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1/48 Airfix P-40B AVG 1st Pursuit Squadron "Robert Neale" (FINISHED)

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  • Member since
    February 2012
  • From: Olmsted Township, Ohio
1/48 Airfix P-40B AVG 1st Pursuit Squadron "Robert Neale" (FINISHED)
Posted by lawdog114 on Saturday, April 1, 2017 2:05 AM

Before I jump into the next big scale Corsair, I figure I'd knock out a few quick builds (famous last words).  The new Airfix P-40 is is one I've been itching to do for quite some time and I can no longer wait (heck I bought 4 of them).  I'm going with Robert Neale's 1st Pursuit Squadron mount with the AVG.  He was the leading AVG ace with 13 kills while with them.  Other than some belts, guns and perhaps some wheels (depending what the kit's examples look like), I'll be going out of the box.

Neale's "White 7"

  

I started with the pit.  Wow....what a dandy out of the box.  They even give you placard decals. Airfix gives you two seats, a rounded and square backed version.  My research revealed that AVG planes usually had square backs with lap belts only.  I followed suit.  I added some small styrene squares at the top per pic reference.  I also read that AVG Hawks were originally destined for England and were painted accordingly, to include the interior.  I used X-5 Flat Green, XF-21 Sky and XF-65 Field Grey to simulate RAF cockpit grey-green.  The instrument panel was a decal and it worked great.  

    

I painted the chin intake/radiator flat black because I suspect they won't be seen. I rarely waste time and energy painting things that can't be seen.  Life's too short...paint is too expensive.  These were glued in place on the starboard side, as was the cockpit. I also added the nose cowl panels at this point so I won't have to deal with them later.  I'm not sure why Airfix chose to make these separate pieces, but fortunately they fit fairly well. Here I have test fitted the fuselage.  I'm pleased so far.      

P-40 Gurus, real quick, the scalloped area behind the pit should be camoflage color correct? Thanks in advance for the input.  

 

 

 

 

 

       

 "Can you fly this plane and land it?...Surely you can't be serious....I am serious, and don't call me Shirley"

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Saturday, April 1, 2017 2:43 AM

Another nice start, and good to see more Airfix being built.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    February 2012
  • From: Olmsted Township, Ohio
Posted by lawdog114 on Saturday, April 1, 2017 3:00 AM
Thanks Bish...indeed they are releasing some great stuff. I just picked up their new Stuka B-1. It looks fantastic too...

 "Can you fly this plane and land it?...Surely you can't be serious....I am serious, and don't call me Shirley"

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Saturday, April 1, 2017 3:04 AM

I got the 72nd B-1 last year, great looking kit and i am waiting out on the B-2/R-2. It used to be i would not touch them, now i look forward to every new release.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Naples, FL
Posted by tempestjohnny on Saturday, April 1, 2017 5:20 AM
Two in one go. Going to be some serious sensory overload. Yes as to the color behind cockpit. Exterior color

 

  • Member since
    January 2015
  • From: Tumwater, WA.
Posted by M. Brindos on Saturday, April 1, 2017 9:28 AM

That pit is nice to put together, isn't it? The IP decal fit like perfection and has beautiful detail. The inclusion of the pilot in my build meant a lot of the pit can't be seen, but that IP shines through, fortunately lol.

I understand your choice with the radiators, I gave mine a little effort, but you really have to look deep to see them. I'm glad they were added to the kit and I like knowing they're there, but they are difficult to see from more then head on.

Ive made notes in my build log of the next few trouble spots once the wings are on. None of them are very troublesome. Just a little putty and you're good to go.  :)

I've got mine on hold so I'm quite interested to see how yours will turn out.

- Mike Brindos "Lost Boy"

  • Member since
    March 2015
  • From: Streetsboro, Ohio
Posted by Toshi on Saturday, April 1, 2017 9:43 AM

That pit looks fantastic.  I can't believe it's OOB!

Toshi

On The Bench: Revell 1/48 B-25 Mitchell

 

Married to the most caring, loving, understanding, and beautiful wife in the world.  Mrs. Toshi

 

 

  • Member since
    January 2015
  • From: Tumwater, WA.
Posted by M. Brindos on Saturday, April 1, 2017 10:20 AM

Have you built one of the new Airfix kits yet Toshi? They have made serious strides with new technologies to be top competitors for our hard earned monies.

