Dr. Strangelove B-52

Range: 2 miles; missile still deflecting. Range: one mile; missile detonated! "

The missile that damaged the 52 detonated at 1 mile while deflected off course. Any idea what type it would need to be in order to damage the plane at that distance? Is it realistic?

Rudi35 wrote:

"Range: 10 miles. Missile track deflecting. Continue evasive action. Deflection increasing; range: 8 miles. Deflection still increasing; range: 6 miles. Missile still deflecting; range: 4 miles. Range: 2 miles; missile still deflecting. Range: one mile; missile detonated! " The missile that damaged the 52 detonated at 1 mile while deflected off course. Any idea what type it would need to be in order to damage the plane at that distance? Is it realistic?

The USAF deployed AIR-2 the Genie an unguided missile with a 1.5 Kiloton nuclear warhead, up to 3,000 of them. It was the primary armament on the later series of F-89's.  The theory was that the missile would detonate in the path of the oncoming bomber stream and kill the crews. I corresponded with one F-89 pilot who said that frankly it was a pretty scary scheme where the interceptor pilot had to break off from the fireball, while the Russians who already knew they were on a one-way death flight, came through the other way.I think he used the term "hairball of nuclear war". That never left me.

La Puta was the island where Gulliver encountered superior intelligence in mathematics.

bondoman wrote:

Rudi35 wrote: "Range: 10 miles. Missile track deflecting. Continue evasive action. Deflection increasing; range: 8 miles. Deflection still increasing; range: 6 miles. Missile still deflecting; range: 4 miles. Range: 2 miles; missile still deflecting. Range: one mile; missile detonated! " The missile that damaged the 52 detonated at 1 mile while deflected off course. Any idea what type it would need to be in order to damage the plane at that distance? Is it realistic? It's hard to know, that stuff is forever classified. In the movie the plane is running away from it, so it might have survived. The USAF deployed AIR-2 the Genie an unguided missile with a 1.5 Kiloton nuclear warhead, up to 3,000 of them. It was the primary armament on the later series of F-89's.  The theory was that the missile would detonate in the path of the oncoming bomber stream and kill the crews. I corresponded with one F-89 pilot who said that frankly it was a pretty scary scheme where the interceptor pilot had to break off from the fireball, while the Russians who already knew they were on a one-way death flight, came through the other way.I think he used the term "hairball of nuclear war". That never left me. La Puta was the island where Gulliver encountered superior intelligence in mathematics.

Thanks for the reply bondoman. I was wondering if it was a nuclear device due to the distance but wasn't sure if they were deployed at that time by the Russians or if it was pure movie fantasy.

That's an interesting tidbit about La Puta. I always thought the named sounded rather odd.

bondoman wrote:

Sellars was to play Kong, even learned a Texas accent, until he broke his leg, which is why Dr. S is in a chair. The production sent a letter to John Wayne requesting he play Major Kong. They never heard back. Second choice was Dan Blocker, but couldn't reach terms. I think ole Slim was just the right guy. There's a rumor that when Kong completes the inventory of the survival kit and says "Fella could have a nice time in Vegas with this" he said "Dallas" but it was overdubbed in final production. (The movie came out in December 1963.)

rabbiteatsnake wrote:

bondoman wrote:       Sellars was to play Kong, even learned a Texas accent, until he broke his leg, which is why Dr. S is in a chair. The production sent a letter to John Wayne requesting he play Major Kong. They never heard back. Second choice was Dan Blocker, but couldn't reach terms. I think ole Slim was just the right guy. There's a rumor that when Kong completes the inventory of the survival kit and says "Fella could have a nice time in Vegas with this" he said "Dallas" but it was overdubbed in final production. (The movie came out in December 1963.) If you look close you can see that Slim indeed says Dallas.  As for my favorite line, its when Sellers says to Keenan Wynn "Well  colonel Bat Gauno, if that is your real name---".

bondoman wrote:

rabbiteatsnake wrote:  bondoman wrote:       Sellars was to play Kong, even learned a Texas accent, until he broke his leg, which is why Dr. S is in a chair. The production sent a letter to John Wayne requesting he play Major Kong. They never heard back. Second choice was Dan Blocker, but couldn't reach terms. I think ole Slim was just the right guy. There's a rumor that when Kong completes the inventory of the survival kit and says "Fella could have a nice time in Vegas with this" he said "Dallas" but it was overdubbed in final production. (The movie came out in December 1963.) If you look close you can see that Slim indeed says Dallas.  As for my favorite line, its when Sellers says to Keenan Wynn "Well  colonel Bat Gauno, if that is your real name---". Oh yeah! And Wynn: "if you're not right about this you're gonna be in a lot of trouble with the Coca Cola Company".

