B-17 G 1:48 scale, 351st Bomb Group, 510th Squadron, AC# 43-37862, Fearless Fosdick

Now to continue.

I had to shorten the star and bar between the starboard waist gun and door. It was too long otherwise. First I figured out where the center would be, then I applied the decal and with a very sharp knife, cut a vertical line through the middle of the bars both sides. Then I took those ends and slid them inward so that the edges would line up against the door and waist gun position.

The Decals from the kit and extra general decal sheet worked just fine. My troubles came with the decals I had to make. There is a small G on the lower part of the vertical tail near the rudder. At first I couldn't get it to print properly. Always seemed too light. Then I figured out I had to print for High Gloss paper and it printed correctly. Next I needed something to fix the ink on the decal sheet. Hobby shops will sell you the decal sheets for your printer but not something to fix what you printed to the sheet. I ended up using hair spray first. After it dried, I put a coat or two of sprayed on acrylic floor polish. This seemed to work but it still caused some trouble. It all worked in the end but I still need to find a better way.

The name of the plane, "Fearless Fosdick", was printed using 11pt letter size. After looking at aircraft in the same unit that was active at the same time, I picked a font that looked the same as the other planes. As I mentioned earlier, they didn't have an artist but they did have either a sign painter or a calligrapher. All evidence points to the plane having only the name, no art. That made things easier at least for me.

Meanwhile, I built up and fitted the top turret.

I cut off the plastic ammo chutes and added the photo etch ones. I also added photo etched barrels. I touched up painted them later.

The tail gunners position. This was before I added the grass.

Please bear with me. I am not as good as most when it comes to the outside of the plane. I tried very hard to get the paint to work right. Cleaned the surfaces to remove all oil, wore gloves to keep finger prints off, Gave lots of time for paint to dry between coats. Still had problems. Mostly with the dissimilar plastics between the two halves. One was harder than the other. I was able to correct most of them later on but I still don't like how it came out.

Thanks all for your kind words about my work.

Here I have the name added and was attaching the longwave antenna. Painted on the four blue lights on the tail, the red and green for the respective wings, and the ident lights on the bottom. I also added brake lines.

At this point I started using acrylic washes to add contrast to all those nooks and crannies. This helped a lot.

When the base was done, I figured out where I wanted the plane to sit then added pins the each of the wheels made from a small paper clip.

Hopefully not too bad.

Thank you all for your support and encouragement.

The plane was delivered to the daughter of the pilot of this plane and modeled pilot and plane are reunited. I had to impress upon them that the plane is fragile. They are currently looking for someone to make a display case for the plane. Future plans are for the plane to be donated and sent to the 351st Bomb group organization... and yes, tears where shed as daughters finally got to see what her dad's plane looked like.

So now I will close this thread with a final photograph from the one direction that I had not included. Again, thanks for being patient with me.

This base I made for the plane out of plywood, terrain cotton type fiber with adhesive, dark wood stain, Jute, ground chalk powder, and model rail road grass.
The sequence took some time with minor complications. Biggest problem was the board wanted to keep warping. A heavy bag of cat little flattened that pup out.

Polebrook had some grassy areas. It was once a fighter base before it was handed over to the American Bomber command. Most airfields, as I understand it, had concrete circles that the bombers parked on but there were places where the bombers sat on grass. So I figured why not.
More to follow.

The plane is now completed.  Pictures to follow shortly.

So here is what I have done up till now.

I've added the photo etch barrels for the chin mount guns. The mount was a little off center but once it was attached, it brought the whole inner part into alignment and fit nicely. I then attached the forward glass nose cone.

Then I fitted the engines on, minus the propellers, so that the OD green anti-glare could be painted on. I also worked out and did the initial painting on the tail stripe. Unfortunately, I forgot a basic rule. I should have painted a white stripe first before painting red. The white paint would make the red stand out in the proper shade. I went back and redid this properly later.

So far the paint job came out well.

With the anti-glare done I started adding decals.

before I finally glued on the engines and props, I painted the disc behind the engine black. This was for the black guide vanes that guide air around the cylinders for cooling. It came out quite well. Once all engines were attached, it was time to work on the tail section.

It was about this time that I realized something the directions didn't mention. See if you can see the problem.

So here is the problem. The first tail cone would go on with no troubles at all but the second tail cone won't. In order to attach the second tail cone, a good section of the rear of the plane would have to be removed in order for that cone to fit properly. What to do.

So I cut off the kit sight and sanded the ends smooth. Then sanded from the back of the cone to make it fit properly.

Once I was sure of the fit, I scratch built the sight according the pictures I have seen and checked the fit of the greenhouse in the back. I noticed the gaps and used sprue to fill them and paint over.

Here I have the corrected red stripe and repaired greenhouse fit.

Finally. I added some tail markings. This is where I have stopped for now.

Thanks for following.

Thats looking fabulus. Your doing a great job.Your attention to detail is fantastic.

Great progress!

Thanks for waiting guys, and thanks for all the great support and kind comments. As of last night, I am at a point of 3 down and locked. Now just a little information to show how I got there.

To help hold up the plane and free my hands, I fitted but didn't clue the right wing. Those locking lugs make it nice and easy. I tried to see how the fit would be for the clear part, not perfect but doable. I used the clear half to help me glue the center windows in and there were a few of them, at least four for the moment. I used the clear as a rest on one side so that I could glue the other side. Once the glue dried, I could remove the clear side and the window would remain in place. This actually worked out pretty well... except with the dome window. That pup popped out again as I was doing final attachment of the two halves. Not to worry though, I can still just pop it in due to its unusual shape. Just a little trickier.

when I sprayed the aluminum over the clear area, I wanted a little overlap of center so that I could fix any fit issues if needed.

Here you can see the dome window on the clear side as it was easier at the time to do it this way. I also attached a gun on the port side. Because of the tight quarters in the nose, I figured it was easier to attach the belt now then work it into the tight spot after the halves were cemented.

I didn't have a regular sight for the port waist gun so I made one. That window glue comes in handy. First I made a circle of approximate size and glued it in shape. Attached it to the gun and trimmed. Then using smaller wire and AC glue, I was able to get the cross parts attached. Finally fitted the completed assembly into the port waist gun position.

Had to use gravity to hold the window over the pilot but it also shows the stuff under the pilot area better.

Getting the sides to fit over the entire length was a pain. I had to trim behind the locking lugs on the clear side wing to get it to fit due to the goodies inside. Manufacturer clearly intended for the wings to be attached before the halves were joined. Still doing some test fitting in other areas but I did finally get the halves together without the total destruction of the plane in the process. Final note, after the wheels were fitted on, the ball turret sat exactly were it was suppose to.

More pictures later. Thanks for following.

This is simply just dripping with details. Pure eye candy!!! 

Glad to see some progress on this one bud.

I can't wait to see!

Well I've taken pictures but am still getting them sized right and in proper sequence.   I did get the halves together, but slowly so that it each part adheres properly.  Sorry for the picture delay.  Not long now.

Misplaced a top window, the one above the radio room.  Fortunately the kit comes with side windows that I don't need so with a few carefully placed cuts and lots of sanding, I have a new window.  In the forward section, the left machinegun is having trouble fitting where it goes.  Keeps getting interference from other objects around it.   So, I did some shortening of a couple of items and now it looks like it fits right.   The upper gun fits fine but getting the ammo belt to run properly is also a challenge.   Pictures to follow later.

I'm still trying to decide is I want a map on the table or not.   Maybe TP by the can?  No, most likely not.  Working through fit issues will be challenging enough.  I'm nervous about fitting the two sides together.  Clear with solid half might cause fogging and I don't want that.   Anyway the first thing I need to do is clean the contact points.

Nice to see you back at it.

Thanks, I try hard.   I know it has taken awhile but I wanted to be sure what I did each time along with a little research.  This weekend, I'm going to try to finish enough to close up the sides and start fitting widows.  Need to see how each fits before it becomes permanent.

The detail work you are doing is just amazing. Your attention to detail is also amazing.Its looking great. 

I have been busy but in my spare time I was able to get more done. I put together the photo etch items and built two more chairs for the forward area.

then I started installing each item working from back to front. The usual stuff oxygen regulators, heating units, machinegun, ammo cans and belt, and one of the seats onto the ring where the bombardier sits. Took awhile but it came out ok.

I've added the ammo belt once the back stuff was in along with the controls for the chin-mounted guns. I also decided to make a lamp for the desk. I added the bomb-sight, and other bombing controls.

Looking over photos, I figured I would go ahead and make one similar to the one I made for a Black Widow build several years ago.

I first stretched sprue, then cut the smaller end on side. Then I heated a needle and pushed it into the small end so that it got stuck in the plastic. The plastic was then cut at a point that looked close to what I wanted for the bell of the lamp. Sanding helped to improve the shape before I withdrew the needle and glued in a piece of copper wire.

