...groundwork...

madmike wrote:

Using celluclay, when I add impressions during the laying down of the mix (such as tracklines or road ruts), the detail tends to "soften" as the celluclay dried. Doog, when do you stamp in the tracklines et al?  Cheers Mike

I put in the track marks soon after I lay it down. I never looked at the track marks as having to be razor-crisp. To me, track marks in real dirt/mud go soft almost immediately too (seen enough dirt bike tracks to know!) so I never really had a problem with that--in my experience, track marks laid in plaster were almost impossible to keep "clean", as the plaster would always pull up with the track. (I admit I never tried the Saran Wrap trick).

You can also re-emphasize track marks with a flat-blade screwdriver later after the celluclay has set a litttle firmer. I've done this quite frequently, and no one was ever the wiser.

One thing I do with the celluclay that you may wanna consider, Manny... I always put it in a Zip-lock bag, cut off a small corner, and squeeze as much water out it as I can... 

Also, while yer out, I highly reccomend picking up some tempera paint to color it with... Just squeeze a good dollop into the mix with the water & glue... It runs about about 1.77 a pint at Hobby Lobby...

in my experience, track marks laid in plaster were almost impossible to keep "clean", as the plaster would always pull up with the track.

I have several different spare tires and track-types that I use to make the tracks in plaster and such.. A quick shot of cooking spray will keep the plaster from sticking to the track-section or tire. 

Hans von Hammer wrote:

One thing I do with the celluclay that you may wanna consider, Manny... I always put it in a Zip-lock bag, cut off a small corner, and squeeze as much water out it as I can...  in my experience, track marks laid in plaster were almost impossible to keep "clean", as the plaster would always pull up with the track. I have several different spare tires and track-types that I use to make the tracks in plaster and such.. A quick shot of cooking spray will keep the plaster from sticking to the track-section or tire.

Excellent advice Hans and Doog. I will make sure that my next batch of Celluclay has dough consistency. I am also building up a small collection of track "stamps" and when using plaster again might try the cooking oil method out as well.

For tinting the Celluclay, I use Dark burned sienna or burned sienna craft paint. Very cheap and really does the trick.

What an informative thread!

Same here for using of the tile grout. Comes in a ton of earth tones, but I use the sanded kind to give a bit of texture. Will add other bits to build up the scene. I put it on dry, and add Elmers glue, and once it is starting to set up, make impressions ie footprints, wheel ruts, track marks, etc. Only thing I've discovered is if you want to build an area up, I need to do it with little layers at a time, otherwise it tends to crack a bit. Once dry, it's like concrete.

Only thing I've discovered is if you want to build an area up, I need to do it with little layers at a time, otherwise it tends to crack a bit.

Thin layers (about 1/8th-1/4 inch) are indeed the rule, IMHO... Thick layers will shrink, crack, and take forever to dry...  For built-up areas of terrain, I put down chunks of wood, styrofoam, or crumpled newspaper and cover them with brown-paper towels (available in about any Men's Room) soaked in plaster... It's cheaper that buying the plaster cloth from Woodland Scenics or such...

I also use broken-up chunks of ceiling tiles glued to the base... I've used ceiling tile for the entire base as well, like when I need a large, flat area, like for a grass airfield or the like... Here's an example, a 22" x 24" piece stacked on another for my 1/48th B-17 so I could gouge out the furrows made by the bomber...

After the Static Grass is applied:

Basically, anything I don't have to pay for goes, lol... 

Hans von Hammer wrote:

Shep's Fort suffered a right main gear failure while taxing back to the hardstand after having landed ok... Mine has bellied-in "somewhere in England" after getting shot up, losing an engine to flak, and then running out of fuel, still quite a ways from "home"... 

The 8th AF had ground units that went around the countryside recovering aircraft that didn't make it all the way home...  They used inflatable jacks placed under the wings to raise the aircraft up enough to get the gear down... When that was accomplished they then completely evaluated it, repaired/replaced the engine(s) and props, any control surfaces/systems/avionics damaged, and if it was feasible, a pilot and/or minimum flight crew was brought in to fly the aircraft out and back to a repair depot to completely repair it and return it to service. Otherwise, the aircraft was dismantled and trucked back, or if it was too far gone, stripped and scrapped...

