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Big Beautiful Jugs - OFFICIAL P-47 GROUP BUILD

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  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: MOAB, UTAH
Posted by JOE RIX on Wednesday, August 8, 2012 8:12 AM

Thank You Gentlemen for the encouraging words. I will indeed proceed as planned other than I am going to apply an intial gloss coat in order to protect the surrounding decals from the masking and to also provide a smooth surface for the Alclad aluminum.

                                        Joe

"Not only do I not know what's going on, I wouldn't know what to do about it if I did". George Carlin

  • Member since
    February 2012
  • From: Olmsted Township, Ohio
Posted by lawdog114 on Sunday, August 12, 2012 12:17 AM

Hello all.  Man there are some fine looking builds in here.  Joe, sorry about your mishap. I know how frustrating operator error can be.....been there many timesWink.  I'm confident you'll get it fixed.

I finally got started on the 1/48 Tamiya Razorback.  I must say, Tamiya's 1/48 Thunderbolts have the best out of the box cockpits I've ever seen.  The detail is absolutely stunning.  I only added Eduard seat belts.  I painted it Tamiya XF26 Seep Green which I read is close to FS34092, which is apparently a good representation of Republic Dull Dark Green.  I did add a couple of drops of black to it though.  There has been some scuttle-but about early Jug cockpits being painted Zinc Chromate or Interior Green, but I'm not one to worry about such issues.  I've also read that any one of them could be correct. I decided to use artistic license and use the DDG.  Anyways, after my usual "The Detailer" wash and a dull cote, here's where I am so far.

Joe 

 "Can you fly this plane and land it?...Surely you can't be serious....I am serious, and don't call me Shirley"

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: MOAB, UTAH
Posted by JOE RIX on Sunday, August 12, 2012 7:52 AM

Thanks Joe, Yeah, no worries. I had family visiting for the past few days which was good in that it gave me time to just set the Jug aside for a bit gather my head together and then set to fixing it. Hope to actually to get in some initial action today.

Now, let's address that absolutely stunning cockpit you have there. Your detail work is really superb. Your DDG looks pretty darn good to me. Unsure if you have read the earlier posts in this thread and how folks interpret the cockpit green and how they opted to match it. Some really good stuff there. Indeed, you simply have to love these Tamiya P-47 kits. They honestly are outstanding and a real joy to build.

Keep that good stuff coming.

                                                  Joe

"Not only do I not know what's going on, I wouldn't know what to do about it if I did". George Carlin

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Sunday, August 12, 2012 6:36 PM

LD114: Great work there, love how the seat belts came out , they look very natural!  

Although now I'm wondering if I painted my cockpit too light a green.

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    February 2011
  • From: Monterey Bay,CA-Fort Bragg, NC
Posted by randypandy831 on Wednesday, August 15, 2012 7:31 PM

this sheet got me excited. been looking for ocean gray/medium sea gray/dk. green camo for the razorback. it's been answered. 

tamiya 1/48 P-47D $25 + shipping

tamiya 1/48 mosquito $20+ shipping

hobby boss 1/48 F-105G. wings and fuselage cut from sprue. $40+ shipping. 

  • Member since
    February 2012
  • From: Olmsted Township, Ohio
Posted by lawdog114 on Wednesday, August 15, 2012 9:27 PM

Hello all.  Well, I got a little bench time in last night and managed to get alot done.  The Jug I am building is a D-1 RE (Republic built plane), at least according to the Super Scale sheet with Gentile's markings.  From my research, the razorback D variant was essentially the same as the C, up until the D-15.  The only external difference was the addition of the two lower cowl flaps on each side of the cowl.  I think the early D's did not have wing pylons either but I'm still not sure about this yet.  I know the C models didn't.  Any input would be greatly appreciated in this area.

Since the kit's cowl is the later variant, I had to do some minor surgery, by means of adding to the lower flaps with Evergreen stock.  This was easy enough.   I then turned my attention to the PW 2800 mill.  I scratch built the ignition harness with some Evergreen rod and copper wire.  (I described my process with my Wildcat in the Grumman Group Build, if anyone would like me to explain it again, let me know and I'll post a thread on the topic).  To me, a radial just doesn't look right without the harness,especially on a Jug where the cowl is so exposed.  All I have to do is paint  then wash it.   

