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Blitzkrieg in the West (France 1940) Sept. 18 2011 - March 1 2012

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  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Rain USA, Vancouver WA
Posted by tigerman on Wednesday, August 31, 2011 8:52 PM

william carls

Hi Eric : )

For the Char, you can't just pick any camo pattern and the put a name and number on it.

There are 10 distinct patterns and 1 solid color to choose from ( some chars from the 28th bccr were solid gray)

When the char was delivered to its' battalion, it was christened with a distinct ,unique name that no other char would have.. and... you have to figure if it was an early model with narrow fenders and turned down type exhaust system or a little later model with wider fenders and the longer straight exhaust....and all details have to match and .. you need decals or dry transfers for your choice.

For me its not really a question of pattern, I want to build something I find aesthetically pleasing to my eye and accurate.  

Last night I thought I had my mind made up with 'BOURRESQUE'.... the decals come with the kit , but after reading Andys post, the 'BOURRESQUE' is one of the most commonly done models so I am doing a re-think, and going over my options and budget for this build.... Hey I could surprise every body and do beaute char( I hope thats the correct word.. I am talking about a German captured one)... they used and converted MANY captured vehicles.

To complicate matters worse, I was talking to Terry last night,and between the 2 of us we can't figure out if we agree on building the same model or not.. LOL... but we have plenty of time .. 2 weeks and a few days till we start building.. for me , that will be where most of my time will be spent.. there is about a zillion rivets to addCrying

I gotta tell ya, I am loving the research part. I think I have spent at least a good part of the evening, every evening on the internet reading and down loading info.

Man , I bet ya didn't expect that long of an answer to 'Have you picked your camo pattern'...LOLTime

how you doing on yours?... tell me every thing !

talk to ya soon,

treadCool

Wow. You've become a bit of an expert. You have a high learning curve. Yes

Not much to report on my itsy-bitsy tank. I'm still undecided on a camo for it. trying to finish my Pz IV. Should be done by the weekend. Beer

   http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/wing_nut_5o/PANZERJAGERGB.jpg

 Eric 

  • Member since
    April 2009
  • From: Carmel, IN
Posted by deafpanzer on Wednesday, August 31, 2011 9:36 PM

Tread- Awesome!  I am really very flexible... I have been re-thinking abouyt 'Bourresque' too. LOL!  Why?  I found Bill Plunk's thread at Armorama when I googled and I really liked the camo scheme and decals from Echelon that Bill mentioned recently.  Check it out...

http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=1418

Now we have proof that Bill built Allied armors too!  Wink

I am really looking forward to this GB.  First I need to finish my Panzer IV then build StuG for my Pz III GB before I can join you guys.

 

Andy

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • From: South of france
Posted by Vit13 on Thursday, September 1, 2011 1:08 AM

Hello Guys ,

be careful the name is not BOURRESQUE but BOURRASQUE  (number 257 ) .

Toast

 

 

 

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Rain USA, Vancouver WA
Posted by tigerman on Thursday, September 1, 2011 1:57 AM

So, when are you going to join us Vit13? What is your real name?

 

   http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/wing_nut_5o/PANZERJAGERGB.jpg

 Eric 

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • From: South of france
Posted by Vit13 on Thursday, September 1, 2011 3:21 AM

hello ,

well i think jump in this Gb . i don't make my choice Stick out tongue

Maybe a caudron 714  or a breguet 693 or an other. It will be a plane for me.

I'm a new beginner my level is very low ...........sorry  Wink

Toast

 

ps: My first name is Jean-christophe , you could be use Jc .

 

 

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Melbourne, Australia
Posted by darson on Thursday, September 1, 2011 7:50 AM

Welcome to the build Jc and don't worry about skill level, these builds are about sharing your build with the group and having fun, so relax and enjoy.

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • From: South of france
Posted by Vit13 on Thursday, September 1, 2011 8:00 AM

darson

Welcome to the build Jc and don't worry about skill level, these builds are about sharing your build with the group and having fun, so relax and enjoy.

Thanks so much Darren .

Jc

 

 

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Thursday, September 1, 2011 8:46 AM

Hmmm, I was thinking of doing 'VERCINGETORIX' for my Char B just because I like the camo pattern. But gee those Echelon decals look really good.

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Allentown, PA
Posted by BaBill212 on Thursday, September 1, 2011 9:39 AM

Jc,,    I have to echo darson,, the builds are about "fun". All skill levels are present amongst the participants.

Join in - Have Fun!

 

Bill

Enjoy the ride!

 

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • From: South of france
Posted by Vit13 on Thursday, September 1, 2011 10:19 AM

BaBill212

Jc,,    I have to echo darson,, the builds are about "fun". All skill levels are present amongst the participants.

Join in - Have Fun!

 

Bill

Bonjour Bill ,

thanks so much for this message .

