Think we're stupid!

The subject question says it all! Yes, they do and until we do something about it its going to be the same'o, same'o.They are there because we put them there. Yes, they lied just like we knew they would but we were looking for the greater good. Don't vote party, vote the person who's gong to get the job done and make them accountable to get it done. Otherwise, its just the ........

At the St. Louis Fair & Air Show, the announcer says thay have a B-17, 2 P-51s, a P-39, a Avenger, and a Dauntless. All the planes but the Navy planes take off. Then one avenger takes off. Another Avenger takes off. The announcer repeadly calls the Avenger IN POST-WAR MARKINGS a dauntless. He even said that the planes look similar. An Air Force person was also standing in the announcers stand. Another person on the idiot list.

The inaccurcies (sic) in movies doesn't bother me that much unless its really bad (The Battle of the Bulge and Midway do lead the pack in bad). I realize the cost to put together a few wings of actual 109s, Spits and Stukas for a movie would propably outpace our national debt, so they have to work with what they have (stock file footage). So the bottom line becomes the determining factor and I realize that in movies. Seems to be getting some what better in the computor age anyway. But where I really get unhappy is with television, especially with the so-called learning channels. I don't know but it seems that these channels (TLC, Discovery and the History Channel) did a better job of presenting an accurate program years ago than they do today. Remember the Wings series from several years back on the Discovery channel? I always felt they were interesting , informative and most important as accurate as possible. I've watched shows lately on thes channels on all different kinds of subjects that have been filled with absurd inaccuracies. (How about a "documentary" on the Luftwaffe in the Battle of France and suddenly there are pictures of B-26 Marauders are shown bombing a railroad marshalling yard). I would really expect these stations to at least try to make the effort to be accurate. I wouldn't be too suprised to have one of them tell me that a B-17 did drop the third nuclear weapon on Japan. Don't think there is anything we can do about it (lets face it 90 per cent of the people in this country believe if it isn't a 747 its a J-3) except live with it. Anyhoo, thanks for letting me vent my spleen on this subject.

I haven't seen "Pursuit of the Graf Spee" but if they go to the expense of a model they shouldn't use footage of the wrong ship.

That was a little tounge-in-cheek considering the condition of the Graf Spee

Hi Claymore, I guess what I meant about the Graf Spee was that they used models and live action shots. Might as well do the correct models like in Sink the Bismarck and skip live shots instead.

"It is well that war is so terrible, lest we grow too fond of it."-R.E.Lee

QUOTE: Another: an American cruiser simulating the Graf Spee in "Pursuit of the Graf Spee".

This was due to necessity. It would have been a little expensive to use the real thing.

QUOTE: Originally posted by tigerman Heres one: Texan trainers being used as Zeroes in Baa Baa Black Sheep.

Well, that was before you could use computers to put accurate aircraft into a scene, so it should probably be forgiven.

Plus, they did a lot of work on those Texans to make them look like Zeroes

QUOTE: Originally posted by tigerman At least the producers of Private Ryan and Band of Brothers got it close to right.

It would have been nice if the close air support had been Thunderbolts instead of Mustangs

Hey Everyone;
here's another one; Battle of the Buldge, the Germans are going for our fuel dump of gasoline, German equipment mostly ran on Diesel, then why go for gas when you run on diesel?, and the run was for the coast of Belguim not for gasoline, and the battle that broke the German offensive was Patton's push to Bastone and not an all out battle between King Tiger to Sherman in open fields, by the way where was the forrest?,
remember to have fun & relax
cuda

Heres one: Texan trainers being used as Zeroes in Baa Baa Black Sheep. Another: an American cruiser simulating the Graf Spee in "Pursuit of the Graf Spee". Midway and the Battle of the Bulge were two of the worst technically made war movies ever made. But as far as Hollywierd is concerned, it boils down to dollar$. They figure the majority of the viewers are novices on war material and wouldn't know the difference, thus saving them countless dollars on accurracy. However, to us historians, we are overly offended by the so-called lack of caring by the hollywierd brass. What Hollywierd really needs are better researchers. At least the producers of Private Ryan and Band of Brothers got it close to right.