I also manged to seal up the fuselage and glue the wings together.  Not one speck of putty needed.  A test fit of the wing/fuselage joint and it looks perfect.  What a kit.  Here's where I'm at so far.

Joe

 

 "Can you fly this plane and land it?...Surely you can't be serious....I am serious, and don't call me Shirley"

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    February 2011
  • From: Monterey Bay,CA-Fort Bragg, NC
Posted by randypandy831 on Wednesday, August 15, 2012 10:00 PM

awesome work on that engine!!!

tamiya 1/48 P-47D $25 + shipping

tamiya 1/48 mosquito $20+ shipping

hobby boss 1/48 F-105G. wings and fuselage cut from sprue. $40+ shipping. 

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: MOAB, UTAH
Posted by JOE RIX on Thursday, August 16, 2012 7:59 AM

Randypandy - Now that is sweet scheme. Nice to see something different. Wonderful thing about modeling the P-47 is not only is the wide varieties of paint schemes, markings and nose art just within the USAAF but then you expand your research to all the different variations with the all the other nationalities that utilized the Jug and the options seem limitless.

Joe - Wonderful work on the engine. I couldn't agree more about detailing the radial engine. Wired my first one for this GB and I couln't be happier with time and effort I invested doing that.

Progress on my repair job has been slowed simply due to time committments this week. Yet I'm slowly getting the masking necessary for the effort done.

                                                 Joe

"Not only do I not know what's going on, I wouldn't know what to do about it if I did". George Carlin

  • Member since
    June 2010
  • From: Austin, TX
Posted by DoogsATX on Thursday, August 16, 2012 10:00 AM

Randy - that's one awesome decal sheet - I know there was also an all-black P-47 bubbletop with the same squadron markings as that OG/DG-camo Razorback - think it was a postwar thing though. But very cool looking.

Joe - excellent work on the Jug and the R-2800 wiring. I'll have to look up your technique on the Grumman build (or if you could post it here that'd be awesome as well!)

On the Bench: 1/32 Trumpeter P-47 | 1/32 Hasegawa Bf 109G | 1/144 Eduard MiG-21MF x2

On Deck:  1/350 HMS Dreadnought

Blog/Completed Builds: doogsmodels.com

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Thursday, August 16, 2012 10:46 AM

Joe: Yeah, that engine looks great! I can smell the oil and gasoline from here!

Randy: Nice set of decals, the RAF P-47s are really cool and different!

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    February 2011
  • From: Monterey Bay,CA-Fort Bragg, NC
Posted by randypandy831 on Thursday, August 16, 2012 1:55 PM

also got seac markings for a bubble top.

tamiya 1/48 P-47D $25 + shipping

tamiya 1/48 mosquito $20+ shipping

hobby boss 1/48 F-105G. wings and fuselage cut from sprue. $40+ shipping. 

  • Member since
    February 2011
  • From: Monterey Bay,CA-Fort Bragg, NC
Posted by randypandy831 on Thursday, August 16, 2012 6:13 PM

DoogsATX

Randy - that's one awesome decal sheet - I know there was also an all-black P-47 bubbletop with the same squadron markings as that OG/DG-camo Razorback - think it was a postwar thing though. But very cool looking.

Joe - excellent work on the Jug and the R-2800 wiring. I'll have to look up your technique on the Grumman build (or if you could post it here that'd be awesome as well!)

maybe this?

tamiya 1/48 P-47D $25 + shipping

tamiya 1/48 mosquito $20+ shipping

hobby boss 1/48 F-105G. wings and fuselage cut from sprue. $40+ shipping. 

  • Member since
    February 2012
  • From: Olmsted Township, Ohio
Posted by lawdog114 on Thursday, August 16, 2012 8:33 PM

DoogsATX

Joe - excellent work on the Jug and the R-2800 wiring. I'll have to look up your technique on the Grumman build (or if you could post it here that'd be awesome as well!)

