Unusual Vietnam Hueys

Kenneth,

 What pic exactly are you referring to?  

    Ray

Dear supercobra - can you pl reload picture

E-mail sent. 

   Ray

How do you PM on this site

Thanks for your service, sir.  Shoot me a PM with your e-mail address and I will send you a high res version of the image you can make a print from.  The original is part of the Army Aviation Museum archives.

   Ray  

I have been looking for a photo of 61-719 hauling another UH-1B for a long time. I was XO of the 102nd Transportation Company at Fort Bragg, NC. We were part of the 82nd Aviation Bn., part of the 82nd Airborne Division. UH-1B 61-719 was assigned to our unit. One of the first things we did was replace the T53-5 engine with our spare engine, a T53-9A for additional horse power.

The UH-1B company was experiencing hot starts which would melt the turbines and the 102nd would have to get the helicopters moved back to Simmons AAF by land. Most of the moves resulted in additional damage which required additional down time. Capt. Barker, CO of the 102nd, felt that we could sling load a UH-1B with no additional damage. 

The first time we tried this method, we were successful. Capt Barker flew 61-719 and I flew the support UH-1B in which we put the main blades through the open doors. We did not remove the tail rotor or horizontal stabilizers. We did drain the fuel. I don't remember removing the rotor head during the first lift. It was not in the support ship. We had the Bn. photographer film the procedure, but when we tried to get an air to air shot, he was out of film. This was in late 1962. We accomplished it again in early 1963, but I was not available to fly the support ship. An air to air photo was taken then and appeared in the "Army Times".

This photo is said to have been taken in late 1963, I left the 102nd in March, 1962. When I was with the 102nd, we did not have the AA logo on the tail and there is a new antenna mounted on front of the rotating beacon.

We used the lifting cable for moving the UH-1Bs in the hangar by overhead crane. It attached to the main mast. 

If someone has the original photo used in this posting, I would appreciate a copy.

Thanks

Those are awesome pics but the top pic is a UH-1A and the bottom two are a UH-1B.  Check the shortened rotor mast on the Alpha and bottom facing blade counterweights.  Stressed tail booms were common to early Hueys, especially the Alphas.  Here are some other Alpha pics showing the same stress marks.  The color shot is from Robert Reuter who commanded UTT in 1962 and the second one is another UTT shot from the USAAM archives.

    Ray

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Wij17ooMOlw/T3uX_YCYa6I/AAAAAAAAMiM/P2fXBUpPtws/s800/PICT4391.JPG

How about this early UH-1B from UTTHCO? You can see in the  images the same ship with camouflage applied though the weapons stations are modified as was the rotor head. You can tell it's the same B by the identical marks on the stressed tail. (Correction they are UH-1A models from Reuter's slides.

Rotorwash:

You say your Dad was with the 190th Assault Helicopter Company 3rd Gunship Platoon "Gladiators". Well I want you and everyone to know what I found online last night on google. I found a new website that is selling all the Assault Helicopter Companies that serviced in Vietnam Pocket Patches and the have your Dad's patch and both of the 190th's patches, the red "Spartans" patch and also the white "Gladiators" Gunship patch. They are really nicely done and the best part of it all is they are affordable. Here's the info on the site; it's called Patch Quartermaster  and their url is "www.patchquartermaster.com ". Take a look, I think you will like what they have for sale. I purchased several of my units patches and they were great and affordable. They even have the Cobra Hall Gold Pin issued at Fort Rucker to Cobra Pilots. Check them out, you wont be sorry.

Big Snake 8

Awhile back someone requested images of the interior of the INFANT gunship.

Here are some plus a little more meat. If your like me you constantly search for anything on these particular gunships as well as the units that tested them in Vietnam.

Good detail of the camera 11th CAB Phu Loi 1970

Loading up 2.75" rockets pre-mission Phu Loi 11th CAB 1970

Here is the cherry on top for us modelers.

flight line Phu Loi 11th CAB 1970 as the ship gets ready to head out for some live fire testing

Last one, the mini guns giving someone a hard night of it. Good detail of the IR spotlight

Hopefully this will fill in the gap missing on the INFANT DET

The 'People Sniffer" was a UH-1D/H with a scoop just under the nose with a tube that ran up to a unit mounted on the center beam inside the cockpit. The actual unit that measure the levels sat on the rear floor. Known as the Airborne Personnel Detector Unit the "People Sniffer" made it's rounds in Vietnam.

This series is from September 1967 B Troop, 1st Squadron, 9th Cav, 1st Air Cav Division outside of An Khe near LZ Two Bits. Photos US Army Signal Corps.

This is the nose mounted unit with the air hose that effectively 'sniffed' up the smell of Victor Charlie. Or more often than not Elephants or monkeys.

I am not sure if these have been posted as it's been awhile since I visited the forums. I've been building out 3D flyable gunships.

