Diorama "The Longest Day"

I'll quote MM's famous line "But Anything is possible"

Mikeym_us wrote:

The Duplex drive tanks had the propeller and collapsable skirts but no snorkel. The tanks that had the special wading gear came off of LCVPs or off of LST's.

Point of order Mr Chairman ...

At Normandy, the assault-wave Shermans with wading gear were launched off LCTs.

LCVPs had a cargo capacity of 8100 pounds.   A LCVP could carry 34 assault troops with gear ,  a Jeep-sized vehicle, or a similar weight of cargo.   A LCVP could not carry a Sherman (well it could,  but not for very long). :-(

A LCM-3 could carry 60,000 pounds which means that it could carry a Sherman.  However, if the Sherman was loaded for combat, with full ammo, full fuel,  plus other strap-on items the LCM would not have sufficient reserve buoyancy to land the tank on the beach through the surf.  (A myth foisted on modelers by Airfix and perpetuated by Dragon).   At Normandy, the assault-wave LCMs were troop carriers, capable of landing 50 to 60 troops ashore.

 

MOTS. (More of the same.)

MattSix wrote:

I am no D-Day expert, but I noticed a few things: 1- The tank is "buttoned-up." This implies they are "taking fire." If so, then why is there no sense of urgency with the infantry? Also if they are under fire, wouldn't the infantry use the tank for cover? 2-Hardly any of the "funnies" made it to shore in the first wave. Most of them sank in the rough surf. Those that did make it, landed at the wrong beaches. If this was one of those tanks it would have the collapsable skirting, snorkels, and props attached. 3-This scene could be of a tank landing later in the day from a LST. Then the hatches would be open with the crew exposed, and the infantry would be walking along side. No matter what the scenario, the whole scene just doesn't "feel" right.

The Duplex drive tanks had the propeller and collapsable skirts but no snorkel. The tanks that had the special wading gear came off of LCVPs or off of LST's.

Overall, I really like the diorama itself. The water effects alone are very impressive. But all those historical gigs (uniforms-wetness, tank type and equipment) do detract to folks who have good knowledge of the event depicted. I really think AI has improved on his quality quite a bit. A bit more research will really lift them to the next level. I think what happened here was what VonHammer called on another thread making the diorama fit the figures, rather than the other way around. Beach landings are probably one of the most diffcult ideas to bring into a diorama just due the water alone. AI did a super job on that facet.

I am no D-Day expert, but I noticed a few things:

1- The tank is "buttoned-up." This implies they are "taking fire." If so, then why is there no sense of urgency with the infantry? Also if they are under fire, wouldn't the infantry use the tank for cover?

2-Hardly any of the "funnies" made it to shore in the first wave. Most of them sank in the rough surf. Those that did make it, landed at the wrong beaches. If this was one of those tanks it would have the collapsable skirting, snorkels, and props attached.

3-This scene could be of a tank landing later in the day from a LST. Then the hatches would be open with the crew exposed, and the infantry would be walking along side.

No matter what the scenario, the whole scene just doesn't "feel" right.

mpkev31b wrote:

looks good , somethings to note thow, the person who built this should have added track impressions in the sand showing the vehicle "in motion" another thing the US infantry look vey sparse on field gear, first wave soldiers on the beach heads would have been maxed out with field gears and atleast 3 days worth of supplys on one individual.   other than that it looks pretty impressive.

Not all the GI's that made the landing that day made it with their full load of weapons and equipment they ditched them when the stuff was dragging them underwater. So they kicked them off to keep from drowning if anything they rarely came on the beach without their guns or their helmets. keeping on about their gear most of the GI's that died on UTAH beach died from drowning than from enemy fire.

Well, with respect due to all the far-more-knowledgeable-than-I on the particulars of the D-Day landings, equipment, etc, my first impression was, WOW, the sand/stirred-up water effect is really cool!

We all know that A.I's attention to historical accuracy, and/or correct details is not necessarily that "on", but I think he did a great job on something different in the water effects.

Robbioo wrote:

the obstacles are facing the wrom way.. like in "private ryan" the long wooden pole should be sloping toward the dunes.. not the sea. but aside from the accuracy things.. i kinda like the scene

I think the best effect on here is the water, sand and obstacles...water is hard to do...maybe could have tinted it a tad...