Once I had the general shape, I drilled a small hole in the table where I wanted to lamp to be attached and cut a reasonable sized disc from aluminum foil. I punched a hole in the center of the foil and pushed the wire through it.

Next I glued the wire into the desk to what I figured was a good length and snipped off the excess. To give the mount form, I used white glue normally used for gluing clear window parts. I also added glue to areas where joints would be. Painted it black after all the glue dried.

Here is what it looks like now. I only have a few levers to glue in before I can finally start closing this up.

I hope it looks ok, thanks for following.

Glad to see your progress. Oh you're getting so close! Will be exciting to see the wings go on.

Hello guys, miss me? I've had a lot going on and sometimes I just get tired. I have basically finished the center waist gunner position. Had to do some touchups here and there as this has been going on three years. I have started working on the forward section. Once that area is done I can finally, at long last, close the plane up for outside detail and finish build. You know I have worked on nothing else for this time and I miss doing simpler stuff. I may need to do something simple to get me going on again. Thanks guys for your support through this. It helps me keep going to the end.

Thanks for following

It's been very busy lately. My wife being Russian doesn't help with what is going on. She still has family and friends there. Anyway, here is what I've been able to accomplish since last I posted. I did a lot of work on the different machineguns. Just a couple of touchups with paint here and there but basically they are finished. I also chose the tail gunner's windows and finished the tail gunner's position for the most part. Almost finished the waist gunner area as well. Now for the pictures...

I still have the photo etched barrels and gunner sites to add.

Thanks for following.

Looking fantastic . Cant wait to see it finished.

Lots of great work here! Love all the little stuff it really adds to your build. your thoughts on the metal toilet seat are hilarious   I'm hoping the varnish issue gets sorted cause the wings sure were looking good. Congrats on the promo btw!

I also wanted to tell you that I did a fit check with the wings on the fuselage and tires on the legs.  I was afraid the ball might be hanging too low but after attaching everything I could see that everything was as it should be height wise.

I've tried to keep busy with this model but I got clobbered with a honey do list and the passing of my brother-in-law. I also had a varnish failure when I tried to protect one of the wings. Not happy with that but hopefully I can keep moving now. So what have I done. First I wanted to get the wings done. Mostly just so that I can say I did something different.

The devices behind the engines look like turbochargers to me but I'm not sure. Anyway I got these painted along with the deicing boots on the main wings and horizontal stabilizers. The biggest problem I had was with the aluminum/chrome paint for the skin. I would get a decent paint job on it then something would screw it up in a couple places. I would get it repaired and something else would go wrong... aggravation in the extreme. Finally I got it set and thought I would spray a simple clear varnish to set it and the stuff I was using was too cold and you can imagine the rest. I sanded out the worst of it and am going to attempt it again once the weather warms up a bit.

I also made the wing landing lights.

These I made by punching out discs from the foil of wine bottles. My wife helped by emptying the bottles after I opened them. The discs I formed into shallow cones over the round end of a paint brush. To set Then, I drilled a small hole where I wanted to disc to sit, kind of like a center mark / place holder. A drop of CA glue in the hole and drop the disc in. Came out nice as you can see. I attached the outer covers and found that there was a large gap over the right light. I filled in the gaps by soaking a .020" x .020" bit of styrene rod in liquid cement which softened it enough to mold into the imperfect gaps and dry solidly. This came out well after a touch of the sanding sponge. As you can see, it came out ok. Not shown are all the vents around the engine for cooling air intakes. I drilled them all out and cleaned them up with a knife.

My next focus was on the ammo boxes, small air tanks, and fiddly stuff.

I also added wood to the navigators table top at the front of the aircraft.

The ammo belt runs were made easier by cutting a .010" sleeve to wrap the sides around and still leave room for the ammo. It also made it easier to straighten the legs out and paint.

Finally here are many of the fiddly bits I worked on. Some brass catchers, bottle holders, oxygen regulation systems, and various boxes of control items.

That can in the upper left is suppose to be a sky toilet, Bog can, or whatever funny name you might like to call it. I added wood to these as well, not just to flesh it out but seriously who would want to sit on a metal toilet cover at -30 degrees? I would think you backside would be frozen to it. Can you imagine, "Hi mom, I got a purple heart because my backside got stuck on the can during a mission and they had to pry me off." I also made and beefed up the tail gunner's seat, upper center above the ammo boxes.

Thanks for following.

Really looking great!  Any updates?

I really wanted to finish this by Veteran's day but as usual I got hit with a honey do list... Oh and I got promoted in my job which called for more of my time to learn my new position. Fortunately I did get more done so my time wasn't totally shot. I am pushing to finish this, just won't be when I wanted.

So to start. Once I had finished printing the inside of the ball turret, I assembled what I had and found that the mechanism between the guns was too low. I needed to move it upward. I attached some styrene blocks on top of the guns before I cut off the mechanism between them. The blocks marked my attachment points for the remodeled mechanism.

Then I used styrene to build up the mechanism to look more like what I could recognize in photos.

I also added the brass shoots that guide the empty shells after firing. This you can see just below the gun and ammo drum. Actually fit really nice after it was made.

I didn't go overboard on the interior, just on only what was clearly visible. I left out the wiring. Painted the ball turret inside and out then fit it all together along with the ring I printed for it. So far so good.

Next... the ball turret mount. I wanted to get this finished at the very least. Here I ran into an interesting problem. How to get the turret mechanism to look right and work around what the kit designers did. I didn't want to reinvent the wheel so I compromised. I changed the supports to allow what I had printed, then use the old support with some slight modifications.

I made some cross support that I could attach the old top part too. I wanted to make sure the cross parts were even so I inverted to the ball to check that it looked level; then cut up the attaching snap-in part so it could still spin. I painted the side of the clear fuselage to cover some of this part. I kept checking measurements to make sure it sat right when it was mounted in. This took some time to get right.

When I was sure of the fit, I painted it up. Now the cross piece was a glaring problem so after checking the pictures I made the round piece square with some styrene to resemble the box that sits just above the ball turret. This was painted black and you can see it below. I filed part of the cross piece thinner and painted it a bit to disguise the error.

Finally I added the exterior ammo cans and oxygen tank. All together it came out ok. I still have some hoses and wiring to attach but it is enough for now.

I also spray painted the wings. Well I hope to get more done in the next coming weeks. Now I'm trying for the end of the year.

As always, thanks for following.

At this point, I have printed all that I can for the ball turret. What I will do now is walk you through the process I go through when I am developing and printing a part. In this case the seat.

The first thing I do is research as much as possible the subject I want to make. I try to determine, to the best of my ability, the size of the part I need. This is not the actual size on the real thing but the size of what I will need that will work. In the case of the seat, I looked at several photos and tried to determine how wide and how high it is. I did this by measuring the door width on the model and what would be visible through the window. Then I started creating it in FreeCAD on the XY plain.

When all dimensional variables are solved, the drawing turns green as you can see above. From here I extrude the drawing giving it a third dimension.

I chose a surface on the now 3d seat to now create the back of the seat. The curve was made to match the circumference of the inside of the ball. The process for making a curved back part was to start with a curve then extrude alone a curved path instead of a straight one.

The drawing for this path is perpendicular to the surface I'm drawing away from and is curved the match, again, the inner circumference of the ball... on the YZ plain.

The result of the two drawings looks like this. Now with the drawing fully defined and extruded, its time to turn this file into an STL file.

For this part you can't just save the file as is. You have to export it into an STL file so that the slicing software can interpret it.

The object must be fully highlighted as seen about before it can be saved as an STL file. Now I open a slicer program and figure out how best to situate the object in order for it to print properly.

Since there is nothing really fancy about this drawing I decide to print it as you see above and proceed to slice the object into something the printer can recognize.

The printer has its own slicing software so I had to convert what I had to what my particular printer would recognize. I also wanted to add the trunnions at the same time. The total time to print is just over an hour.

This is what it looks like after its been sliced. The file is then plugged into the printer and printing starts. Below is how it came out after it was cleaned up and set in the sun for a few hours to finish curing.

A test fit of the trunnions found that they fit well enough. Snug but not too tight. I'm still able to rotate the ball on the trunnions without too much interference.

I found that the seat was a little large. Still I can just sand it down to what I need.

I printed extra items just incase I break one or two. The parts are a little flimsy, and dare I say fiddly.

A couple of quick notes. I mentioned earlier about adding a special oil (PTFE) onto the film in the vat before adding the resin. I found that this same oil added to the surface of the print face helps to remove parts once printing is completed. Only like a drop spread over the entire plate surface... just a hint of oil. The light exposed resin still sticks but it seems easier for me to remove the part.

The other note is to remember that making a part to scale isn't always a good idea. Very thin resin parts are brittle.

I will be scratch building other fiddly bits inside the ball but for all intents and purposes the ball interior and immediate exterior is completed. I will need to scratch build the rest of the support system.

My goal is to try to finish this plane by 11 November. Not sure if I'll make it but I will try.

