UH-1B/C RAN....help needed.

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Boomer,

  I'm not sure exactly which antenna that is on the roof.  However, here are the features that identify this bird as a UH-1B (again assuming that the RAN didn't get any Navy or Marine Hueys).   The blue arrow points to the blade counterweights.  The yellow arrow to the symmetrical narrow chord horizontal stabs.  The green arrow points to the nose mounted pitot. Fianlly, the red arrow points to teh right handed fuel filler cap.  This bird is defnitely NOT a Charlie model.  I hope that helps.

     Ray
 

Boomer,

  I feel you pain about the confusion between B and C models.  I was trying to keep things simple.  The earliest C models had the bell mouth intake, however, NO C model that I have ever seen had a nose mounted pitot and NO B model I have ever seen had a roof mounted pitot. I will never say never because somebody will surely post a pic proving me wrong, but it's as close to a rule as I can find.  The one feature that will definitively distinguish a B from a C is the fuel filler location.  The Bravo has the fuel filler on the right side and the Charlie has the fuel filler on the left side.  Also, the 540 rotor system is significantly different from the 204 rotor system.  There are many misslabeled photos in refs so you have to be careful.  For instance, many UH-1B's suffered from cracked tail booms during Vietnam.  Many of these were replaced with UH-1C tailbooms which had a wider chord tail.  However, these birds still retained the narrow chord horizontal stabs and the 204 rotor system of a B model.  Also, the particle seperator was used on both B and C models even though some refs indicate it was a difference between the two.  Nose mounted FM antennae on US Army birds were found mostly on UH-1B's.  However, UH-1C's early in production had them as well.  There is no way to give you all the info you probably want in a few paragraphs.  All of this stuff has been hashed out here in the forums and your best bet is to go to the Huey Threads link and start surfing.  There are tons of photos with good documentation that will help you learn the differences between the two.  By the way, you are correct that Charlie models were less common than Bravos.  The C model was an interim model between the B model and the AH-1G Cobra gunship.  That is one reason why I don't think the RAN ever flew Charlies, at least until after VN.  Like I say, though, I Never say Never!

    Good luck,

           Ray
 

   These pics of 893 and 898 also show an antenna of some sort on the roof. It is not present on all RAN Huey's either. Just another something to confuse me......LOL. 

   Oh, i did read somwhere once, another forum maybe or another site that white ensgins were never on the drop tanks. 893 has them.....

   Boomer...

  Well, now i am really not sure what is a B or what is a C when it comes to RAN Huey's......lol. You say that pic of the crashed 895 is not a C because it does not have a roof mounted pitot. Other references i have showing C models don't have roof mounted pitot's either. They show a single small pitot just below the co-pilots windscreen.........the more pics i find the harder it is to tell. It appears that either air intake system could be fitted to eithe model. One of my references states that the C was quite rare.

  My HAWKEYE MODELS decal sheet shows 895 as a C model but with a filter intake instead of a scoop. The book VAMPIRE, MACCHI AND IROQUOIS IN AUSTRALIAN SERVICE shows it(and incidentally as a C model) with a scoop as in the crash photo. So i am confused.....

  Its a bummer about the rotor. I had the old Esci UH-1D years ago. It got broken up and went to model heaven. Just proves you should never throw anything out! Ok, just to set the story straight. It went out in a blaze of glory. It was hovering above my bed and was taken out by enemy AA (mum making my bed...lol). A total write off. 

  Right then, i am set on modelling 898. It is close to the kit i have and being on the airshow circuit for years, there are plenty of pics around.

  Oh by the way Rotorwash, your post had a square with a red box in it. I just assumed that one of your pics didn't turn out.

  Boomer...

Boomer,

  When you say the first pic didn't come out, do you mean the picture of the UH-1B roof or the link to the pictures?