Sorry about doing this, but as some people are Rivet Nazis I'm the same with movie lines :)

Guano:

Ok. I'm gonna get your money for you. But if you don't get the President of the Unites States on that phone, you know what's going to happen to you?

Mandrake:

What?

Guano:

You're going to have to answer to the Coca-Cola Company.

Rudi35 wrote:

T_Terrific wrote:  Rudi35 wrote: ------------------------------- One thing I noticed about Kubrick's movies in general is that they all lack a love story (only ‘lust' stories).  I find this refreshing and I think it adds to the surrealistic qualities of his movies. You're not referring to George Scott's portrayal of General "Bucky Turgid" are you ("Keep the motor running, I'll be right back")? Tom T Yup! That's definitely a good example The final version of that line in the movie was: "I know how it is, baby. Tell you what you do. You just start your countdown, and old Bucky'll be back here before you can say... Blast Off!" -------

You're right, of course.

I believe I must have swapped Scott's line for a line from a Bob Hope movie.

Tom T

It was the shockwave of the explosion that would destroy or seriously damage the approaching bombers. This strategy was also used by our communist foes, hence one reason we went from high altitude large formation strikes to low knap of the earth single ship. The odds increased dramatically, or so it was thought.

Our ability to jamb enemy radar with Genie missiles helped ensure more bombers from being intercepted. We tend to forget that what technology doesn't see the Mk I eyeball and ears could detect...the human on the ground observer could relay info to help assets intercept the bombers. The British were very effective at doing this in WWII during the B of B. 

In the Clint Eastwood flick where he stole a Mig, he was detected by listening posts along the mountains as he left a supersonic noise footprint.

Spotters here in the US during WWII would listen to aircraft at night and report type and direction, of flight. Most "listeners" could recognized the type of aircraft by its engine noise.

Rudi35 wrote:

That's an interesting tidbit about La Puta. I always thought the named sounded rather odd.

FYI, "La Puta" is Spanish for "The Prostitute".

It is often used in a derrogative sense between Spanish speaking men.

Tom T

HawkeyeHobbies wrote:

It was the shockwave of the explosion that would destroy or seriously damage the approaching bombers. This strategy was also used by our communist foes, hence one reason we went from high altitude large formation strikes to low knap of the earth single ship. The odds increased dramatically, or so it was thought. Our ability to jamb enemy radar with Genie missiles helped ensure more bombers from being intercepted. We tend to forget that what technology doesn't see the Mk I eyeball and ears could detect...the human on the ground observer could relay info to help assets intercept the bombers. The British were very effective at doing this in WWII during the B of B.  In the Clint Eastwood flick where he stole a Mig, he was detected by listening posts along the mountains as he left a supersonic noise footprint. Spotters here in the US during WWII would listen to aircraft at night and report type and direction, of flight. Most "listeners" could recognized the type of aircraft by its engine noise.

But at the same time, I do not think that the radiation exposure factor can be ignored as part of our psychological warfare efforts.

Remember that when Strangelove (Sellers) said regarding the Russian "Doomsday Device", "It isn't very effective [as a deterrent] if you don't tell anyone about it" he captured the essence of the Cold War philosophy.

Due to the basic strategy, 99% of our cold war weapons were based on a concept of bluffing the other guy from using his first. This way we could "lever" the other guy internationally and/or undermine the morale of his fighting men.

A lot of stuff was deliberately "leaked" through double agents in order to disinform, intimidate, demoralize and disrupt the Soviets' military.

This is called psychological warfare.