You really would like them.  :)

- Mike Brindos "Lost Boy"

  • Member since
    June 2014
Posted by BrandonK on Saturday, April 1, 2017 10:41 AM

Awesome sauce!!

BK

On the bench:

A lot !! And I mean A LOT!!

2024 Kits on deck / in process / completed   

                         14 / 5 / 2  

                              Tongue Tied

  • Member since
    June 2014
Posted by BrandonK on Saturday, April 1, 2017 10:45 AM

 

With regard to the scallops; I've been researching my P-40s for some time now and I have a source that states they were painted both ways with no rules stating that they had to be one way or another. So, some were interior cockpit color while others were exterior colors. You can't really tell in BW photos and the color ones that you can find are usually of restored AC. So it's basically builder's choice. I will have one with cockpit color and one with camo color. I prefer the look of the camo myself. I'm still looking for the source I found that info. As soon as I do I'll post it up.

BK

Edit: Here is the color source.

 http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2004/02/stuff_eng_interior_colours_us_part2.htm

And another source with some good pics.  

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/1999/09/stuff_eng_p40.htm

 

On the bench:

A lot !! And I mean A LOT!!

2024 Kits on deck / in process / completed   

                         14 / 5 / 2  

                              Tongue Tied

  • Member since
    January 2015
  • From: Tumwater, WA.
Posted by M. Brindos on Saturday, April 1, 2017 11:18 AM

Interesting. So all models from the D onward could have been either pit color or camo, but early models such as the B and C were most likely (but not exclusively) pit color?

That's got me thinking... 

- Mike Brindos "Lost Boy"

  • Member since
    June 2014
Posted by BrandonK on Saturday, April 1, 2017 1:45 PM

M. Brindos

Interesting. So all models from the D onward could have been either pit color or camo, but early models such as the B and C were most likely (but not exclusively) pit color?

That's got me thinking... 

 

That's how I read it. Sounds like they painted them according to how easy it was to access that area to change the color. And that most likely they mostly came out of the factory with pit color and were changed later if it was easy.

BK

On the bench:

A lot !! And I mean A LOT!!

2024 Kits on deck / in process / completed   

                         14 / 5 / 2  

                              Tongue Tied

  • Member since
    December 2016
Posted by Richard Craig on Sunday, April 2, 2017 12:17 AM

Hi Mike ... I'm researching for a P-40B from the flying tigers and the pictures I've seen show the area to be painted to follow the camouflage colors... So even that early you can see both .

  • Member since
    January 2015
  • From: Tumwater, WA.
Posted by M. Brindos on Sunday, April 2, 2017 2:16 PM

I've been pondering this. Logically, I would think that the rear window panels would be painted whatever color the aircraft was originally ordered in.

If there were any field modifications to the factory paint scheme then that area would remain the original factory color.

I'm referring to B and C models, of course.

So far in the pictures I've seen of pre-war P-40's the area is O.D. 

I assume that the AVG aircraft, being ordered from the factory in Brittish camouflage, would likely be painted in camouflage behind the glass panels as well. Since the camo patterns were not field applied.

So I suppose it is up to us as the artists to research the subject, as per the norm, and determine how we choose to paint the subject.

I think it would safe to assume that not too many of these planes were left with the pit color behind the rear panels. But that's just my opinion based on my own understanding of the article provided.

I also like the camo being behind the rear panel and not pit color so I don't think I'll be painting that area pit color anymore.

- Mike Brindos "Lost Boy"

  • Member since
    June 2014
Posted by BrandonK on Sunday, April 2, 2017 3:15 PM

In my research for my -E I discovered that it was orginally painted OD over NG and shipped to China where it was given a British camo scheme on the upper surface and assigned to the AVG. Then later on when it was reassigned to the USAAF it was again repainted to darker browns and greens over NG. So, the thought that they all left the factory with OD in the cutouts is sound, but some planes were painted in the field to British Camo as there is a photo of the # 106 -E  AVG model undergoing a color change in its camo in the field.

