"Excuse me, Miss--we're lost..."

madmike wrote:

Manny  It looks great from eye and I am not so much in to analysing whys and wherefores. Give me an aircraft and that might be another story though! On a serious note though,  I am ignoring the darker possibility to the diorama, sorry to raise that but as my 18 year old was raped 18 months ago, I am very sensitive to these things now. But ignoring that, it looks great. I am very impressed just how well your figures turned out. Love seeing your inspirational work! cheers  Mike

"sorry to hear about your daughter; it was never the intent of the dio to imply or condone attrocities of war..."

I understand that :) Diorama's should not really have to deal with those sort of issues really. 

IYAAYAS wrote:

Pheasant or not there would be some sort of shelter for protection from the elements, come on now!

Pheasant?

Great work, as usual. Regardless of whether it did or did not happen, it is very believable, and I enjoy the creativity of it. It's the thought that counts...

Manny: I've been thinking about this dio for a few days and have some thoughts about the narrative (the technicalities have been discussed well above. The only thing I can add, is that nothing simulates a tree like a tree...I think that the right small branch works really well as a 1/35 tree trunk). Your technical execution is very very good. Nice job.

Back to the narrative, I see a couple of soldiers walking towards a woman in a vulnerable and defensive position (so her body language says). This places the power with the soldiers who have no problem encroaching on her personal space. To me, despite the innocent sounding title, has a sinsiter undertone to it, as they are exploiting their position of power.

If you do intend for the soldiers to be simply asking the way, they could be doing this from their vehicle...think about the difference between someone getting out of their car and approaching you on the sidewalk vs someone asking advice from their car. In LA no one even talks car to car any more because of the danger involved.

The reaosn I am bringing this us is beacuse the narrative is often very important in a diorama, and if we work on making it clear and understanding the implied nuances, then dioramas can really kick it up a notch.

vespa boy wrote:

Manny: I've been thinking about this dio for a few days and have some thoughts about the narrative (the technicalities have been discussed well above. The only thing I can add, is that nothing simulates a tree like a tree...I think that the right small branch works really well as a 1/35 tree trunk). Your technical execution is very very good. Nice job. Back to the narrative, I see a couple of soldiers walking towards a woman in a vulnerable and defensive position (so her body language says). This places the power with the soldiers who have no problem encroaching on her personal space. To me, despite the innocent sounding title, has a sinsiter undertone to it, as they are exploiting their position of power. If you do intend for the soldiers to be simply asking the way, they could be doing this from their vehicle...think about the difference between someone getting out of their car and approaching you on the sidewalk vs someone asking advice from their car. In LA no one even talks car to car any more because of the danger involved. The reaosn I am bringing this us is beacuse the narrative is often very important in a diorama, and if we work on making it clear and understanding the implied nuances, then dioramas can really kick it up a notch.

RALPH G WILLIAMS wrote:

It looks like trouble for her. The solders look grim.  But it could be an ambush for them. imo

Manny - A gorgeous piece of artwork.  Inventive, and tastefully provocative with a hint of blush.  I would compare it with a fine Shiraz having great concentration and firm tannins, with spicy, dry-fruit flavors -  fleshy, but is not overly fruity . 

Exceptionally well done.  Thanks for sharing it with us.

OT - I think this is post #500 for me

Larry

Manny, I like this one, too. Differences aside, I think you did great with the painting. Sure, she probably had enough time to get out of the water before they pulled up, but I like the baiting theory. Plus, then there wouldn't be a hot, nekkid chick on the base

Did I respond to this thread already? I can't remember. I so sleepy.

Steve

subfixer wrote:

Yeah, what the doog said.

DesertRat wrote:

On the contrary, Bill. They are indeed Nazis. Take note of the National Socialist markings on the front and the rear of the vehicle. That insignia that looks like a shield with the crooked cross in a circular form? That was one of the versions that was associated with the 3rd Reich in the 30s and 40s. Unless i'm misunderstanding what you are saying...

I have tevelled extensively throughout Germany and have many, many friends there who I have pressed for details on their familys' history in the war. There are some who are quite candid about their relatives' political persuausions--one had a grandfather hung for war crimes as a member of "Das reich"--but in general, most were regular Wehrmacht just fighting to get back to their families and livelihoods.

