Call of Duty scene

The British and Canadians (or should we say all Commonwealth troops) had some personal anti-tank weapons, the largest being the PIAT (Portable Infantry Anti-Tank). It was a spring loaded spigot type of weapon. Some of the problems with it is that it couldn't be shot below the horizontal as the shell would shift with gravity and the strength needed to pull back the spring. You can see one used in the movie "A Bridge Too Far" and also in the Polish film "Kanal". The latter also has a German "Goliath" remote controlled demolition vehicle in use. It had a HEAT type of shaped charge for the warhead which didn't require high velocity to penetrate the target. A high intensity flame directed by the shape of the charge did the work. This is similar to the Bazooka, Panzerfaut and Panzershrek.

Gammon mines were also carried by British, I am not sure of the particulars, but they might have been magnetic.

Smoke grenades used by the US were of two types, chemical smoke and White Phosphorus(WP or Willie Peter). WP because of the heat associated with it as well as the choking smoke had an offensive capability. It could be used to clear out a building or a vehicle due to its toxic nature. The disadvantage of WP is that it didn't cling well to the ground generating a taller cloud than the chemical smoke grenade.

Mike T.

I wanted to buy a german heavy artilery team but it won't do with the tiger scene, there already a big artilery. and just to remind you that COD won best WW2 shooter game, its way better than metals of honor also the creaters are trying to make it at historiecly accurate as possible, all the levels are real battle and operation, but the action that your character is doing is mostly fake.

I do rely on web but there are so many info that its gets quite confusing, that why I check up here just to make sure (heck if I didn't came here my tiger would be totaly green) that's why I join this forum. Althought I really should buy more books on modeling, only one I have is FSM how to paint and weather book, which is really useful.

Here's another question, Did british, canadiens and U.S soldiers had exploded charges with them, or at least smoke bomb? charges are use to blow tanks up, while smoke bomb were to tell the location of a target to air support.

Hermesminiatures wrote:

I've gotten good diorama ideas from company of heroes, and while it's not completely accurate, it's a whole lot better than COD as far as historical accuracy!

Company of heroes is a great game.  I wish they come out with more games like that.  Problem with that game is that you never have A company size man power.   

HeavyArty wrote:

T-rex wrote: What I hear is when a bazooka fire its shot, the missile or rocket heat is so intenst that it burns the inside of the gune, after the shot the bazooka was too damage to use agin and was useless, is this true?   Nope, not true at all.  They were designed to be reusable and were quite effective for continued use.  As stated above, the majority of the exhaust just went out the back of the tube.  They had no issue with the tube burning out.  Again, a little bit of actual research will yield you great results to understanding the weapons and other aspects that yo keep asking about.

Bazooka team had the shooter and the loader, which means after each shot, the loader reloaded the round.  If you look at Band of Brothers, there is a scene where Lt. Welsh and his paratrooper shoots a round and then reloading it. 

Now, if you are thinking about LAW system, then that is different story.   

Instead of relying on video games as your source of references, check out some web sites and/or books for further detailed information.    

T-rex wrote:

What I hear is when a bazooka fire its shot, the missile or rocket heat is so intenst that it burns the inside of the gune, after the shot the bazooka was too damage to use agin and was useless, is this true?

Nope, not true at all.  They were designed to be reusable and were quite effective for continued use.  As stated above, the majority of the exhaust just went out the back of the tube.  They had no issue with the tube burning out.  Again, a little bit of actual research will yield you great results to understanding the weapons and other aspects that you keep asking and assuming about.

T-rex wrote:

What I hear is when a bazooka fire its shot, the missile or rocket heat is so intenst that it burns the inside of the gune, after the shot the bazooka was too damage to use agin and was useless, is this true?

If I remember rightly (and that is subject to some question), US Bazookas (mostly) had the rocket motor burn entirely in the tube.  The muzzle lip was added after '43 and that turned any of the exhaust following the rocket out of the tube away from the firer (which was hugely preferred over the rubber protective mask). 

Most of the rocket exhaust on the US Bazooka was right out the "breech" end of the tube, until the rocket began to accellerate up the tube.  Not that much tube-exhaust contact.  Which is why the M6(? either that of M9) bazooka could be split into two tubes with an interlock between them (for both carry disassembled, and locked together in firing mode).  The tube joint was a simple slip-ring joint with (IIRC) a 180º turn to close.  That joint would be just behind the firer's ear, so any "leaking" flame would likely been commented upon to this day <g>.