Thanks for following.

Just drew up the trunnions.

Thanks for following.

Not enough time for details but a picture is worth a thousand words...

Finished the manual hand crank. I know its not perfect but it seems to look ok. Now for the trunnions.

As I continue to work with this FreeCad, I'm slowly improving and figuring out shortcuts. Last night I spent the evening working on the traverse mechanism. It's crude but with some refinements it might come out ok. What do you guys think?

I found that as long as an assembly is active, you can draw and buildup any flat surface in any plain.

Thanks for following.

The weekend brought challenges with this program. I tried to add a ridge along the inner edge as I had seen in photos of the ring. For some reason I haven't figured out, the drawing and the part would rotate 90 degrees from each other and I would have to either start over again or draw from a different angle. In the end I just drew from a different angle, extruded it then cut it to size. It came out ok. Of course someone well practiced with this program would have done much better but I like how it has come out so far.

Thanks for following.

Thanks for the tip although easier said than done since I don't have windows office on this laptop.

Spent the weekend trying to figure out how to add the supports. The program wouldn't let me do it in one shot so I had to create a new plane for each support before It came up with what I wanted. Now to cut off the lower part under the dome.

Thanks for following.

Sorry for the delay. This part took awhile to figure out.

The next part is adding the supports and gear mechanisms.

Thanks for following...

I did some work during the week on the turret ring. After a lot of measuring and using a contour gauge, I came up with some measurements for the ring. Then I studied some videos to figure out how to make it. Here is what I've been able to achieve thus far.

First I determined the bottom shape then extruded it for the first part of the ring.

Then created the center portion.

Finally added the top ring. Now currently working on the dome and gear part. Thanks for following.

Time to add some updates...

Assembled the landing gear, minus the brake lines and hydraulic lines, then assembled the wing halves together and sanded the rough spots. I still need to fill some voids. Once all the voids are filled and all blemishes fixed, I'll go ahead and do initial spray painting.

I decided not to go into too much detail in the landing gear bays because they will not be seen. This will be sitting on its wheels and not picked up and played with.

This will save me from some unnecessary work.

And now for something completely different...

I have finally gone through the process of creating and printing a part for the turret. My first problem was to figure out what to make and what to leave alone. Since only half the ball turret will be visible and only that part that sticks out from the bottom of the aircraft, I decided to leave the mechanism between the gun alone since it was already present and I didn't want to reinvent the wheel so to speak. So what I will make is the internal ammo drum, the ejection chutes from the guns to the bottom of the turret, the gunner's seat, and the support system holding the ball since what the model company made looks awful.

So I started with the ammo drum. FreeCad allows you to put the image of what you are drawing onto the work space so you can trace it if you want to. I tried this first but the drawing was not head on, it was at an angle. Still I had the basic shape.

Then I took lots of measurements to determine what would both fit on top of the guns and fit inside the space I was given inside the ball turret. Once I had this figured out I then added constrictions to each line and curve. Until the 2d drawing is 100% constricted, It will move and can not be made into a 3d model.

From there I gave the part a measured depth and added some depression features. It ended up looking like this... Granted it's not perfect but it was a major step forward.

Once the part was completely defined, I had to save it as an STL file. This is done by highlighting every surface and I mean every visible surface and saving it while all surfaces are highlighted. As an STL file, I then transferred it to Chitubox slicer program and sliced it.

Finally I brought it into the printer program and loaded it for printing. It came out real nice.

What was even better was the fit was perfect!

I've already started on the ring portion. More to update as I figure this stuff out but hopefully it won't take too long.

Thanks for following and if anyone wants a copy of the STL files I've created let me know.

Got a bit more done this weekend. First I finished the channels for the oil coolers. Then I added some screening for something to see further toward the back.

Then added a cover to the channels.

I then went to work on the engines, finishing up the ignition wires and fuel lines. I didn't want to get too complicated with them.

Thanks for following.

There's alot of great detail in this build of yours. Lookin' good.

Thank you everyone for your kind words.

I was able to accomplish a bit over the weekend. Just worked on the ignition harness or collar and the accompanying sparkplug wires.

First I trimmed the collar since it is not a single piece and attached to either side of the crank case.

Once I had both sides on, I took some very thin wire and bent them in half to a sharp angle.

To attach them, I swabbed the collar with insta-set for CA glue then dipped the folded end of my wires in glue and attached to the collar.

Thanks for following and for your well wishes. We are doing much better now... for the time being.

Your attention to details and your modeling skills are top notch!

Mike

So while I was out and recovering I did a little work on the plane.  First I cut out the rear door for the tail gunner.  Then I worked on intake vents for oil coolers in the wings.

Finally I started on the engines and props.  Here is a picture of what I'll try to accomplish.

I painted the engines and started working on the ingnition collar.  I needed to get the general circumference but I will cut them down to fit properly.  I know the collar is a little on the thick side.  I may try to find something smaller but if not I'll use what is at hand.

finished up this session by painting the props.  Hope you like.  Since this plane will be sitting on a shelf for show I don't see the need to deck out the land gear bay.  I'll leave it as originally designed since it will not be seen.

Thanks for following.

Hello all, just a quick update.  Wife is doing well now and daughter has been given a clean bill of health.  My turn, I had nose surgery and am recovering.  Funny how on the day I was to have my splints removed, the doctor was involved in an auto accident.  Like go figure.

Anyway, I did start up on modeling again only this time on a separate area to give the interior a break.  I'll post some pictures a little later this week.  Thanks for all the kind words and your prayers.  It is much appreciated.

PS...  yea sorry about that fire extinguisher, you know how hard it is to fill those things?  :)

Here's an LOL on you!

 Look at the picture of your very finely done Fire extinguisher! Where it's lying is a stain on the paper. With the item in that proximity it looks like it is spewing some contents! If you have no objections I send my prayers in the right direction for the Wife and Daughter! 

 This is indeed when life is hard! But, I see it hasn't totally ruined your creativity. Love the Horse too!

I've been in and out nightfighter, but I'm still with you. This is a case study in patience and perseverance. You're grabbing this bull by the horn with both hands. Great job across the board.

I'm sorry to hear about your troubles. I'll keep you in my prayers.  

Awesome,I enjoy every  update!

Sorry for the delay folks, I have had my plate full you might say. Wife had surgery, my daughter in the Navy was told she might have cancer but are not sure yet, and my part of Texas was subjected to a few days of snow and sub freezing temperatures ( global warming...  not. ). All things to keep me busy. Playing World of Tanks to pass the time during all this mess didn't help either.

Moving on. I also spent time researching STL files to practice printing more difficult subjects. This was to better understand Chitubox slicer software and to see if it is compatible with my printer.

Found a horse STL file so I downloaded it and ran it through Chitubox. Printed it, cleaned it up, and painted it with embellishments.

So there is a step by step process.

Now for the turret... Here is what I was able to find, taken from the service manual.

I still have a ways to go but I have moved a step closer.

Now for an update.  One of the things I've really considered was learning to create a 3d model, print it, and include it with this model.  I realize that this will not be easy but I will attempt it.  Toward that end I include this post as I attempt to model the inside of the Sperry Ball Turret.  I started by learning about different 3d software available for someone like me at little to no cost.  I came up with two, one called Blender, the other called FreeCad.

In my investigations with Blender, I have found that it is a great program but has more options than you can shake a stick at. I will learn it in time but it's a bit overkill for what I'm trying to do at the moment. Now I come to the free program called FreeCAD. This seems to be a free version of AutoCAD and is more used for mechanical type of drawings. That fits more in the area of what I'm trying to do at the moment. YouTube is great for tutorials. I found this one very helpful...

https://youtu.be/3eWlU2Ddl6I

FreeCAD seems to be just what I need to do the mechanical drawing of the inside of this ball turret. Now to get some key measurements of the space I want to fit this in. One of the parts from this kit is the pair of guns that are attached together for this assembly. I can use this as a means of a standard for the rest of the drawing.

First for my model references. These are photos I've gleaned from around the world wide web showing the interior of the ball.

As you can see there are a couple of differences between them but they are relatively the same design.

I could show both guns mounted or, like this last picture, show only one gun and what the seating arrangement looked like. I don't plan to show any crew. Any wiring would have to be scratch built.

Now for the important measurements I need to work with.

Using a caliper, the measurements I get to work with are these:

Inside the ball along the Z axis is .85" or 21.63mm
Inside along the X axis is .77" or 19.56mm
Inside along the Y axis is .47" or 11.94mm. This is from center plain to the front window.

Distance between gun openings is .46" or 11.61mm
Length of the gun receivers is .486" or 12.34mm
Width between gun receivers as originally modeled is .458" or 11.63mm
Height of gun receivers as originally modeled is .127" or 3.22mm

I've spent the last several days working with my printer. Mostly getting it set up properly with the latest firmware and getting the platen adjusted properly and zeroed. I also have learned a few tricks for longer FEP life and habits to form for producing good prints often.

