Official Natural Metal Finish Group Build

Thunderbolt379 lookin good my friend that is gonna be one sweet F-84 when finished. Have you decided what finish you are going to use yet ?

Sorry I havent been around much, the flu I had went into my chest and its been pretty bad, but so far I have been very lucky as it put my younger brother and if you can believe this my Doc in the hospital. Of course the fires around here arent helping either, but I am feeling better and breathing a lot better now, and will be here more.

Hi all,

Made some progress on the F-84:

Gunsight glass installed:

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Windscreen installed:

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Canopy installed:

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Express Masks underway:

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And express Masks completed:

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The masks are good but not easy to line up, I think I'll have to use some Tamiya tape as well to even up the lines here and there, which will be tricky. Another point to watch out for, there's so much 'going on' in the forward fuselage of this kit that the tolerances are very close and the canopy took some pressure to get it to line up with everything. Clear Parts Cement was useless with either section, they simply fell off at first contact, so I fixed these in place with superglue. I've not noticed any fogging of the plastic so far, and the painted areas will lap up over the parts that would fog anyway.

The cockpit details are incompletely painted but frankly you can see a lot more in these photographs then through the canopy for real, and the 1:72nd scale parts are pretty much as small as my sight can make out with any certainty. The speckle of black on the gunsight base was virtually invisible to me until I saw the pictures (it was overspray from a black part sprayed further along the sprue -- I'll mask next time!)

Next I need to mask the wheel wells, intake, exhaust, pylon stubs and the locators for the landing lights in all the tank tips, plus mount the gear bay doors on card and tape, and I can start laying on some color.

Cheers,

Mike

Hi Randy -- re the Talons, basically I just tried a quick test shot and found there was no real way to tell whether the paint was properly stirred or not as the mixture was visibly opaque and stirring created a considerable amount of froth in the bottle. I decanted some paint and tried some light mist passes on some styrene stock, and found the plastic virtually repelled the paint -- it was as if there was no pigment in the carrier at all... My pressure might have been too high, the air may have been moving the paint on the surface rather than letting it stick.

To be fair, I've not read the tutorial yet! I'll do so and take another shot, the paint looks fabulous on the models at Hawkeye's site, so I'm sure it's just a matter of developing the knack. Still, the necessity of using the buffing powders while the paint is still faintly damp offers up some wrinkles it'll take thought to work around -- and planning too, for which shades to develop in what order on what parts of the skin, and allowing for what hand-holds on the job at any particular time.

For simplicity I might go with enamels on the F-84. She was supposed to be the Talon test piece, but it's more a case of needing to get some projects off the bench at the moment. I have rather a lot in progress and several more impending!

Cheers,

Mike

Hi Bill

"My assumption would be that you start at a corner and get the top and one side aligned, then trim the bottom and other side?"
you don't have to trim the excess until you have stuck down as much as you wish to stick down, there will be excess, but this is trimmed after you have stuck the foil down to the panel(s). I found it easier to line up the two panels, but alternately you may apply the foil, burnish to the panel edges, and then trim all four sides.

"can you glue the shiny side on in order to have dull panels?"
I had a little trouble with the glue not taking to the shiny side of the foil. Originally I wanted to finish the upper surfaces with dull side out, and the underneath shiny, to replicate the weathering and oxidation that is depicted in the photos I am working from. but in the end I found it easier to work with the shiny side out. It all looks pretty much the same once it is buffed anyway.

hope this is some help

Brett

Brett- thank you very much for responding, I really appreciate it. So of course my natural inclination is to jump off the deep end and do BMF on this build, but a more reasonable approach would be a smaller subject. Thank you again, and I'll probably do a little 1/72 fighter first.

Is it possible to trim the foil once on the model to final size, or do you need to get it right the first time. My assumption would be that you start at a corner and get the top and one side aligned, then trim the bottom and other side? Also, can you glue the shiny side on in order to have dull panels?

Cheers, Bill

Brett-That is indeed a great tutorial. Hopefully someday I will grow a pair and give it a shot

Randy- I used Alclad II Polished Aluminum for the whole thing minus the pit, wheel wells, and what you see on the fuse'.