That was what the Hanson spy scandal case was all about.

For his role as  CIA informant to the Russians regarding the key elements of the U.S. Governments' spy networks, he compromised complete departments of the CIA and others, which included his getting key Russian Soviet double-agents we were using recalled to Moscow where they were summarily executed, he now sits in a cell for solitary confinement for the rest of his life, allowing to see someone only once a year.

He nearly got the death penality for High Treason.

Tom T

Rudi35 wrote:

Sorry about doing this, but as some people are Rivet Nazis I'm the same with movie lines :)

I saw one of these Genies at the Bong Museum in Superior, WI.  It was pretty frightening to imagine a pilot being asked to use one.  

BTW speaking of Strangelove bombs does anyone know the closest approximation to the Hbomb Kong rides down?  Am working on model of Leper Colony and wanted to include the two bombs. Would any existing model bomb be a decent starting point for a scratchbuild for them?  Thanks!

A couple of notes: My uncle transitioned from the F-86 to the F-89 at Oxnard CA (now a civilian airport) and was sent up to the Arctic Circle. The standing orders were to bring down the Soviet Union aircraft at all cost. If your weapons did not bring an aircraft down then you were to ram it. He was reassigned to SAC and flew B-52s and the "FailSafe" mission.  B-52s would circle the Arctic for 72 hours and wait for the orders. His last combat missions would be in a B-52 over North Vietnam.

Because these "Fail Safe" aircraft were armed with "the bomb" they would be met by APES (air police) as soon as they parked the aircraft. NO ONE was allowed to reenter the aircraft once the crew exited the aircraft. The APES had orders to shoot to kill if any lone crew member tried to reenter the aircraft. This was serious stuff. If I recall correctly these flights were flown out of Minot ND, Omaha NB, and NY (do not recall the base). The Viet Nam missions were flown out of Gaum IIRC. Feel free to add to this or make corrections.

When he returned from NAM a routine medical exam discovered a heart murmur and he spent his last 4 years, of 35 years, flying a desk. He flew B-17s in the Pacific, C-54 in the Berlin airlift, F-86s in Korea, the F-89 and B-52 in the "Cold War" , and finally the B-52 over North Viet Nam. He had an assignment training Vietnamese pilots at Chanute Field in IL. in 1959. I visited him there in 1959 and had no idea what or where Viet Nam was. That would change. They did their "jet" training in T-33s.

The last thing I read is that the B-52s are scheduled to soldier on until 2044. Amazing airplane and amazing crews!

Some more trivia

Slim Pikkens was one of my favorite actors and he was a REAL cowboy!!!

My cousin when he was in his medical residency at USC in California one of the first patients in his neurology residency was Slim Pickens himself!! Unfortunately the brain tumor Slim had couldn't be totally controlled and he relapsed and succombed to the disease.

The cowboy hat he wore in Dr Strangelove was the hat he wore in many of his films whee he played a cowboy. He wore it in Blazing Saddles!!

The AIR-2 was on a few aircraft: F-89, F-101, and F-106. It must have been near suicidal to fire one of those rockets. The wiki says the AIR-2 had the W25 1.5 kiloton atomic bomb. That's one massive warhead for an air to air weapon. Canadian Forces used the AIR-2 also. 

I wonder if they could ever re-make a movie this well?

Tom T

The most humorous part to me was when Kennan Wynn (who played an officer in the contingent that stormed that af base) told the Brit Col (played by Peter sellers) that he thought he (the Brit Col) was a pervert.  When the Col. wanted to call to relay the recall codes to the war room, he ased permission of Wynn to make the call from a phone booth. Wynn said  something like "Ok, but don't you committ any perversions."

What about when Col. Mandrake(Sellers) says "Shoot the machine!", and Wynn says "OK, but your going to answer to the Coca Cola company about this"?

By the way, I believe Wynn actually said "preverts". not "perverts" LOL! 

Tom T 

rangerj

  The Viet Nam missions were flown out of Gaum IIRC. Feel free to add to this or make corrections.

 

B-52 missions during Vietnam were flown mostly out of Andersen AFB on Guam, and also out of U-Taphao in Thailand.