Jc

 

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • From: South of france
Posted by Vit13 on Thursday, September 1, 2011 10:22 AM

Gamera

Hmmm, I was thinking of doing 'VERCINGETORIX' for my Char B just because I like the camo pattern. But gee those Echelon decals look really good.

 

Hello

be careful two Vercingetorix exists .  

number 426  with the 47 BCC

number 481 with the 46 BCC

Jc

Toast

 

 

  • Member since
    April 2009
  • From: Carmel, IN
Posted by deafpanzer on Thursday, September 1, 2011 10:23 AM

darson

Welcome to the build Jc and don't worry about skill level, these builds are about sharing your build with the group and having fun, so relax and enjoy.

JC,

I agree with Darson's comment!  GB is a great place to have fun and learn.  We can help you improve your modeling skill and you can help us with your excellent knowledge on French armor and wings.  Its win-win situation for everybody here...

Andy

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Thursday, September 1, 2011 11:14 AM

Andy,

I've got a "cleaner" thread version up on my site as well that might be easier for folks to read through vs. the Armorama one:

http://www.bpmodels.net/Model/Album/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9

And yes I do have some "Allied" skeletons in the closet if you dig deep enough! Big Smile

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Rain USA, Vancouver WA
Posted by tigerman on Thursday, September 1, 2011 1:23 PM

Vit13

hello ,

well i think jump in this Gb . i don't make my choice Stick out tongue

Maybe a caudron 714  or a breguet 693 or an other. It will be a plane for me.

I'm a new beginner my level is very low ...........sorry  Wink

Toast

 

ps: My first name is Jean-christophe , you could be use Jc .

 

 

Pleasure to meet you Jean and welcome to our GB. 

Let me know which is your choice and the scale and manufacturer, so I can update the first page. 

   http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/wing_nut_5o/PANZERJAGERGB.jpg

 Eric 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Thursday, September 1, 2011 2:31 PM

Vit13

 Gamera:

Hmmm, I was thinking of doing 'VERCINGETORIX' for my Char B just because I like the camo pattern. But gee those Echelon decals look really good.

 

 

Hello

be careful two Vercingetorix exists .  

number 426  with the 47 BCC

number 481 with the 46 BCC

Jc

Toast

 

 

Ouch, thanks JC, I was going with the one that came on the Tamiya decal sheet. I'll have to check when I get home which one this is. Thanks for saving me from a lot of confusion.

And welcome to the GB, this is going to be great fun! Welcome Sign

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: beacon falls , Ct.
Posted by treadwell on Thursday, September 1, 2011 4:30 PM

Vit13

Hello Guys ,

be careful the name is not BOURRESQUE but BOURRASQUE  (number 257 ) .

Toast

 

 

 

Hello Jean-christophe : )

uh.. I purposely miss spelled BOURRASQUE to see if you guys would catch my intentional mistake ?

you do believe me don't you?Embarrassed

Nice to have you on board in this GB !

treadCool 

   

 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: beacon falls , Ct.
Posted by treadwell on Thursday, September 1, 2011 6:15 PM

Gamera

Hmmm, I was thinking of doing 'VERCINGETORIX' for my Char B just because I like the camo pattern. But gee those Echelon decals look really good.

Hi Gamera : )

some how I missed that you were also doing a Char B1 bis.. sorry man.. I am looking at 'Char francais' at 

VERCINGETORIX ,but I can't tell what camo pattern from  the B&W photos... which pattern is it?

So that is 4 guys doing a Char B1 bis : Andy,Gamera,Terry and Tread... wow I think thats cool... we will get a good variety of the tank and that mimics real life because there are SO MANY camo patterns and names to choose from.

this GB just keeps gettin better!

treadCool

P.S..... duh... I just figured out that the camo pattern and decals are included in the kit....sometimes I work to hard... LOL

   

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Friday, September 2, 2011 8:36 AM

Tread, it's pretty cool to see four of us working on the same kit, since I'll be moving the slowest I can  follow and learn from everyone else Wink

Yeah, I'm just going with a good old out-of-box build here, been working with a bunch of PE and I need a simple build. I have had some excellent results from masking with Silly Putty and figure it will work great with the complex camo pattern on this Char B1.

Cliff

 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • From: South of france
Posted by Vit13 on Friday, September 2, 2011 12:46 PM

william carls

 

 Vit13:

 

Hello Guys ,

be careful the name is not BOURRESQUE but BOURRASQUE  (number 257 ) .

