Winter Warriors II - The Wintering!

   Well I got some more done with the SU but still no paint yet. The plan was to have a base coat down Sunday night but I didn't like my original set up for the stowage of the pioneer tools and the tow cable so I had to rethink it. After some trial and error I finally came up with something that I was happy with. And yes those are German tool clamps and tow cable so you probably know were I'm going with this.

  I guess the figure in the Tc also kinda gives away that when finished this will be a captured vehicle in the service of the Fatherland.

   Now I better get going on the painting since I want Dupes to be able to see this in person at Downeast Con on the 20th of this month.

Looking Sweet Panzerguy!!  paint should be interesting!

I'll see you at Downeastcon to..

Brutus – very nice vignette; looks good from here.

Panzerguy – Like what you have done, idea and construction. Copying some of your texturing techniques on my current build ;)

Steady work on mine, will post an update later this week with some WIP pics.

So thaaaaat's what Vance looks like...

Steve - think you'll have it done in time? Certainly would love to see it at the show.

Brutus - are these your final pics? If so, I'll update the first page. Nice job!

It is officially March. That means that 4 weeks from today, Winter Warriors II wraps up...I know, it sneaks up on you pretty quickly. Crank out those builds, fellas!

Yup, I've been positively identified. Although in the summer I'm much more likely to have a ball uniform on...

Hey gang, after a work-imposed break from modeling, I sat down at the bench again last night. Got a little work done on several projects - most important here though is a primer coat on the Storch after masking/protecting the open cabin door and the exposed engine. Yes, I'm using only the upper cowling so I can display the lower engine detail. They had to service these things at some point rigth?!

Primer question though... Tamiya "metal & plastic primer" from a rattle-can... Am I going to have any issues using acrylics over that stuff? Now I'm not sure if they're compatible. I've still got a good stash of MM enamels, I'm just trying to avoid using them in the airbrush due to the cleanup factor!

Vance

VanceCrozier: Hey Vance.. should be no problem at all.. Acrylics over enamels are fine.. sometimes the other way around ( enamels over acrylics) can give issues, especialy if not properly cured..

As for me.. got back to my bench after a while, did some small wash weathering on the M-10, and have started adding the stowage, hand rolled some tarps, etc and attached them last night..

Thanks for the info p38jl, I was pretty sure... but I didn't want to discover some crazy paint-peeling, off-gassing issue all on my own!! Can't wait to see the final "lived-in" M-10.

Quick question (from the airplane guy!) to any of the armour guys. What makes a tank-destroyer, well, a tank destroyer? Does the fixed gun equal a more powerful gun with armour rounds?

Vance: ,, well, I'm an airplane guy with armor knowledge.. lol.

Tank Destroyers,,,, well.. it depends on whose "doctrine" your following.

US Doctrine ,was hit em fast, hard, scoot away. Most US tank destroyers were upgunned from their standard tank brothers, M-10 had the 76 MM, M-36 90MM, Hellcat 76 MM, all were lighter armored than the main tanks, most were faster. The Hellcat can do over 45 MPH from what I remember..

Most German and Russian TD's were big gunned, heavy armored machines. not all, but most.. and it depends on where in the War you are, time wise... The Germans liked to mount big guns on refurbed chassis of battle worn tanks( rebuilt) They also built many purpose built TD's also, with heavy armor and big guns.. Most of these had no turret, they had a limited traverse mounted gun either mounted on a chassis, or built into a "box" like top..

Russians did the same on some, but also liked to build very big tanks with very big guns..

I'm sure others here have more and better info... ???...

I wouldn't necessarily call myself an 'armour guy' but I think doctrine is a huge factor as already pointed out. But also, a tank-destroyer has a very limited role on the battle field. Really, its sole purpose is to destroy tanks and, as far as I know, doesn't participate in, to a large degree, the same roles as regular battle tanks like infantry support and exploitation. Tank destroyers would, as far as doctrine is concerned, sit back and wait for an enemy armor break through and would address it accordingly. Which, as stated, led to them being light armored and speedy so as to respond quickly.

Otherwise, removing the turret enabled easier manufacturing, increased the size of the fighting compartment and allowed for more armor and a larger gun to be installed. This seems to be the route taken by both the Soviets and the Germans.

I think Oddman hit it with the doctrine part - tank destroyers were not used to support infantry actions. TD's did tend to be faster and lighter armored...not that I can figure out why you'd want lighter armor if you were going after other tanks?

First page is updated with final pics for Wirraway and Brutus. Keep em' coming, fellas!

