gunpowder stains

Thanks. That's a contemporary image of a restored bird, no?

Did those marks get on the wing from firing the guns or from a restorer's airbrush?

-J

Not sure, but it looks good.

You can occasionally see fairy subtle cordite streaks in photos of WW2 aircraft returning from combat---usually where gun muzzles are fully enclosed in wings or cowlings, like the 'short' outboard gun on P-47 wings, or against the red-doped patches on Spitfires---but most modelers seem to put them on as though they were full-length exhaust streaks. Ground crews routinely kept such things well in check, since such streaks were chemically corrosive as well as suggestive of inept maintenance.

All that being said...I'll still occasionally add them (in subtle fashion), more for 'art' than for accuracy. It's sort of like movie special effects: it may help 'sell' the illusion, whether it's strictly accurate or not. (That's the 'small print' on your artistic license.)

 It happens...

Korea again... this time a B-26

That's an interesting photo. The stains directly behind the guns are not very dark, but the stains under the wing are really dark. Also, look at the oil/exhaust stains at the engine cowling. Nice picture. The ground crew looks really busy. No too much free time to clean off the stains.

Yes, I noticed that the gun smoke staining from the underwing ports for brass and links are for more pronounced than those near the barrels. 

Here is another Korean War blast muzzle staining with some finger art work after a kill...

Maybe its to do with the exit velocity if the gas at the muzzle being much higher than that of the cartridge exit holes where they basically just fall out and have more time to "stain"

Theuns

Yes, and the spent casings will still have some gas in them as they are dropping out, as well as gasses being forced back down the barrel and out the breech...

How about this obviously very active A-10... ?

Another stain you see frequently on big birds are oil stains, especially with big radials.  Radial engines are notorious for pumping out a lot of oil.  Also, hydraulic stains around LG and flaps.  I haven't been around that many birds actually flying in combat, but I do see the exhaust, oil and hydraulic fluid on lots of birds.

Thanks guys. 

Something I think is kind of interesting from those shots is that the residue is more diffused than generally depicted. 

-J

I reload my ammo (the reall stuff!) and some powders burn much more "dirty" than others. That could account for some of the differences in powder stains. 

Don Stauffer

Another stain you see frequently on big birds are oil stains, especially with big radials.  Radial engines are notorious for pumping out a lot of oil.  Also, hydraulic stains around LG and flaps.  I haven't been around that many birds actually flying in combat, but I do see the exhaust, oil and hydraulic fluid on lots of birds.

 

Because like all radials it had a dry sump, there was a 27 gallon oil tank mounted to the Quick Engine Change frame.

The oil loss rate was about one gallon per hour for a newly rebuilt engine, higher as the hours added up.

There was also a larger oil tank in the hold, from which the FE could pump oil to replentish the tank on each engine. And he might have another barrel of 50 weight next to it.

Here is an F6F after repeated sorties, no time for maintenance. I believe the powder used with the older birds burned a lot more. 

We've provided a demonstration again of the advice, "Check photographic resources".

the Baron

We've provided a demonstration again of the advice, "Check photographic resources".

 

With the world at your fingertips, and more being added everyday, there is no reason no to do so. The only real trick is knowing where to look.

Yeah, I like to look for as many as I can find, online and in my reference library.  I have a similar situation with uniform details for figures.

No

templar1099

---

Here is an F6F after repeated sorties, no time for maintenance. I believe the powder used with the older birds burned a lot more. 

 

That’s how it works.

If you are using Google Chrome there is a free extention called ghostery that allows you to stop websites from spying on you.

JohnnyK

Now I am really freaked out. Yesturday I was looking on line at a company called Multi-flow. They make filter systems for septic systems. Today I clicked on the above F6F  photo and I was directed to Photobucket. Guess what happened?? Up popped an ad for Multi-flow! I do not like being spyed upon.

It's called 'behavioral retargeting.' 

When you visit a site, they drop a cookie (a small file) for an ad network in your browser (you can turn this off, though some sites won't work right without cookies), and then when you go to another site in that network, it's sniffs for the cookie and tries to show you content related to that cookie. It's meant to give more ad impressions to people who are more likely to be interested in that message. Photobucket is just a spam hole, so it's not surprising that they do it.

You can clear your cookies, either all of them, or selectively. Search for 'delete cookies' and your browser in your favorite search engine (who is also following you around). 

Good luck!

-J

Johnny1000

 

 

JohnnyK

Now I am really freaked out. Yesturday I was looking on line at a company called Multi-flow. They make filter systems for septic systems. Today I clicked on the above F6F  photo and I was directed to Photobucket. Guess what happened?? Up popped an ad for Multi-flow! I do not like being spyed upon.

 

 

 

It's called 'behavioral retargeting.' 

When you visit a site, they drop a cookie (a small file) for an ad network in your browser (you can turn this off, though some sites won't work right without cookies), and then when you go to another site in that network, it's sniffs for the cookie and tries to show you content related to that cookie. It's meant to give more ad impressions to people who are more likely to be interested in that message. Photobucket is just a spam hole, so it's not surprising that they do it.

You can clear your cookies, either all of them, or selectively. Search for 'delete cookies' and your browser in your favorite search engine (who is also following you around). 

Good luck!

-J

 

J

I never noticed any on F-4s in SEA, but they very rarely had an opportunity to fire them. To the best of my recollection all the air to air kills were with missiles.

I notice on my real guns the staining is very diffused and more of a grayish color than black. So,on my models I keep it subtle and will apply a little bit of gray weathering powder, then stream it back fairly tightly to take into account the high speed airflow. 

Behavioral targeting is meant to expose you to more relevant ads.  Its not a bad thing really.  No one wants to know who you are, thats a fact.  Its bad ***.  How you behave is where the money is.  Its not all evil.  If you have to be exposed to ads, would you rather they be model related or vacuum cleaner related?  Most organizations want to target your behavior. 

Liegghio

I never noticed any on F-4s in SEA, but they very rarely had an opportunity to fire them. To the best of my recollection all the air to air kills were with missiles.

The F-4’s likely did not fly CAS or other missions where they got to fire the guns regularly. Nor did the F-105. Now the F-100 was tasked with CAS regularly and...

Liegghio

I notice on my real guns the staining is very diffused and more of a grayish color than black. So,on my models I keep it subtle and will apply a little bit of gray weathering powder, then stream it back fairly tightly to take into account the high speed airflow. 

JohnnyK

...The stains directly behind the guns are not very dark, but the stains under the wing are really dark. Also, look at the oil/exhaust stains at the engine cowling...

 

I'd guess the ones on the jet (Saber?) are lighter since they would be in direct high speed air flow down the fuselage, and the ones under the wing are darker since that's a high pressure area.  Above the wing is a low pressure area which causes the higher pressure to push up on the wing (lift).

The cordite would be driven up against the wing's undersurface.

stikpusher

Yes, and the spent casings will still have some gas in them as they are dropping out, as well as gasses being forced back down the barrel and out the breech...

How about this obviously very active A-10... ?

 

Well, the GAU-8/A that airframe is built around spits out between 2100 (low setting) and 4200 (high setting) rounds of 30MM per minute.  Those are pretty heavy projectiles and need a lot of burned gasses to propel them out the barrel.