Toast

 

 

 

 

 

Hello Jean-christophe : )

uh.. I purposely miss spelled BOURRASQUE to see if you guys would catch my intentional mistake ?

you do believe me don't you?Embarrassed

Nice to have you on board in this GB !

treadCool 

Hello tread ,

well i can't tell you something , because my bad english Stick out tongue

LOL

thanks All of you guys to the welcome.Toast

 

Jc

 

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: 41 Degrees 52.4 minutes North; 72 Degrees 7.3 minutes West
Posted by bbrowniii on Friday, September 2, 2011 3:08 PM

Hi guys

Just got power back after Irene, so I'm trying to catch up on some of my threads.

JC, welcome to the GB. You, sir, seem to have a great deal of information on French armor. Great to have you in the GB.

After all this Char I B talk going on for the last several days, I'm feeling inadequate with my piddly ol' SdKfz 222! Stick out tongue  Ahh, well, I'll live vacariously through all of you!

What are we, two and a half weeks out??

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing' - Edmund Burke (1770 ??)

 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: beacon falls , Ct.
Posted by treadwell on Friday, September 2, 2011 3:46 PM

Hey bbrownii : )

Glad you got your wattage  flowing  again!... I'll bet that is a relief few people understand.

Personally I think the SdKfz 222 is a VERY cool vehicle... and with the PE  hatchwork they look awesome!

It will be 2 weeks to go on Sunday !.... I made my wife hide my kit until thenWhistling

ttreadCool

   

 

  • Member since
    April 2009
  • From: Carmel, IN
Posted by deafpanzer on Friday, September 2, 2011 7:35 PM

Boyd, welcome back!  Please don't feel bad about doing sdKfz 222... you are really doing us a favor because we need easy German targets.  I want to show the world that we French can win a battle!  Stick out tongue

 

 

Andy

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • From: South of france
Posted by Vit13 on Saturday, September 3, 2011 5:01 AM

deafpanzer

 .  I want to show the world that we French can win a battle!  Stick out tongue

 

 

 

Big Smile We have a bad reputation for that , i know Stick out tongue

  • Member since
    April 2009
  • From: Carmel, IN
Posted by deafpanzer on Saturday, September 3, 2011 8:37 AM

JC, no need to be concerned... French reputation just went up a notch after a victory in Libya recently.  This is going to be fun GB... off to camping in middle of the heat wave. Tongue Tied

Andy

  • Member since
    October 2009
Posted by PANZERWAFFE on Saturday, September 3, 2011 10:11 AM

French reputation is bad as we all know.  I am guilty of saying this from time to time also but one must give credit where credit is due.  Frances problem along with he British and other countries was that they were trying to fight a defensive war!  If WWII was played out as a repeat of WWI the French and probably Czechoslovakia had a HIGH chance of stopping and defeating the Germans at the very begining.  The French tactics layed in the Maginot Line and all other forces were defensive in nature supporting each other in that role: Infantry supporting the Maginot Line, Tanks supporting the infantry with trenches and fortifications in mind, Aircraft and artiliary firing at and behind the front line (WWI)  In this scenario the French were unbeatable!  The Czech's had the same French designed defense fortifications and excellent armor and armies being also almost unbeatable, or at a heavy price to the enemy, in a defensive war.  During this time the British were just as guilty of useing the incorrect defensive tactics.  When the BEF arrived they built pill-boxes and dug trenches along the Franco-Belgian border and prepared for a defensive war.  This was the main reason BLITZKRIEG was invented, to bypass heavy defense positions.  So as a whole, the world was at fault with the exception of the Germans of this defense war strategy. 

Giving the French credit!  You have to!  When the bulk of the allied forces fell back to Dunkirk it was primarly the French infantry and armored forces that fought furiously in the rear guard actions thus holding back powerful German forces which would have otherwise have been free to attack Dunkirk.  These German forces never reached the sea!  Unfortunately most of these French forces were captured after the evacuation of Dunkirk and killed or put into prison camps.  Thier efforts played a huge part in "Operation Dynamo, the evacuation of Dunkirk"  and can be largly credited with saving the BEF and other forces from destruction and eliminating the British from the war.

JC welcome to the GB!  Nice to have you and your input!  Thanks for all of the great information you have provided.

Rob

  • Member since
    October 2009
Posted by PANZERWAFFE on Saturday, September 3, 2011 10:34 AM

BOYD - Good to hear all is well again!  With all of the armor being built think it will be nice to see some soft skined vehicles.  The 222 will be fun to watch build up!

TREAD - Does this mean in two weeks you will hide your wife and work on nothing but the B1? Confused

Rob

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • From: South of france
Posted by Vit13 on Saturday, September 3, 2011 10:40 AM

I agree with that Rob.

The french forgiven to evolute with their strategy and military force.

Many planes were outclassed in the beginning of the confilct. French commission went in USA to buy

planes (curtiss h75 , P-38 , wildcat etc........)

i don't forget  the sacrifice of the Armée de l'air . Many germans planes will be not there to, in some months,

the battle of britain .