Regards,

Jeff

Firesmacker Your build is on the front page, man I gotta tell ya we are devoloping a nice herd of Mustangs Can you let me know how you finished it I cant tell from the pictures if it was paint or foil.

Thunderbolt379 if memory serves me there is a trick to using Talon Paints. I think it wants to spray on at a low airpressure and misted on in several coats. Is that what you did or............. cause I was thinking of trying it also. I know there is a tutoral on hawkeyehobbies website or maybe you could ask him what went wrong.

Luftwoller hey jump in the water is great !!! Foiling isnt hard to do its just different and takes more time than painting, personally I find the end result worth the extra effort. I would make 2 sugestions though, first pick a simple airframe like a P-47 or maybe a Saber, something along those lines. Second, I havent personally used gold leaf adhesive but from what I have seen in the group, if its available to you I would recomend Microscale foil adhesive as it seems much more forgiving and easier to use. Just MHO. And besides you may just find you like getting bite on the backside

Dioramator Great tutoral !!!!! Thank you for taking the time to write it. 

Sherman1111 If there is still interest I would would be more than happy to extend the build.

I don't know about a tutorial, but I could give you a couple of tips if you are thinking of finishing your build in al-foil.

This is my first attempt at doing this, and this is what I have picked up so far.

I bought the tin of gold leaf adhesive from the art-shop, $20 (Au) for 8 fl oz.
Al-foil from the supermarket, the cheapo stuff is marginally thinner than the expensive brand, which makes it a little easier to form (and the embossing is shallower).

• I used a paper guillotine to cut the foil into various sizes and strips (makes a nice clean cut with a straight edge)
• It is important that the dull side of the foil is immaculately clean (untouched by skin) where the adhesive is to be applied to, wear cotton gloves when handling and cutting the foil prior to gluing (any contact with the skin will leave a residue that the adhesive will not stick to).
• Using a soft wide brush, apply the adhesive to the dull side of the foil. Make the layer as thin as humanly possible, (you will find you can get it so thin there are no brush strokes). *brush strokes if left in the adhesive will show up on the finished product. And strictly use only one coat of adhesive.
• If you find the adhesive backing away in an area, the foil has been touched and will not adhere (to that area) properly, ditch that piece of foil.
• I applied adhesive toabout 10 - 15 pieces of foil at a time, by the time I finished the last piece, the first ones were dry enough to use. The foil is now pressure sensitive.
• The model surface must also be immaculately clean, I wiped it down with alcohol, then dried it with a lint free rag.
• "The best way to show up a defect in a model is to paint it silver"... or cover it in foil. Be very particular to seams, gaps and runner tabs.
• Covering a group of, or individual panels; line up two of the foil edges with the rows of rivets, top and side (just past the panel edge), the rivet line will mask the edge line of the foil. Using a cotton tip slowly work the foil down. Then burnish the foil down with the edge of a toothpick (not the tip)
• Work across the center and then out to the edges of the panel, then the end of the panel, and finally into the panel line.
• Trim/ score the foil along the panel line, and remove excess foil by peeling away. (Don't burnish past the panel edge).
• When you get to the edge of the wings, pull tension on the foil, and trim it with a sharp blade, allow a little overlap. Burnish down using a finger or a cotton tip to about 2/3 the arc of the lead edge. Use a fine file to trim across the foil at the edge of the wing... and remove excess.
• On the other side of the wing overlap the existing foil (2/3 the arc of the lead edge) and trim to size with a blade and burnish down with a toothpick. (This foil edge will burnish down in a later step.)
• Curves, "a two dimensional medium being applied to a three dimensional object". Always start working the foil from the highest part of the surface when possible.
• Never allow the foil to burst from overstretching (the edge will crinkle), cut it to release pressure. A patch is easier to deal with than a crinkle edge.
• If hills start forming while pushing down the foil, push along into them (to flatten them out) with a toothpick
• Shallow depressions should be rolled from the outer edge toward the center with a cotton tip. (stretch the foil down)
• air trapped under the foil should be evacuated by piercing the foil, and working the air out of the hole.
• I found it easy to fill gaps in panels fitted after they had been foiled, by filling with water based fine wood filler, it can be shaped with your finger, and rubbed back with a damp cotton tip. Then apply a strip patch of foil over it once it has totally dried.
• Burnish with superfine steel wool 0000, (not the regular household stuff), in the direction of travel. Use it to blend any edge lines.
• When it's all together, give an all over buff with steelwool (wearing cotton gloves), and wipe it down with alcohol to get rid of any fingerprints and residue adhesive.

