WIP dio:"Counterattack!" *update 6-6*

Some great points!...all of them are valid...still working with the final layout as you mentioned...one thing I might do to add some visual interest is to have the 250/9 (2nd track) coming into the scene at a slightly different angle in the center (more head on with the turret pointed in the direction that the figs are looking)...this will help fill out the center of the dio...I also will break up the cluster of guys on the cardboard base. They are basically affixed their right now for ease of moving them around...

I also have a dude I'm working on looking through binocs that I will probably place on the 250/9's roof or hood...this will add a visual "center" to the dio (because it will be the tallest element) w/ the 250/8 the the left and the AT gun/MG to the right...this will also allow me to move some of the figs forward, some into the area of dead space between the trailing arms of the AT gun...still experimenting a lot w/ the composition on this one---nothing has been decided yet and you guys are giving me some great tips...I also hope to add some ground interest as well...maybe a culvert or a wooden fence...stay tuned !!!

Hi Manny, I'll start with compliments.
Wow! As usual your figures are superb and your armor phenominal!
Now, critiques. I'm new to the whole dio business, but none of these pieces seem to tie together. You have five brilliantly painted tankers standing in semi-action poses, not interacting with each other, near a vehicle that seems to have been dropped from the sky. Maybe put in a guy who's looking at a map briefing them, or some bedraggled soldier pointing back where he came from. They can't be just starring into space. You could use both halftracks if you split up the tankers and had them interacting within crews. Don't bother with the other soldiers as their poses don't fit the scene.
PHEW!! That's seemed like a lot of critiques. Take it worth a grain of salt though. I really enjoy your dios and just want to make sure this one turns out as nicely as the others!

I like the big gun better than the MG as well. However with the issue of the small size of the base with the legs extended, did you think of perhaps having the two recon vehicles coming in from a side? So perhaps the two cautious Germans can be going further out past their vehicles, while having more of the casual officer types in their own groups maybe between the vehicles or behind them? I think the flanking maneuver by the recon vehicles would make more sense as to how they took over the AT Gun position as well, maybe make it look like the Russians saw them at the last minute and the crew had tried to spin the gun to take them out, but were too late? The only reason I say this is because with a frontal assault of the position as you’ve set up, I’d think the main gun on either 250 would have blown apart the Russian piece? Maybe it’s more of a Mortar and they wouldn’t use it against a target like that?

Here’s a quick doodle I did in photoshop to illustrate, sorry for the quality.


I know you know what you’re doing so this is just as idea I’m kicking around, I’m sure you’ve done a whole bunch of positioning and repositioning to wind up with what you did, so this is just my 2 cents. I’ll echo the complements on your 250- very very nicely done, love the camo and fine weathering.

psstoff995 wrote:

I like the big gun better than the MG as well. However with the issue of the small size of the base with the legs extended, did you think of perhaps having the two recon vehicles coming in from a side? So perhaps the two cautious Germans can be going further out past their vehicles, while having more of the casual officer types in their own groups maybe between the vehicles or behind them? I think the flanking maneuver by the recon vehicles would make more sense as to how they took over the AT Gun position as well, maybe make it look like the Russians saw them at the last minute and the crew had tried to spin the gun to take them out, but were too late? The only reason I say this is because with a frontal assault of the position as you’ve set up, I’d think the main gun on either 250 would have blown apart the Russian piece? Maybe it’s more of a Mortar and they wouldn’t use it against a target like that? Here’s a quick doodle I did in photoshop to illustrate, sorry for the quality. I know you know what you’re doing so this is just as idea I’m kicking around, I’m sure you’ve done a whole bunch of positioning and repositioning to wind up with what you did, so this is just my 2 cents. I’ll echo the complements on your 250- very very nicely done, love the camo and fine weathering.

Some good ideas---keep the sketches coming...thanks for checking in...

keep the sketches coming

Really?! hope they help, I'll try and improve the quality. I think all the basic elements you have going on here are going to really make this one stand out, I hope you can figure out a way to get everything right and make it work, thanks for appreciating my input- it's still a little mind numbing- your work/quality of everything is so much nicer than anything I put together, so believe me, glad to be following along

Hi there Manny I'd just like to agree with everyone here that your figures are simply stunning as is the halftrack, great job.