"It is well that war is so terrible, lest we grow too fond of it."-R.E.Lee

QUOTE: Originally posted by sahickerson I think the only one that nearly sent me psych ward drooling was a documentary about Operation Tidal Wave, the B-24 raid on the oil refineries at Ploiesti, Romania. ALL the flight footage was of the B-17! Every stinkin plane was a Fort! There was one Liberator in the whole show and it was an H model with nice pretty aluminum skin.

I like your signature--"Percussive maintenance." It sounds like what I call the "Neanderthal remedy."

QUOTE: Originally posted by 72cuda Oh here's a few for the folk's MIdway; Chuck Heston's final scene= flying in a Dauntless, but shown in a Vendicator, then crashes in a Panther, and we didn't even know that F9F's where around for the battle of Midway............ The Hunt For Red October; F-14 crash scene=F-14 on final approach then F9F(same from Miday) crashs, I didn't know F9F's where still in Naval inventory in 1984?

Yeah, that Cat's had more lives than Shirley McLain.I couldn't count the number of times I've seen that clip spliced into movies and TV shows..It doesn't matter what the era is.
."Just show it to em , they'll never know the difference."

sahickerson - I haven't seen that one, but that would upset me also. My father flew one of the B-24s on that raid. If I had seen it, I'd have probably snapped off a letter to the producers. What a disservice to those who took part in that raid. To include one erroneous fact in a documentary leaves the entire program as suspect.

I think the only one that nearly sent me psych ward drooling was a documentary about Operation Tidal Wave, the B-24 raid on the oil refineries at Ploiesti, Romania. ALL the flight footage was of the B-17! Every stinkin plane was a Fort! There was one Liberator in the whole show and it was an H model with nice pretty aluminum skin.

The same always applies to bombing raids, no matter how far away the explosions are, the flash and the thump are always at the same time. I've been out at bombing ranges with people who are just along for the show, and the Mk 83 goes off, FLASH.....and they turn and say "wow that was quiet, how.." BOOOM! And watch them nearly wet themselves. Always good for a giggle.

That's what happens when your 2 kms from the target.

QUOTE: Originally posted by leemitcheltree Yeah, that's true. Ever heard the sound of a seriously heavy impact between two automobiles? It's absolutely nothing like the sounds on tv or movies. Again, I can only say that the majority of what we see and hear (and are told) is aimed at the lowest common denominator. Politicians are a case in point. The freaky thing is - WE were the ones who elected them.............makes you wanna cry.......... Cheers, LeeTree

Along with automobile accidents and firearms, what about lightning and thunder on TV or in the movies? Even if it's distant sheet lightning, the thunderclap always occurs simultaneously. As a thunderstorm fanatic, that always drives me bats! In real life, the only time you'll ever hear thunder nearly simultaneous with the lightning is if the bolt is extremely close; like only yards away. Otherwise, there's that pause of several to many seconds from the time you see the lightning until you hear the thunder.

How about the movie "We Were Soldiers", near the end when the "D" Model Chinook drops off the load of reporters at LZ X-Ray. Of course, I know there's no flyable "A" Models they could use, and most people wouldn't even notice, just us "OldHookers"

"Do your duty today, or your replacement will tomorrow"
Frank

Yeah, well, what do you expect from Hollywood? They are just trying to tell stories (and make a buck!) to the least common denominator. Willfull suspension of disbelief...willfull suspension of disbelief...that IS a Tiger I...that IS a Tiger I...

Here's something along these lines that I remember always seeing on shows like "The Six Million Dollar Man" and other, perhaps Universal, shows: no matter what the aircraft type, be it a Lear jet, 747, or Concorde, upon take-off, they would ALWAYS cut to a close-up of B-52 landing gear retracting, filmed from under the front of the aircraft, looking aft.

Now, as we all now, the B-52's landing gear is pretty unique. Even if you don't know diddly squat about aircraft types, having seen the wide shot of the aircraft leaving the runway in the previous shot should give a person of average intelligence enough visual clues to discern that the gear then shown in the close-up could not possibly be from the plane first shown. Heck, I was a 10-year old kid (albeit a modeling 10-year old kid) and that always drove me nuts!

Oh well, it's making a great forum topic 25 years later!

