1/48 B-17 Group Build...ALL INVITED TO JOIN!

viper_mp wrote:

Hans- Thanks for the info.  I do indeed have resin wheels, but I might slip a brass rod through the hub.  I also have resin for the nose, cockpit, nav/radio room, bombay, waist, engines and a few other areas.  And a ton of PE.  I plan on opening all of the hatches, as it is NOT the visible version.  I have been in, and photographed 4 different G's, including the backsides of the hatches.  Might even open the ball-turret hatch. And I'm thinking some LEDs might be good too.

Good call on the brass axle... I've only flown in "Texas Raiders", haven't been in any other Forts, and I don't remember if it was TR or "Sentimental Journey" that had an operating ball turret... Last I was down there in Midland was '99... I never got any good pics of either ball interior though, shoulda took advantage when I had the chance.  I've got one photo I found in my web-crawls...  All the ones I took were exterior shots of TR's ball... Here's te one I found:

As for LEDs, I've thought about that too, going back to when I lit the B-29 (attempted to would be closer to the truth.  The fiber optics didn't work as well for me as they did Shep Paine, lol) bomb bay and waist. 

Thanks for that pic, viper.  Doesn't look like I'd be able to fit that seat anywhere in my build, though.  Looks as though revell may have shortened the scale distance between the waist gunner position and the hatch.  Oh well, I can always tell people it was mounted on the other side (the clear side of the bird) .

-Fred

-Tiny- wrote:

Well guys, I'm callin' it...she's done.  I finished her this afternoon around 6.  Well, for my fifth aircraft and the first weathering job in my collection, I can say that I'm really proud of this piece...Never have I put so much work into a piece of plastic before...I know it's not perfect or a close match to the real plane, but I love it. I used to pump out 3 or 4 cars a month when I did them...I have much more respect for aircraft modeling now. I want to thank everyone who helped me out along the way.  Especially B-17 Guy and Hans von Hammer, thanks again for the bomb racks.  All of your tips, suggestions and critiques are very much apreciated...couldn't have done it without your help.  Just because I'm done, doesn't mean I'm not going to keep tabs on the group.  I really hope I see some more progress soon...things have kind of died off latley.  I know it's a busy time for all of us, but the holidays are over...SO GET BACK TO WORK!

Nice job, Tiny, she looks good.  This is only your fifth plane?

Now the big question-where to display her?

Regards,

Brad

Gigatron wrote:

Thanks for that pic, viper.  Doesn't look like I'd be able to fit that seat anywhere in my build, though.  Looks as though revell may have shortened the scale distance between the waist gunner position and the hatch.  Oh well, I can always tell people it was mounted on the other side (the clear side of the bird) . -Fred

They were also mounted in the radio compartment...

The seats in the pic above are not WWII operational seating. The jump seats hans is talking about would have been in the radio room on the right side of the aircraft. The seats you see in the pic are add ons put there for paying customers. Here's a link, this is what the operational jump seats would look like, 6th and 7th pic show them a bit. Best I could do.

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=173036&hl=B-17

Hey Hans,

You mentioned 3 seats for the waist gunners and turret gunner, but there was 4th crewman back there - where did he sit?  Also, the one pic shows 2 additional seats in the radio room, so that's still at least one seat missing - any idea where it was located?

Thanks,

Fred

I was at the Texas Air Museum this week in San Antonio.  This poster was hanging on the wall and I thought you guys might have use for it.  (I've tried to post with enough resolution to be of use.

Gigatron wrote:

Hey Hans, You mentioned 3 seats for the waist gunners and turret gunner, but there was 4th crewman back there - where did he sit?  Also, the one pic shows 2 additional seats in the radio room, so that's still at least one seat missing - any idea where it was located?

According to m' B-17 tailgunner-uncle (actually have two that were gunners and another one that was a pilot, but lost them when they passed about 20 and 10 years ago, respectively), there was no jump-seat forward of the tail for him.. He rode the tail for the duration, and although he could go forward in-flight, the aircraft commanders wanted them in the tail to keep an eye on other Forts in the formation for collision warnings during climb-out and join-up.   He doesn't remember there ever having been 4 seats in the back until Boeing made a kit to be installed in the field and that one went in RC as well.  I have no idea what it looked like, and he doesn't remember (he's 88, so I cut him some slack)...  If I had to guess, I'd say it was behind the radioman's seat if installed. 

As the war progressed and enemy fighters became fewer, the 8th AF cut the bombardier out of the crew and a gunner moved forward and became a "Togglier, or cross-trained Navigators to operate the Norden (if it was installed) and became "Bombagators"...  The Bombagators and Toggliers dropped their bombs when they saw the lead Bombardier drop his bombs, known as "Toggling on the Leader"...    

