First Diorama Ever!

Although I'd call it a detailed display base, rather than a diorama, you did an excellent job for the first time outta the chute...  Hopefully, the bug has bitten you and you'll keep building bigger and better dioramas (nowhere to go but "up", ya know)... Myself, I can't stand the thought of NOT building them anymore... I love showing heavy green stuff "doin' it's thing"...

Buying commercial bases and accessories is fine in the beginning, but if you're anything like me, you'll soon want to put a "signature" on your dioramas that make them your own.  Experienced diorama builders will recognize your stuff without seein' a name attached to it... Also, commercial accessories that are SOB are pretty recognizable by other dio-builders, so don't be afraid to cut 'em apart and rebuild them into your own...

I use a mix of commercial and scratch-built structures, but the commercial stuff gets cut apart and rebuilt into something that's my own, same with figures... With few exceptions (drivers, seated pilots, etc) nothing I do is SOB (Straight Outta Box).  

That said, the only real criticism I have for you is that you've "run off the dio" with the tank's main gun (A major issue with commercial display bases, they're never big enough)... You should always try to stay inside the frame with the parts of the main subject... Don't "crop-off" parts either... Buildings, roads, water, and trees can be cropped because the mind fills in the missing parts, but that doesn't happen with the vehicles-aircraft... If you have to use commercial bases, you can place them on another base and extend the commercial part out by scratch to keep everything "in frame"..

Showing your work in progress is the best way to display dioramas in here, in my humble opinion, so I'm glad you chose that method to show us your work.. Keep going, man...

Nice start, Edmund--how  about a "far" picture though; that way we can see the "sit" of the model, and the whole base? The detail painting on the bricks and walls looks great!

my instinct at this point is to say that it probably will need some vegetative matter? A bit of Woodland Scenics grass powder is the next step--good thing you didn't glue down the panzer; it's not "finshed' yet!

Put down a thin layer of white glue and sprinkle some grass powder on, then let it set for a while. After it dries, you can airbrush some additional tones into it, and even seal it with Dullcoat if you want.

Thanks for the encouragement and constructive feedback it is appreciated.

I discoverd my macro setting on my digital camera and became obsessed with figuring out the setting so I forget to take more distance shots.  Here is one more macro shot of wall detail.

Here is the only distance shot I have until I take more tonight.  I did use the actual tank to make my depressions because Karl outlined very clearly that it must sink into the mud and it does and looks great.  I even measured out exactly where to replace the model each time to insure the effect remained constatn.

I am stil undecided about adding woodscenic static grass and field grasss which I have played with put didn't like the effect.  I am going to run by the LHS today and take a second look though.  I would like to add some subtle organic pieces to the base of the wall.

Here I thought I was finished with my "first attempt"

You guys Rock!

Schnobs,

 That is a great job, particularly for a first time!  Congratulations!  I, too, will look forward to seeing some of your distant shots, but at this point, I'd say it looks pretty darn nice!

Well, I was wrong---it does appear to "sit" well, at least from that angle...cool.  What brand base is that? Your mud is very convinving for a first-timer...did you put a coat of gloss on any of it?

A couple of other related items: it seems as though your track is coming apart...also, why no markings on the tank?

For a first dio I give it an "A"...keep on experimenting and trying new things...

  Now who was it that was asking if dio builders were a dying breed?

   For a first effort that's one great job on the base Schnobs. I would suggest if you add grass add some tall grass around the base of the wall and make it higher than the rest.

  The only critique I have is on the Mk IV. The tracks on one side are floating above the return rollers and as Manny already mentioned the track is coming apart on the right side.

Hello Again,

In an effort to answer some of the questions about the Pz.IV build here is the link to my first post in the Armor section:

/forums/1068514/ShowPost.aspx

I took a few more long distant shots today after I got back from the LHS and talking to the train guys again which are great guys.  Too bad trains usually don't have guns and armored plate!   I am digesting the comments on the site about adding vegatation and picked up a few things at the LHS to experiment with.  I like the hemp fiber suggestion that is exactly how dried grass looks on a rutted section line road in the Midwest. 