The Panzerschreck's rocket motor, though, was still burning on exiting the muzzle, thus the need for the big metal shield for the operator.  That PzSck rocket was most of 2cm bigger around, too--needed a bit more push to get down range.

Now, the Panzerfaust used a wooden staff when first issued, and IIRC, it had a blackpowder launching charge rather like a shotgun blank (but not a seperate cartridge per se).  That charge "lobbed" the round off its "stick" igniting a fuze train to light the rocket motor on the charge a couple meters or so in front of the shooter, so they could duck to not "eat" a bunch of rocket exhaust.  Once fired, the PzF "handle" was useless.  I've heard that some of the first Soviet RPGs, (which owed a lot to the P'faust) had some trouble with corrosive exhaust down the launching tube, making that tube much less useable with one's reloads.

U.S. Jeep (willys jeep) did carry .50 Cal as well as .30 machine guns.  Panzerschrek was also a single shot weapon, not multiple shot.  Both U.S. bazooka and Panzerschrek had to be reloaded after each shot.

Exactly.  Panzerfaust was a true, fire-one-and-discard weapon; Panzershreck could be reloaded.  I want to remember Pz.Shrk was 88mm; the US Bazooka in WWI aw 2.3" bore (the 3.5" saw action in KW).  The rounds for the Bazooka came in cardboard tubes which were in mustard khaki carriers, three to the pack.  (I've seen a QMC reference to an OD bag, but every bag I have ever actually seen was the mid-war mustard color.)  In a jeep, you probably would find as many reload bags as could be cadged, some as ditty/musette bags for swag, too.

I have a very nice example of one of those bags that I've yet to find dummy/training rounds to fill.  I keep meaning to set done the size of the thing if only to leave on the workbench in case I need to cobble one together.

I don't know if I still have a copy of it, but a decade ago I used to be heavy into the Advanced Squad Leader board game. One of the things that I enjoyed most were scenarios generated so your opponent didn't know your complete OD of units. To this I modeled off of someone's scenario generator for recon units one based upon the battle of the Bluge. As I said, this was great fun, better than most of the video games as both sides didn't know the all of unit types the other had until they moved and both sides had different objectives. You could have had both sides advancing (colliding) or both defending (probing reconaissance). Some of the situations that occured were when a panther goes down a road only to have a hidden paratrooper bazooka team send a round through its tail. This caused the German player to reconsider his advance as the only road was cut off and advanced his halfracks over the open field which had intersecting fields of fire from concealed M-10's and M-18's along the tree line. A quick end of the scenario occured.

I just wish that there was a video game (armor/infantry sim) out there that could encompass this type of structure. Most of the shooters out there are more fantasy than anything else. This would be great, especially if the game could be played either against another opponent or against the computer.

But true simulation games don't seem to sell well

Just day dreaming,

Mike T.

Okay, for now that's all, but the only thing that is accurate is the intro video of the game, with actual clips movie of the battles, whether its market garden or avalanche its a good thing that there some bonus material in the game about the vehicule, artileryand guns in the game!

kcmat wrote:

HeavyArty wrote: I wouldn't use any video game as reference for a dio or model.  They are not that historically accurate or detailed.  You will get much better info from good old research on internet sites or (heaven forbid) a reference book.  You will be amazed at what you will be able to find with some good ol' fashioned research. For inspiration yes! Referance no. I too enjoy WWII games on my comp and find myself inspired for a dio idea from either some action or a cutscene from the game. But As HeaveyArty said not for referance. Get the inspiration then do some research.

T-rex wrote:

Okay, but wille jeeps did had the .50 caliber gun on it, right? I have a small 1/72 wille jeep with a .50 caliber gun on it, I could use it on a scene. The bazooka, as we all know it was a U.S rocket launcher, but unlike the panzershrek, it only had one shot, is this true?

U.S. Jeep (willys jeep) did carry .50 Cal as well as .30 machine guns.  Panzerschrek was also a single shot weapon, not multiple shot.  Both U.S. bazooka and Panzerschrek had to be reloaded after each shot.  

Again, good history book or even online resources can offer you ton of knowledge.  If you are really taking building diorama seriously, then you also should invest good amount of time spending reading and researching.  

Good luck. 