To start with, here is what I'm working with.  I'm using the Anycubic Photon S

Technical Specifications:
● Printing Technology: LCD-based SLA 3D Printer
● Light-source : UV integrated light（wavelength 405nm）
● XY DPI : 47um (2560*1440)
● Y axis resolution : 1.25um
● Layer resolution : 25 ~ 100um
● Printing speed : 20mm/h
● Rated Power : 50W
● Printer size: 230mm*200mm*400mm
● Printing volume : 115mm *65mm *165mm (4.52″*2.56″*6.1″)
● Printing material : 405nm photosensitive resin
● Connectivity :USB Port
● Package Weight: 9.5kg

They have two types of resin, both are sensitive to 405nm. One is regular resin which has a nasty smell to it which is why you want to work in a well ventilated area. The other is plant based and the smell is not so strong... Of the first type there are other resins within that have different properties like clear or opaque in different colors as well as a different hardness.

In my studies I have developed rules of thumb to follow when using this printer.
1. Always shake well the resin you are about to use to ensure it is completely mixed. Apparently it settles when left on a shelf for any length of time.
2. Always store resin bottle in a cool dark area. This prolongs the use / shelf life of the resin because they do come with expiration dates.
3. Isopropyl Alcohol used for cleaning up must be 90 to 99% proof.
4. Its a good idea to wear protective glasses as well as a face mask, (same type we all have to wear now with the China Virus). You really don't want to get that resin in your eyes from any splashing that may occur.
5. Periodically relevel the print plate to better ensure a good print.
6. Check your UV lighted print screen before each print to ensure there are not any unlit areas.
7. Don't always print in the same place. It would wear out the FEP film on the bottom of the vat faster.
8. Put three drops of PTFE lubricant onto the FEP film and spread around with a very soft brush. It's ok if it beads, the protection is still there and this will also help increase the life of the FEP film.
9. Clean the resin vat between prints and keep it clean when not in use. Some people leave resin in the vat over night and while this in itself won't harm it, being lazy will eventually cause problems.
10. If you are going to use different kinds of resin, it would be a good idea to have more than one vat to prevent cross contamination.
11. Use a glass scraper to remove resin from the glass print screen surface. But be very careful about it.
12. Use trays to hold equipment to contamination.
13. If possible, put a slight bevel on mount surface of the print so that it would be easier to pop the print off the plate with done.
14. Use, if you can, micro fiber cleaning clothes to clean the FEP film. Cotton and paper will scratch the screen and cause problems later.

Last night I printed my first practice piece while following all my rules of thumb and the print came out perfectly the first time. I used my paint booth to help blow the fumes out and kept the room cool. The smell wasn't that bad when I did that.

I also learned that if I add supports to my STL file in the Chitubox slicer program and save it as an STL, I don't have to use the Photon program to do the same thing. Just save the altered STL file in the Photon as a PW file, while not changing anything, and the printer will work with it.

I also figured out that if I look at my 3d picture upside down and slowly go up with a piece of paper, I can figure out quicker where I need to add supports as nothing should float in free space.

Here are pictures of my first print.

I should mention that there is not direct line from the computer to the printer. Files are loaded on a thumb drive and plugged into the side as you see in the picture above.

I put the print into an ultrasonic cleaner filled with alcohol. Cleaned it really well.

Thanks for following.

By the way, here is a little insight into the engineering compartment / radio room machine gun. First the mount. 
I found this on "legendsintheirowntime.com" The rack the gun was mounted on was called the "Bell Machinegun Adapter"

From the website:
"Kept under cover by censorship until recently, the gun recoil damping device pictured here has been produced in large quantities by Bell Aircraft. It has been used as almost standard equipment on all types of bombers, both British and American.
Consisting of a lightweight cradle of two steel tubes incorporated with hydraulic absorption units, it attaches to the gun very quickly by means of two bolts, meanwhile adding less than an inch to over-all dimensions of the gun and only three pounds to the weight. It is now termed indispensable to accurate fire, and it saves much of the gun mount's structural weight which was formerly necessary to take recoil forces.
After the first of these .50-cal adapters were put into successful operation, a .30-cal mount followed in which the absorption unit consisted of air cushion, springs, and friction disks in place of hydraulic dampers. At present, twin gun mounts for both .30- and .50-cal weapons are being built in addition to single gun units. It is interesting to note that the present .50-cal adapter goes back to experiments conducted with this machine gun on the Bell Airacuda. The first mount consisted of a steel tube frame connected to two automobile shock absorbers, which were attached to the gun. It worked so well that it served as a basis for the present design, which is very similar in principle.
The device is used on Liberators, Fortresses, Mitchells, Marauders, Navy dive bombers and torpedo planes, and Martin and Consolidated patrol bombers, as well as on British aircraft and on PT boats. The number required has necessitated formation of a separate ordnance division within the Bell company.

The other thing I found out was that the actual gun mount came in three different designs. The first one looked like a hula-hoop that was mounted on a track which allowed it to be housed above the aft end of the bomb bay area and was used on F and early G models.

Then came the half a hoop mount that was also mounted on a track that allowed the gun to be moved into the compartment above the bomb bay. Also found on G models as I understand it.

Finally there came the mount that was used on G models which were incorporated on the Cheyenne modified bombers which, fortunately for me, was what the bomber I'm working on had.

I tell you what, it wasn't easy finding this picture. 

Thanks for following.

Pretty impressive. 

I have basically finished the radio room. I'm still working on the camera, based on a drawing I've found, and the 50 cal gun I'll add later to prevent damage. I did make the brass extinguisher and mount it on a bulkhead. I also added cables, ammo box, and seat belt.

Thanks for following.  Moving on to the waist gunner and ball turret positions, I will attempt to do something that I have never done before.  

The ball part of the ball turret is clear plastic which means that if I want to I can create the internal workings of the ball turret and show it off on one clear side like the side of the aircraft will be.  :)

Here is where I deviate... instead of scratch building like I have done, I intend to create the internal workings using free 3d software and printing it.  I'll keep you posted as I progress.  If I can get good at this there is potential to make model parts of things that have not been created before and sell them.   Something like a 48 scale night binoculars used on the P61 Black Widow.  In the modeling world it doesn't exist.  That's what I mean.  Anyway...

Thanks for following.

Thanks guys, I appreciate all your comments. 

Time for a little catch up now that other home improvement projects are done. I don't have pictures for everything I've done but those I miss will be posted later. For starters, I completed another portable oxygen tank and attached it below the table as well as adding support for the table itself.

There was also a similar support attached to the shelf aft but not shown. .. yet.
From there I started working on the other type of fire extinguisher made of brass.

I've since painted it but again a picture of this will come later.
Finally, I worked on improving the 50 cal. as you can see the one the kit provides doesn't look right and the photo etch doesn't really address this. I worked on the main part of the gun leaving the barrel off for attachment later.

It took me awhile to come up with a decent idea that looked right. For starters I cut off the goofy back end and filed it even with the receiver. Then I added the recoil buffer. For the firing handles and charging handle, I came up with a solution that might surprise you. 
I took a piece of copper wire and bent it around the receiver in a horseshoe shape to get the correct shape I wanted.

This shape was then crushed flat using a hammer and trimmed. The now properly flattened wire was then attached and a very small styrene rod trimmed and attached in the appropriate places.

Finally paint was added and here is how it came out. 

There are other things done but again for now this is what I have pictures of.  Thanks for following.

seriously cool modeling!

What Toshi and Ezra said + 1!!!

This build shows research, planning, patience, endurance, skill, and a passion for the hobby.

Looking forward to all your posts of this build.

Over the weekend, I was able to get more completed on the plane with the addition of the feed belt, ammo box, and 50 cal. I'm still sketchy with photo etched parts but hopefully you will like the results.

Started with the ammunition shute. Kind of tricky with the double fold on each side of the track. I also folded a basic ammo box. This I will add wooden sides.

It was interesting seeing two dimensional bullets. It came out rather well.

Then there was Ma duce... I got a decent start on it.

For those who are following who have never rolled photo etch before, here is how I figured it out.

I found it best to use a very small drill bit rolled back and forth over a soft surface such as a thick cloth type material. Then, once the sides have curled sufficiently, roll on a hard surface to close it up.

With the barrel cover made, I also added a PE sight for the gun. Also made another portable oxygen bottle. Thanks for following.

More work accomplished today. First, I spray painted the radio boxes and other equipment slated to be installed in this part of the aircraft. No photos for this part I'm afraid. Then I started building the camera bay underneath and added an oxygen tank. 

Major structures are now in place and initial paint added. At some point I'll make the camera. For now I'll just wait until the paint dries.  Then I spent the day building and painting radios in preparation for mounting. 

Yes, the table is made of wood.

Not finished yet but I did some fitting and pasting. There are still several more items to build and add along with wiring. 

Thanks Toshi, that was very nice.