My internet exile starts tomorrow at 5:30...either I'll end up doing the perv-park in the library lot or spend an awful lot of time at Denny's. Ugh. Hellooooo weight gain. Will try to check in as often as I can with my horrid dialup.

Vance – You can always put a Future coat between coats; I do enamel base-Future – oil washes (or acrylic wash) without  a problem. The key is to let the future/klear dry enough. I know some people have had problems with oil/dot filtering on top of enamels (makes sense, same thinner).  As long as I let the Future cure/dry long enough, not an issue for me (knock on sprue!).

The only addition I have to the “tank killer” information, is that logistics also dictates the role. What do you have left and can manufacture? Towards the end of WWII, Germany was using mobile “artillery” (STugs) as “tank killers”. Also do not forget the most formidable tank killer of all... infantry!  Just look at the number of tanks the Israelis lost during the Yom Kippur war due to infantry held weapons. Nowadays, I say the best tank killers are (still) infantry weapons, but you have airborne (hey, I mentioned a wingy thing!) threats (helos, ground attack planes), light vehicles with AT weapons, and (some may say best way), the MBT.

Dupes sorry you're taking a hit to your internet, that's no fun, no fun at all. Any how, good thing I finished this group build on time. I'm in the hospital right now (using their wireless - though Dupes, I wouldn't suggest hanging out in the maternity ward at your local hospital, that may be more creepy than hanging out at the library) Did I say maternity ward? I sure did! My wife just gave birth to a bouncing (and rather large) baby boy! Having two kids will certainly slow down the modeling but at least I can hope to share my interests with them in a few years!

Take care guys!

CONGRATS !!!!!

Here's the way it worked when mine were that small:

Prime a model

feed the baby

color coat the model

burp the baby

decals and touch up

change the baby

dot filters

feed the baby....you get the idea.

Brutus...that's a riot. Hehehhehe.

Oddman - congrats!

Looks like their has been quite a few finished builds(after checking out the first page) and they all look great. I wish I had time to catch up by reading the pages of posts I missed, unfortunately for me time has not been my friend lately.

That is why I haven't been around the forums lately. So much work with my architecture studies lately I barely have free-time on the weekends(I also had to spend a few all-nighters this week getting my projects ready for midterms.) That said I'm still around irregularly and still pop in the forums now and then(when I have time), hopefully I can back to the work bench during spring break . Though by then I'll have to start writing a 10 page paper for finals on a military history subject of my choice, which may or may not be fun if I can figure out a good topic to write about. (so many choices, so little time......any suggestions?)

Anyways, great to see the models progressing. Will be watching them progress, even if I'm more of a lurker for the next month or so.

mg.mikael: good luck on the studies!! as for a subject,, try Wake Island in the opening days of WW II .. very interesting story...

Update from me,,, tghe M-10 is painted,, now getting some snow..

Pics maybe later...

Okies... Here she is.. light snow squall blew through the workbench area...

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I tried to make the slushy, packed snow on  the running gear, look a bit dirty, but not to dirty as my referance pic , the tank looked fairly clean. Not alot of muddy, or dirty snow. Also tried to keep it in the areas slushy, track thrown snow would go.

I then spray the tank with a white glue/water/Tamiya thinner mix and lightly sifted the snow  on to the flat spots to simulate a light snow had fallen.. a dusting so to speak..

Well,,, my first whitewash, snow job in 25 yrs... ...

comments welcome...

Lookin' good P38, and I'm glad to see more snow on your armour than there is in my back yard, finally!!

Congrats to oddmanrush, another generation of modelers on the way!!

And a moment of silence for Dupes, who has lost his high-speed source... been there. I was doing some freelance work in between jobs for a few months with no high-speed at home... emailing client files meant hanging out in various "hotspot" parking lots! wearing sunglasses of course!

Got some time in on the Storch over the weekend. quick light sanding of the primer, double-checking all the seams etc. Overall coat of dark green, tape masks & finished up the splinter pattern with black-green, peeled off the masks to reveal the splinter-pattern camo. Underside grat still needs to be done. There are a couple of spots that need a quick touchup but I'm not going overboard as I have yet to do the whitewash. With a little luck I'll get progress pics up today too.

Later,

Very well executed P38!  Could you post your reference pic as a comparison?  Those are some big puffy snow flakes, great for snow ball fights and snow men!

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Here is my initial referance pic.. I also used the cover of Squadron's Us Tank Destroyers walk around, It appears to be the same tank, but from a differant angle.. I took a bit of artistic license with the fluffy snow as another referance pic the looks like a tank from the same outfit is sitting in a drift, looking out over a large field,, I was going for the look on that tank with the drifted snow.. but my snow was a bit bigger than I thought  and I've heard the Baking sode will turn yellow after a while.. so... I went for the light dusting of cold fluffy snow..

thanks for the compliments to!