Yeah, those GI's uniforms woulda been a dark brown semi-gloss/satin from the water, and about the only thing right on them is the web gear & leggings... Definately not Army uniforms, as was already pointed out.   And not near enough gear.  Every GI was weighed down with packs filled with rations, ammo, water, ammo, ammo, and ammo, mortar rounds, TNT, grenades, gas capes & masks, life preservers, and, oh yeah, ammo... Bandoliers everywhere...   Most of those guys waded in neck-deep water initially if they didn't sink to the bottom, first.... That cloth helmet cover on the one GI is a distractor as well... A Pacific Theater beachhead would be a better dio for the stuff used...    The Sherman is, well... ALL wrong...  Just out of curiousity and don't take this the wrong way, but does this guy, Art Instructor, ever READ here?  Seems that these types of errors are the norm, rather than the exception...  I mean, all one has to do to research these days is point & click (or in this case, watch Saving Private Ryan for about 5 minutes), and everything you wanted to know about everything is right there... (I wish there was such a thing as the internet 30 years ago, when I spent hundreds of dollars on reference books)  I'd think he'd be getting the message from the feedback by now, lol...

I apologize if my tone comes off as some kind of "authenticity Nazi", but having been an Air Force brat, career US Army NCO and a WW2 re-enactor, it's the cross I bear... (My wife suffers through my watching war movies and TV shows and howling at the TV screen about inaccurate stuff all the time... "Can't you ever just watch a movie?" is her lament...)   Hollywood drives me nuts at times... Hell, I'd do the military technical advising for free if they'd just do what I told 'em to... (Not really, but I'd work cheaper 'n Dale Dye, I reckon..)

Overall, the models themselves are well done, but the authenticity errors outweigh the pluses...

 

 

   

 

the obstacles are facing the wrom way.. same mistake as in "private ryan"...   the long wooden pole should be sloping toward the dunes.. not the sea.

but aside from the accuracy things.. i kinda like the scene

To follow on Heavy's & Manny's comments,  the tank & clothes are dry after wading ashore through the surf.  

As a minimum the tank should be glossy wet to the waterline +/- wave splash zone.   Future, brushed on gives that impression.

The soldiers' uniforms should have been painted a darker glossy green to their waist or higher to show that they just came ashore through the surf.   If they have been ashore long enough to dry off - what are they still doing in the obstacles? 

Lack of attention to detail upsets the story being presented 

 

Lord knows I'm no expert, but the water and surf look awfully, well, clean to me. The surf was running quite high on D-Day, churning up sand and muck and bottom debris.

HeavyArty wrote:

Additionally, the figures don't go together well.  The one at the front of the tank looks to be casually walking along, while the others are running.  They would have life vests on too, like the Dragon 29th INF D-Day figures, which are much better.  The tank should not have the side skirts/fenders either.  They were an early feature which was removed in the N. Africa campaign since they were unnecessary and made daily maintenance of the tracks a real pain.  The tank would not have mud on the hull either.  For one, they were very new and clean before they crossed the channel.  Also, any dirt on them would have washed off in the surf.  Lastly, the gear, esp. the gas can on the rear needs to be tied down.  It would be in the water long before the tank made it ashore like that.

Ditto, these look like DML Marines...flame throwers were rare on Normandy...also, I don't believe that type Sherman was used in the landings: the 76mm version---it also has no special wading gear attached...the soldier with the Bangoler looks pretty good---the rest sorta out of place...I do like the water, sand and beach obstacles---those were nicely done...the devil is in the details, though...

Additionally, the figures don't go together well.  The one at the front of the tank (flame thrower guy) looks to be casually walking along, while the others are running.  They would have life vests on too, like the Dragon 29th INF D-Day figures, which are much better.  The boots should be brown as well.  The US Army didn't transition to black boots until the Korean War in about 1952-53. 

The tank should not have the side skirts/fenders on.  They were an early feature which was removed in the N. Africa campaign since they were unnecessary and made daily maintenance of the tracks a real pain.  The tank would not have mud on the hull either.  For one, they were very new and clean before they crossed the channel.  Also, any dirt on them would have washed off in the surf.  Lastly, the gear, esp. the gas can on the rear, needs to be tied down.  It would be in the water long before the tank made it ashore like that.

As usual, it is a decent execution overall, but...  there is no real attention paid to historical accuracy or the small detail items.  It looks good from a distance, but not once you really look at it up close.

 

looks good , somethings to note thow, the person who built this should have added track impressions in the sand showing the vehicle "in motion"

another thing the US infantry look vey sparse on field gear, first wave soldiers on the beach heads would have been maxed out with field gears and atleast 3 days worth of supplys on one individual.

 

other than that it looks pretty impressive.