I'll second Cuda's commentary on the Midway scenes. That always got my boxers in a twist. Anyone remember the 80s TV show "Supercarrier"? Loved those flight scenes showing four different aircraft on approach, all supposed to be the same thing....

Its funny, I've been watching "The West Wing" on Bravo lately, since they started the series from the beginning. Its amusing just how BADLY they screw things up whenever talking about something military. In the episode "A Proportional Response" we're supposed to have just bombed targets in Syria. Yet the President is discussing the "Phoenix, Sidewinder and A-61 [sic]" IT WAS A BOMBING RAID!!!! He's talking about air-to-air weapons! And anyone here ever heard of an A-61? I know the M-61 and the B-61, and you don't wanna be dropping a B-61 on anybody unless they're gonna drop something equally thermonuclear on you.

Anyhow, that's my rant.

or here's the good one in Private Ryan they moded an T-34 to look like a Tiger, grant it there's a shortage of those around but they could have talked to the Imperial War Museum out of London they have one that was completely restored and running now or Aberdeen Proving Grounds they have a few of the old Giants, I can't understand we have got so much equipment being restored from the WWII era why can't Hollywood lease it out from these Museums to make a better & Accurate films, they have consultants but they are not the trained & experianced technicians who worked the equipment, that's who they need to talk to, to gain the knowledge & correctness of the subject they are trying to show, like the movie Patton (which is my favorite war flick), the German Tiger & Panzers where M-48's, and the M-4's where M-41's & M-47's, I wish back then they could have used the real stuff for both sides(there where a bunch of that stuff just laying around in bone yards across the globe) and I do agree the Discovery Channel needs to be more accurate on their shows with the pix, and info, back in the 90's I loved the show Weekday Wings and that was very accurate info but where did it go?, now they got the Discovery Wings Channel but it's not the same,
well I best get off my soap box now, so the next speaker could take the floor

In my opinion such a program like Discovery should be more than perfect ! I remember their program about BoB - it was funny to see Morane-Saulnier Ms- 406 called Hurricane. And of course these pictures with firing double cannons of Hurricane Mk IIC ! And about WWII films - I remember my surprise to see Russian T-34 tanks as German vehicles in "Force 10 from Navarone" ! As I know (and it was in early days) it is not so difficult to disguise quite modern tanks as WWII Tigers ("Kelly Heroes"). The bigger problem is with A/C - but in "Goldeneye" you could see Mig-29 which was a very good model of the real plane ! Aleksander

Gentlemen, and ladies,

What do you expect? The country is being run by "C" students from ivy league schools! To make matters worse, about half the students in the major cities across the U.S.A. do not finish high school. And those who do finish, have been put through a carriculum that has been "dumbed down". And those who do finish with "good grades" think they deserve to be given priority for admissions to good law schools, like the University of Michigan. What a country!

My daughter's high school history teacher actually told the class that a B-17 droped the A-bomb on Hiroshima. The sphincter teacher actually got upset when my daughter informed him that it was a B-29 called the Anola Gay flown by Paul Tibbets. He didn't llike being contradicted, and thought it was disruptive. I had a long talk with the school superintendent, and the school board, but the but-head is still teaching history. Go figure!

Please excuse the spelling and typo's, but it is late, I'm tired, and I am Still freakin P-O'ed about that so called history teacher (It has only been 6 years, I need more time to get over it!) rangerj

Oh here's a few for the folk's
MIdway; Chuck Heston's final scene= flying in a Dauntless, but shown in a Vendicator, then crashes in a Panther, and we didn't even know that F9F's where around for the battle of Midway
Topgun: yeah enough said but this Gooses death scene= ejection seats are timed & measured from the canopy, it's impossible for the occupant to get launched into a canopy during an ejection (eject rockets fire the canopy aft, canopy also hinges aft, there is 4 seconds & 300 ft between canopy firing to seat firing{Zero-Zero ejection systems fire occupant & seat only 200ft=3 swing fall), also Topgun is to instruct pilots on HOW to fight, not some best of the best compatition, the comp's are like AF's Gunsmoke & William Tell, and NATO's Tiger Meet
The Hunt For Red October; F-14 crash scene=F-14 on final approach then F9F(same from Miday) crashs, I didn't know F9F's where still in Naval inventory in 1984?
I really drive my wife nuts when we go see movies that I know that thing's really don't happen that way and I tell her about it, her answer is your so anal-but she still love me

