Mighty 8th GB 1-Nov-2010 - 31-Oct-2011

I am no expert on US markings, but from what i can tell, certain FG's had certain colours. But not all FG's did it, just as not all BG's had coloured tails. I know Bodney used Blue noses, and there was a Yellow nosed FG and of course Green for Wretham. Not sure about any others.

I guess buying loads of AM for a 5euro kit is a bit silly. But i am sure you can do a nice job on it.

Bish

I am no expert on US markings, but from what i can tell, certain FG's had certain colours. But not all FG's did it, just as not all BG's had coloured tails. I know Bodney used Blue noses, and there was a Yellow nosed FG and of course Green for Wretham. Not sure about any others.

I guess buying loads of AM for a 5euro kit is a bit silly. But i am sure you can do a nice job on it.

The 4th had red noses, I know that much. The 355th had white spinners, but cowl bands and rudders - at least usually - corresponded to different squadrons in the group. So the 354th Fighter Squadron would have white spinner + red cowl band (back to start of exhaust). The odd duck out is Hank Brown's Hun Hunter ~ Texas, which had a white cowl band on both his -B and -D. 

does seem to be some variety between Groups as to how they were marked. I know the Bodney Stangs had different coloured tails for each FS. Most of these colour schemes seem to only have been applied to P-51's and from what i can tell they didn't seem to be applied to the P-47's many of these groups used befopre switching.

This is according to Roger Freeman, The Mighty Eighth: 359 Fighter Group carried the swept-back green nose on P-51's from late 1944.  Before that, P-51's carried a green spinner and a 12 inch band behind it on the engine cowl. 

When they were earlier equipped with P-47's, they used a green band (24 inches) around the front of the engine cowling, from late March 1944.

Rudder colors (colours) further specified the squadrons from November 1944:  368 FS=yellow; 369 FS=red; 370 FS=dark blue.  Flight leaders received stripes on fin filet in flight colors, winter 44/45.

By V-E day, some 368 FS craft added a yellow spiral on the green spinner 

Thanks checkmate. Think i need to do some more reading on US aircraft. It seem that the US, like the Germans, had systems that changed a few times and were not always straight forward. And certainly more interesting than the RAF.

Roger Freeman's series of Mighty Eighth books used to be considered the standard, at least some thirty years ago.  The first, The Mighty Eighth, has loads of color profiles in the back, followed by a narrative paragraph describing the markings for each BG and FG in the 8th.  It's very useful for determing how wide various bands and i.d. stripes were. 

Eventually, Mr. F. put out The Mighty Eighth War Diary, The Mighty Eighth War Manual, The Mighty Eighty in Colour (all colour photographs), The Mighty Eighth:  Warpaint and Heraldry, and The Mighty Eighth in Art (paintings).  They've been an invaluable source over the years.

Despite the colorful nature of the 8th's markings, I think the RAF A and B schemes (especially for Battle of Britain era Spitfires and Hurricanes) are about the classiest around yet.  

Thanks for those sources, i think i will have to expand my libary a bit more.

Well, i have made a start last night and am just popping by to show my progress.

This is what i got for an IP:

Also the seat wasn't to my liking. In the next pic you see the seat as provided on the right side. Also this kit does not provide for a control column... Going through the spares box i found some replacements as seen to the left:

Doing some painting and gluing i came up with this. Unfortunately i did not have a correct P51 IP decal but i did have one for a P40... Will have to do. The pit floor was painted in acrylic ochre and i have tried to give it a bit of a wood grain effect with a bit of artists oilpaint:

Next i am doing some sidewall painting and the whole lot can come together

Richard

See what you mean about that interiour and seat. That IP decal may not be for the P-51, but it makes it look a hell of alot better. I do like what you have done with the wooden floor. I tried doing that on the desk and ammo boxed in the front of my B-17, but i used an oil wash and it didn't look right. Did you use a wash or straight oil paint. Thats the sort of look i am looking for.

Bish,

Thanks for the comment!

Funny you should mention the floor as it was a bit of a first for me too. Like i said i painted an acrylic base coat. After that dried i used burnt umber oil paint straight out of the tube and dotted/ smeared it on the floor with a fine brush in a random fashion.

I then dipped the brush in mineral spirit, dotted that on the floor so that it was wet, not soaked. Next step was to streak the brush up and down the part, cleaning and drying it after a few streaks so the oil paint came off in a controlled fashion. Simple as that. If i can do it.... It took me two attempts to be honest as the first time over i tried to use a bigger stiff brush. It made the floor too wet so the oil paint came off after two streaks

Richard

Probably overkill for a 72nd fighter pit, but here's how I did wood grain in my Pup:

http://doogsmodels.com/2011/03/31/wingnut-wings-sopwith-pup-build-report-1-with-the-grain/

IMO it's the overcoat of Tamiya Clear Orange/Yellow that really sells it. 

Thanks Richard. I wasn't happy with the wash method so had removed it and thought about trying straight oil paint. I will give that a try tomorrow night.

Doogs,

Absolutely lovely wood grain effect! I will certainly give the clear orange touch afterwards a go next time the subject appears on my bench

Well,...