This one will be one of the ones that gets flown out and returned to duty... As the name "Bad Check" will imply, she always gets returned...

Very cool information on Sheps Fortress. I didn't know it could turn so sharply and continue so violently through the ground after simply taxing, that's a lot of power and a lot of weight, really puts the size in perspective.

I did notice your number 2 engine had been knocked out and was smoking all the way down, stained the wing and the tail. I like the history you portray- very cool info on the 8th AF, and all the little hints, clues and details really add to a great diorama story.

This one will be one of the ones that gets flown out and returned to duty... As the name "Bad Check" will imply, she always gets returned...

Well,guys,,,, I respect the opinions expressed here, and thanks for posting them. I am sure we have all learned a few things. As for myself, ..................I went out and stocked up

I will continue as I have(as most of us will I bet), but it was a good read...

I've hads ome pretty good results with celleclay :

I like the way the dugout entrance looks high-trafficked...

Footprints held pretty well...even with the snow coating...

Track marks were decent...some shrinkage around log barricade...

And some times I fought with the stuff, as in DITCY...Terrible shrinkage almost cost me the base...might not be able to tell it from the final result but this led me to do very little in way of ground variation...the corners started coming up and I used a very tedious techniue to "pull" them back down...black paint covered up the worst of it...

...this corner lifted the most...

Bland groundwork...lucky for me the composition and story was more important in this dio...

And I do use white glue and water-based paints in my mix...I believe i may have laid it on too "wet"...

Track marks were decent...some shrinkage around log barricade... And some times I fought with the stuff, as in DITCY...Terrible shrinkage almost cost me the base...might not be able to tell it from the final result but this led me to do very little in way of ground variation...the corners started coming up and I used a very tedious techniue to "pull" them back down...black paint covered up the worst of it...    ...this corner lifted the most...

Manny ~ Glad I got to see some of your finished work.(hadn't yet) I'll bet you've heard it before & don't mind hearing it again ~~  Just very cool Dio's. Very cool. I would have to agree with you, you are one of the better figure painters((around here))Each of those Axis badboys looks just right, and they're placement conveys a post battle scene, the adreniline is still going, the stories are coming out fast between the panzertroopen, but they're just as concerned about making the right 'next steps'. That's what I got, scanning it over, and the groundwork did its job, and looks the part. Certainly you made the medium work for you.( I like the 'cut-away' around the edge, as if seeing the raw earth under the snow.(I did that one time too.)              I don't know if you are quite as carefull painting the Allies ? ( the edges of the webgear straps on their backs for the most obvious thing)              As for DITCY.... DITCY IS DITCY.   Tells it's story about as good as it gets, G.I.s staying low and moving carefully, when I look over at the dead German and the spouting waterbarrel I can almost hear the reverbaration of 4-6 clanky shots from the 'ole M1. But the ground work......does'nt live up to the rest. It barely cuts it.   You said it ...." Bland groundwork...lucky for me the composition and story was more important in this dio..." Kinda looks like combat on a cake top . (Cool cake). Seems like alot of trouble would have been avoided by not trying to build-up the verticals of the grounds edge from cellu-clay, but rather having the ooze contained by a styrene or wood frame(or both as we often see vaneered sides look good) Could have been an ideal time for that cast plaster method, to get a certain look to those sides.  I for one don't like to see an IF-Y(uncertain) border on Dio's. I see it all the time though. Some ones done great work on the subject(s), but dont look at my edges! Just one area where people are blowing it. Not the tuffest to improve either.

INDY wrote:

Manny ~ Glad I got to see some of your finished work.(hadn't yet) I'll bet you've heard it before & don't mind hearing it again ~~  Just very cool Dio's. Very cool.