Here are some distant shots as requested:

Thanks again for the encouragement and ideals from every and yes Karl I am not done!

Just thought of a way to fix that gun "problem" (where it's sticking outside the frame).. If you're so inclined, turn the turret to the right, angling the gun scross the right front fender... It'd cut back on the amount of gun "outside" and also be a practical correction.  The commander would want to track there to scan for threats as the tank is about enter a potential anti-armor ambush site (a blind intersection)... It'd also cover the lack of a crew (they're buttoned up)...  It's a quick & easy way to break up all those parallel and perpendicular elements on the dio... (In the future, try to not have anything running parallel or perpendicular to the edges of the base..Kind of a no-no in dio construction.)

Hans von Hammer wrote:

Just thought of a way to fix that gun "problem" (where it's sticking outside the frame).. If you're so inclined, turn the turret to the right, angling the gun scross the right front fender... It'd cut back on the amount of gun "outside" and also be a practical correction.  The commander would want to track there to scan for threats as the tank is about enter a potential anti-armor ambush site (a blind intersection)... It'd also cover the lack of a crew (they're buttoned up)...  It's a quick & easy way to break up all those parallel and perpendicular elements on the dio... (In the future, try to not have anything running parallel or perpendicular to the edges of the base..Kind of a no-no in dio construction.)

I have been thinking about your comments and my thought was to find a plith I think it is called or a trophy base like other people have used and mount the base on that.

Do you have any suggestions where I could find one?

Unfortuately the DML kit I built has no way that I know of to actually attach  the turret so I glued it in one position.  I will not make that mistake again so it has value.

I bought the same kit last night so I could leverage "Lessons Learned" from my first build and have another go at Magic Tracks.

Personally, I don't use wood bases for dioramas 11" X 14" and smaller.  I use the plastic "Box" photo-frames that come in 11x14, 8x10, 5x7, and 4x6 sizes... You can glue them together to make larger areas if you need to, they're about an 1 1/2 deep to hide any electronics you may use, and allow your to cut holes in them for foxholes, bomb craters, etc., and don't warp from too-wet ground material... 

I sometimes use wood though, if  I want something other than squares and rectangles, so I buy decoupage plaques from Hobby Lobby, although you should be able to find them in any decent arts & crafts stores... They're in various shaoes and sizes, usually sanded and routed, but need a good coat of urethane to water-proof 'em... I also use wood shelving material to glue down the celulose ceiling tiles I use for extra-large builds...

I always finish the base as well.. The plastic ones take paint or wood-grain contact paper well, the wood bases I stain and polyurethane... Keep in mind that your base is the "frame" for your "picture" and a sh*tty base can make a really good diorama look like a so-so diorama to your viewers...

I personally like to make a 1/2" or so "reveal" on the top of the base.  The reveal is just a border around your base's top, between the edge of the groundwork and the side of the base, but sometimes I blow it off too... Occasionally, that extra inch makes all the difference in keeping the dio inside the frame...

Understood about the DML turret... I've never done a DML or Dragon kit, so I'm not familiar with their turrets...  Everything tracked I've built outside Tamiya or Italeri has been SP guns with no turrets...  I've got an Academy Wirbelwind, and was going to build it for the Wirbelwind/Spitfire/Blitz dio I'm on right now, but blew it off when I discovered there was no gun crew for it, and went Tamiya...

As for "Magic Tracks", you're on your own there... I despise hard or indy-link tracks... Gimme rubber-band tracks anyday! (I know, I know... But I like to make the tracks work when it comes time to impress them into the groundwork.  Makes "muddying" them easier, too.  I just "drive" that track through the mud, lol)

Hans von Hammer wrote:

Just thought of a way to fix that gun "problem" (where it's sticking outside the frame).. If you're so inclined, turn the turret to the right, angling the gun scross the right front fender... It'd cut back on the amount of gun "outside" and also be a practical correction.  The commander would want to track there to scan for threats as the tank is about enter a potential anti-armor ambush site (a blind intersection)... It'd also cover the lack of a crew (they're buttoned up)...  It's a quick & easy way to break up all those parallel and perpendicular elements on the dio... (In the future, try to not have anything running parallel or perpendicular to the edges of the base..Kind of a no-no in dio construction.)