What appeared to look like a fun and cheap low part count "quickie" turns out to be demanding more attention than i had hoped for:

Richard

Doogs, sorry, i missed that earlier post. That is a lovely finish you got, looks just like vanished wood.

But do you think you would get that sort of finish from mass produced WW2 aircraft. That's the sort of finish you get on old fashioned hand built cars, and the guys that built these would be the same one who built WW1 aircraft. But again, its a lovely finish.

Richard, thats coming along quickly, but ye, alot of work on those wing joints. A couple of little sink marks there as well.

Bish

Doogs, sorry, i missed that earlier post. That is a lovely finish you got, looks just like vanished wood.

But do you think you would get that sort of finish from mass produced WW2 aircraft. That's the sort of finish you get on old fashioned hand built cars, and the guys that built these would be the same one who built WW1 aircraft. But again, its a lovely finish.

Yeah, I agree. I think where I'd change would be using flat varnish rather than gloss after the clear orange/yellow step. No way a P-51 floor would be that shiny, even brand new (since it was just plywood...)

Nice tip, i will try it out on a spare part before i do the parts in the B-17, see how it comes out.

kermit

Hey Richard, do you have any other views of the underside? I'm typically not a big stickler for 100% accuracy, but wow, I'm pretty sure that thing's missing the radiator exhaust. And that whole lower fuselage loses that distinctive kink from the exhaust to the tailwheel (though the latter may be an effect of the angle of the photo).

Doogs,

Well,....:

You are correct about the radiator exhaust... will have to fashion one of evergreen. Also the radio is missing and im pretty sure i can find a thing or two more before i am done with it...

When i bought it, i was hoping to have one of the new revell molds in my hands like their excellent P47D and GO229 in the same scale, based on the fact that the kit entered their website somewhere last year ish... Turns out to be a repop. Also the riveting is completely made up.

The only thing going for it is the decals, the price and the fact that it can be recognised as a P51... Nevertheless i am going to see this one through, im a bit stubborn like that

Richard

Thats one thing about kits that does me sometimes. Its hard to tell what are new kits, re-issues or even re-issues of someone elses kit. And the kit numbers can't always be relied on.

Well not much of an update but I haven't posted any pics in awhile.  The P-51 is at about the same stage as the P-47.  I had to strip the yellow since it was a little thick and was showing under other colors, so I'll shoot the Alclad first and then do the yellow last.  I'm gonna be doing ALOT of painting this week

It's starting to look like a Jug and I will hopefully have the painting done by th end of this week

red - I like your idea of putting the carpet monster right there on the bench. Maybe including it in the action keeps it from getting all resentful and eating parts?

For the 4th, I'm focusing exclusively on the one American subject on the bench (well, the Spit I'm building is a USAAF Spit, but still). The cockpit got its oil bath last night, and it's been tacked into the fuselage. Hoping to glue the halves together tonight and (fingers crossed) get around to the guns.

Lol that is a good idea.  I don't work on that bench but I do keep a piece of carpet  on the one I do use ....mainly just keep clear pieces  on it

Woot! I did it! Goodbye nasty kit nubs, hello metal blast tubes!

Some great work guys. The P-47 is looking very nice red, be great to see some paint on her.

Great job on those blast tubes Doogs.

Things are picking up against nicely now.

jbrady

Bish: Put me down for one of those Beechcraft. I'll get squadron and station to you as soon as I do a little research.

J are you still planning on building this. I was just editing the front page, takeing off names of peeps who have had to drop out. And i noticed i hadn't added this to your list.

My P-51B should probably go, too. I have no idea what's on my build radar after this current trifecta, but almost certainly not another 'Stang. 

Unless I break down and pre-order a certain glorious 1/32 specimen...

Opps, sorry red, will sort that. I was just deleting the names of guys who had to drop out. Then i can start messageing people to see if they can are still able to do their builds.

Ok,...

Going to make this official... This kit is without any doubt in my mind whatsoever THE worst kit i have ever had the misfortune of spending money on and i can tell you gentlemen i have had a few in my hands that were pretty nasty....

No control stick, incorrect IP, no radio set, no radiator exhaust, wrong riveting, wrong prop, wrong dimensions, oversized and ridiculously thick, oversized canopy(in one piece mind you)..... the list goes on and on...

But i can tell you i have tried my best to overcome the most obviious defects in this kit by adding the stick, exhaust, radio set and those v shaped thingies that go on landing gear legs. Also  filled and sanded to my hearts content on this one. Oh and did i mention the vast amounts of flash on each and every part? In some cases i had to more or less cut out the part from a lump of styrene.... Compared to how it was this canopy actually looks good to me

Sorry about the rant guys but i just had to speak out to people who share my hobby.... To be honest this kit is so ridiculous that i am having good laughs working on it

Anyways,... i am more or less ready to paint this thing...WIP's soon gents!

Richard

Richard,

Got to commend you on your sticktoitiveness.  I probably would've binned that sucker a long time ago (actually probably would've smashed it with the ban hammer so it never graced my table again).  At least it will look (somewhat) like a Mustang when you're done with it.  I think you've earned yourself a nice vintage Monogram kit to build after this one.