A cynic may say that they might not be altogether 100% honest, but given the overwhelming percentage of those who deny any National Socialist affiliation,--and believe it or not, most younger Germans are quite brutally honest and self-effacing about this kind of stuff-- I will believe they are truthful until at such time that something surfaces to prove that contention wrong.  

BTW, Manny--all in all it is a well-painted and constructed scene, but to be honest, it's a bit vaguely-risque, and leaves the first thing it arouses in me is (no, not THAT! ) a perhaps-instinctive sense of concern and worry for the young lady there. It would be a great scene in a "dream sequence" of a modern movie, but would certainly earn the movie a "R" rating!

I would have put the girl in a more appropriate setting, such as inside a house where one would have expected her, and thus, where the unexpected entry of the officers would have been more realistic. Additionally, as this would have been a believable scenario, it would have removed any perceived nefarious or prurient intent on your behalf to the viewer.

A nicely painted dio though!  

the doog wrote:

BTW, Manny--all in all it is a well-painted and constructed scene, but to be honest, it's a bit vaguely-risque, and leaves the first thing it arouses in me is (no, not THAT! ) a perhaps-instinctive sense of concern and worry for the young lady there. It would be a great scene in a "dream sequence" of a modern movie, but would certainly earn the movie a "R" rating! I would have put the girl in a more appropriate setting, such as inside a house where one would have expected her, and thus, where the unexpected entry of the officers would have been more realistic. Additionally, as this would have been a believable scenario, it would have removed any perceived nefarious or prurient intent on your behalf to the viewer. A nicely painted dio though!

Mansteins revenge wrote:

the doog wrote: ..a sinister or dark ending in the viewer's mind in this case very well might indicate more of what the viewer is thinking than what the artist had in mind...

Im thinking that we have a lot of prudes here that are easily offended. It is amazing that if there were a small structure involved and the bathing beauty happend to be inside said structure there would be much less hoopla abound. It seems that the taboo of public nudity has shocked some otherwise level headed members of our community. Of course as previously stated by manstein this is not burbank this is rural russia and such taboo's are much less severe in that part of the world especially where there is no choice involved. I dont believe this girl would be bathing outside if she had a nice indoor bathroom with heated floors and a jacuzzi tub.

 As for the percieved darkness in the scene remember that it is your mind that is filling in the blanks in the story, so if the first thing you think about is the brutal rape of a pesant woman who was just trying to take a bath along side the road, you may want to examine your own heart. Remeber throughout history anger towards and persicution of partiular risque behaviors has generally been handed out by people with a proclivity for such things and use the mob mentality as a shield to protect their own dark hearts. For those who dont belive me, show this to a child, I would bet dollers to donuts that the little girl would see this as the princess's guards coming to help her put her beautiful gown on after her royal nature bath and the boy something about rescuing the princess from the evil men that took her clothes away. As for me, I have come up with everything from two gentleman asking for directions, to an ambush on the soldiers using the girl as bait and everything in between. And that is the point of a good diorama I think, not only to show a peice of the story well, but also to leave enough of the story untold so your audience can entertain themselves with such things. To that effect I think this is well done. Good work manstein.....even if you do have the habit of putting scantily clad woman in your work. To each his own, and hey at least you made her look good.  

*edit* Ok so just looked at it again a little closer, did you see the lipstick color on that woman? Pesant girl my A$$, GET OUT OF THERE GUYS ITS A TRAP!!!!!

the doog wrote:

DesertRat wrote: On the contrary, Bill. They are indeed Nazis. Take note of the National Socialist markings on the front and the rear of the vehicle. That insignia that looks like a shield with the crooked cross in a circular form? That was one of the versions that was associated with the 3rd Reich in the 30s and 40s. Unless i'm misunderstanding what you are saying... Don't want to pick a fight here, but I agree that it is manifestly unfair and incorrect to so broadly tag all German soldiers with the demeaning moniker of "Nazi's". Anyone who has read any WWII history from the German side would know that this is an inaccurately-broad generalization. It would be akin to labelling all US soldiers currently serving as "Neocons". I have tevelled extensively throughout Germany and have many, many friends there who I have pressed for details on their familys' history in the war. There are some who are quite candid about their relatives' political persuausions--one had a grandfather hung for war crimes as a member of "Das reich"--but in general, most were regular Wehrmacht just fighting to get back to their families and livelihoods. A cynic may say that they might not be altogether 100% honest, but given the overwhelming percentage of those who deny any National Socialist affiliation,--and believe it or not, most younger Germans are quite brutally honest and self-effacing about this kind of stuff-- I will believe they are truthful until at such time that something surfaces to prove that contention wrong.