Thanks guys!  Doogs, I'll just start a new thread in the aircraft forum explaining my process on wiring radials.  That way it will be easy access for anyone who may wish to give it a try.   Speaking of the engine, I just finished it.  A little detail painting here and there, a wash with my trusty Detailer wash, then a spray dusting of Tamiya Smoke to give it a used appearance.  When compared to the picture I used as reference of an R 2800 (Squadron P-47 Walkaround), I think its reasonably close; at least in 1/48 scale.  I also put together the airframe and its ready for primer.  I needed a little putty in the wing root gaps, that's it.  For some reason, I couldn't quite get the wings and fuselage to meet completely.  There was a hair line gap all the way down down the chord.  I've never heard about this happening on other builds so I'm sure it was operator error.   

Joe

 "Can you fly this plane and land it?...Surely you can't be serious....I am serious, and don't call me Shirley"

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Friday, August 17, 2012 11:32 AM

Great job there Joe, looks pretty darn close to ones I've seen.

I'm going to print off your post over the aircraft forum to use for reference if it's ok by you.

Cliff

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Australia
Posted by taxtp on Sunday, August 19, 2012 2:31 AM

Looks really good Joe. I'm off to llok at your 'how to' as I'm about t odo it for another build.

I've just started my 1/72 'Eileen', spraying the prop tips as I have for a number of other builds, at least it's under way.

Cheers

Tony

I'm just taking it one GB at a time.

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Corpus Christi, Tx
Posted by mustang1989 on Tuesday, August 21, 2012 7:20 AM

Joe. good work on that cockpit and engine. Cant wait to see her all dressed up!

                   

 Forum | Modelers Social Club Forum (proboards.com) 

  • Member since
    September 2010
  • From: DFW, Texas
Posted by NervousEnergy on Tuesday, August 21, 2012 8:09 PM

Update time.  Got some pictures that are now about 3 weeks old, but better late than never!

First off, thanks to Doogs for the suggestion of using Artists Tape for Curves.  That stuff is like MAGIC.  You have to be careful and 'prep' it some with old stick it on the jeans trick to remove some sticky or you risk paint pullup, but it truly makes masking a cowl ring or any other irregular surface a breeze.

The swooshes didn't come out quite as nice as I could have made them... a case of the masking looking great on the model, but then once the paint was down I realized the inside curve wasn't as steep as it should have been and it made too hard an angle where it hit the cowl ring paint.  Oh well... it's close enough I'm certainly not re-doing hours of prep and paint, and the offending missed angle will be covered by the nose art on the business side.  The lines were perfect... that artists tape makes it look factory done.  Anyone not familiar with the swoosh angle wouldn't realize I'd missed how strong the angle should have been near the cowling.

 

The rudder / vertical stab was simple enough.

I've actually finished all principle construction and painting (save a few bits like lights and antenna), and everything has come out pretty well.  I'm working on decals right now, and it's time to rant a bit.

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2010
  • From: DFW, Texas
Posted by NervousEnergy on Tuesday, August 21, 2012 8:19 PM

Well heck.. guess the post was too long and it ate my rant.  Sigh... I'll retype.

The Kits World decals I'm using for the plane specific markings are incredible.  Thin, tough, great color, sharp, great adhesion... even a micro-surgeon couldn't cut the film closer to the paint then what you have here.  Unfortunately, though, the decal kit doesn't come with the 'common' decals like the roundels... you have to use the kit decals for that or another source.

I'd heard the Trumpeter decals weren't quite right in register or shape for this kit, so I got a $9 set of Eagle Cal decals from eBay for the Trojan Horse P-47 for the roundels and such.  Great color, thin, sharp... and wouldn't stick.  Tried undercoating with set.  Tried overcoating with sol.  Yanked 'em, and stuck the trumpeter roundels on, and they went on perfectly.  

The HobbyDecal dry transfers was also something I was excited about.  Unfortunately, they're not effective at all on airframe aluminum.  They just won't stick unless you work them over hard with the stylus, and then they stick alright... to the sheet they came on, with the Alclad coming upwith it.  They work pretty well on regular aluminum, but you have to be careful just to rub on the lettering or you'll get bare adhesive that's tough to get off.  Worked perfectly for the prop stencils, and look incredible.  Disappointed, though, that the dozens of little touches over the AA panels will have to be left off or use waterslide.

Next kit will be nothing but paint masks for the roundels and lettering.  I'm tired of decals.