This is a UH-1C that features the Low Level Light Television that was tested out by the 320th Signal Detachment (Avionics), 334th AHC in October of 1967. Photos US Army Signal Corps

LLTV mounted to the M21 Universal Arm

The weapons look weird but the helicopter is fine

i gotta say the weapons look weird but the heli is fine

At last one picture of the interior , thanks rotorwash !

I don't know for how long I've been searching for interior pics of this bird .

My guess that the ammo chutes (I thing it should be two,one for each gun) would be similar to the M5 system is finally disproved .

I wanted to build a UH-1E with the turret since I saw the first MRC UH-1C Huey in 1:35 .

I even machined my own turret dummy to have something to attach the plastic sheet onto , but the interior is still a  mystery to me !

Can someone please help me with this not  'unusual' Huey , but still a kind of mysterious configuration ?

I think I'm getting close to the mystery missile.

What I think I know so far is this. I think it's a test missile, it's orange, it's not a production model. It's definitely something that was never in service. But it was part of a program that either was a dead end or the beginning of something else.

It could be a few models that I read about that never entered service, but cannot find a picture. I have to find out first about how long it was. Judging by the fuselage of the Huey I have to estimate that. Then try to match it up with something that makes sense.

It could be a hybrid Using a body with different fins and a different seeker. It's not a TOW for sure. But it could be the test missile for a hellfire type missile but using a different type of seeker or body. I read about using a sidewinder as an anti-tank missile firing off a Huey, I think there was a picture. Maybe I saw it here???

If I can't find a picture I will find some thing that makes sense. Identify the tube length, then the fins and then the seeker. Is it IR, is it laser guided? I have seen the rear fins and tube on other missiles. It's the overall length and the fins in the middle that make it unidentifiable. I don't think it's wire guided, it's probably either laser or heat.

I don't think it would be a mini Harpoon, that's anti shipping and Navy stuff. I don't think it makes sense to launch an anti radiation missile off a chopper, that's for the fast movers to attack radars. So it's almost definitely an anti-tank missile by reason of logical deduction.

regarding the Mystery Missile.  best of luck finding info.  I have tried for 4 years.  What i can tell you is that the Hellfire was tested on a Huey and I do have pics of that.

Regarding the UH-1E with the TAT 101 turret.  One of the reasons it's hard to find pics and info is that the system sucked.  It was unreliable and jammed so frequently that it was removed on almost all in-country birds soon after the UH-1E's appearance in Vietnam.  Here are some official Bell photos of the setup that might help with details.

   Ray

Here's a shot if the center console on a TAT-101 armed UH-1E.  On eof the things I don't see is the ammo chute running along the floor like you would see in the M5 system.  I admit I don't know how it was configured, but definitely not like the M5 system.

Here's a view from the front:

Great pictures KrazyCat !!! Do you have something similar for the UH-1E with the TAT-101 ?

I've been searching for a very long time but I just can't find anything .

So everybody here I need your help ! Where can I get any information about this USMC chopper ???

WOW awesome thread. I was interested in maybe doing some Vietnam era choppers but now, no way. I'll stick to armor but I do have a 1/35 Loach I am going to do to go along with some CAV armor stuff.

So nobody could identify the orange missile fired. I have seen that picture before a long, long time ago. It was not a hellfire for sure. The orange color probably meant it was a test missile. It looks like a Maverick but smaller. I am going to look and see if I can find out. If it's out there I'll find it eventually.........

The reason I am interested is that it kinds of gets to me, I saw that pic a long time ago, before there were computers and the internet. As soon as I saw it here I recognized it and when nobody identified it it got to me. It's like on the tip of my tongue, I remember it, I saw it somewhere and it's bugging me. I think I saw it before I even knew there was a Hellfire. I mean I saw it a long, long time ago as I have been studying weapons and warfare since I was a kid and I'm 55.

So the search starts.

Keep this thread going it's one of the best I ever read and I am totally into the Vietnam era weaponry, warfare and history.

SpotterXY

Any infos on the painting of this dust offs? The helicopters were designated HU-1A so it has to be a quite early photograph. Maybe this pic wasn't taken in RVN?

I noticed that the ROKs fly medevac Blackhawks with a similar sheme today.

They are HU/UH-1As from Korea when the 1 CAV was still there.  1 Cav moved to Ft Benning in '64 and redesignated as the 1st Cavaly Division (Airmobile), a.k.a. 1st Air Cav, then went to Vietnam in '65.

The yellow-banded helos are also flown by the US, mainly MedEvac, but cargo too.  The yellow bands are required under the '53 UN Cease-Fire Agreement.  The bands denote a non-aggresive aircraft and only yellow-banded aircraft can fly into the DMZ.

US UH-60 MedEvac in Korea from '04.

UH-1D/H models also wore the stripes, from '72:

If you want to build one, check out Floyd's new Blackhawk Decal Sheets.

Thanks for info...noted.