Well its been a few weeks. Sorry for the delay, I had some house painting and remodeling to do. Now that it's completed, I can get back to the plane. 

Today I wanted to work on the operator's chair. What the kit provided was not acceptable. First I plugged the hole where the kit seat was suppose to be. 

Then I took a couple of solid 22 awg or 24 awg wire and soldered them into a cross. Soldered wire is relatively soft.

A long nosed set of flat pliers squeezes the two wires together to form even spokes. I wanted the legs to be metal.

Then I took the kit seat and cut the back off. I liked the cushion on it and wanted to use it. Using knife and files, I reformed the bottom of the chair to resemble what I had in mind. 

The wires were then bent and cut to the shape I wanted. The central shaft was made from stretched sprue that was drilled out and had a wire inserted through the middle. These I glued together in preparation for the seat.

Once the seat was carved to what I wanted, I attached the back rest then carefully attached the seat to the legs.

This is what I came up with... and an idea of how big this chair is... 

Thanks for following along.

Wow, I'm blown away!!!!  The attention to detail, scratch work, your continuous research, and technique is just outstanding!

Your friend's, Toshi & Ezra

Now its time for the goodies... 
Taking a minor break from scratch building to start on the photo etch stuff.

More to follow later.

I have been given a moment between honey do items to research the chair in the radio room. From what I've found there were two types. The first looked similar to the pilot and copilot seats. 

The second looks like an old swivel chair that was strapped down to the floor.

One note I found said that the swivel type chairs replaced the other type in 1943 starting with boeing aircraft number 42-30532 which means this aircraft I'm working on had the newer chairs.

Ok, starting on the radio room. Reference photos showed a curved edge in the ceiling toward the bomb bay so I went ahead and tried to recreate it. 

I also cut off that silly pylon sticking out of the floor. I'll plug it an sand it later. 

I cut a newer lower section of wall to cover that concave area. It just doesn't look nice. Once thst was in, I recreated the ribbing for that part.

Next time I'll do some stuff below deck where the camera bay is and a couple of oxygen tanks.

Thanks guys.

Phew... to start I'll say that I have finished the bomb bay section. I had a goal to finish this part before the end of the month and I just made it. First I finished everything I could on the opposite side of the rack because, you know, it would make life easier later on. I attached the lights I made along with their wiring. Added the gangway ropes and lastly added flight cables for that side. I also attached the big bombs and attached the shaft for the forward door gear.

When I thought it looked good enough, I glued in the rack and started attaching near side items.

Wiring for the door motor and hydraulic hose.

Added only the first part of the flight cables for port side after the other two bombs were loaded.

Final photos after an aft door handle was attached.

Thanks guys for the encouragement.  Hope you like what you see.  I'll be taking a break for a couple of weeks as I start the fall honey do lists.

I'm getting close to finishing this section. A few more wires, a couple of hydraulic lines, flight cables, and bombs. I may try for some decals later also. By the way, I discovered that a raft goes above the bomb bay area. 

Thanks

This is really gonna show well. Lov'n it!

you ever see Galaxy Quest the movie? Your quote on the winch about it being on the drawing so you added it reminded me of that movie. The Thermians built a whole ship based on what they saw in a tv show, didn't know how to work it but they built everything that was there!

Just a quick update... added a bit more color.

Thanks

Thanks all. This weekend, I was able to get a bit more accomplished. I have built a winch apparatus for loading bombs. I don't quite understand how it works but since it was in the references I was given I went ahead and built it.

From there I built a couple of lights that are for lighting up the bay. These I'll attach later.

Finally, I worked on a couple of circuit junction boxes and some hydraulic lines before I splashed a little color to get an idea of how I'll paint this.

Thanks for following.

Rounding out the weekend by finishing up on the racks. More study on what it was suppose to look like. Discovered that there was a pulley at the top of the inboard racks. Also that it was open. Then there are the solenoids with accompanying wiring I get to do later. Atleast the solenoids are in now. Wiring will come later after I paint it. Only items left to build is a winch located aft starboard side, the hydraulic lines, wiring with accompanying boxes and flight control cable guides. Looking to finish this section this month and moving on. I hope...

The styrene is .020 inches. 

Thanks for all the kind comments and encouragement.

What else to say but............. 

I was able to get a bit more done today. Focused mainly on the bomb racks. First I trimmed out the bottom. Reference photos showed an open space there. 

Then started installing the bomb switches or sensors. 

The dots that I had cut earlier were used for the round fasteners used for holding the bomb release shackles.  I've also drilled a couple holes for wiring later.

Well... I've been able to finish the main structures in the bomb bay. Next I'll work on the more finer parts.. the fiddly bits. 
While working through this, I keep finding references that guide me in improvements. It's like painting, if I don't like what I have then I just repaint it. In this case, I rebuild what I need. 

Thanks for the kind words. I did repaint that fire extinguisher the proper color and added a handle.   Also completed more of the bomb bay.  Starting on the bomb racks with photos to follow hopefully by next weekend as time permits. 

CapnMac, you've got my attention. Carry on sir. This is a hefty build indeed. Looking forward to seeing what you do next. =]

Night Fighter

From my research, there were two types of extinguishers used in aircraft; Carbon Dioxide and Carbon Tetrachloride. CO2 is most effective with fuel and oil fires, Tetrachloride was more for fabric and wood. This chemical was also used for electrical fires since it didn't conduct. It is my understanding that the hand pump extinguishers were used through 1943 and eventually phased out to pressurized hand held ones.

Carbon Tet gave the most "extinguish" ability per pound of any product then available.  It chemically binds up oxygen to rob fire of oxidizer.  Downside is that it's not exactly human-friendly.  The risk was balanced against being in an unpressurized a/c with available breathing O2 immediately available.

Carbon tet was simple to make, very stable in storage, relatively insensitive to changes in pressure, and temperature. 

Contrast that with CO2 bottles.  Which needed heavy pressure-proof bottles, the nozzles and release had to be usable from sea level to Service Ceiling, which is a significant range of pressures.  The effect of C)2 is to smother a fire adn rob it of O2 and also chilling the fuel source of a fire.  If battle damage has occurred, ther ecould be significant air movement within the a/c.  Also, at altitude, wher ethe temperature was already very low, the cooling effect of CO2 was decreased, and the pressure change meant some dispersion for the "plume."

So, while it was a proven and known quantity on the ground and apron, it's use while flying had issues.

The Carbon Tet cannisters were often relatively thin as they had to hold little pressure.  They were a mix of brass and copper, too, as that could be soldered to make a good liquid-tight seal.

Once AAF went to pressurized a/c, the carbon tet had to go.

Night Fighter

 The aircraft he pictured though were earlier versions.  You can tell by the waist gunner positions. 

Very observant! Inch High says on his web page, "B-17 Interior Color Summary from T. O. 01-20EF-2" The best I can determine, the T.O.01-20EF-2 specs were for a B-17F!

I did read some place that toward the end of the war, red became the standard. In that case there is nothing wrong with your red fire extinguisher.

Suppose your plane went out on a mission and had to deploy the fire extinguisher. The next day before going out on another mission that fire extinguisher would be replaced with what ever is available; it could be new out of he box, or even a spare from a junked B-17F.

Have a good and safe Independence Day!

Thanks, I found that very useful.  It also explains the fire extinguishers.  The aircraft he pictured though were earlier versions.  You can tell by the waist gunner positions.  Early aircraft had the waist gunners side by side.  They got into each others way.  Later aircraft, like the one I'm modeling, had the waist gunner positions staggered.  

What I have learned from your photos confirmed some things B17 guy was telling me.  Based on all the information I now have, here is my hypothesis concerning extinguishers on B17G's   There seems to have been two different types of extinguishers.  One was a natural metal (Brass) and looked very small.

The other was similar to what I modelled and was most likely olive drab green.  Perhaps the red ones came later during the war at an attempt to standardize colors for fire fighting equipment.  Ground extinguishers were red.  Here is a document showing both types of extinguishers.

From my research, there were two types of extinguishers used in aircraft; Carbon Dioxide and Carbon Tetrachloride.  CO2 is most effective with fuel and oil fires, Tetrachloride was more for fabric and wood.  This chemical was also used for electrical fires since it didn't conduct.  It is my understanding that the hand pump extinguishers were used through 1943 and eventually phased out to pressurized hand held ones.

I'll repaint and change a little bit the red one in the cockpit and add others as best as possible described in the document I posted earlier. 

Thanks

Inch High Guy suggests that the B-17 " Radio equipment and instrument panels were black. Oxygen bottles were yellow.  Fire extinguishers were left in natural metal.  Walkways were covered in a rubber non-slip material.  Interior components were provided from numerous subcontractors, so there can be some variations in details and finishes." I cannot vouch for his accuracy; but I am sure he knows more than I do! He has 3 parts discussing the B-17 interior. It might be a worthwhile read. https://inchhighguy.wordpress.com/2019/09/11/b-17-flying-fortress-interior-colors-part-i/

It appears that fire extinguishers could either be red or olive drab. Most likely, however, the extinguishers were olive drab. Here are examples of what I found as well as where they were located around the aircraft.