Now for some observations if you don't mind.  The two German infantry soldiers look like they are advancing to contact and are expecting Ivan to leap out of the nearest bush, while the officers are standing around have a bit of a chat and a smoke (typical).  The two groups don't seem to gel well with each other.

Love the big gun, it makes a much better statement than the MG but I agree that the legs really do occupy a lot of room.

Great work and I'll really look forward to the final result.

darson wrote:

The two German infantry soldiers look like they are advancing to contact and are expecting Ivan to leap out of the nearest bush

While I agree with this general sentiment, might I point out that neither infantryman has a finger anywhere near the trigger guard. While they look more cautious (take paranoid infantry) they are not ready to shoot, and while the officers look more relaxed (take cocky "war-game" mentality officers) I think they could be realistic if they feel safe and in cover.

But that's just my take.

psstoff995 wrote:

darson wrote:   The two German infantry soldiers look like they are advancing to contact and are expecting Ivan to leap out of the nearest bush While I agree with this general sentiment, might I point out that neither infantryman has a finger anywhere near the trigger guard. While they look more cautious (take paranoid infantry) they are not ready to shoot, and while the officers look more relaxed (take cocky "war-game" mentality officers) I think they could be realistic if they feel safe and in cover. But that's just my take.

I agree...I'm glad I'm not the only one who has seen this in ref pics...the Germans, especially after fighting for 4 years on the Eastern front, sometimes looked very composed right after an action took place...I have plenty of refs that show this; here is one:

 

Note the Medical Officer treating freshly wounded Russians and the guys in the halftrack behind them looking rather busy, while the Panzer Officer on the left strikes his "Marlboro Man" pose (in the full pic he is holding a smoke)...

...also, depending on how I placed those two infantrymen, they could blend in well...one is simply leaning forward and the other has an outstretched hand...I have thought of putting that hand on the shield of the gun as if he is peering over into the area of the casualty...again, the composition is very fluid at this point...  

Manny- glad you have ref. pictures to back it up. I would argue that it’s not just a German phenomenon. I’d say after any group of infantry and officers becomes seasoned to a day to day fight type action, their ability to compensate and normalize the situation would make the events much more bearable. It’s like watching the movies where the new guy gets in off the plane or out of the helicopter and he’s acting all excited and giddy and ready to fight and the old war torn vets don’t flinch when mortars come in and laugh at the new guy who hit the deck like he was taught straight out of boot camp.

The movie All Quiet on the Western Front has the classic scene where all the soldiers tell the new recruits to toss their serrated bayonets and the hard*** drill instructor cowers behind a burm while his graduated class that had been in the trenches moves on without him to fight.

I think this piece has the potential to be much more than a simple showing of your skills as a figure painter and a master modeler, it captures very well a lot of ideas and feelings of the time. The Eastern Front was rough, bitter fighting and worse weather and after 4 years, I’m sure there wasn’t much the men hadn’t seen. It’s a shame everything your put into your pieces doesn’t come across to model show judges...

...a cool pic of the 76.2mm field-gun in action... 

Very nice- sparse too, should be good for a minimalist kind of gun emplacement

More Incredible work MR...Always in awe by your talent! Can't wait for more....

Ever thought about showing the piece knocked-out, Manny? Perhaps with the figures kinda looking it over, with varying degrees of interest..   Here's one I started that I've since torn apart without bothering to finish (so guys, don't offer corrections or tips, please. It's gone . But the gun's going into another idea I got.) the diorama or even the GIs...  I don't know how you feel about wrecking a model though... I know that when I do it, I immediately wish I hadn't done it, lol..

Just doin' a little spit-ballin'...

 

 

 

Whoa......

Where do you find the dead and injured guys????  I need injured and dead soldiers.