And that's all I am up to at this point in time.

Next step is to apply a coat of future, and lay down some decals, but that's another story.

Brett

Brett, fantastic looking foiling Sir. Ive always being frightened of working with that stuff but you guys are turning me round slowly. You all make it look easy. I know if i try it will bite me in the a$$. But maybe one day!!

Jeff, what a cracker of a build. Really a stunner. Beautifull.

Yey, Bondos here.

...Guy

dioramator wrote:

Hi bondoman, welcome to the group. I was thinking that model would look spectacular in foil finish. although you would certainly have your work cut out.

Bill

A bad Mustang will always look good, but I have yet to see a bad one here yet. As for the back Still no pain in the legs, but the lower back from L2 to S1 hurts all the time. I have yet to see an xray, but I have a feeling that my doctor completly redid all 4 operations. He wont say much right now. I start threepy next week with a MD this time instead of a theaperestWhen I see the X rays I willl know if he removed all the work from opereation 1 and he did tell me he removed the scar tissue on my spinal cord.He is also preping me for the fact that my working days are done. I spent 4 days in ICU with a spinal cord drain to keep preasure off of my spine so that it would heal.All the Human body is an amazing machine, it just blows my mind that the trama you can go through and recover so quickly. well sorry to kidnap the forum. I pickuped a 1:48 F-104 c I AM LOOKING FO THE AM parts and may try to do one more. I think we should run this build fo another year and try to get some more shinny planes on that front page. More later

jd

Hi Randy -- Yep, I'll be painting her. I meant to try Talon Acrylics but my test spray was very unfriendly, I find myself in unknown waters and might use old fashioned enamels for simplicity this time.

Jeff -- very metallic finish! She looks the part okay! I can sympathise on those stripes, my gut tells me to mask and spray them before applying the NMF, but stripes are a finish I have yet to get up the guts to take a shot at.

Cheers,

Mike

I'm calling this one done. After I took the pics I realized that I had forgotten the antenna post. I added that a few minutes ago.

Kermit- I went with the black after seeing pics of the real thing at the 361st FG website. The Aeromaster decal sheet showed olive drab but that was with only the rotor hub painted yellow. Every pic I found of a full yellow-nose showed the anti-glare as black.

As far as the decals, the invasion stripes are very thick. Like, soak for at least a minute thick. I probably used enough Micro-Sol to do a real 1:1 Mustang plus making small cuts and holes with a new #11 blade. That's as good as I can make them.

Enough stalling. Here she is.

Thanks for looking. As always, any comments or suggestions are welcome.

Regards,

Jeff

Thunderbolt379 Am defiantly keepin an eye on your build. Are you planning to use paint ?

Dioramator Beautiful foil work you have done there, couldnt find a boo boo anywhere. Thats gonna be one fine looking Mustang !

Sherman1111 Glad to have you back JD how is your back doing ??

Boy go away for a while and there is a lot of good progress made, looking good guys.......

jd

Brett -- spectacular! I'm impressed, she looks good! I'm especially impressed with the fit you acheived around the removable engine-bay panels, they have rather put me off tackling the kit for many years. I can't wait to see her finished,

Mike

Here's my WIP progress.

I've finished the foiling, just have a few touchups to do on a couple of uncovered seams, and then give it a buff with the steel wool.

I'll put the landing wheel doors on after the whole thing has been sprayed with future.

Here's my 10c

Brett

Hi all,

Quick WIP, main construction is now done on the Tamiya 1:72 Thunderjet:

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I'm particularly impressed with the self-keying alignment of the wings and tail. No filler is needed, the joints are pretty much as close as if they were simply panel lines. Less precise is the nose end where everything needs to draw together around the internal structures, I found myself shaping with file and sandpaper to get things to line up as they should. Hopefully the 1:48 version of the same plane will be an easier alignment in this area.

Otherwise, it's a very sweet build. Next up is the gunsight and canopy structures, followed by the Express Masks, mask the intake, exhaust and wheel wells, then it's into the paint shop.