 

 

  • Member since
    March 2006
  • From: Right Side of a Left State
Posted by Shellback on Saturday, September 3, 2011 11:54 AM

Here's to our French allies !!! ToastDrinksBeer

We all know the USA cant be put on a pedestal ! Speaking as a Vietnam vet here .

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Nashville, TN area
Posted by bobbaily on Saturday, September 3, 2011 2:09 PM

PANZERWAFFE

French reputation is bad as we all know.  I am guilty of saying this from time to time also but one must give credit where credit is due.  Frances problem along with he British and other countries was that they were trying to fight a defensive war!  If WWII was played out as a repeat of WWI the French and probably Czechoslovakia had a HIGH chance of stopping and defeating the Germans at the very begining.  The French tactics layed in the Maginot Line and all other forces were defensive in nature supporting each other in that role: Infantry supporting the Maginot Line, Tanks supporting the infantry with trenches and fortifications in mind, Aircraft and artiliary firing at and behind the front line (WWI)  In this scenario the French were unbeatable!  The Czech's had the same French designed defense fortifications and excellent armor and armies being also almost unbeatable, or at a heavy price to the enemy, in a defensive war.  During this time the British were just as guilty of useing the incorrect defensive tactics.  When the BEF arrived they built pill-boxes and dug trenches along the Franco-Belgian border and prepared for a defensive war.  This was the main reason BLITZKRIEG was invented, to bypass heavy defense positions.  So as a whole, the world was at fault with the exception of the Germans of this defense war strategy. 

Giving the French credit!  You have to!  When the bulk of the allied forces fell back to Dunkirk it was primarly the French infantry and armored forces that fought furiously in the rear guard actions thus holding back powerful German forces which would have otherwise have been free to attack Dunkirk.  These German forces never reached the sea!  Unfortunately most of these French forces were captured after the evacuation of Dunkirk and killed or put into prison camps.  Thier efforts played a huge part in "Operation Dynamo, the evacuation of Dunkirk"  and can be largly credited with saving the BEF and other forces from destruction and eliminating the British from the war.

JC welcome to the GB!  Nice to have you and your input!  Thanks for all of the great information you have provided.

And don't forget the heroics of the French underground & citizens who at great risk saved many of allied airmen from POW camps and/or death.

Bob

 

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Melbourne, Australia
Posted by darson on Saturday, September 3, 2011 8:15 PM

PANZERWAFFE

French reputation is bad as we all know.  I am guilty of saying this from time to time also but one must give credit where credit is due.  Frances problem along with he British and other countries was that they were trying to fight a defensive war!  If WWII was played out as a repeat of WWI the French and probably Czechoslovakia had a HIGH chance of stopping and defeating the Germans at the very begining.  The French tactics layed in the Maginot Line and all other forces were defensive in nature supporting each other in that role: Infantry supporting the Maginot Line, Tanks supporting the infantry with trenches and fortifications in mind, Aircraft and artiliary firing at and behind the front line (WWI)  In this scenario the French were unbeatable!  The Czech's had the same French designed defense fortifications and excellent armor and armies being also almost unbeatable, or at a heavy price to the enemy, in a defensive war.  During this time the British were just as guilty of useing the incorrect defensive tactics.  When the BEF arrived they built pill-boxes and dug trenches along the Franco-Belgian border and prepared for a defensive war.  This was the main reason BLITZKRIEG was invented, to bypass heavy defense positions.  So as a whole, the world was at fault with the exception of the Germans of this defense war strategy. 

Giving the French credit!  You have to!  When the bulk of the allied forces fell back to Dunkirk it was primarly the French infantry and armored forces that fought furiously in the rear guard actions thus holding back powerful German forces which would have otherwise have been free to attack Dunkirk.  These German forces never reached the sea!  Unfortunately most of these French forces were captured after the evacuation of Dunkirk and killed or put into prison camps.  Thier efforts played a huge part in "Operation Dynamo, the evacuation of Dunkirk"  and can be largly credited with saving the BEF and other forces from destruction and eliminating the British from the war.

JC welcome to the GB!  Nice to have you and your input!  Thanks for all of the great information you have provided.

Rob I was thinking exactly the same thing this morning, the British and French forces were equipped and positioned to run a replay of WWI, unfortunately the German forces had different ideas and forced the allies to be continually on the back foot in a reactive posture. 

The French and British forces that came into contact with the Germans fought bravely but they were attempting to fight a static in which their opponents would co-operate.  Their command staff were miles behind the lines based in Chateaus (sp) with no real idea of what was happening until it was too late to do anything about it.

Defeat in France at a high level can be put down to a couple of things.  Lack of British investment and training in modern weapons and tactics and on the French side faith in a static defensive system that in the end proved easy to bypass.

The quality of the fighting men in the French and BEF is certainly not in question.

Just my 2 cents

Cheers all

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