Chris

Chris - looks good! Especially the packed snow part. Not sure about the scale of the individual flakes or not...will have to give it a closer look at tonight's meeting.

Three weeks left for anyone that isn't done yet (including myself!). I'm sure we'll see a bunch of builds make it in just under the wire.

dupes

Chris - looks good! Especially the packed snow part. Not sure about the scale of the individual flakes or not...will have to give it a closer look at tonight's meeting.

Three weeks left for anyone that isn't done yet (including myself!). I'm sure we'll see a bunch of builds make it in just under the wire.

Ya, the flakes looked kinda big,, ( i used model railroad snow from the Crack Bahn ).. but the more I look at it and let it settle in my mind..  the more it looks like large, crisp, fresh flakes.. they don't happen often.. but we've all seen them from time to time... so I stopped applying them after a few coats... figured it would be easier to add more later, then try to take some off...

Thanks for the kudos...

  First let me say that getting the flu once bites but getting it twice S@#KS!

   P38 well done on the M10. Being in an open top vehicle in winter must have been harsh!

  MG good luck on the studies and hope to see you back at the bench soon. As far as the paper goes maybe something about American P.O.W's in WWII. Heres a link to a POW website if your interested  http://www.merkki.com/

  I managed to get a base coat down before I was taken out by the bug on Saturday. I was in bed till yesterday afternoon and I felt good enough to see if I could get some work done. Surprisingly once I started working the better I began to feel. Started out with a primer coat of Italian drk brown then a base of afrika drk tan. that was followed by an light over spray of desert sand.

Today I'll get the future coat on and the decals.

Hey guys, thanks for the congratulations and well wishes! I'm trying to maintain some contact here in between bottle feedings. Chris, the M10 looks great. The snow does look a little large but convincing and would probably look more so if you put it on a nice snowy base.

panzerguy

  I managed to get a base coat down before I was taken out by the bug on Saturday. I was in bed till yesterday afternoon and I felt good enough to see if I could get some work done. Surprisingly once I started working the better I began to feel. Started out with a primer coat of Italian drk brown then a base of afrika drk tan. that was followed by an light over spray of desert sand.

Today I'll get the future coat on and the decals.

I love watching other people build armour!!! I know, I have one sitting in the stash, I'll get it out at some point... maybe next Winter Warriors...

OK, I'm overdue with my updatpics, but I decided to get set up on Photobucket. (My company is moving webservers, which I think may destroy my previously posted links. I guess I could go back & edit them to the new links? There really aren't that many to deal with.) Anyway, three more progress pics. Hoping to get her flipped over tonight or tomorrow for the underside blue, followed by a coat of future & decals...

As stated before, there were a couple of touchups needed (actually done last night), specifically the spot where my thumb & fingers "masked" the paint coverage... hey, I had to hold the thing somehow

All the support pieces for the landing gear struts have to be added after decalling, so they are being painted off the airframe & added, very carefully, afterwards! What do you think about weathering guys? My main goal at this point is to have the contrast of the splinter pattern showing through the final colour. I'm leaning towards highlighting only a few main panel lines prior to adding the whitewash, then doing most of the weathering once the whitewash is finished.

I've also picked up one of the Tamiya weathering powder kits that includes white, making me think I want to airbush only a base coat & then do as much as I can with the weathering powders to give it a more field-applied look.

Let the discussion begin!!

Vance

oddmanrush

Hey guys, thanks for the congratulations and well wishes! I'm trying to maintain some contact here in between bottle feedings. Chris, the M10 looks great. The snow does look a little large but convincing and would probably look more so if you put it on a nice snowy base.

thanks Oddmanrush, It does look big,, but if you think of those early morning snowy days,, crisp cold air.. and those big fluffy flakes...

I may still put it on a base.. still debating...

Vance:  Looking good to.. I like it

Panzerguy, that is some amazing scratch work.

Hey guys,

Just wanted to update y'all...  I've made some good progress on the Schutzenpanzer.  Spent some time adding detail to the troop ramp last night.

Started with this:

Ended with this:

If you want some more pics of the process, you can take a look at my WIP in the armor thread:

/forums/t/125935.aspx

I just didn't see much sense in repeating everything I said there in here...

So something was missing...I added an oil wash to the uniforms, and some snow all around. NOW it's done, thanks for allowing my OCD...