BK

On the bench:

A lot !! And I mean A LOT!!

2024 Kits on deck / in process / completed   

                         14 / 5 / 2  

                              Tongue Tied

  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: Chapin, South Carolina
Posted by Shipwreck on Sunday, April 2, 2017 3:31 PM

lawdog114
  

P-40 Gurus, real quick, the scalloped area behind the pit should be camoflage color correct? Thanks in advance for the input. 

I have never seen anything but camo in this area, except bare medel P-40s.

On the Bench:

Revell 1/96 USS Constitution - rigging

Kinetic 1/48 YF-104A 5-2957

Trumpeter 1/350 USS Hornet CV-8

Revell 1/48 B-1B Lancer Prep & Reasearch

 

 

  • Member since
    February 2012
  • From: Olmsted Township, Ohio
Posted by lawdog114 on Sunday, April 2, 2017 6:25 PM

Thanks for the input and compliments guys.  Great discussion.  Here's what I found regarding pics of the area.  It should answer some questions.  

These are camo colored..

Then theres this one......interior color.

I guess it could be either.   

 

 "Can you fly this plane and land it?...Surely you can't be serious....I am serious, and don't call me Shirley"

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    January 2015
  • From: Tumwater, WA.
Posted by M. Brindos on Sunday, April 2, 2017 6:35 PM

I have to agree with you. The pictures certainly suggest that it could be either.

- Mike Brindos "Lost Boy"

GAF
  • Member since
    June 2012
  • From: Anniston, AL
Posted by GAF on Sunday, April 2, 2017 9:47 PM

Great start, Lawdog.  She'll be another stellar addition to your collection.

I have just finished reading Charles R. Bond, Jr.'s "A Flying Tiger's Diary" which gives a good account of the day to day happenings of the AVG.  For reference, the tiger emblems from Walt Disney did not show up until after March 13. Just a bit of trivia.

Gary

  • Member since
    February 2012
  • From: Olmsted Township, Ohio
Posted by lawdog114 on Monday, April 3, 2017 2:01 AM

M. Brindos

I have to agree with you. The pictures certainly suggest that it could be either.

 

Indeed Mike.  Maybe I can find a pic of white 7 to see which.  Thanks for following a fellow P-40 fanatic. 

 "Can you fly this plane and land it?...Surely you can't be serious....I am serious, and don't call me Shirley"

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    February 2012
  • From: Olmsted Township, Ohio
Posted by lawdog114 on Monday, April 3, 2017 2:07 AM

Thanks Gary.  I might have to check that book out. I've seen Bond's markings somewhere but I can't remember where.  I just finished watching this.  I loved this series...good stuff...

 

  

 "Can you fly this plane and land it?...Surely you can't be serious....I am serious, and don't call me Shirley"

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: North Pole, Alaska
Posted by richs26 on Monday, April 3, 2017 3:05 AM

Brandon, is #106 the one you are doing as part of your P-40 pair?  

WIP:  Monogram 1/72 B-26 (Snaptite) as 73rd BS B-26, 40-1408, torpedo bomber attempt on Ryujo

Monogram 1/72 B-26 (Snaptite) as 22nd BG B-26, 7-Mile Drome, New Guinea

Minicraft 1/72 B-24D as LB-30, AL-613, "Tough Boy", 28th Composite Group

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Monday, April 3, 2017 6:30 AM

M. Brindos

Have you built one of the new Airfix kits yet Toshi? They have made serious strides with new technologies to be top competitors for our hard earned monies.

You really would like them.  :)

 

I have not built any yet, but i have a few of their new 72nd ones. And from what i have seen, i will second that.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

GAF
  • Member since
    June 2012
  • From: Anniston, AL
Posted by GAF on Monday, April 3, 2017 9:44 AM

lawdog114

Thanks Gary.  I might have to check that book out. I've seen Bond's markings somewhere but I can't remember where.  I just finished watching this.  I loved this series...good stuff. 

