Where are the Blackhawk fans?

thanks for the info arty. like i said this is an old kit, and it just didn't seem right. i'll make it without the hellfires just for the fact that it would look odd, and i wouldn't have the proper decals to make it a spec-op bird. one more thing about the ESSS. you said that these were rarely used as well, and only on a few medivac birds. when i was in germany doing exercises in hohenfels, my squad once jumped on a blackhawk that had the ESSS with fuel tanks on. kinda crazy i thought since we had to move around it and not bump our head on it in a "hot" zone. so would one with the ESSS and troop configured be out of place as well?

also, i can't seem to remember the color of the interior in the troop area. the instructions call for light gull gray. is this right?

roosterpelo wrote:

thanks for the info arty. like i said this is an old kit, and it just didn't seem right. i'll make it without the hellfires just for the fact that it would look odd, and i wouldn't have the proper decals to make it a spec-op bird. one more thing about the ESSS. you said that these were rarely used as well, and only on a few medivac birds. when i was in germany doing exercises in hohenfels, my squad once jumped on a blackhawk that had the ESSS with fuel tanks on. kinda crazy i thought since we had to move around it and not bump our head on it in a "hot" zone. so would one with the ESSS and troop configured be out of place as well?

UMMMM...... sorry to interrupt; but, ESSS with troop seats is ok. We had mostly UH-60L but a couple of Alphas in my unit. ESSS is a mission dictated accessory, although mostly overseas. I heard CONUS units kept it off as much as possible. But, in Germany we kept the wings on most of the aircraft, and tanks were optional or mission dictated. When we had 8 acft, maybe 6 had ESSS installed and the other 2 were slicks. when we increased our acft, the company split the 2 platoons as individual missions. 1 was VIP support and the other was general support. it was pretty much the same during deployments, but the division between platoons pretty much blended out.

We did do troop insertions with tanks on (only in training), but usually took off the tanks. Troops got knocked out with just the rear tip of the inboard horizontal support. I had to pick up a guy off the ground back into the aircraft (during a training mission in either Graf or Hoensfel), because he knocked himself out jumping out from the front troop seats and he dented the fairing with his kevlar. he got his *** reamed since that was a BIG emphasis during the PAX brief.

BUT! Alphas and Limas can carry all 11 troop seat, wings and tanks. Alphas were just restricted in maneuverability due to the less power engines.

And the interior... the color Italeri calls for the inside of the Huey models is the same tone of gray we had in our cabins with the addition of black grip strips on the floor.

thanks for that info kris. all of this is making sense to me, i just didn't know the variations and dynamics of the different models. as an infantryman myself, like i said i remember inserting into hohenfels with the ESSS and tanks on, and as you stated, was a major part of the PAX briefing to watch your head and not run ito it, (not so easy at night though). and i have never seen the ESSS being used in combat with troop insertions as you also stated. i'm probably still going to leave mine off, or i might decide later on in the building stage that it might look better with it on. who knows. i know for a fact that i'll leave off the rockets, just because i have never really saw one with it on even thought i know that they exist. i went ahead with gunship gray for the interior since i thought, in my opinion, that light gull gray was a tad bit too light, and since i'm doing helo olive drab on the outside, it might stick out as way too light, almost whitish. i don't think i will be worried about the black nonslip strips on the floor as this is a very cheap kit, and i just don't have the patience to put so much effort in a half a** kit. nothing too fancy, just a nice paint job, and as much detailing as i can do with a cheaper kit. the seats are even wrong. its like they are made of upright  metal backed seats. not looking like the nylon seats that i have seen, or the breakaway seats, that absorb the shock upon impact. so if i was to put the nonskid strips, i might as well scratch build a whole slew of new seats. i'll just work with what i have, and might add some seat buckles with foil. i plan on buying a nice kit of a black hawk in the future, and from lessons learned on this project, i'll super detail it. thanks for the help kris

sure no problem.

If you have good enough seat, try this for the color. the frames are the same as the cabin, with usually alot of rub mark in between the seat frames. The canvas a darker gray. The attach points to the upper support bar, maybe titanium metalizer, definately no aluminum, that's too shinny. I don't think I have pictures of the seats, but depending on the scale you are building, I can make some rough sketches for details that are obvious for the real thing. Can you post a picture of the seats you have? maybe we could figure something out.