Cool, thanks for the info

****NEED HELP FROM ALL BUILDERS OF THE REVELL KIT****

Ok guys, I'm working in the nose area and I'm using the eduard PE set.  In the PE instructions, it call to add parts to kit part no. 49 (boxy looking thing, mounts up where the bomb sight would be).  I've been over every sprue at least 5 times and I can't find it.  It's not that the part fell off and I can't find it, I can't find an attachment point for part no. 49.  If anyone can find it and tell me which sprue it's on, I'd really appreciate it.

I've been over the kit instructions as well, and I can't seem to find a call out for a part no. 49 either.  THere's a 48, a 50 and a 51, but I don't see a 49.  Why would they skip over it?

Thanks in advance.

-Fred

I've started work on my B-17 again, while I wait to get a airbrush for finish my B-52.  I decided not to do alot of the detail work for the areas inside, just from doing that on my B-29 and then not seeing anything after I closed it up.

Oh and Happy New Year

GREAT!?! ... This group is going to get me started on my 17 again .... (I only sound dreadful b/c I took a break from it about 3 months ago b/c the detail was killing me! ...but it's addictive though ain't it!!!!)

I read TONS of write ups about how NOT to go into too much detail on the interior b/c once it's closed up, you won't see it ... well, I ignored them. Much to my disappointment ... they were right.

As far as my build goes ... I'm complete on the interior with the halves closed up. I'm working on the wings, wheel bays, some damage (as I'm modeling it in flight) ... which actually brings me to my question/ concern.

I've got a great idea for a dio set up. I wanted to do it frankly b/c I've never seen it done before. As above, I want to model it in flight. I plan on using an old photo from my grandfather (a bombardier) as the "view" below the ship on the base. I then want to (somehow) "hang" the ship above the base. Now, what I'm thinking is this ... I want to cut a flat piece of plexi-glass about a 1/2 - 3/4" wide and about 8" long. This will be my "stand". Then, IOT hide that, I plan on hanging/ dropping bomb payload, using the plexi-glass as the attachment point for the bombs.

What do you guys think? Do you think it would be possible? The thing that I'm most concerned about is the weight if the finished model, transporting it, and most importantly, where/ how to attach the plexi-glass stand to the ship. I want to keep it balanced and secure.

Any suggestions? Thanks for allowing me to write this "novel" today. As soon as I get my external HD plugged in, I'll try to post some pictures.

BTW ... Mono 1/48 B-17G is the kit.

First off Welcome to the site and the build

I know all about finishing the interior detail, then glueing the to halfs together and having all that work covered up. Your idea does sound interesting, I hope it turnes out well.

Scott - Welcome to the build along man...It's good to hear that you're going to try something different...looking forward to seeing how it materializes.

FeldMarschall - Great to see that you've gotten back to your B-17...What happened to your airbrush?  I noticed some runs on the masking tape from your pics of your Strat. 

I can understand why you are not putting alot of time into the interior...with in not being seen and all...What exterior finish are you planning?  Natural aluminium...Olive over gray...some cammo perhaps?

One reason is it was a six dollar paint brush lol, no really the tip were you change the paint flow, it was change by itselfs from a fine stream to a big fat stream.  And the over spray was getting to bad, were half my new work table got coverd in a black mist.  I'm buying new airbrush to replace it.

I was reading some stuff over on Wikipedia were the German Luftwaffe got there hands on 40 Fortress, from the planes ether crash landing, or being forced down.  And that some kept there Allied markings in attempts to infiltrate B-17 formations and to report on their position and altitude.  Army Air Force combat aircrews quickly developed and established standard procedures to first warn off, and then fire upon any "stranger" trying to join a group's formation

FeldMarSchall Model wrote:

I was reading some stuff over on Wikipedia were the German Luftwaffe got there hands on 40 Fortress, from the planes ether crash landing, or being forced down.  And that some kept there Allied markings in attempts to infiltrate B-17 formations and to report on their position and altitude.  Army Air Force combat aircrews quickly developed and established standard procedures to first warn off, and then fire upon any "stranger" trying to join a group's formation

I've read conflicting reports on that. If you can get yourself a copy "Strangers in a strange land, vol I" by squadron signal, I think you'd find it interesting. That book says that while did operate downed B-17's, they were never operated in they're US markings to infiltrate our bomber formations. There was a kind of a un-written rule against those sort of things. From what I've read (my educated guess, not fact either way) the only time the luftwaffe ever flew our a/c in US markings was for propaganda purposes. However...I have read US accounts of strange B-17's pulling into bomber formations for a bit, then peeling away right before flak started to come up. But those reports never mentioned what marking were on those planes.

I'm tell'n you though man, you should try to find that book, it's really interesting even just as a differant part of WWII that you dont really think of. It gives a run down of what allied types fell into german hands, an what did with them. Repairable a/c were fixed up while the non fixable where stripped of anything useful then collected and scrapped. I find the part of the book "how a B-17 turns into a messerschmit" pretty interesting.

Well guys...I went over the Fort one last time to fix up some things I missed and to make some changes after a few apreciated cretiques.

