Biplane rigging question

I used regular old nylon fishing line (it was a dark gray color, not sure of exact thickness) on a 1/72 SOC Seagull. It looked fabulous!

The kit was molded to accept rigging and I used one long piece to do the entire wing area. I anchored the fish line at the proper points with CA and nipped off the bits of line that didn't belong.

I didn't try to paint it as I thought it might make rigging too 'fat'. Not sure it would take paint anyway.

HTH 

Got plenty of fishing line lying around (my other passion is fishing) but was curious as to what size diameter or in the case of fishing line, what lb. test. I'm thinking 3 or 2lb. Seems like 3lb. might be on the heavy side especially in that small of scale.  I used 6lb on a 1/32nd biplane and it turned out ok but that was only in my eyes and the thickness there probably was not correct. It looked right anyway so I went with it. I'd just like to be a little more accurate on this build. Thanks.

Hud

That is true....and a good point.

Perception is 99% of things. Study a lot of photos of rigged A/C....train your eye to the look of the wires. They always look very thin in relation to all else. Not being a rigging expert, my guess is the wires were at least 3/16ths to 1/4 inch diameter....that's something you can work out on a calculator.

....and remember.....photos give things a whole different look! 

Sheesh Phil! Nice plane!

I considered strings at one point too.....but took the lazy route with fish line. 

Most flying wires of the round type would be 1/8 or less on WW I airplanes, so you really can't go too small in 1/72, 1/8 scaled to 1/72 is just under .002 inches.  I've used 2 pound fishing line which is .005, but the smallest available is EZ Line from Bobes,

http://www.bobeshobbyhouse.com/ezl.html

Found out about it here on the forum.  It is .003 and I've heard it gets a bit smaller if you stretch it.

1" in 1/72 = 0.0138" a human hair measures approximately 0.0039 on the large size. 28 gauge wire (0.0126") would be close to 1" in 1/72, 39 gauge wire (0.00353") would be close to 1/4".

Personally I chose 1/72 for WW1 era aircraft so I was justified in not wiring them up, since in scale I think the wires would be pretty much invisible.

I could definately see the need for wiring 1/48 or 1/32 though.

EZ-LINE IS YOUR FRIEND!!!

Seriously, though, this is what I've been using to rig my Ilya Muromets for the last month.  It required a bit of dexterity, but is much easier to use, and smaller, than any fishing line you can pick up.

Any specific questions feel free to ask. (And thanks for letting me show my work off even more!) 

Wow! very nice work there Lucien. How much time do you think you have spent on the rigging? Is all that rigging for the wings seperate pieces or is it one long piece strung from one end to the other? Were there provisions ( holes/indentions) already made in the mold or did you have to make them, if any, yourself? I'm impressed to say the least. And thanks for the EZ-Line recommendation. I think I'll give it a try.

Hud

I stand by my method. In one sitting I make a ton of stretched sprue to a consistant thickness or diameter. There is no way on earth unless you can split human hairs into quarters that you'll match scale. Models just don't have everthing to scale, especially guy-wires. Models 'represent'. Sorry but it's a fact.

Take a fat, juicey sharpie or other permanent marker and pin the stretched sprue with it's tip and drag the sprue filament through. Use some quick drying glue to affix appropriate lenghts to the model. You don't have to get it very tight. Just get it reasonbly tight. Do the entire model and once it's rigged, take a hair drier on a medium heat setting and mild velocity and blow some warm air over the rigging. The warm air shrinks the filaments and tightens everything up.

hud wrote:

Wow! very nice work there Lucien. How much time do you think you have spent on the rigging? Is all that rigging for the wings seperate pieces or is it one long piece strung from one end to the other? Were there provisions ( holes/indentions) already made in the mold or did you have to make them, if any, yourself? I'm impressed to say the least. And thanks for the EZ-Line recommendation. I think I'll give it a try. Hud

Rigging is rather simple.  Before you start, determine where each line is and where it will go.  Then take a pin vise (one of those little drills) with your smallest diameter bit and drill intentations near each attachment point.  When it comes to those near struts get as close as you feel comfortable.

Do NOT drill all the way through the wing- you don't need to!  This is why I like this stuff the best. 

(Note- if you end up building biplanes with huge wingspans, to help prevent wing droopage some guys mix fishing line in with the stretchable line.  In this case you'll have to drill all the way through the bottom wing to tension the wires.  If you're just starting out though, don't worry about it.)

I usually then assemble the fuselage/bottom wings as a unit and the top wing as a unit.  Paint, decal, etc. each, then bring them together.   It's time to start rigging.

Each line is a single piece- that's the downside to this method.  It's a bit tedious.  But, anyway, select where the first line goes.  Put a TINY amount of superglue in the indent you drilled earlier.  Cut a small length of line and position one end in this hole and hit it with a bit of superglue accelerator.  Wait a few seconds (make sure it's fully dry) and then trim the line up until it's about two thirds the size of the gap you need to bridge.