Schnoobs,

Hey, I like the additional photos that you posted.  Looks good.  I like that you got the exact same kit - good way to make some improvements.  I think I'll do that...

IMHO, I don't think that gun 'problem' is really that big of a deal.  I know that Hans is adamant about the 'make the base fit the scene', which I completely understand and respect (not trying to show any disrespect, Colonel!!! ).  But to me, the gun extending beyond the edge of the scene is indicative of the fact that the 'scene' also extends.  Many dioramas have figures and vehicles responding to things 'off screen', and by having the gun (or some other element) sticking out into that space, I feel like it creates a connection in the viewers eye to the unseen action 'off in the distance'.

Just my .  Take it for what it's worth...

Ok, I'm super late on this discussion, sorry. 

Lots of good points have been discussed already so much of what I'll say is summary.

 First, I think that Von Hammer has a good point about rotating the gun, but not for the same reasons.  I would do it do eliminate some of the linear feel of the layout.  I realize that the base was constructed as such, so I believe that by placing the gun at an angle it will help break up the lines and add visual interest.

Second, I would defininately consider adding some greenery around and especially behind the little wall.  You've got some dead space back their that could be put to better use....think enhancing the backdrop by placing a tree or large shrubs.  Along the same thought, how about a little ivy or moss on the wall itself for color and interest?

Keep in mind that all this discussion is based on the fact that you've already put in a very good start.  We wouldn't be paying attention to your work if it didn't warrent the small tweaks.  Great job on the base (especially considering it is your first) and keep the fun.

Best

Rick

RickLawler wrote:

Ok, I'm super late on this discussion, sorry.  Lots of good points have been discussed already so much of what I'll say is summary.  First, I think that Von Hammer has a good point about rotating the gun, but not for the same reasons.  I would do it do eliminate some of the linear feel of the layout.  I realize that the base was constructed as such, so I believe that by placing the gun at an angle it will help break up the lines and add visual interest. Second, I would defininately consider adding some greenery around and especially behind the little wall.  You've got some dead space back their that could be put to better use....think enhancing the backdrop by placing a tree or large shrubs.  Along the same thought, how about a little ivy or moss on the wall itself for color and interest?

Again great points and I definitely understand "constructive criticism".  I just want everyone to understand that I have never air brushed, dry brushed, or of course implemented any of the many weathering techniques that I have learned by reading the gracious posts on these forms.

I basically switched hobbies from computers to 1\35th scale modeling and I wanted as we refer to it in my profession layer my skill sets.  I have not had a blue screen or driver compatibility problem with my PZ.IV yet!

I am amazed at my own results without sounding inappropriate!  I have a long way to go and like I already told Karl I wished my skill sets were equal to my imagination. 

I am now off to try my hand at some subtle organic placement!  I will post additional pics soon.

Thanks again for the kind words and suggestions.  Here is a saying where I come from, "I only know what I know when I know it, but I often don't know it when I need it"

Peace,

Okay Fellas I am calling my First Official Diorama Completed at 11:11 pm!

Thanks again so much for sharing your knowledge so freely it is appreciated!

Enjoy!

I had to get creative with using my air brush to blow wet paint off my brush against the wall to simulate splashed mud and grass.

Hey, I truly think you're kickin' azz and takin' names... Keep that baby as long as you can stand it, and as you build more and more dios, use it to look back on and compare it to your latest builds, and you'll have a good yardstick for measuring your progress..

know that Hans is adamant about the 'make the base fit the scene', which I completely understand and respect (not trying to show any disrespect, Colonel!!! " border="0" width="15" height="15" />).  But to me, the gun extending beyond the edge of the scene is indicative of the fact that the 'scene' also extends.  Many dioramas have figures and vehicles responding to things 'off screen', and by having the gun (or some other element) sticking out into that space, I feel like it creates a connection in the viewers eye to the unseen action 'off in the distance'

No disrespect taken, ever... I know I'm kind of a nazi about that stuff, but it just kinda ruins the effect for me... The direction of the "enemy" and that there's something going on "thattaway" is more effectively and neatly done by having guns and figures pointed in the same direction (although a couple looking in other directions is ok to establish "communication" ) without breaking the plane of the scene's border..