For stuff like that, "Frankensteining" your own figures is really a must

Here's one of mine before paint, you can see what I mean. Even the legs are from different figures in the same kit.

He’s injured and still fighting, here’s two dead MGers that have been over run. Sometimes you have to modify (usually with freehand putty work) figures when kit bashing isn’t enough


 

Manstein your stuff here is just awesome, i really can't suggest anything worth while as you do just a fantastic job on your own. Your figure painting is some of the best i've ever seen in my life. I'm keeping my eye on this one to see how it finishes.

Meet Mr. /9:

New composition idea (sans figgies):

Pics are deliberately dark so you can't enjoy all of the goodies just yet (I've got to save some of the details for the AMPS judges)...

Please give me some feedback or I'll order a forced recon of your next backyard BBQ...

I just love the whole layout, nicely done. What paint scheme is that on Mr. 9?? a bit differn't from what i've seen, but i seem to remember a Panther with that color, no, now i remember it was a Hetzer, yes?

Wow!!! Very nice layout- looks like they really over ran the gun now. I think depending on your story line, you could have a bunch of empty ammo boxes and spend brass covered in snow, like they'd been out of rounds for a while. Then maybe have one or two recently ejected brass rounds like they tried to defend themselves but were taken by surprise and the Germans cleaned up the rest.

Are you going to build up the ground around the gun like it was in a dugout? -or camouflaged in a similar fashion to that ref. picture? I’m assuming it wasn’t going to be sitting in the open on flat ground like it is now.

Also, I’m sure you know more about how Germans took gun emplacements from a tactical standpoint and how easy/hard it was for them to do it successfully. Especially on the Eastern Front as I’d consider that your forte. So all I can say is I like the layout- assuming it’s accurate, which I would assume as it’s put together by you and I know you do your research.

  Manny try moving the gun back some so the wheels are even with the back of the tracks. Then you could place your command figs in front while the troopers look over the gun and deceased ruskie.

   So which sd's gonna have the guy draped over the hood?  

panzerguy wrote:

So which sd's gonna have the guy draped over the hood?

I was wondering the same thing!

Manny

Here is another thought.  At one point I think you mentioned something about displaying the 250's to suggest they took the gun in a flanking movement.  Have you thrown that idea out?  If not, you could angle the gun, maybe not 90 degrees, but perhaps 60 - 80 degrees so that, when combined with the placement of the figs it suggests that type of action.

Manny, for layout, I wouldn't have the /9 and /8 drawn up parallel or level with each other or the gun, try to have a bit of offset so that the eye isn't drawn to see a straight line. see the pic

    Gun     

/8          /9

 or

 /8

    Gun

           /9

something like that
 

So I Guess what I'm hearing is that this layout could work...?...

I think so. I think the only issue is it does look a little symmetrical. I guess depending on your figure placement; you might be able to unbalance the symmetry in some way. If you want, you could also try stacking both vehicles on one side and moving the gun over to the other extreme, but I like the way they both overran the gun simultaneously, gives the impression of a more powerful assault on it.

Just brainstorming out loud... not sure how many figures you were going to have on the final product, or their locations, but here’s a few doodles I made up, figures in red, general base size in reference to the vehicle/gun sizes was incredibly made up, so not sure how any of this would work out...

But for what it’s worth, my 2 cents

I agree. You want to be careful of the symmetry. You do not want it to look like there is some half-track precision driving going on. Shift it around to get some imbalance to draw your eye around. e.g. when you look at a mercedes logo your eye stays still, whereas the Subaru logo moves your eye around. Get the idea? 

   Manny I think that if you really want to keep the AT gun and all the figs you might consider going with a slightly bigger base.

...you  know, the more I think about it the more I am inclined to replace that AT Gun with the heavy Soviet 12.7mm MG...

Hmm... yeah, if you do go that route though, I’d suggest you really fortify that MG position, it’d be much less of an accomplishment taking one Heavy MG with two half tracks as opposed to the big AT gun. Would definitely take up less space and give you a lot more room to play with the positions of the figures and your tracks...