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Any infos on the painting of this dust offs? The helicopters were designated HU-1A so it has to be a quite early photograph. Maybe this pic wasn't taken in RVN?

I noticed that the ROKs fly medevac Blackhawks with a similar sheme today.

"Don't know if these are USN or USMC choppers."

They're UH-1Es from VMO-6.

I really don't remember where this pic is from. Maybe from the no longer existing TACOM site but I'm not sure. I guess if there would have been a story/caption with more infos to the photo I could remember.

Any infos why the XM31 ship went down?

Top pic is the XM31 on a 2/20th ARA bird.  They tested the system in country. These are from Jerry Brooks and show what became of that bird.

The bottom pic is a US Army Aviation Test Board UH-1B fitted with the XM3 system and test equipment.  I don't know the particulars of what is in the cabin, but the bright orange is a dead giveaway that it's a test aircraft.  As for the cables, my guess would be they go to TV cameras that will record the flight of the rockets.  You can see that the skids are tied down so this was a static test of some type.  Mind if I ask where the photo is from?  It might help shed light on what was being tested. HTH

    Ray

Thanks for this info. Much appreciated!

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Found some shots with XM31 in here but none with the cover on so I thought I'd add this.

And a thing that puzzles me like years. What's in the back of this ARA and why the cables and extra struts on the skids?

The Navy Seawolves (HAL-3) operated the UH-1B's early and were getting some C's and later some M's also from the Army.  The larger engine for the M was in demand by everyone so the navy was low on the totum pole.

The Seawolves eventually got thier own Navy order of 6 UH-1L's and HH-1K's that had the larger -13 engine.

Since everybody was scrambling for Hueys of all stripes and especially the larger engined versions, the Navy seemed to stay with the Army equipment and the Marines went with the purpose build UH-1E's (both B and C rotorheads with the -11 engine) as well as some borrowed UH-1B's from the Army.

Regards
Steve

Yes, think you're right. The Navy also operated some "hand me down" Army gunships but these were actually B models as far as I know.

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An other defoliant version.

Note: This version seems to use airflow (pressure) to spray the defoliants and not a propeller driven pump like other versions.

These are probably USMC Echo models.

@ loachman: I thought the armament was more common as there are quite a couple of pics of diffrent helicopters available. I know about the XM8 configuration and even have some pics of it but think it was only experimental and I'm not sure if it actually was even used incountry?

I always thought the OH-6 was quite powerfull but didn't know about this limits. I was told the Bo-105 uses the same engine and this helicopter surely isn't underpowered. The German PAH (anti-tank) version carries six HOT missiles without a problem but then I'm not sure if they were talking of the OH-6A when they talked about the engine.

I guess the two scans are showing a CONUS test maybe at Ft. Rucker. I also never saw this config used on US Hueys but as we know the Aussies used it on their Bushrangers. I remember I had a Roco modelkit in 1:87 as I was a child which you could build in that config.

I didn't want to believe that spent casing could be a problem with gravity and the downwash until a former Bushranger crewmember told me otherwise.

@ rotorwash: I know the VHPA website and have downloaded quite a couple of stuff from there. Think I've the PDF you linked somewhere in my collection already.

I actually can't make out the tail-boom extension but I'm not a pro on that am happy that I can halfway designate the diffrent Huey versions. Where to look exactly?

Thanks for the pointing out that other thread. Think I can also contribute something to that one. Thanks for the welcome, too. Always nice to meet some people with the same interests and to chat with.

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A really rare photo with two C models (?) equipped with the TK2 mounts and TAT 101 (Tactical Armament Turret) under the chin. Don't know if these are USN or USMC choppers.

Closeup of an TK2 mount only used by the Navy and Marine Corps.

Holy resurrected threads, Batman!  It seems like a hundred years ago that I started this thread.

Regarding the early MA-2 rockets, I have some pics of Cletus Heck working with the system here somewhere.  I'll just have to dig them up.  Unfortunately, I believe he was KIA on his second tour.  The best source I have seen for pics and info on the earliest Vietnam weapon systems is "Army Gunships in Vietnam" by Bob Chenoweth.  Definitely worth a look.  Also, go HERE for a nice piece on early UTT aircraft and armament.  By the way UTTHCO was the Utility Tactical Transport Helicopter Company and these guys basically wrote the book on armed helicopter tactics in Vietnam.  The Uh-1B above with the XM14 50 cal pod is a UTT bird.  They also experimented with cammo patterns so if you see a cammo bird with crossed sabres on the door, it's probably UTT.

The YUH-1D (you can see the tail boom extension that was added behind the fuselage) with the XM6 quad 60 system on it was strictly a test bird and no US Army long cabin Hueys were ever fitted with the system in country.

Regarding the Loach questions, Andy (Skypirate) started a non- Huey Unusual Vietnam helo thread.  Check HERE for lots of info on weird Loaches and other oddballs.

  Ray

PS: Welcome to the boards Spotter!