except the one or two photos in the Squadron UH-1 Huey Gunships Walkaround. Did You by any chance find some photos of the interior of XM50 Hueys? I would really like to see the arrangement of ammo boxes, since both M21 and M5 ammo boxes took up the same space in the cabin. Man, I really envy You US guys for having access to such great collections and museums like the ft. Rucker Army Aviation Museum. From Your photos of the XM50 it seems that both systems (M21 and M5) were integrated and aimed using a common sighting station similar to the M21 sighting station (it can be seen stowed in the last XM50 image You posted).

I think we might at least have a chance of seeing M5/M16 combo on Vietnam Hueys. And I've got two reasons for believing that this combo was at least tested in Vietnam:

1) I have a 1972 UH-1B maintenance manual, and there is a note under the armament subsystems section saying that M5 could be used in conjunction with the M16-this is further referenced to M16 armament subsystem manual. So if anybody following this forum happens to have a M16 armament subsystem manual, I would really appreciate if they could check it up and possibly provide some additional info on M5/M16 combo.

2) I stumbled upon this image of Lou Drendel's painting of what was suppose to be a UH-1B of C troop 1st Squadron 9th Cavalry at Phu Cat in 1966. Since Lou Drendel's artwork is usually historically accurate, we may assume that he painted this UH-1B according to some photographic reference... Huey buffs will immediately notice the short rotor mast associated with UH-1A (mistake on Lou's part, I guess :).

I know that several images of INFANT UH-1Ms were allready posted here, but we mostly get to see test birds and INFANT NETT birds. So I am posting a couple of images of a 191st AHC UH-1M INFANT. It is quite frustrating that there are so few images of INFANT Hueys from Vietnam.

Marko  

Grandad,

  Yeah, I guess I should call all 540 rotor equipped Army birds UH-C/M, but since most were C's i just usually call them Charlies.  The photos of C/M birds without the particale filters are almost certainly C's, however.  I believe all the one's I posted are C's.  The last two have nose mounted FM antannae as well (meaning they're too early to be a M).

    Ray
 

Marko,

  Great pics, man!  I alreay had the one of the 50 cal system, but the others are new.

"And as things are going here we might even come to see M21/M5 or M16/M5 armed Hueys :)"

  Funny you should mention that:

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The first three are the XM50 system and are pics from the Army Aviation Museum archive. The lower one is a pic of a M16/M5 system (the original version of the Monogram Huey Hog) from tha Squadron Gunslingers In Action book by Lou drendel.  All four of these birds are Charlie models.  They were the only ones with a chance in you know where of getting off the ground with this armament configuration (except for a UH-1M).  Notice the last bird is incorrectly identified as a Bravo model, but the 540 rotor head identifies it as a Charlie.  Alao, Bravo sported the T53 L9 and Charlie model had T53 L11 engine.  Mike model had a T53 L13.  Currently the holy grail of armamant pics is a picture of either one of these setups in the field.  I think all the pics above are of test birds, but i don't have much data on them.

  Ray
 

     Ray
 

Ray,

Good to see the M16/19-shooters combo too; I only have the M21/M200 photos that I already posted, but I am allways on the lookout for unusual/non-standard Huey configurations. So, if I find some more heavy M21 or M16 Huey photos I will certainly post them :) And as things are going here we might even come to see M21/M5 or M16/M5 armed Hueys :)

I got some new stuff for You guys though. The first set of images is of a UH-1B 63-08673 of the 117th Aviation Company (Air Mobile Light) from 1964/65. This bird was armed with the XM14 .50 cal gun pods. Each pod housed the M3 .50 cal MG with 750 rounds and a rate of fire of 1100-1250 rpm! Though the XM14 was a standardised piece of equipment it only saw limited use in Vietnam. In fact, I have only ever seen pictures of this particular UH-1B armed with XM14. I just love the early 117th tiger stripe camouflage! This Huey went under three different names: KARIN (painted on the nose), Cigar 6 (crossed cigars and 6 on both pilots doors) and Woody (don't know how this name came about).

The nose art included a small figure of a soldier in tiger stripe fatigues peeing red tracer fire on both door posts and what was supposed to be a stylized ''angry'' Huey on both XM14 pods.

Note that this Huey had a mkVIII sight mounted on the co-pilots side too and didn't have the armored seats yet, but early style armored panels.

The next image shows a UH-1B of the 68th Aviation Company (Armed Helicopter) (ex UTTHCO) at Soc Trang prior to a POW camp raid around Rach Gia in 1965. Note the door gunner is wearing a gas mask and the unusual XM3 system. This was a XM3 modified to dispense grenades; they could load 8 smoke, WP or CS grenades per tube. I remember reading about this grenade dispensing XM3 somewhere and it was initialy designed for laying smoke screens, but this is the only photo of it I've ever seen. Obviously the system is loaded with CS grenades in this photo. Does anybody have any additional info on this unusual system?

This is a Marine UH-1E TV29 of the HML-167 at Marble mountain in late 1970 armed with CBU-55 FAE cluster bombs. As far as I know only the Marines used this awesome weapon on helicopters operationaly (navy HA(L)-3 used a couple of UH-1L/HH-1K Hueys that had the capacity to carry CBU-55s, but for reasons unknown to me never used this weapons operationaly. They even installed specialized bomb sights in the chin bubbles, but...). CBU-55 was a 500-pound weapon containing three BLU-73 FAE submunitions and was used primarily against bunker and tunnel complexes. I believe there are a couple more images of CBU-55 armed UH-1Es on the ''popasmoke'' website.

I saw that You guys were discussing the mk115 mod 0 Helicopter Trap Weapon some time ago. Well, in case somebody decides to build a HTW armed UH-1E I dug a couple of drawings of the mk115 mod 0 with dimensions. mk115 was a modified mk63 60-pound 5-inch Zuni warhead. What they did is, they took the thin outer casing of the warhead, replaced the fragmentation cube liner with two layers of rectangular steel rods that were welded at alternate ends and attached the parachute and suspension lugs.

Marko    

Nah.. not impressed !

It was the Crew Chiefs job to ensure the pilot landed safely . He's just taking things a little to far.

Probably just trying to avoid a huey (indoor plant) situation.

Lets see him try that with a Chinook!! Now that would be impressive.

(bloody show off) .

Andy

.....or he's been at the spinach and using the tins to fit onto the side of the M60's!!

Rich