Thanks for the futher info.  As to the ESSS, all my experience is stateside, Korea, and Iraq.  I have never seen ESSS installed except on MedEvac birds or for long ferry flights.  What I meant by no troop seats was on a SOAR MH-60L DAP with short ESSS.  They usually don't bother with the troop seats to allow for more cargo space and quick ingress/egress.  I never meant to imply that the troop seats couldn't be carried w/ESSS installed.

kris, thanks for the help, but i really wouldn't want to waste your time with trying to get the seats looking good. i think the copyright on the kit is 1987, and like i said, by looking at the box, its a very old kit. nothing like good mould technology or making parts that go together with ease like DML now makes. there is more filler and putty on the model than there is plastic. i'm basically just building it to hang up on my sons ceiling in his room, but i have to try to make it nice, that's the modelers code. no weathering, just as close as possible for the correct colors, and painting the interior, finito'. but i am planning on buying a nice newer kit soon and if i need your help, i'll deffinatly give you a ring. i can't decide f i want to do a blackhawk, a pavelow, chinnok, or sea stallion. guess i'll have to shop around. once again, thanks for all the help you guys have been.

chris

I did found a Revell 1/48 blackhawk that I had work on a year ago, but first there a puma who's calling me.

Here's a stupid question, Are all blackhawk black? cause mine is olive drap.

T-rex wrote:

I did found a Revell 1/48 blackhawk that I had work on a year ago, but first there a puma who's calling me. Here's a stupid question, Are all blackhawk black? cause mine is olive drap.

 

Sorry, but the name Blackhawk has nothing to do with the color. The only black-Hawks I've seen are the DEA, U.S. Customs, and Homeland Security Hawks with the gold stripes along the sides. Army Blackhawks are olive drab or US Army Helo drab or something in between depending on age, wear, and tare. But, I think there are exceptions to this. I have not seen the exceptions personally with the exception of the HMX-1 Hawks, Pave Hawks, Seahawks, Jayhawks, Foreign-Hawks, the UN White-Hawks (no longer around), and wait... I think the 160th are black, not 100% on that one.

I think the 160th are black, not 100% on that one.

Yes, the 160th SOAR (Spec Ops Aviation Regt) MH-60Ls and MH-60Ks (MH/AH-6s as well) are overall flat black.  These are the only US Army H-60s that are black.  All other Army Hawks are some variation of Helo Drab Green as mentioned above.

Actually roosterpelo, the Academy/MRC kits are some of the better & more accurate Blackhawk kits around - despite the age. I have this kit too & have been contemplating what to do about the ESSS pylons as well. FYI, MRC have also released the Kilo & Lima variants of this bird if the thought of a Night Stalker slick or DAP takes your fancy. Go for a trawl through this site & you'll find Gino's take on the quality of the Academy/MRC kits... You may want to spend just a bit more time on your model

At what point did the colour for U.S. Army helos change to Helo Drab? This 'hawk thread prompted me to start thinking about my Alpha model, the colour it should be painted, & I guess operational duties.

And.....was it only the Alpha's that had the angled rear stab? 

Helo Drab came about in the late '70s when helos started coming back from depot rebuild in Helo Drab Green.  All UH-60s came from the factory in Helo Drab Green.

 

The pointed stabilator is used on UH-60Ls as well.  The square, folding stabilator is used on Army Spec Ops MH-60Ls, MH-60Ks, and the new UH-60M; USAF MH/HH-60Gs, USCG HH-60Js, and most US Navy hawks.

Thnx Gino. I knew I could rely on you for the info

Just to make Gino's point, here is a a JUH-60A (you can see the experimental equipment in orange) from 1978 (specifically, 78-23012) and she's sportin' helo drab.  this bird is from the first large batch of Hawks the Army ordered.

   Ray

 

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HeavyArty wrote:

Helo Drab came about in the late '70s when helos started coming back from depot rebuild in Helo Drab Green.  All UH-60s came from the factory in Helo Drab Green.   The pointed stabilator is used on UH-60Ls as well.  The square, folding stabilator is used on Army Spec Ops MH-60Ls, MH-60Ks, and the new UH-60M; USAF MH/HH-60Gs, USCG HH-60Js, and most US Navy hawks.

we used to tell the pre-ranger guys that the openings on the folding stabilators were for quick roof top extractions, so we didn't have to get the whole aircraft over the roof. and when we got the high freq "towel rack" antennae, we told them that was for quick water operation extraction when we worked with the SEAL and Frog teams. 

you kill me gino