IMHO, having anything sticking out past the border disrupts the "snapshot effect".  It also makes it look like you didn't plan it very well... Kinda like the ol' gag:

I see this problem with aircraft dioramas all the time with wings a-hangin' over the edges, and whether by accident or design, it's a no-go...  It's ok with landscaped display bases, but if they want to enter it in the diorama category.. It's a ding... When I judge dioramas at contests, stuff like that's an automatic gig, so the builder starts off "in the hole"... 

I gotta agree with Hans' evaluation - you really kicked this one in the seat!  I really like the splattered mud effect you were able to get.  It is also nice that you are taking the comments everyone has given you in good stride. 

Can't wait to see some more!

That's much nicer looking, Edmund--there's at least some coor contrast to the mud; it doesn't look so monotone now. I can't tell though--is it "real" simulated grass,or just spattered paint?

If you're going to build dio's though, you're goin gto have to learn to work with ground material and static grass; you should take a few hours and strolll through the posts here in this forum and learn how to use them effectively.

"Simulating" it with paint is only going to take you so far.A bit of longer weeds, bushes, and brush clumps can really do a lot for a dio.

Good one for the first one, though! 

the doog wrote:

That's much nicer looking, Edmund--there's at least some coor contrast to the mud; it doesn't look so monotone now. I can't tell though--is it "real" simulated grass,or just spattered paint? If you're going to build dio's though, you're goin gto have to learn to work with ground material and static grass; you should take a few hours and strolll through the posts here in this forum and learn how to use them effectively. "Simulating" it with paint is only going to take you so far.A bit of longer weeds, bushes, and brush clumps can really do a lot for a dio. Good one for the first one, though!

Thanks that is high praise for my "Detailed Base"  that made me laugh Von Hammer if there was a detailed base forum I would post it there!  

I used Woodland Scenics Flowering foilage for the sumulated moss on the wall and at the base.  I also used a combination of fine turf "Powders"  When I picked up the organic bits to experiment with I also picked up some assorted Poly Scale mud and earth colers so I could contrast the mud realistically.  I dipped a brush into a blend of both colors and a little fine turf and then sprayed with air brush to get a mud splatter effect.

I didn't like how bright the base looked with the colors so I muted them with various dry burshing of mud.  I am going to add a little bit more green back.  I have experimented with field grass but I had the wrong glue and it didn't dry clear so I didn't use it, and you are right I absolutely need to learn the techniques of appling vegatation.

I thought I was "Finished but everyone's comments about the main gun going off the end of the base and also how many straight lines there were that I have taken the following actions:

I have reset the tank back further on it's base to allow for more of the road detail to show.

I also picked up an 8" by 10" inch oval basswood base that I am going to use some wood oil on tonight and that should set the base appropriately.

Stay tuned pics are coming....

Thanks Guys,

Hello Again,

I got home and started sanding and then I used some Danish Oil in a Dark Walnut Finish which I prefer to work with as opposed to seperate stains and varnishes. I wanted a warm natural wood look.  I have some pictures but it is not mounted yet because I am envisioning a simple pewter engraved namesplate that simply states the following:

I know you guys prefer to name a Diorama but the German in me just wants to lable it!

I have also included some really cool nomenclature information and specs that I would love to shrink down and soemhow mount on the base as well.

