Unusual Vietnam Hueys

My son is a crewchief on A-10s with the 188th here in Fort Smith.  They have just started transitioning from F-16s.  While clearing out the hangers and shops of F-16 parts and tools, they came across 3 of these cans and were going to throw them out.  Like father, like son, he figured we could do SOMETHING with them.  He kept one and gave the others to me.

I thought about filling one with .223 ammo and the other with .308.  Then I thought, who is going to move those things around?   Oh well, I'll figure out something.

The 20mm can used for the last 25 years is the M548 and I'm sure it was used in Vietnam because we used to get rounds that were from that time frame. The dimensions are 18.6"L x 8.28"W x 14.6H"

Reddog

Cobrahistorian wrote:

Sure!  Took these this morning.  Still has a long way to go.  I wanna do the interior properly, so its going to take me a bit.  Started fabricating the map case on the back of the console with foil from the top of a wine bottle.  Gonna re-do the panels a little more accurately and I'm scratch-building the 40mm ammo can installation.  The bird I'm building didn't have the drum magazine.  Speaking of which, anyone know where I can find 20mm (yep, twenty millimeter) ammo cans in 48th scale?  I'm leaving the rotor head alone for the most part.  Just some minor touch ups here and there. Now to figure out the open rocket pods....

Hey, Jon.  Good luck with the "Hog".

I can get you some pics and measurements for the 20mm ammo can if you want to tackle scrachbuilding them.  That is if the modern AF type is the same as the one your needing.  I've got 2 sitting in the living room.

Anyway, let me know and I'll see what I can do for you.

Jon,

  Looking good!  Your a brave man to tackle the Monogram Hog.   I think I am going make mine a Bravo model using the rotorhead and rotor from one of the 1/48 D models (with appropriate counterweights, of course).  I have 5 of the blasted things so I can make a few mistakes!

    By the way, my dad has mentioned several times to me that the soundproofing on the back cabin wall was almost always missing on their birds.  Any idea how you would go about producing that effect with the molded soudproofing?  would you just sand it down flat and fill any gaps or is it just not worth it?  Maybe just scratchbuild the entire back of the cabin wall?  

  Since you've started taking pics early and documenting your progress, perhaps you should start a thread for all those poor souls that follow in your wake and wish to tame the savage beast that is the Monogram Hog.  I know I would be happy for any assembly tips you had to offer!

    Ray
 

Sure!  Took these this morning.  Still has a long way to go.  I wanna do the interior properly, so its going to take me a bit.  Started fabricating the map case on the back of the console with foil from the top of a wine bottle.  Gonna re-do the panels a little more accurately and I'm scratch-building the 40mm ammo can installation.  The bird I'm building didn't have the drum magazine.  Speaking of which, anyone know where I can find 20mm (yep, twenty millimeter) ammo cans in 48th scale?  I'm leaving the rotor head alone for the most part.  Just some minor touch ups here and there. Now to figure out the open rocket pods....

Jon,

  Nice pics of a poor bird.  Imagine, to have lived your life as a Charlie model gunship slinging 40mm rounds at VC all day only to end up as an Air Force hood ornament!  Sad, man.  How about a few pics of your progress on the monogram Charlie?

     Ray

I found this unusual Huey yesterday.  I stopped at the USAF Armament Museum down at Eglin AFB and expected to see a UH-1F or P.  Instead, I was treated to this sight. 

 

If it were "just" another Huey, I may not be so miffed about it, but this is a combat vet and it was configured with the M-5 weapons system.  The feed chute for the 40mm is still in the cabin, although the rest of it has been gutted.  Apparently the Air Force got a hold of this one and converted it to a QUH-1M, but never used it as a target.  So now its in some bogus markings, outside, exposed to the elements instead of in its original 114th or 175th AHC markings being preserved somewhere.   