Assuming the RAN never got the Marine or Navy Huey models mentioned earlier, the photo  is of a UH-1B with a roof mounted winch.  It is definitely not a Charlie model.  There is no roof mounted pitot (charcteristic of the C model) and the rotor head is the typical 204 rotor head found on Bravos as opposed to the 540 rotor charcteristic of the Charlie.  Also note that this bird has the bell mouth intake not the particle separator found on the bird you are building.

  So your building in 1/48.  The monogram kit is an OK starting point, but you have some mods to make in order to get an accurate B model.  Unfortunately, the kit is a mixture of both B and C features.  There are several threads on this forum dealing with converting the HUEY HOG to either a B or C, but here are a few tips.  First off, your lucky in my estimation that you are building a Bravo.  The kit comes with a B model tail and horizontal stabs.  The roof mounted pitot tube should be left off and a nose mounted one scratchbuilt.  The particle seperator for your bird is also in the kit.  The one major issue is the rotor.  the rotor that comes in the kit is the 540 rotor found on Charlies but not on Bravos.  The B model also has a rotor chord of 21 inches vs. 27 inches for the C model.   My suggestion is to get a rotor from a UH-1D ESCI or Italeri kit.  The rotor head will work great and the blade is the right chord.  Unfortunately, the diameter of the blades are 4 scale feet too long (44ft-B model vs. 48 ft.-D model).  Other than shortening the blades,  you only need to add the blade counterweights and you are in buissness.  If you need pics of some of this stuff, just give a holler.  good luck!

    Ray
 

  Thanks for the help so far guys..

  The kit i have is the old Monogram Huey Hog in 1/48 scale. It is an old kit and needs lots of clean up and TLC.  As far as i can see it close enough to a RAN UH-1B. Adding the roof hoist and motor housing should make it look more like a RAN bird.

  Someone from here sent me an email to my private address with some very useful pics and diagrams. One pic i already have in my collection, but your line drawings were perfect. Thanks whoever you are on here..........lol. Here they are....

  Line drawings of the hoist set up...

   And a great shot of the roof. This is a C model right?

  Rotorwash.....  Thanks for the pics. The first one didn't come out though. You mentioned about the narrow chord stabs and rotors. What does the Monogram kit have in it? I would not be able to tell the difference myself.

   Boomer...

Boomer,

   My records show the Australian Navy purchasing both UH-1B's and UH-1C's but not UH-1L, TH-1L, UH-1E's or HH-1K's.  In any event, the kit you will modify should be a UH-1B and NOT a UH-1C.  The photos of 898 clearly show the narrow chord horizontal stabs, narrow chord blade, blade counterweights, and nose mounted pitot tube characteristic of the B model.  There is no kit of the TH-1L, UH-1L, HH-1K or UH-1E in any scale that I am aware of.  The rescue hoist is exactly the same as that seen on UH-1E's, HH-1K's, etc.  Here is a photo page with at least one decent shot of the hoist:

http://apma.org.au/reference/ranfaa/huey/huey.html 

Also, 898 has the later style particle seperator instead of the bell mouth intake seen in most of the pics in the link above.  Let us know what scale you are building in and maybe we can point you to the right kits.  In any event, your bird will basically be a B model with a rescue hoist.  Here are a roof shot of a B model:

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Here's a closeup of the particle seperator on a UH-1M (UH-1C with T53-L13 engine).  This type seperator was also retrofitted to B models:

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Let us know the specifics of what you need and someone here will surely post more pics.  Also try searching the forum for the Navy and Marine Hueys (check the Huey Links thread).  Good luck with your build and keep us posted!

   Ray
 

   Thanks very much Gino. I have a few pictures in my collection and they are mostly like yours. Distant shots that don't show lots of detail. 898 is the bird that i want to build. It serves with the RAN Historic Flight and i have seen it at airshows before. I am not sure if it is still flying. I may pay the RAN Museum at HMAS Albatross a visit over Xmas and get some close ups. 

   Any pics are good pics, so again, thanks so much!!

   Boomer...

Here are a few pics that show the roof area and winch.  This one looks like a Naval model, but is still the same basic set-up. 

Hope that helps.