Cheers,

Mike

You did the best you could firesmacker and it looks good from here. The yellow nose makes your model very interesting to see, as does the nose art text.

I take it you did not use any decal softeners to make the decals follow the curves of the wing roots? If not, i would suggest you carefully puncture your decals at those places with a fine needle and apply a generous amount of microsol or smt similar, possibly multiple coats untill your decals follow the curves smoothly.

Nevertheless, great build! Who doesn't like to see a stang...

A question on the side:

Did your painting instructions tell you to use that anthracite/ flat black colour as antiglare coat? Oh.... and are you planning to weather your kit? (exhaust marks and such?)

Richard

Got more done. I will never, use kit supplied invasion stripes again. Too much of a headache. I'll just take the time and spray them on in the future.

The landing gear and clear parts are done as well. After the paint dries, I will get to work on the prop. I hope to wrap this on up by the end of this weekend.

Thanks for looking. As always, an comments or suggestions are welcome.

Regards,

Jeff

Randy, glad you enjoyed it. I have that same Revell P-51B in my stash, picked it up about ten years ago. I looked at all the rivets and the displayable engine and figured I had a long way to go before I could do justice to it. I'm thinking that sanding back the rivets may be the best way to go, a scribing job, and really work the engine access panels carefully to get the closest fit, because almost universally, openable panels only look good open -- closed they just simply don't fit to the tolerances of the real thing.

It's all a learning experience, and I think I'll still be learning the day I build my last one! (May that be a couple fo hundred years from now -- it better be if I'm gonna get value out of this stash!)

Cheers,

Mike

Thunderbolt379 Thanks I did enjoy reading your blog, and I have had simular thoughts to what you wrote. I did get my hands on a 1/32 scale Revell P-51B with the thought of hey I can see this one and can go detail crazy, Was giddy as a school girl over the idea. Then came the reality check, after opening the box of course. Am I skilled enough to take this project on and do it justice ?? Not at this point in time, so it sits in my model closet awaiting the day I say ok I am ready.

I have made some headway on the P-38, its ready for the canopy at long last. After that a bit more foil work and shes ready for finishing up, painting, decals and fiddely stuff. I did try something new on this one and used foil from two differant manufactures. I got some cheapo stuff from the dollar store and noticed a slightly differant color so I spotted some of that on and do like the effect althou it is somewhat suttle, I hope is will show up in pictures. After the canopy is on and the foil is finished I will post some WIP pictures.

Oh I picked up a Highflight burner can for my F-104 build for 3 bucks on ebay, another problem solved

Randy -- that blog post just went up. I think it's a bit more tongue-in-cheek than the technical aspect you were hoping for, so I think I'll write a technique piece on working small as well!

Thanks for the kind words, BTW -- always glad to have my posts be useful!

I'm dressing joints on the F-84 at this point, fit of the fuselage is either endemic to the scale or Tamiya trapped rather a lot of stuff between those halves. No matter, I'll have the wings and tail on shortly. The wing joints are superb, that's a major plus.

Cheers,

Mike

Hi bondoman, welcome to the group.

I was thinking that model would look spectacular in foil finish. although you would certainly have your work cut out.

my current build is my first attempt at foiling, and (unfortunately) I am hooked, definately won't be my last.

will post some more WIP update pics shortly.... just a few more panels to go

Brett

Wonderful! I picked up the B-17C "Colin Kelley" today and am choppin' sprue. Here's the prototype. I'll build the B 307 as delivered to PAA, the one in the Smithsonian.

Here's the kit:

It's going to take a while, but you guys have already posted so much info it'll help a lot.

Bondoman I dont see why you cant enter that build Welcome to the shiney group. Sounds like an interesting build, althou I just cant picture what that would look like. Heck I'm not even too sure how to list it on the roster. I am looking forward to seeing it and following your build.

Thunderbolt379 I have been keeping an eye on your blog some interesting stuff you have been writing there. Been learning a thing or two also

EDIT Your build is on the roster Bondoman

Randy -- by all means. My blog is a due a new post any day now, I'll see if I can rustle up some photos and get that essay up next. It's not very technique-heavy, more a discussion of the merits of different scales, but interesting all the same.

Cheers,

Mike