What do you guys think?

Night Fighter

...I know that perhaps my scratch building is not as nice as many of your models but practice is helping me improve over time. Thanks for your interest. 

You are too modest!  You've got excellent scratchbuilding skills, and your details really improve the kit, amazing details.  

I'll check, thanks.  I do know the extinguishers on the flight line were red based on a colored photograph. 

Night Fighter, beautiful work. Mt understanding is that WW2 fire extinguishers were not red. You may want to check that out before you button her up.

Thanks...  I still have the aft wall to do and the actual bomb racks.  Then there are the hydraulics, power cables, and flight cables.  Once those are done, I'll work on painting it very carefully...   Oh and the rivets.

That's gonna look great! Lots of well laid down details there.

Spent the weekend working on the door mechanisms. The motor, worm gears, shafts, and the like. Took some time but it came out pretty well. 

First was the transition and worm gears. Next you can see how the bomb bay door came out.

Then the drive motor for the door mechanisms. 

Then the threaded shafts. 

Finally the rest of the drive shafts I was able to do. Not all of them but most.

Thanks.

Moving on, I was able to get more completed on the bomb bay area. Mostly focusing on the central walkway part. It's not done yet but did manage the main part. Upright portion maybe next weekend depending on available time.

It's not attached, just doing fit checks.

Thanks

Oh there's lots of good work here! Will look great through that clear fuselage half. I'm using your bottle method for my aircraft carrier. Very handy. Love the updates!

Here is an update to the build... as I discover mistakes, I do my best to correct them. In this case I had put the sidewall braces in the wrong place and configuration. I have made the corrections on the but also discovered a couple of mistakes on the bomb bay door. Nothing major but I will correct it when I have a chance.  And with this post I am now up to date.

Using wine wrap foil, I used a punch set to make rivits.

Now the side walls are correct. 
Starting the central walkway. 

Thanks.

I was able to get more done on the bomb bay area. I built up the ribbing on the door then fitted the aft bulkhead in the bay. This part is kind of tricky because I still have the office to make on the reverse side. There was also the part that is outside the tube portion that had to be blocked off. Seems to have come out ok. Thanks for following. 

Appreciate any comments.

Continuing on, I started to flesh out the bay area. I added supports and cross sections to the bulkhead starboard side. The side was puzzling even from the photo above compared to other references. I then realized part of the zigzag structure was obscured in the photo above. I drilled holes in the lower part of the wall to add the hinge part that would be visible. I had to stop early but in time I'll have the door built up as well.

The disks I punched out of wine foil for the door handle.

Started on the bomb bay and noticed another flaw as I was putting in the sides. The problem I will expose with the last photo.

Noticing the keyed attachment hole for the wing, I did a test fit with the wing and found that the design is pretty neat. The keyed part fits through the hole then slides forward to lock it in place. This lock pulls the wing up close and tight against the fuselage.

That depression in the side, as seen from the inside, has to be covered up to look right. Upon examination, I found that I could cut the key part shorter but retain the locking portion and be able to put a flat section in.

After test fitting the opposite bulkhead, I scribed and fitted a panel in. Photos show the bay to be totally tubular so a rounded ceiling also has to go in. It was during some test fitting that I spotted the problem.

The center rack is too tall...

I do intend to paint over areas where there is nothing to see but I'm still not sure weither to add the other oxygen tanks and other  control panel.  I will be adding several port side items in the forward compartment.  Nothing more I think down below because of the wing root except maybe a mid-ship oxygen tank.  I'm also planing on putting in the portside waistgun position.  Thanks for the comments guys.

Night Fighter

Thanks guys.  The model kit I'm building from is called the Visible B-17.  The entire port side is clear plastic so all of the extra detail I'm doing will be visible.  Actually there will be more visible than I want like the upper tail rudder section.  That is why I left off much of the port side equipment.  I just need anothers opinion as to wheither or not to add some of the port side detail or not in certain areas because of the possibility that it would block the view of other detailS.

 

That is great! I forgot to ask if you had the clear fuse side. You can still use the all clear shell and strategically mask some sections to show the details and  paint areas with minimal details to get the “cut out“ look. 

Amazing, absolutely amazing.  Your attention to detail will be shown once the clear fueselage is assembeled.

Your freind,

Toshi

Thanks guys.  The model kit I'm building from is called the Visible B-17.  The entire port side is clear plastic so all of the extra detail I'm doing will be visible.  Actually there will be more visible than I want like the upper tail rudder section.  That is why I left off much of the port side equipment.  I just need anothers opinion as to wheither or not to add some of the port side detail or not in certain areas because of the possibility that it would block the view of other detail.

The diamond pattern from the bottle foil looks the part. Definitely adds to the interior of the plane. I plan to use your bottle making idea here shortly for ones on my carrier. Keep it coming. Gonna be a nicely detailed aircraft when you're done. I 2nd plasticjunkie's thought about being able to see your work!

I think you are doing one heck of a super detailed Flying Fort. Are you planning to have some cutous to show off the scratch building? It will be a shame to hide all those fantastic details you have added. 

Well I'm now at a point where I can say the office area is basically done. Granted there is still the upper turret but that gets dropped in later. I'm still not sure if I want to put in the copilot' s side consol, that is already painted, just needs to be pasted in. Could use a couple opinions on that.
So I began by finishing the seatbelts. I show how I scratch built them. Then I provide a reference just to show how tiny this is. I also added some things to the seats that I saw in photos. Painted them up and moved on.

Did a fit check of the deck with the fuselage half then proceeded to install it. Did final plumbing and touch up painting. Hope you like the results.

What do you guys think; should I add the near side oxygen tanks or not? I'm thinking not since it might make it look too crowded and harder to see other details but I could go either way. There will be some areas that I will show since it would make that station look more complete. Just wondering what you guys think... Thanks

I was able to get more completed over the weekend. Installed a couple of oxygen tanks and worked a wiring. I also verified fits for final installation of flight deck. I am near completion of this part. Hopefully next weekend I will be able to move on to the bomb bay.

I am almost caught up to where I'm currently at.  The oxygen tanks gave me fits for some time until I finally came up with the best method for making them.  it really was a process but hopefully someone else who goes through this may find my efforts useful for their own build.  I don't claim to be any kind of expert.  I have been fortunate enough to write to a B17G crew member but sadly he is gone now.  The lady I'm making this for tells me that the ball turret gunner for this particular plane is still alive but I have not been able to reach him yet.  

Looking over these oxygen tanks, I don't like how it came out. Sooooo.... I focused on improvement. I found a smaller EZ-line and tried using it. The results were more like what I was hoping for. After I painted them. The three tanks behind the seat went it pretty good. 

Then I focused on the portable oxygen tank mounted on the stack of tanks. Thankfully that was much easier. 

I made a change to the molded accumulators. Shaved them off then proceeded to scratch build.

I also added a bracket for the fire extinguisher.

Now I think it looks better. So far the fit is getting a little tight but it all seems to work out.
Thanks guys for your support. Fiddly stuff next.. Some may notice the change to an earlier post. I couldn't leave those oxygen tanks alone. Hope they look better. The accumulators were made based on two sources given to me. Thanks George. The model company had them wrong, now there's a shock.

Recently picked up and installed a needed addition to my model shop. 

Having recently come into a few extra bucks, gone into upgrade mode. Right now I'm looking at a 3d resin printer along with a few other useful tools.  I needed this because the cats like to play with small parts while I'm at work. It's second hand so not that expensive but darn useful and tools and parts don't clutter the workspace anymore.  Now back to work.

The area where the flight cables originate is difficult to begin. To help me, I drew a scale representation of the area. Then I calculated the size of the structures needed to be fabricated. Here are some pictures chronicling my attempt.

I did have to alter what I had earlier put it. The photos I obtained of this area were a great help. 

I also got a chance to apply my first home made decals. The letters are a font size 4 which seemed to be just right.  The obvious edges of the decals I'll blend away later.

Finally I started working on the seat belts using foil from a large yogurt container and some brass wire from a wine bottle. 

I'll try to finish these a little later. I know that perhaps my scratch building is not as nice as many of your models but practice is helping me improve over time. Thanks for your interest.

A little more work under the deck using brass shims. Hope you like. 

Small pieces to more closely match the photos and added a bracket to hold an oxygen tank. Added a little paint. Hope it looks ok.

More scratch building. This time I added in another oxygen tank with and made another correction to the side of the compartment. I also built up some kind of regulation system I don't know the name of at the moment. Built it once and realized it was too large so I scaled it down. Looks better now.

I got real lucky. I finally obtained a photo of the underside of the control collumn. Now I know what it looks like. For the benefit of others, two of the photos I include here.

Worked on the siding while the yellow paint is drying on the oxygen tanks and bottles.