This is where your three hands come into play.  Put a tiny amount of superglue in the OTHER indentation.  With your tweezers pull the line to the other hole (it stretches without much tension) and place it into it.  Hit THAT with accelerator (being careful not to move while it's curing), make sure it's dry by tugging on it a little, and then let go.

Congradulations!  You have a line!  With practice it's not difficult at all.  It just requires a bit of patience.  Rigging shouldn't be done in one night, though- stretch it out.  Enjoy it.  If you take your time, you will NOT be disappointed.

(Remember, this is just how I do it.  If you want to play around with using once piece instead of many, try it.  Figure out what's comfortable for you, and then go with it.)

Hope to see a biplane from you soon!  I have to say, the are addicting! 

trexx wrote:

I stand by my method. In one sitting I make a ton of stretched sprue to a consistant thickness or diameter. There is no way on earth unless you can split human hairs into quarters that you'll match scale. Models just don't have everthing to scale, especially guy-wires. Models 'represent'. Sorry but it's a fact. Take a fat, juicey sharpie or other permanent marker and pin the stretched sprue with it's tip and drag the sprue filament through.

I've posted this elsewhere, but it may help: 

You can see how my first rigging attempt turned out in this thread on the Glencoe MB-2 I built last year. The MB-2 is 1/74 scale, but it's still a large model. The wings are about 14 inches long.

That was my first rigging experience, and I didn't find it too difficult. I used "invisible thread" that I found in a fabric store. I find the smoke-colored thread looked a better than the clear thread. I followed the practice of drilling holes in the wings where the rigging lines had to go and then threading the lines through the holes. I drilled all the way through the bottom wing, but not the top wing. Pulling through the bottom really help make the lines tense enough.

Three tools really helped: a baseball cap I bought at a hardware store with two LED lights in the brim, needlenose tweezers, and superglue accelerator.

The links below really helped me learn how to rig:

WWI Biplane Aligning and Rigging
http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/aligningandriggingabiplanegp_1.htm

Using fuse wire (other types of wire could be used):
http://www.wwimodeler.com/esc/rig.html

Drilling holes and threading monofilament:
http://wwi.priswell.com/duras.htm

More on using monofilament:
http://www.wwi-models.org/misc/rigging.html

Rigging WW1 Aircraft
http://www.ww1.org.uk/rigging.htm

Having used stretched sprue, steel wire, and nylon sewing thread over the years, I've found that EZ Line (http://www.bobeshobbyhouse.com/ezl.html) is by far the easiest rigging material I've ever used. I've used it in combination with "Bob's Turnbuckles", http://www.bobsbuckles.co.uk/ . After drilling holes in the wings and fuselage for the turnbuckles, the buckles are glued in place and the wings are joined. Then the EZ Line is threaded through each turnbuckle eyelet, hit with a spot of superglue, and the excess trimmed. EZ Line starts out at .003 diameter, but thins as it stretches, making it suitable for both 1/48 and 1/72. Although it's described as a "flat" material, by the time it's stretched a bit, it's difficult to notice it's flat quality, which makes it suitable for early as well as later era biplanes.

Give it a try! (and no I don't work for Bobes Hobby House!)

 Lee

I'm in the middle of a rigging job using nylon monofilament.

 I'm using "invisible mending thread" from the sewing section of my wife's closet. It's tinted a gray color that I think looks okay as it is. It measures about .0055 inches. I bought some 2lb test fishing line at a sporting goods store and it measures about .006 inches but isn't tinted. Both are fine for 1/72. I don't know how much thinner 1lb test fishing line would be but I doubt it would be too small for 1/72.

How I'm installing it varies with the location. I try to drill an indentation to anchor one end and a through-hole at the other where I thread the line through and then weight it with a couple of hemostats to keep tension on it while I glue that end. I hold the model in a modeling vise at the angle that puts the best direction of "pull" on the lines.

I drilled all the holes and attached one end of each line to an anchor point before gluing on the top wing and struts. I taped off the loose ends of the lines to the wings to keep it managable. I don't think that technique would work with Lucien's Ilya Mourometz, that has way too many lines to keep neat! I've got a Roden Zeppelin Staaken in the stash, maybe I'll test out the theory...

Most of the through holes are close to struts so many of them got plugged when I glued the struts. I've been able to re-drill them from the opposite side pretty well.

I try to have the through holes on the bottom wing so they don't show as bad afterwards.

One thing about the nylon is that it is kind of stiff so if the hole is drilled perpendicular but the line leads out at an angle, there's a slight curve where the line attaches. You can minimize that by kind of bending the line right at the join with the tip of a file or something. You'll see what I mean when you try it.

I'll have pictures of it when I'm done in a week or so.

I also built a wooden jig to hold the wings aligned as the glue on the struts dries. I'll post pics of that to. It lead to a very strong structure and It's ajustible so I can use it on another model later.