QUOTE: Originally posted by heylonghair QUOTE: Originally posted by maddafinga [brThis post makes me thing about my signature line. What does this post have to do with imaginary friends?? Ray

Well, they produce ww2 avaition doccumentaries, what else would I have meant?

madda

QUOTE: Originally posted by maddafinga [brThis post makes me thing about my signature line.

What does this post have to do with imaginary friends??

Ray

what about the film battle of the bulge? both sides in u.s. tanks fighting in a desert! on a slightly different note when it was the 50th anniverary of the dambusters raid there was a flypast over the ladybower dam which was used to practice on it was covered by the local news station (central) their reporter, marie ashby, watching 4 bulldogs fly over proudly said "here come 4 tucano SINGLE SEAT TRAINER!! aircraft. bad enough you might think but this was in front of richard todd,three 617 aircrew who were on the raid,modern day 617 aircrew and some other high ranking R.A.F. officers.i found it quite insulting that they sent someone who was more suited to "bubbles the cat stuck up a tree stories" and had obviously just been shown pictures of aircraft 10 minutes before the programme started. on the other hand the in film 633 squadron they actually bought about 9 mosquito,s of which 2 were destroyed as part of the plot, for real, they were actually non airworthy machines that were due to be scrapped

... Hey you all forgot to mention Top Gun - LOL
My favourites are
the cockpit scenes where you can see the ejector railing guide wheels - which are only visible when the ejection seat is OUT of the aircraft
and those Mig-28's

oh dear - 'nuff said

I wouldnt know the difference with some naval vessels if they shot a short vid clip on the screen that was different than the subject matter. Its not an interest of mine
Its all in the name of entertainment, unfortunately for the producers of such shows ,we believe in realism. I wouldnt have a clue about planes if not invloved in this hobby. I think if we saw mistakes in a drama or any TV show or movie it wouldnt rankle us as much as the "documentaries" which we rightfully assume should have real content.
We know the difference and should feel good about it. Then we should educate anyone who wants to listen and has a similar interest. Lets hope someone from these documentaries can get a little of this feedback and make more accurate films.
.

QUOTE: Originally posted by dkmacin The Dumbing down occurs not because of people like us who are accused of being "anal", it is because of the people like them who say, "so what?" after we try to tell them what is what. Or that usual response "whatever." Maybe it is because we sweat the small stuff and have that attention to detail gene? I still get razed because I pointed out the modern ships in the background of the movie Pearl Harbor. It didn't take anything away from the "love story", maybe I was the dumb one, I thought it was about Pearl Harbor! I read some where that in editing the makers thought the modern ships made the background look better. . .so much for seeking advice eh? Don

This post makes me thing about my signature line. Some director or other also said "god is in the details." That is one of the things that make a difference between a mediocre program, and a truly excellent one. I really love when I see that someone has gone the extra mile to include all the details for me. Even in entertainment, this can be vitally important, it's just that like one of you said, most people don't care.

If you have two programs, documentaries, movies, tv shows, whatever, that are exactly the same, except that one has all the attention to detail, and the other is just standard fare, people will be able to tell the difference in quality. Even if they can't quite put their finger on it, they would pick the detailed one over the average. This applies to just about everything, even models, show someone two models of the same plane, one hyperdetailed, the other just semi, people will always pick the hyperdetailed one, even though they might not be able to tell you why. The thing is, most people don't care and/or are too lazy to put that kind of work into anything, because putting details is work, you have to do it out of love.

madda

Pixilater
How about one of my favorite movies(really)"In Harms WaY". Near the end Kirk Douglas 'steals' a' Mitchell' to scout the oncoming Japanese fleet and he flies it from trhe copilots seat. That always brings a smile.

Nwilliams
insert snappy catch phrase here. I like that. When and if I ever get comfortable enough to start using a CP on my messages I'll use"I told you a million times,don't exaggerate"!

Teise