Oxygen bottles are almost done. One more thin coat of yellow before I add the bands and nipples on the ends. After consulting further images, I've built up the area under the flight deck to more closely resemble the photos I've seen. I also discovered that there were two shelves for equipment side by side under the flight deck. The more forward one was longer and had a door that went to a manual latch that I think went to the bomb bay doors but I'm not sure. I need to reread that part. Anyway, here are a few photos to chronicle my efforts. Thanks George for the reference material. It has been very helpful.

One of the hardest things I was trying to figure out was how to get the nice diamond pattern insulation found on bombers of this time. As it happens, I was putting away the remnants of a celebration we had and I noticed the foil I removed from a couple of the bottles had a nice miniature diamond pattern pressed into it. So I figured why not? Sprayed it with primer and cut a piece to fit the new wall I installed. What do you guys think? If it looks good enough, I just might install it in the front section. 

painted the foil a dark green before a light dry brush of yellowish green with a hint of gray.

Thanks, much appreciated.   :)

The flight deck looks awesome so far!

Thanks. The only thing I really don't know about is the flight deck floor.  My research says that is was metal with a black rubber runway mat that ran from the back door to the hatch that goes below.  Any help in that area would be great.

Love what you did with those bottles! They are super convincing.

I didn't like the way the fire extinguisher looked... too 2 dimensional. So I carefully cut it off and made a new one from the parts sprue.

I also started working on the side wall where some of the plumbing goes. In photos, I found the side walls flat not concave. This took some doing as I had to get the measurements perfect for it to fit alone.

Finally got the levers in along with the rest of the gauges. Also my micro punch finally arrived. Now I can print and put in my own gauges where there were none available before.

I had found that it was easier to use the old fashioned tube glue for the levers that it was to use CA glue.

In preparation for working on the bomb bay, I added the lower section of the bulkhead that was omitted in the kit. Used a couple of 0.04 thick sheet styrene to make it. An inverted round bulkhead gave me the shape I needed to fit properly. Drew the pattern onto the styrene and cut with a pair of scissors. Glued in and sanded to shape after trimming to the right depth.

Next started on the control yoke, plane's steering wheel, I didn't like that it was molded flush with the vertical portion. Sooooo...... I cut off the naughty bits and sanded the collumn smooth. Then I scratch built the yoke using 0.8 mm round stock. That size looked right. Used 2.5 mm round stock for the yoke center.

The center part was sanded to be as flat as possible. Put the parts all together, provided a standoff for the yoke and attached to the collumn.

I've determined that there were large oxygen cylinders both below deck and behind the pilot's seats. Now I just need to determine how large they were. Math time. Take the measurement of a known object within the same picture as the target object and create a ratio from the measurement of the actual object. Use that ratio to determine actual size from the picture, plus or minus a bit, of the target object. Add a little artistic license and there you have it.  Now to put into practice.

I've come up with approximately 13mm or .51in in length in 48 scale. Which looks about right. What's really going to be fun is putting that fine detail in the ribbing around each of those tanks. 

It took me a long time to figure out how to make these oxygen tanks.  I experimented trying one idea after another until I finally came up with a solution.

In the mean time I decided to do something else to get my mind off of them.  I wanted to do something nice for the nice lady for whom I'm building this plane.  So I made a scale model of her father, the pilot of this plane.  When I gave it to her, her family made the comment that it looked just like him.

After a bit of experimentation, I've come up with the following method that takes roughly two minutes to do. First of all I used a variable speed drill.  I inserted the rod I'm making these from like a drill bit into the drill.

Run the drill with rod end into rough sandpaper until the end is rounded properly. Then I measure from the end to the correct length. After marking, I then used insulation foam with a trough and a razor saw for cutting. Holding the saw in place over the mark, I ran the drill and got a perfect even cut.

The part that was cut off was then installed as a drill bit into the drill. Finger tight.

Then I just ran the drill on sandpaper until the other end resembled the first.

Within two minutes I was done.

There are two, what looks like, a couple of accumulators. These are situated in that area beneath the instrument panel. These I have scratch built. I also worked on the wall next to it. Next I painted up the two side control panels. 

added photo etch goodies to the flight controls. 

And now, ... the curtains. I've had to use a little artistic license since I've never found a photo or drawing as to how its hung. I used tissue paper soaked in white glue and water, cut to size, fitted, folded, painted, glued into place and tied. I hope you like the result. Should someone find a picture or drawing as to how these were hung, let me know and I'll correct it.

Next I went to work on the control panel. Added the canvas cover and the gauges like so...

Added the support bracket between the rudder pedals as shown in the prior photograph.

Still working on the curtain and the area under the pilots.

oops double posted..

Thanks, I used chalk rubbed into the wood to tint it then sealed it with floor polish.  Seemed to work out well.

I really like the balsa idea. That deck would be noticeable so definitely worth it!

Mated the different levels. As soon as it dries, I'll refloor it with balsa.

The operation was a success, the new configuration worked and passes fit check. Just putting on the new wood decking now.

 
Now it looks like it is suppose to. To bad it took all day but I believe it was worth it. Hope you guys like it. Let me know if something else seems offish.

I found that I don't like the way the forward floor area on the kit was done so I started some major surgery on the front decks. Most of the relevant photos show that there seems to be three deck levels rather than just two. The middle deck is really a step between the two and there is a round section to accommodate the chin turret. I plan to capture this. I also started making the tissue paper canvas for the back of the instrument panel. 

Operation seems to be coming along well. Not a lot more to go. Just some final cuts and fits.

Just posting pictures at the moment. Will go into more detail as time permits.

After studying photos of old planes and reading what the floor material was, I decided to go ahead and add the section going from the pilot's station through to the navigator's station.

Since I decided to use real wood for the plywood floor covering, I drilled holes where the table legs should be and where the navigator's stool would sit. Place holders if you will. I also added styrene to build up the edges of the one entrance and extend the bulkhead to the lower part of the aircraft. I attached the turret pin and plate and made them movable for later. I also drilled lightning holes in the vertical section between the floors as all photos I've seen of this area have them. 

The plywood is 1/32nds thick balsa that was cut to fit within the area intended and sanded to near construction paper thin. I used CA glue to attach the wood then cut and sand to shape. The colored chalk was used to stain the wood to the appropriate color. A kind of orange-ish stain due to the varnish used on the wood. I rubbed orange and a touch of red chalk powder into the wood then put a bit of liquid floor polish on it to seal it. Once the wood dried, with the pigment still in the wood, I sanded it a little more to remove the rough areas caused by the wood being wet. The final sanding was with a high grit (1K) paper that polished the wood smooth. I really liked the way it came out. The upper deck was done the same way, just cut and sanded carefully to allow for the two protrusions to show while I fitted it. The only thing that bothers me at the moment on this area is the circular portion of the upper deck. I'm not sure if that was on all of them or some. If I need to I will recreate this. 

The chairs were then added along with a shot of Bronze to set the under color. I'll dry brush the final green, slightly lighter in color, to get the details to pop. Under the flight deck will be painted aluminum and a aluminum floor runner going between the two openings will be added along with the detail I've been able to find for this area. 

I plan to use tissue paper stretched with water and white glue to make the canvas cover for the back side of the instrument panel.

 

My next problem will be where to put the several oxygen tanks that allowed the plane to fly at such high altitudes. There are two areas in question. I've seen them located behind the pilots seats and I've seen them located beneath the floor under the pilot seats. I'm not definite about which one is correct. Looking for internal diagrams to be sure before I commit to them. Hope you enjoyed.

 

After modifing one of the chairs, I started on the second one.

The chairs as they now appear.

 

 

Just figured out how to fix the pedals so did a quick fix...

 

Fit tested...

Thank you very much.  Your comment is much appreciated.

This has been a good read so far. Looks like you're doing a great job. Probably going to be one of the best visible B-17's.

Doing dry fittings to check for any hangups and for corrections I will need to make. Also painting but that will be later today.

First the seats are different. B17's I've looked at didn't have the high backs as the kit has.  The high backs I have seen were in the movies.  I think I will go with the low backs that I have seen more photos of.

 
Next, I saw the great gap where the wing attaches but I already knew about it.

 

But there are also these great alignment pins that will need to be addressed.

 
Not to mention that the bomb bay has really no detail to it. Not even a door from either side as can be viewed above.

 

Then there are the rudder pedals that are too close together.

 
I've got my work cut out for me.

Well after going through every photo available for the 351st Bomb Group, I have found that they did not have a regular artist. About 80% of the photos available did not have art work from what I could find. What they did have was a colligrapher. Most of those that did have art work were done around the beginning of the war. I am very certain that this plane only had its name written on it and I would bet that it would have been in the style or font of the comic book and odds are that it was written on the lower left side of the nose if not both sides.

Started airbrushing area I've worked on. I will airbush this area again to build up the color.

 
So far so good. 