That was a great series, and I heartily recommend the book. Bond acted as the groups "operations officer" (so to speak) so his diary contains a lot of incidental information.  Bond flew number "5", which was destroyed in a Japanese strafing attack on April 10th (although he says in his diary that it should be repaired in a day or two).

  • Member since
    June 2014
Posted by BrandonK on Monday, April 3, 2017 9:54 AM

richs26

Brandon, is #106 the one you are doing as part of your P-40 pair?  

 

No, I'm doing #104. I was just using 106 photo as an example of field applied camo change.

BK

On the bench:

A lot !! And I mean A LOT!!

2024 Kits on deck / in process / completed   

                         14 / 5 / 2  

                              Tongue Tied

  • Member since
    February 2012
  • From: Olmsted Township, Ohio
Posted by lawdog114 on Tuesday, April 11, 2017 2:26 AM

I'm back in the saddle with this turkey.  Maybe it's me, but this thing has been laughing at me a little.  I initially thought the nose inserts fit well.  I was wrong and had to sand flush, scribe and re-rivet them both. Perhaps it was operator error somehow, or maybe me being OCD.  The wing to fuselage joint was sort of lousy too.  Sand, scribe, repeat as needed, and its a curved line to complicate things.  I'm sort of scratching my head with the separate wing root fillets.  Alot can go wrong here and almost did.  The landing gear "knuckles" and nearby wingroot area (below) didnt fit well and needed putty.  Again, some of this may have been my doing but alot of it is certainly stupid design.

  

The prop two piece hub is somewhat dumb, so I grabbed a new ultracast replacement.  Perhaps this is why Ultracast made a new one?  Time to check seams.  I also drilled out the nose fifties (the wings will get Quickboost replacements as the kit's are atrocious).  

Not bad.  A few areas needed touched up.  Overall? Wow...it does look like a Hawk 81 to me.  I'm ready for paint.

I sprayed the white fuse band for the 1st Pursuit Squadron and taped it off.  AVG bound Tomahawks were done in American equivalent to the RAF colors of Dark Earth and Dark Green over....well.....some say the underside should be grey, others say sky.  I came up with my own mix of XF-19 Sky Grey and XF-2 Flat White.  I lightened the fabric control surfaces by adding more XF-2.  I then decided to mix some panel fading with streaking to experiment. I then went back with straight XF-19 and dusted it on, a reverse basing if you will.  After a postshading I was happy with the results.  I'll probably dirty it up more later.  

  Almost time for the camo....   

 "Can you fly this plane and land it?...Surely you can't be serious....I am serious, and don't call me Shirley"

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    January 2015
  • From: Tumwater, WA.
Posted by M. Brindos on Tuesday, April 11, 2017 4:01 AM

I had a little trouble in all of those areas you mention, but not as much. Biggest problem area for me was the gear knuckles. That's where I had to putty and rescribe.

Still a lot less work than the Monovell.

I love the paint this far. I'm probably going to try and copy that on mine. :)

- Mike Brindos "Lost Boy"

  • Member since
    November 2016
  • From: Maryland
Posted by iampiper13 on Tuesday, April 11, 2017 8:24 AM

Looks great! I'm watching as I'll be doing this kit soon'ish

  • Member since
    May 2008
  • From: Ypsilanti, MI
Posted by MIflyer on Thursday, April 13, 2017 12:11 PM

I'm at the sand, fill, rinse and repeat stage with mine. Those knuckles at the front of the landing gear... ugh. You definitely have me considering the Ultracast prop for mine now.

Your paint work is gorgeous so far. Keep it up!

Kevin Johnson    Ypsilanti, Michigan USA

On the bench: 1/72 Fujimi Ki-36 J-BAAR

  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Thursday, April 13, 2017 12:28 PM

Joe, 

Following your build as is my usual want. Your works in progress always seem to be useful to me in addition to watching your masterly finishing techniques. 

Today I noticed (undoubtedly temporarily) that when I clicked on your pictures of the office Photobucket was down. I have left some images on that site simply because I'm too lazy to upload everything I have there to Flickr which, IMHO, is much more reliable and hasn't, so far, given me any of the headaches I've experienced with Photobucket.  Just a small rant about PB and its poor user experience from me. 

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

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