Thanks, here's the major part of the collection I've built since being a memeber in the Forum (roughly just over 2):

"Prelude to Villers"

"The Discussion"

"Defense of Aachen"

"Backhand Blow"

"Death in the Courtyard"

~~NICE~~ I like seeing them layed out one after another like a catalog too(thanks) I'd like to try it as well. So, here is the major body of my Diorama work since returning to scale modeling(going on two years ago)

" Various British Elements Between Caen & St Lo, France, 1944 "

" In Russian Hands "

" Ardenne, December,1944 "

" British 1st Airborne Holland "

" Russian Machine Gunner in the Trench "

" Rudolf's Roadside Rant "

That's it for finished pieces. The 1st 6 Dio's I've ever done, though I used to build alot of armor & figures too. #6 is very small but nearly done. After that I have at least 6 big Dio's in planning stages & most of the kits already in the stash. I'm trying to keep moving as far as the look of the area of the war theatre.

[quote user="Manstein's revenge"

]Wow...I really like the British Airborned dio...very nice burned-out Mk IV and the church is awesome. Is that a Miniart building?

Hey ~ Thank you Manny  The church ruins are Verlinden ( with alot of x-tra shelling damage added) I'll prepare a forum post with more details & photos.

The Church is nicely cast hydrocal plaster made in the U.S.A.    : Verlinden Productions #2122, Church Corner 1/35 scale (about $35) It comes in about 12 pieces(mine had broken into about 15, but no matter) I did of course take all manner of weapon to those walls,( short of my hatchet and chainsaw) to enhance the shelling damage and also free up enough stones to form most of the rubble piles--so I cut apart the bricks as I tore down pieces, mostly  with my 5"Excel pull out saw(worked amazing) and detailed the damage with scriber & files.

Hans von Hammer wrote:

Even with all that sprue you laid down for rebar (an excellent idea, BTW)?  Odd...

Stern0 wrote:

Awsome work from you guys!! M.R., Always worth looking at again! INDY , Good stuff..looking forward to more from you!

~Thanks SternO ~ You bet they'll be more!

~ hey Eric, just saw this from last weekends Euro-Militaire

Kinda reminds me of

Two things ;

1. I like yours better

2.Yours came first ( think he'd seen it?) Just happenstance due to historical accuracy? hhmmm.......

INDY wrote:

Stern0 wrote: Awsome work from you guys!! M.R., Always worth looking at again! INDY , Good stuff..looking forward to more from you! ~Thanks SternO ~ You bet they'll be more! ~ hey Eric, just saw this from last weekends Euro-Militare Kinda reminds me of Two things ; 1. I like yours better 2.Yours came first ( think he'd seen it?) Just happenstance due to historical accuracy? hhmmm.......

What do you guys use to shape the Celluclay/Spackle/Plaster? I thought perhaps a small spatula. Anything else?

Also. what tracks and wheels do you use to make impressions of previous and current traffic on the terrain? Unwanted vinyls or length sdections or the ones you intend to place on the finished model?

That's all great work Manny and Indy. Thanks.

Mostly, I just use m' hands with latex gloves... If I need a spreader, I cut pieces of stiff cardboard or sheet plastic to size & shape...

For making tracks, I just use whatever track sections or tires that are laying around, and figures for footprints..

Thanks for the comment above Somenewguy.

All the stuff Hans mentioned will work for the rough work(bigger areas) ,but you know what "The Man said"...."never touch s**t, even with gloves on !     (Ok I specify that as comedy) Although I don't like getting dirty when I work--gloves are  a great tip!

For detail sculpting of terrain, these are my fav.

From bottom to top, a probe(or awl--or just a toothpick), pallete knife(oil painters spatula), putty applicator( about 2/$1 @ Harbor Freight),and last, but in no way least, a tongue depressor(popsickle sticks ok, but no where as good)   swipe a few of these next time at the Dr.  !

For making impressions of tires and tracks, any spares are good, or even saran wrap between model & ground medium can work. For the Ardenne Dio I made a simple stamp with some x-tra Sherman lengths and some scrap styrene and this worked perfect(with some mould release(or light oil even)on it to avoid build-up)of course I didn't clean it too well afterwards , as you see....