Okay, but wille jeeps did had the .50 caliber gun on it, right?

I have a small 1/72 wille jeep with a .50 caliber gun on it, I could use it on a scene.

The bazooka, as we all know it was a U.S rocket launcher, but unlike the panzershrek, it only had one shot, is this true?

HeavyArty wrote:

m1garand wrote:   By the way, Germans used 7.92X57 (also referred as 8mm mauser, diameter in inches .323), not 7.62mm (which is the diameter of U.S. 30.06 and .308 nato bullets) for their infantry rifles (98K mauser) and their machine guns.  Looks like we are all thinking alike tonight.

I guess so my friend! 

m1garand wrote:

By the way, Germans used 7.92X57 (also referred as 8mm mauser, diameter in inches .323), not 7.62mm (which is the diameter of U.S. 30.06 and .308 nato bullets) for their infantry rifles (98K mauser) and their machine guns.

Looks like we are all thinking alike tonight.

You can use lots of stuff as inspiration to build your diorama, but I think one of the best things you can do before you build diorama is to go to your local book store/library to read some history books.   There are tons of books with lots of photos for the subject that you are interested in.   

By the way, Germans used 7.92X57 (also referred as 8mm mauser, diameter in inches .323), not 7.62mm (which is the diameter of U.S. 30.06 and .308 nato bullets) for their infantry rifles (98K mauser) and their machine guns. 

The german half-track hanoman or hazerman, can it be equipe with a .50 calider gun on it, and what was that truck primairy function in the war.

The Germans had two main machine guns in WWII, the MG 34 and MG 42. Both were 7.62 (about .30 caliber). Their next gun up was the 15mm found on the SdKfz251/21 Dillling kits.

BINGO! another idea right there, cause in the game you use them to shoot some panzers.

The german half-track hanoman or hazerman, can it be equipe with a .50 calider gun on it, and what was that truck primairy function in the war.

Can an 88 canon can also be a anti-tank canon? I think it's more of a anti-aircraft.

the situations aren't real but there is real stategis, for instant, in nomandy and in germany in operation market garden the allias wanted to make a clear route to berlin for there convod to move in,

Sort of.  Normandy was the invasion of Europe, the strategy was to overwhelm the German shore defences at a weak point and where they did not expect it, in order to gain a foothold on the continent.  The German froces expected the invasion to come at Calais, the shortest point across the channel and Allied intelligence fed German agents false info about an invasion coming there.  Operation Market Garden in Holland was an attempt to bypass the Sigfried Line on the France/Germany border and open up a northern route into Germany.  Neither one was for a clear route to Berlin. 

Now that you have an idea for a dio from the game, you should do some actual research and find out about units and vehicles that participated in the actual campaigns, maybe the terrain you want to put them in, time of year, etc. so that it can be realistic.  Or just build it as you like and have it a what-if dio from the game.

Also, a forum tip:  If you edit your message in Word or some other spell-checker first, it will catch typos, capitalization, and grammer errors and make them much easier to read.

good one Iyaayas. I get the point of "leaving reality at the door" but we all can make dio of the exact 100% accuart event of the scene, we gotta have ideas from books, internet, photos, and sometime movies and in this case games. that's what so great about dioramas!

Any other opinion?

Guys...it's a game, have fun with it.  Of course it's not accurate!  Why does everything need to be overly analyzed.  Just think back 30 years ago when the only war games we had were made outta card board!

Lighten up!

Yeah video games are probably not the best source of information you have to choose from. many parts of most games (especially CoD) are based off of movies, which has already put their own dramatic spin on whatever it's about, then the developers of the game add in extra stuff to make it entertaining to play, and by the end of this process you wind up with a large amount of historical innacuracies. I also personally don't trust anything that gets information from Enemy at The Gates.

 Nonetheless Call of Duty is a pretty cool game. any chance anyone here plays Day of Defeat?

I especially like the five or six shots from a M1 Garand that's required before your opponent decides to lay down and stay down! It plays both ways though, as you can take quite a beating before you die in CoD. CoD2 is worse, though. You NEVER die, all you have to do is find a hiding hole before building up your health.

CoD: UO had arty, which seems like fun, until your opponents figure out your spawn point and then it's spawn, die, spawn, die, etc. You could drive the jeeps and tanks. My buds and I had a great game one time where all we did was use the jeeps and run each other over.

Inspiration: yes! Reality: NO!