Perhaps i had been rather loose with the affiliation label, and for the most part, that's why i had backed away from this thread. I too have had about 3 1/2 years in Germany myself. I do agree with you that by and large the third reich was and still is a black eye throughout Germanys history (much like the issue of slavery in early American history). While i too agree that the general population were mostly fighting for their homes and families, i do wonder if maybe a larger percentage may indeed have been active members of the National Socialist party even down to the lowest private. After all consider the timing of the scenario- When Hitler came to power, it was during the financial and economic ruin of Germany due to the heavy reperations imposed by the League of Nations. As evil as Hitler was, he was also a very charismatic and influential leader and told the German people exactly what they wanted to hear. And while the majority of those fighting may not have been influenced members of the party, i do believe that there would have been alot more in the ranks other than the select few that were convicted at Neuremburg. Though honestly speaking, i have no numbers to back that up with (nor would there probably be any, in the name of self preservation after the surrender in 1945)

   But you are right, and it's not fair for me to generalize. Therefore i apoligize and rescind my original statement. After all, who's to say what true affiliation that the Panzer subjects in the Diorama might be.

But i will stand by one original statement i had made, in that this particular build was very well done! Can we bury the proverbial hatchet now?

TheLastPriest wrote:

Im thinking that we have a lot of prudes here that are easily offended. It is amazing that if there were a small structure involved and the bathing beauty happend to be inside said structure there would be much less hoopla abound. It seems that the taboo of public nudity has shocked some otherwise level headed members of our community. Of course as previously stated by manstein this is not burbank this is rural russia and such taboo's are much less severe in that part of the world especially where there is no choice involved. I dont believe this girl would be bathing outside if she had a nice indoor bathroom with heated floors and a jacuzzi tub.

I don't think most inputs were concerned about the nudity, just the fact that, to some, it seems out of place.  Thats all...

Priest,

After reading this whole post and all the comments, you have summed up my thoughts on the subject to a tee! With the exception of the on person who had a personal experience, and unless you have had a personal experience with a rape situation, I dont understand why that is the first thing that pops into someones mind.

Thanks for posting this work of art Manny. I admire anyone who has enough skills to build a dio like this and paint figures and vehicles the way you do. And the addition of the "risque" elements brings something interesting and different into otherwise "same ole same ole" dios.

"Mein Herr...is that a Walther in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?"

Thought I'd inject a little humor here after reading some of these posts. It's only a model diorama and since the trough ended at the corner of the base, one could imagine a nearby barn or farmhouse that is just out of sight. If the base was larger a section of such a building could have been added in.

I like the ideal of adding a female figure to dio's when done tastefully. I just found some 1/35th WW-II German woman Auxillary and Luftwaffe Flakhelfreninnen figures that I plan to work into a future dio.

Archangel Shooter wrote:

"Mein Herr...is that a Walther in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?"

Lol

Archangel Shooter wrote:

"Mein Herr...is that a Walther in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?" Thought I'd inject a little humor here after reading some of these posts. It's only a model diorama and since the trough ended at the corner of the base, one could imagine a nearby barn or farmhouse that is just out of sight. If the base was larger a section of such a building could have been added in. I like the ideal of adding a female figure to dio's when done tastefully. I just found some 1/35th WW-II German woman Auxillary and Luftwaffe Flakhelfreninnen figures that I plan to work into a future dio.

Here's 4 of the 5 Female Auxilaries figures I purchased from Miniature park, a Tokyo hobby shop I found on line. It took only 4 days for the order to arrive.

Scott

Desert Rat--no problem, man! Honestly, there's no "hatchet' to bury!

I was just speaking out in defense of some of my German friends!

I'm just a little more sensitive about the appropriation of the word "Nazi"--which seems to be thrown around a lot in the most careless of ways sometimes, especially by some political pundits lately--so I just feel the need to speak out and clarify what my opinion is about the whole ruckus!

But honestly; no harm, no foul!