 

 

 

Did some sleuthing as to the name and possible artwork on the aircraft. Fearless Fosdick was represented one of three ways. It depended on first, if there was a unit artist or not. Then it depended on advertising flyers that were seen by the crew during painting. With this in mind, I researched Fearless Fosdick and here is an ad that were circulated during that time for this aircraft.

...Along with the comic cover. 

Now I'll show photos of bombers named Fearless Fosdick and see if you can find some similarities.

I'm seeing a trend aren't you?

If there were no unit artists, or the commander was against art work, then the name was just written on the side.

I just need to look at other planes of that unit and look at the quality or absence of art work on their planes. If there are several examples of art work then I'll add a picture, if not then just letters will do.

Doing more research into the tail section and realized my worm gear motor is slightly off. Easy enough to fix. I intend to finish building up the internal structures today... fingers crossed. 

Here is what I've been able to do in the little time I had. The worm gear drive was too far to the rear and gear motor not present. That's corrected. I also got futher on the forward section. 

This front area is very tricky. I may need to put a couple of windows in before I frame them correctly around them. There are also several stringers missing. These will have to be added with stretched sprue. 

I think I will put the windows in and tape them up good. Then put a little clear acrylic varnish around the edges to prevent paint and fumes from getting under the tape and attacking the clear plastic.

I've added the windows and built up the framework around one thus far. Rounded the inside corners and will sand round the outside corners. Looks promising.

I finally got the forward windows looking better and added stringers I saw in photos but not the kit.

So on with the project.

I noticed that the tailwheel distance wasn't right during a fit check when compared to photos so I made a few modifications.  Also that whole area just didn't look right to me...  so I went to work.

I cut off stuff that wasn't needed and strengthened what I had with a paperclip.

fitted it in and started recreating the tail landing gear mechanisims. 

Looking a little better now.

For awhile I wasn't sure how this area looked so this is what I had done.  Later I made some corrections to better match a maintenance manual I came across.

Then there was the dog house that was part of the wheel well.  I used a water bottle, yogurt stick, and wine cork to make it.

I later found the holes on one part were incorrect so I filled them in.  I will change things as needed to try to get it right.

Then I needed the canvas part so I used tissue and Elmers to create the material.

I couldn't quite get the sag I saw but I figured it doesn't look too bad.

B17guy, I'm sorry, I meant no offense.  I'll take any advice you send my way. Thanks

Wow I really like your vision and what you are doing.

I will watching this one to the end...

Ben

Finishing up the day with more rib work. I added the armor plating by the waist position and the upper portion of a couple or ribs where the flight cables will go through. I also figured out the tail wheel situation. I need to make a half shell for the tail wheel to retract into and a canvas cover for the forward part. Then I can make the retracting piston and other mechanisms to be shown outside the covers and still retain the strength I need to hold up the plane.

Here is where I finished.

It has been a little difficult finding photos of specific areas, much less any technical drawings. The rear area between the tail wheel retraction gear and the tail gunner area is not a popular place and usually not worth modeling since no one ever sees it. Still I did find some clues through photos posted around the internet. I plan to just generally model this area with what little I know about this plane and paint over this section just enough to hint its there without going overboard. Here are some photos I've found from around the web.

Then there is the front section. Like the waist gun area, there are ribs and longerons that are very pronounced. I plan to strip down the molded on equipment, build up the framing in the appropriate places, then scratch build and add photo etch parts to as close as it should be. 

The other nice thing about this photo is it shows the bronze green color that was purportedly used on bombers of this time period although it would be close. The date of manufacture of this aircraft shows that it was built in Seattle Washington just a couple months before the color specification changed... again. 

The cockpit area is one of the very few I've found that shows the bronze green color.

Time for more updates. In preparation for the photo etch additions, I went over the different sections and modified the necessary parts. 

The seats are not what I have seen in dozens of photographs.

The wheels I decided were'nt too bad, so I used a razor saw to help with the tread.

Thank you for the pictures B17guy.  There is a lot that I don't know about the plane but my studies confirm that the padding was not just in the pilots office but in the nose as well and I believe there was one photo that showed it, but like you mentioned it could have been added later.  The reference I provided was from a fellow with IPMS and was throughly researched.  I tend to lean in that direction.  To my mind it would make sense to have the forward area padded since it was near the engines and of course they needed to hear.  The padding I did see for the forward area was of a type that was in small pieces and fit inbetween the ribbing and stringers.  The colors I'm sure are accurate for the time period because they are based, on what I understand to be, on standing orders.  They did change those inside colors from time to time.  At the end of the war, again as I understand it, a lot of painting was not done because it added weight to the plane.  The  plane I'm doing is based at a specific time and at a specific place.  Yeah I know you know that.  Thanks though.  I really appreciate the information.  It will help during the build.  Also, this is at the moment my moving a thread I've already done to this forum.  I have not completed the plane yet but I am further along than the thread currently suggests.  My purpose is to show how I got to where I'm at now.

This picture is clearly from a restored aircraft and does not necessarily reflect actual history.

https://imgur.com/a/ivVfY

Look through here, these pics are from the modification center in Cheyenne. The added the pumpkin tail, bulged cheek windows and various other things. These pics are gold!!!

First off I've finally gotten in all the photo etch parts I ordered and a sheet of generic bomber decals.

 
The rest of the decals I'll have to make myself. Next, after more research of interior photographs I've worked more around the right waist gunner's position. Of course now I finally get to use the set of dental bits I've had for just such an occasion. 

 
The one bit not shown was the one currently in my Dremel. The end looks like a wad cutter pellet but rough for grinding. That one I was using to remove surface detail that was incorrect for what needed to be shown

 The stringers were well represented but not the longerons or stations. These I'm making more defined. 

For those who do not know about what different parts of planes are called, those lines you see running horizontally from nose to tail are called longerons and stringers. The difference is in the size and purpose. Longerons are the larger of the two and are used for structural integrity... to help the plane keep its basic form. Stringers are smaller and add strength to the shape of the aircraft. Stations are the ribs of the plane and bulkheads are, for lack of a better word, walls that divide the different sections. All of this is part of an aircraft construction technique call semimonocoque. Say that ten times fast.

I think that what I do will keep your attention...

Okay, time to do some updates. I've been researching and studying interior colors for this aircraft. 

One of the things I came across was an article written by Martin Waligorski called, "Interior Colours of US Aircraft, 1941-45." This can be found on (www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2004/02/stuff_eng_interior_colours_us_part2.htm). 

The section for B-17's says that the early B-17s had overall Zinc Chromate Yellow interiors, Bronze Green cockpits and navigator's stations, and Aluminium lacquer bomb bays. The general rule for F and G models was Bronze Green in the nose section containing the bombardier and navigator, the cockpit area including the pilots, top gunner/engineer, and radio room. Anti-glare was Olive Drab. 

The inner fuselage sides in the nose, cockpit and radio room were covered with green canvas padding. The green in the photos I've seen look to be a kind of olive drab almost gray green colour. The Cabin floor was made of varnished plywood and high traffic areas were covered with black rubber mats for anti-skid purposes in the waist gun, radio room and top turret areas. The floor in the pilot/navigator cabin was left in natural metal. Pilot and navigator seats were most likely bronze green.

Aft of the radio room, early production aircraft were painted Zinc Chromate Yellow but later versions were often bare metal with Zinc Chromate Yellow or Zinc Chromate Green bulkheads and longerons. In photos presented in the article, I noted that both longerons and stringers were painted Zinc Chromate Green. Other items noted from the photo provided was the supports for walk areas and brackets for supporting equipment were also Zinc Chromate Green. 

Prevailing Colour inside the gun turrets appears to be a Dull Dark Green with later models also using flat black.

Bomb bays and bomb bay doors were unpainted. Wheel wells are believed to be interior green.

Started working on the plane to try and improve the visible wall. Added strips of styrene to enhance the rather flat ribs. Filled in wing root area also with styrene just in areas that may be seen. Also did some priming of the wings.

Well it looks like I need to do some minor surgery here. The waist gunner positions were staggered on this construction block of B-17G's. It shouldn't be too bad since I found it early. The hole is straight forward and the steps I can make but the air deflector will be tricky. Thank goodness its not on the clear side as that would be not possible. Oh well, let the surgery begin. Thank goodness for photo etched razor saws. 

I marked out and drilled the location of the new window, correct location. Then I did some minor cuts. Before removing anything though, I needed to cover over the old window. Used 0.020 styrene cut and shaped to the old window and fitted it to the outside. I'll fit a second sheet to the inside so that the inner surface looks even. Here are photos to record my progress.

Side note, the ribbing addons are .02x.02 styrene square strip. 

Here is the kit as I started washing all the parts and preping for work.

Since the side is clear I have a lot of detailing to do.  Now here is the crew and an extra for the pilot, my neighbor's dad.

Great thanks mate.

You need a photo hosting site. There are a few out there, i use Flickr, but there are otehrs. Just avoid Photobucket.