Finishing this week, and will post final pictures for edification, amusement, and derision, along with build notes.  The Trumpeter kit builds up to a great looking main aircraft, but it fights you in so many little ways.

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 7:50 AM

NE: The 'swoose' looks great to me! As do the tail accents. I'm going to have to pick up some of this tape after the recommendation you guys have given it.

I used Kits World decals for the first time early this year and am really impressed by them. Only complaint is the same, I'd rather get some national insignia instead of them shoving a dozen different schemes on one sheet. Still they look and apply great. Haven't tried any of the dry transfer in years, not a big fan of something you have to get right the first time and can't slide it around once applied.

My P-47 is holding right now. Funny, the kits pretty much done but the drop tanks don't seem to fit very well, partly because I applied them without the sway braces at first and had to pull them off and now need to reattach them once I touch up the paint where I scraped it off for gluing. The tanks have been repainted more than the aircraft by now...

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: MOAB, UTAH
Posted by JOE RIX on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 8:34 AM

Nervous - That is some very oustanding painting. I too followed suit when Doogs mentioned that tape and ordered up some myself. Lord knows I'll be needin' in the future. As for my attempts to repair my paint job I am meeting with futilty. Shot another coat of aircraft aluminum on the afflicted area and I now have a patch on the side of my fuselage that is no where near a match for the rest of the plane in aircraft aluminum. Must admit a bit baffled but somehow not surprised.  I am not yet dismayed as I have a bit of experimentation to do on my stunt model to see if I can recreate the right sheen and shade. I'll get some oics up to show you all where I'm at.

                                      Joe

"Not only do I not know what's going on, I wouldn't know what to do about it if I did". George Carlin

  • Member since
    February 2012
  • From: Olmsted Township, Ohio
Posted by lawdog114 on Friday, August 24, 2012 3:47 AM

Hello, I thought I would drop in for an update.  This kit has been a dream so far.  Best ever?...has to be a candidate.  I preshaded the panel lines with Tamiya NATO Black then sprayed the Cowl and Tail ID bands Tamiya white.  I read that in the infancy of 8th AF Bomber escort over Europe, the gunners were mistaking the P-47s for Fw 190s so they started painting the white cowl and tail stripes white......interesting.  How does a P-47 look like an Fw-190.  Radial engine machines at 400 mph I suppose.  Anyways, I used the kit instructions as reference and taped these off.  I then rolled up "blue tack" (poster putty) to separate the demarcation line for the Olive Drab over Neutral Gray.  I prefer a browner Olive Drab so I made a custom mix of Tamiya OD and Khaki until it looked right to my eye....about 60 OD to 40 Khaki.  I then added additional Khaki and a little white which is then streaked on the upper wing surfaces.  As I've said before, I tend to over do it because the effect tones down considerably after clear coat, decals, wash and dull cote.  I sprayed the control surfaces a different shade to add interest then post shaded some panel lines (mostly around the engine), vents, cracks and crevices with a "very" thinned mix of Tamiya NATO black and Red Brown. 

This is the second time I have used Tamiya's lacquer thinner.  The more I get used to it the more I love it.  The paint goes down nice and smooth with no "pebbles" at the wing roots. (common problem with using 91 Isoprophyl because it dries too fast).  Too bad its 9 dollars a bottle.   It shoudn't be long now. 

Joe

 "Can you fly this plane and land it?...Surely you can't be serious....I am serious, and don't call me Shirley"

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Friday, August 24, 2012 8:58 AM

Joe: I've been there before, wish I had some good advice for you.

LD114: Looks great! I did some mild streaking on a P-40 painted the same green over grey and guess I didn't do it boldly enough since you can't really see it. I like the results you and Doogs got with the aggressive streaks and am going to have to push things a little farther too!  

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    February 2012
  • From: Olmsted Township, Ohio
Posted by lawdog114 on Thursday, August 30, 2012 11:13 PM

Hello all, I'm dropping in with a little update.  I got her clear coated and decaled.  There were no problems to speak of and the decals worked fine with Micro Sol..  I also finished up the landing gear.  I did run fine fuse wire for brake lines.  I'm not too crazy about the wheels.  I unfortunately removed most of the tread detail sanding the mold separation seams....bummer.  I'll probably replace these with True Details or Ultracast wheels. 