In any case, actually got some work done on my 1:48th UH-1C tonight.  The Monogram kit needs a LOT of work, but the Cobra Co set has really helped it along quite a bit.  I added a non-rotating swashplate, sealed the ammo slots in the fuselage, added an upper beacon housing, removed and filled in the rectangle on the underside of the bird and will re-build that area correctly.  I cut both doors off as well and removed the ammo cans from the cockpit floor.  I'm building mine as 65-09507 from the 174th AHC and she flew with a Chunker and 7-shot pods.  Some incredible side art on her!

Jon

 

Andy,

  Check out the bottom of the first and the second pages in this thread.  That's as much as I know about the Helicopter Trap Weapon (HTW).  I finally downloaded ll the Echo pics from Popasmoke.  Now I have some ammo on Marine birds!

    Ray

  EDIT: lots of info on Helicopter Trap Weapons on Dr. Google!  I found this definition that might help:

"HELICOPTER TRAP WEAPON (HTW) MK 115 MOD 0 - RETARDED BOMB USED FOR CLEARING PROSPECTIVE HELICOPTER LANDING SITES. WHEN THE BOMB IMPACTS THE FUZE INSTANTANEOUSLY DETONATES THE WARHEAD, WHICH IN TURN REMOVES ANY VEGETATION FROM AN AREA LARGE ENOUGH TO LAND A HELICOPTER."

  That's just like a Marine to use a RETARDED bomb!  Go Army!! 

Ray,

I just posted this old link in another post, and thought it probably would fit into your thread nicely due to some of the pics. There are pictures of Marine UH-1Es with what was called a "Helicopter Trap" Bombs for want of a better word, full of welded rods that were dropped by parachute from a huey onto an LZ and would detonate and clear the area of anything over 4 inches high.

Anyway check out the site for a more detailed and interesting account of their use!!!

Any more info on their official name would be great.

http://www.popasmoke.com/visions/index.php?page=view&category=20

Andy

 

Ray,

To be honest i havnt seen many pictures of hueys with the Maxwell system. Apart from the picture i posted above, the few i have seen all sport 12 rockets on each side like you said.

I hadnt seen enough shots of the system to realise 18 rockets was unusual, but im glad it is, so heres a side shot .

Andy

Very cool shot Andy!  

I did a closeup inspection on the two TOW Hueys today.  553 is going to be put back in its original configuration and will be the centerpiece of a new exhibit in the museum.  I'm working with Steve to make sure it is done 100% correct!  Putting both 553 and 554 back into their original TOW configurations would be ideal, but they simply don't have the space for it.   In any case, 60-3553 (not 62-13553 as the VHPA reports) will be back on display by the end of the year in camo and with the proper accoutrements!

 

Jon 

 

Andy,

  Great pic!  I don't know if you realize it or not, but it is very unusual to see the Maxwell system rigged with 18 rockets per side.  All I have seen had the number of tubes reduced to 12 per side like the ARA bird I posted pics of above.  Nice find!

     Ray

Ray & Jon

Thanks for the great pics and info, It would be great to see the whole Blue Max history in print. Ive got a few 2/20 ARA huey pics here somewhere il try and dig them out. Heres a mean looking one to start with.

Andy.

Ray,

No worries man!  I've found several photos and labels that were incorrect in the Archives.  I just correct them and move on.  And I will say that the Blue Max guys are the absolute best!  I have never worked with a better group of guys, ever.  That goes from the beginnings of the unit through today.  Blue Max continues on today as C Company, 3-3rd Attack Reconnaissance Battalion, 3rd ID.  My IP in flight school was a Blue Max guy, my mentor was a Blue Max guy and my two "Guardian Angels" are Blue Max guys.  I'm working on a long-term project with one of them to tell the whole Blue Max history from beginning to the present.  I think at this point we've got several volumes worth of history.  

These guys from 2-20th ARA flew support in the Ia Drang Valley in 1965 and were the primary gunship CAS on station during the fight.  

By the way, check out PN9528 in the photo files.  Chief Snake helped me figure out her true identity and what unit she was with.  I'm building my Charlie model in those markings!