Here are some pics:

PzKpfw IV Ausf. G   GENERAL DATA Formal Designation Panzerkampfwagen IV Ausf. G (SdKfz 161/1 und 161/2) Manufacturer(s) Krupp-Gruson, Vomag, Nibelungenwerke Production Quantity 1687 Production Period May 1942 - June 1943 Type Medium Tank Crew 5 Length /hull (m) 6.62 Barrel Overhang (m) 72 Width /with skirts (m) 2.88 Height (m) 2.68 Combat Weight (kg) 23500 Radio Equipment FuG5 FIREPOWER Primary Armament 75mm KwK 40 L/43 Ammunition Carried 87 Traverse (degrees) Electric (360°) Elevation (degrees) -8° to +20° Traverse speed (360°) n.a. Sight TZF5f/1 Secondary Armament 2 x MG34 (coaxial, bow) Ammunition Carried 2250

Ploppin' down a rectangle groundwork on an oval base was a brilliant touch, man... I like it! Only thing I'd recommend now is that you hide the gaps between the groundwork and the new base with some small basswood strips...

Just a tip for future builds regarding foliage... Take a look at the herbs in your local grocery store next time... Dried oregano, parsley, and rosemary make good foliage bits, unraveled hemp rope for tall grass, or even bristles from old house-painting brushes...

Hans von Hammer wrote:

Ploppin' down a rectangle groundwork on an oval base was a brilliant touch, man... I like it! Only thing I'd recommend now is that you hide the gaps between the groundwork and the new base with some small basswood strips... Just a tip for future builds regarding foliage... Take a look at the herbs in your local grocery store next time... Dried oregano, parsley, and rosemary make good foliage bits, unraveled hemp rope for tall grass, or even bristles from old house-painting brushes...

Thanks Von Hammer I got the ideal from your comments.  There isn't actually a gap I still have felt pads underneath the resin base because I have not affixed it to the basswood base yet.

It is not completely dry yet.

Speaking of that what kind of adhesive would you suggest to use?

Also what do you think of my ideal of a pewter or aged silver name plate?

Thanks again for your insightful thoughtful comments.  I appreciate it!

Speaking of that what kind of adhesive would you suggest to use?

I'd just use good ol' Elmer's Glue-All... Score the wood a bit underneath the groundwork (be carefull not to get the scoring out into the area of the basswood that'll be seen) to give the glue something to grab, and you should be good to go... If some oozes out, plain water can clean it up...

For name-tags, most guys go with etched brass from trophy shops, but my method s to use my printer and make a title or label there, using whatever fonts strike my fancy, as well as colors, then print them on white decal paper and apply to sheet plastic or plain paper and just laminate it..  I like the high-contrast of using colored name plates  I like using the Old English font for German stuff...

Hans von Hammer wrote:

Speaking of that what kind of adhesive would you suggest to use? I'd just use good ol' Elmer's Glue-All... Score the wood a bit underneath the groundwork (be carefull not to get the scoring out into the area of the basswood that'll be seen) to give the glue something to grab, and you should be good to go... If some oozes out, plain water can clean it up... For name-tags, most guys go with etched brass from trophy shops, but my method s to use my printer and make a title or label there, using whatever fonts strike my fancy, as well as colors, then print them on white decal paper and apply to sheet plastic or plain paper and just laminate it..  I like the high-contrast of using colored name plates  I like using the Old English font for German stuff...

Thanks for both ideals..

I picked up some Woodland Scenics Scenic glue that did not dry clear when I was practicing making tall weeds and smalll brush piles so I suppose i could use that I would think.  Makes me sick to scar that basswood base though no one will see it.  It has a beautiful pattern.

I peeked at your Diaroma's they are cool and inspirational to a green pea like me!

Makes me sick to scar that basswood base though no one will see it.  It has a beautiful pattern.

That's why I use plastic, lol..

I peeked at your Diaroma's they are cool and inspirational to a green pea like me!

Thanks, and I really will finish one or two more in the next few weeks... I just started only last June after a ten-twelve-year break, so I naturally went crazy buying kits and starting builds... As of right now, I only have two done, and both are the Mauldin "jeep" vignettes... As for inspiring, that's pretty high praise considering the caliber of the men in here that are serious diorama builders.  I'm still pretty far down the food-chain around here, lol... But I will brag on one aspect of my work, and that's that, as the biggest cheapskate around, I spend the least amount of money per build...  Wanna learn how to do this stuff on the cheap, I'm yer guy, lol...