Fixes include: 

Making the ehaust stacks look more rusty and used.

Adding more weathering to the belly and under the wings.

Adding a wash to the door and hatch seems.

Bringing out the control surface detail under the wings and stabilizers.

Didn't notice this before...but I cut a seem where the bomb bay doors meet in the middle (it was filled in before)

Added some black to the turbo unit exaust ports

Painted over the chips I had made in the rubber de-icer boots

Totally forgot to put on the black antenna under the cockpit.

Tiny, your B-17 is looking even better.  Now she looks like she's had some flying time.

B-17 Guy, I had no idea any of that stuff was true, just thought it was interesting.  I did find this site that gives description's of seven B-17's that were captured, along with a few pictures.  I'll have to look into that book some time.

One of planes a F model named Wulf Hound, found herself in the center of attention were every she went.

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/b17fortress.html

B-17 Guy wrote:

FeldMarSchall Model wrote: I was reading some stuff over on Wikipedia were the German Luftwaffe got there hands on 40 Fortress, from the planes ether crash landing, or being forced down.  And that some kept there Allied markings in attempts to infiltrate B-17 formations and to report on their position and altitude.  Army Air Force combat aircrews quickly developed and established standard procedures to first warn off, and then fire upon any "stranger" trying to join a group's formation I've read conflicting reports on that. If you can get yourself a copy "Strangers in a strange land, vol I" by squadron signal, I think you'd find it interesting. That book says that while did operate downed B-17's, they were never operated in they're US markings to infiltrate our bomber formations. There was a kind of a un-written rule against those sort of things. From what I've read (my educated guess, not fact either way) the only time the luftwaffe ever flew our a/c in US markings was for propaganda purposes. However...I have read US accounts of strange B-17's pulling into bomber formations for a bit, then peeling away right before flak started to come up. But those reports never mentioned what marking were on those planes. I'm tell'n you though man, you should try to find that book, it's really interesting even just as a differant part of WWII that you dont really think of. It gives a run down of what allied types fell into german hands, an what did with them. Repairable a/c were fixed up while the non fixable where stripped of anything useful then collected and scrapped. I find the part of the book "how a B-17 turns into a messerschmit" pretty interesting.

I got my hands on that book through Squadron ... It didn't really help me with my build, but it had great pictures and was an interesting read. I recommend it.

Here's another one for the BG .... My grandfather's ship, or the one he flew the most in, was one of the converted ships with a 20mm cannon in the rear. I've already got it scratchbuilt, but was wondering if anyone had come across some information about the sights for the dang thing? The original ship still had the old tail, so I was wondering if it still used the old sights that were mounted on the exterior ... just outside of the window?

And one last question .... would there happen to be anyone out there that has ties to the 2nd Bomb Group that was stationed in Fogia, Italy during WWII. My grandfather was in the 49th SQ and I'm always looking for more information about the group.

Any help would be great! Thanks again.

B-17 Guy wrote:

The only thing I can offer is a bit of info on the 20mm in the tail. As far as I've read, there were some that had the ring and bead sight and some that had other sight. It was a short lived experiment that was abandoned because when the 20mm was fired, it would cause the rivets to pop in the rear of the aircraft from the recoil. Even when they tried it in B-29's (20mm cannon with twin .50's) they abandoned the cannon because the recoil caused the .50's to jam. Also, they found the cannon to be ineffective on both aircraft.

Thanks, Guy .... Thats pretty much in-line with everything that I've read thus far. Seems that everything that was a "field mod" was pretty much left up the crews. I think that I'm just going to with the exterior sight.

As far as the 20's effectiveness ... It may not have worked great, but AIN'T IT COOL!!! My grandfather was a bomberdier, and in his journal he talked about "knowing when the 20 was used". He said that he could feel it all the way up front! He also said that it was an SOP with his crew that while he was on the bomb run the 20 wouldn't be fired as "it messed with the Norden" sight. WOW!!! Now that's powerful!!!

Hey guys, just thought I'd shoot a couple pics of how I'm displaying my bird...

Man...has anyone been working on their Forts latley?  Let's see some pics guys...

While they were both a blasty blast to build...the 17 was more of a challenge.  It took me 2 weeks to do the 29...One colour (besides a touch of yellow), no weahtering.  The 17 took me over 2 months of steady work, two-tone paint, a tonn of putty and sanding, a few PE parts and my first weathering job.  Never have I put so much work into a piece....but it shows I think.  The 29 was nice, but the 17 is on another level.

Stay tuned for the Tupolev Bear! 

I probably wont be able to work on mine until summer starts becuase of college.  However I am renting my first place this summer and plan on moving my figure workshop into my new townhome.

VA

Today I fitted in the cockpit floot into the front, there is an instrument panel that was in the way so I just took it out.  The part fit with out that panel was good.

TINY! ...So dang good, it gives me goosebumps!

Fantastic job on that Flying Fortress! LUV-it!