I definitely think I'm going to do an ARA bird with the rocket/M22 missile system.  That's just a cool configuration, and its ARA to boot!!

 

Jon 

Jon,

  Thanks for the info.  I just went with what was on the CD at the museum.  I figured the person who donated it put the labels on.  You mind me asking how you are so certain about the correct unit ID?  Oh well, I'll correct the post.  man, I'm jealous that you are still there copying files!

    Ray

Edit: Never mind, I get it. I think this paragraph from the Blue Maxx web site sums it up:

"There were only two ARA Battalions in the history of the Army that served in Vietnam.

 

The 1st Cav had the first ARA Battalion followed by the 101st AB.

---

Below are Col Nelson Mahone the 2/20th ARA Battalion commander and Major Roger Bartholomew who was the C Battery commander at the time this photo was taken and later became LTC and the BN commander of 4/77th 101st for his second tour. Col Nelson Mahone died 3/16/71 and was Posthumously inducted into Army Avn Hall of fame at Rucker. LTC Bartholomew was killed 11/27/68 on his second tour while attacking an enemy position North of Da Nang. There were several of the officers from 2/20th that either returned for a second tour in the ARA, some of which helped to form the 4/77th such as Col Bartholomew.

 

Major Roger Bartholomew and Col Nelson Mahone.[img]http://Photo taken 1965 or 1966, taken by C "Chip" W Parker who flew with Col Mahone

 

Because Col Nelson Mahone was the first BN Commander of 2/20th 1st Cav and Major Roger Bartholomew returned to Vietnam as a LTC and the first Bn Commander of the 4/77th 101st AB Division, this photo is important to the history of the ARA. F Btry 79th Artillery was just that, a Battery, activated in Vietnam and de-activated in Vietnam. Many of the former 2/20th Personnel and aircraft were used in this Battery. If you are looking for any of the Aerial Rocket Artillery (ARA) units, they are all here." Here's the link to the Blue Maxx website:http://www.bluemax-ara-assoc.com/  

 

Ray,

I just copied that CD yesterday. It is mis-labeled.  Those are NOT 4/77th birds.  They're from B Battery, 2-20 ARA, 1st Cav Division.  Some really neat birds in there too, like that earrrrrrly C model.  Both ARA units started off with Griffin nose art.  By 1968, the 2-20th had transitioned to the Cobra and Blue Max was born.  I'm already working on markings for some of those birds, along with some other stuff I've found recently.  Lets just say that the 250gig external hard drive is slowly but surely filling up.  

That Firefly bird is carrying an IR searchlight from an M-48 tank.  Pretty cool!

 

Jon 

Well it's time to rejuvenate this thread.  I have chosen some birds from the 4/77th ARA (actually, B Battery, 2-20 ARA, 1st Cav Division, thanks Jon) for this post.  These pics were all taken by a CWO Parker and donated to the Army Aviation Museum.  Let's start with a couple of UH-1B's sporting the Maxwell system:

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Note that this bird has the old style un-armored seats, but improvised armor has been added to the seat and the door. 

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This bird is in the midst of having the UNITED STATES ARMY repainted.  The pegs sticking off of the tailboom indicate that this ship carried a HF "high line" antenna.  Check out the red paint on the front of the skids.

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A very early version of a Firefly ship.  Note those red skids again.

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You might look at the two pics above and say "so what, its an M16 subsystem", but wait.  Check out the type of Huey they are on.  This bird has nose mounted antennas and the early VN air intakes without the partical separators so it's a B model, right?  Not so fast.  Check out the roof mounted pitot, the 540 rotor system, the assymetrical horizontal stabs, the wide chord tail rotor, the armament mount supports and the left handed fuel filler cap.  This is one of the earliest VN UH-1C pics I have ever seen.  Also, I can't even remember seeing a Charlie model armed with the M16 system.  Definitely unusual.