When I was in the 5th F.I.S. our aircraft had the Genie and every so often they had to have a practice upload with the real things.  One of our ships, 002 (Balls2), the second in command, had actually been one of the few 106s that fired a live rocket.

They guys said that if they actually had to use one, the secone it got ahead of the aircraft they would go into a 180 degree turn and hit max power to get as far away as possible before the proximity fuse set it off. When we picked up the F-15A/B most were pretty happy to be rid of their nuc commitment.

Nucs aren't fun, I have been wqithin a few feet of live weapons several times as part of my job as well as being close to fully armed aircraft.  I remember seeing some on display at the A.F. Museum back in  1970.  They may have been mock ups or not but either way, they just had a feeling about them.

I emember when the bomb shelter salesman came to the house in the early 60s.  My Father turned him down, asking him what would be left.  We lived only a few miles from Picatimmy Arsenel, a primary target.

And even stranger was the theory that a Genie could disrupt an attacking Soviet bomber formation, ostensibly using initially the F-84 Thunderstreak, and like you said, lob the bomb into the enemy formation(and why would they be flying a "formation" in the first place????) and then make a quick gettaway from the blast.

The problematic results defy the human mind:

1. Does this actually take down a rugged aircraft like the Bear Bomber?
2. Assuming it messes up the electronics, why should that stop any bomber not taken down, with a pilot as determoned as Major Kong who, not being "Instrument-Dependent" could fly without, using "dead-reconing", basic map navagation, and landmarks from harming any U.S. targets?
3. What was to keep the radioactive material cloud from an atmospherical Genie blast from not coming back and falling on and polluting the U.S. soil, water, etc.?

Arn't we glad those days are gone?

Tom T

As crazy as the Cold War was in theory, in practice it produced a certain equilibrium and stability in geo politics. Yes there was the possibility of total annihilation and mutual assured destruction, but because of that, there was (for the most part) a more measured approach to military action. Not 15+ years of active combat operations in one place. You have folks today who enlisted after 9/11 who have done repeated combat operations and deployments since then. Nearly a full 20 year career with no end in sight. That is every bit as crazy as MAD.

Each side had their areas and spheres of influence to deal with in the Cold War. And the opposite side usually did little more than diplomatic lip service or minor covert actions in the other sides areas.

Ah, the good old days... 

stik-  map looks the same today......

Mentioned before was Bedford Incident....great movie and the ending from the old Uboat commander was perfect.

While not a nuc movie, another great one and another of my favorites is "The Enemy Below" with Robert Mitchum and Kurt Jurgens.

The more things change, the more they stay the same... 

Great cinema about the Cold War: The Bedford Incident and Fail Safe.

Those were the days when the "Bad Guys" actually claimed a recognized UN participant country. Now we have immature fools "without borders", or not claiming to belong to anything but anachary, with no tangible national or recognized politically recognized or socially recognized goal, except martyrdom/suicide.

Only self-destruction as they are indoctrinated as Pre-K kids. I guess they're  a form of "Self-Inflicted-Population-Control" to keep their idealogs from owning up to their unwanted children. 

The other day, I talked to one of the guys with a minortive, but major scale modelling company. Well, I do not think these guys would want me to post here what he told me as a 50+years old re-enacted Army Reserve "Advisor".

You see, a while back I literally posted what a WW2 P-47 driver actually said after a typical combat mission run to the Company Shrink in a color documentary movie that I have on file.

It was deleted, but the fact is, things were actually not better then, then now for the "man-in-the-middle".

Maybe I should try to put his quote in my signiture stuff?

Tom T 

Yes. Even the terrorists were state sponsored... it was an interesting time...

What makes us believe they are not now, only under a theocratic idealogism that is not restricted to conventional established borders that the simple paid map-makers cannot define?

It looks to me at this time that we strongly resemble the early 20th Centuary Czarist Russian Empire's dillema-radical change vs. complacent status-quo.

Oh well....................

Tom T

That is true. A few theocratic regimes are sponsoring certain groups. Others still swear allegiance to ideologies that are no longer in vogue except in a few isolated nations...

Try again,

Oh well

Tom T