Finally, let's end this one with a couple of pics of B Battery, 2-20 ARA, Griffon nose art:

[img]http://[img]http://

Edit: I found this caption for the photo above at the VHPA museum site:

"WO1 Chip Parker  with one of the ARA acft flown in the Ia Drang Nov 65"

I thought you might like to know that, Andy. 

Both of these birds are Bravos sporting M3 24shot 2.75 inch rocket packs.  another words, they are both HOGS.  Enjoy!

Ray 

The man has a point!

Of course, you're the guy who got me on the Huey kick that I'm on now!  

 Jon
 

Jon,

  The AH-56 is cool and all, but the experimental Huey sported TWIN 30mm's.  Can any other US helo claim that distinction!?

    Ray

Awww come on.  The Huey's cool and all, but if you're gonna show an XM140 cannon, at least put it in proper context! ;)

Andy,

  Sorry, I didn't make it to the Vietnam Memorial at Rucker, but I did spend several days with the aviators themselves, and that was a very sobering experience.  This stuff is history to us, but its part of their lives.  

  The system you posted is the XM-6E3 quad 60 subsystem coupled with the MA-2 2.75 in Spin Stabalized Folding Fin Aerial Rocket (SSFFAR) subsystem (also known as Mighty Mouse rockets).  It was in use very early in the war (~1963).  I'll try to post more pics of the system later.

Rich,

  You can have the 20mm.  I'm more inclined to go with the XM140 30mm.  This bad boy is the great grandad of the AH-64's M230:

This pic from TACOM site

Here's what the system was supposed to lok like on the HUEY (called XM30 system):

[img]http://" border="0" /> 

And here is what it actually looked like on a HUEY (all other pics from Army Aviation Museum):

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and with the faring in place:

[img]http://[img]http://

 

here's a color pic of the XM30 system:

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Here are a couple of pics showing the pair of XM140's from the front and back (note all these pics are of UH-1C's):

[img]http://[img]http://

 

And I will end this post with what may be one of the coolest pics I have found yet.  a XM30 armed bird rockin' and rollin' in flight!

[img]http://

What do you reckon that feels like in a HUEY?!

   Ray
 

Ray,

Thank you so much for sharing the pictures you found from your visit to FT.Rucker, You are now an invaluable source of pictoral information for anyone stuck on my side of the Atlantic and anyone without access to the Army Aviation Museum. Did you get to see the Vietnam War memorial for aviators? From what i have read its quite a sobering experience.

I look forward to future posts and seeing more pictures from your collection.

Anyway im not to sure if this unusual but i dont think ive seen rockets mounted this high before.

Andy

 

Jon,

 I figured they were the same system, but I know better than to make assumptions anymore.  Also, the 121st pics don't show the fan blades or the markings of your pic so I couldn't be sure.

        Ray
 

Ray,

That's probably the bird that I posted pics of as it was getting the equipment installed!

Very cool stuff!

 

Jon
 

Jon,

  Nice sprayer pic!  Here are some more of a sprayer being installed by the 121st at An Thiot, RVN on july 27 or 28, 1968.  The drum is fiberglass according to the info provided.  Photos are by SP6 Eugene Randon courtesy of Army aviation Museum.

[img]http://[img]http://[img]http://

 

I'll leave you with the same system Jon posted above during testing phase at Ft. Rucker:

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   Thanks for the pics Ray!

Now I want that Huey B with 2x20mm :-))))

 Andy

 

Too cool guys!  Here's another one, this time from the 121st AHC website.

Chief,

  Glad you like the pics.  It's about time these pics saw the light as there are thousands of incredible images just sitting around waiting to be discovered.  I can't say enough about how much I appreciate the help I recieved from museum diector Steve Maxham an his staff!

     Ray

Good stuff! Thanks!

 

Chief Snake 

Chief,

  Your GoGo bird's coming along nicely!  I'm glad the pics helped.  It's so rare that I can be of assistance to you that I thought I would post all the other M24A1 pics I have, including a couple from Easy Money.  They are all courtesy of the Army Aviation Museum.

       Ray
 

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