Joe

 "Can you fly this plane and land it?...Surely you can't be serious....I am serious, and don't call me Shirley"

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Friday, August 31, 2012 9:20 AM

Looks great to me Joe! I've had the same problem with the tires, just pass it off as them being worn Wink

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    June 2010
  • From: Austin, TX
Posted by DoogsATX on Friday, August 31, 2012 9:49 AM

It's looking great, Joe! Really dig the OD mix you worked up and I agree, Tamiya's OD is way too green and dark. My favorite these days is Gunze's Olive Drab. Looks just right, IMO.

As far as lacquer thinner - you should try to pick up some Gunze Mr. Color or Mr. Leveling Thinner. Works just as well (maybe better) than Tamiya's lacquer thinner, and it's a bit pricier, but you get a lot more in the bottle (they're sold in 400ml size), so the per ounce price is probably less. Agreed though - after using lacuer thinner with Tamiya, there's no going back for me. It's like painting with silk.

On the Bench: 1/32 Trumpeter P-47 | 1/32 Hasegawa Bf 109G | 1/144 Eduard MiG-21MF x2

On Deck:  1/350 HMS Dreadnought

Blog/Completed Builds: doogsmodels.com

 

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • From: Frisco, TX
Posted by B17Pilot on Saturday, September 1, 2012 9:00 PM

After things are settling down from my move, I have pulled out my model bench (card table) again after more than a month of not working on anything.

Looks like I started on my -D before the big move.  I have the cockpit tub put together and the fuseladge and wings together.  I like it when you can slip the tub from below, helps a lot with seam control.  This is my second Jug, the first was a pro modeller kit, and I am liking the fit of this one better, thus far.

The cockpit with an Ultracast seat: (I noticed after pulling it back out that the rudder petals where missing, I have corrected that since the pics where taken)

  

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: MOAB, UTAH
Posted by JOE RIX on Sunday, September 2, 2012 7:39 AM

Joe - Oh Man, that is turning out fantastic. The streaking effect is definitely working for you. Nice job on the landing gear also. No doubt, you can't go wrong with a set of Ultracast wheels 

B17 - Excellent!! Nice job on picking out the detail, especially on the seatbelts.

"Not only do I not know what's going on, I wouldn't know what to do about it if I did". George Carlin

  • Member since
    September 2010
  • From: DFW, Texas
Posted by NervousEnergy on Monday, September 3, 2012 8:00 PM

And it's done.  Mostly.  Still lots of small errors, but I'm happier with this build than any I've yet done.

 

The slight side tilt of the port bomb was fixed after the photos... didn't even notice it till I saw the last head-on shot.  I need to set up on a white surface and take some better shots.

  • Member since
    September 2010
  • From: DFW, Texas
Posted by NervousEnergy on Monday, September 3, 2012 8:22 PM

I'm very happy with the performance of Alclad in this first test of it.  Prep was long, but seemed to have paid off.  Everyone that's seen it in person has commented on how real the aircraft aluminum looks.

Painting steps: 

1.  Standard seam sanding and such, but I didn't do any specific prep to the bare plastic other than fill and sand like for any other paint surface.

2.  Prime with Mr Surfacer 1200 thinned with Mr Leveling Thinner.  Laid it on fairly thick in several coats.  Sanded this one for quite a while.  Started with 1000 grit and then 2000 grit paper from Wal-mart (dirt cheap and effective), then on through 8000 in micro-mesh.  Got very, very smooth.

3.  Sprayed on the Alclad gloss black base.  I stirred the heck out of it with the badger electric, but it still went on fairly tacky after 24 hours.  Did a lot of research on it, and several top car modelers wouldn't spray on anything but a tacky black base due to adhesion issues if it was fully dry, so I gave it a shot... and the alclad went down perfect and very tough.  The alclad site itself says not to mask over the high-shines, but I masked the heck out of it repeatedly and only had paint pullup in two small spots.

4.  AA aluminum, followed by standard aluminum on the outer gun panels, and white aluminum on the inner.  White was also sprayed on the control surfaces, and dark on the flat tank.  Mr Color OD is the stripe, with Tamiya red, yellow, and black for the other colors, all thinned with MLT.

This kit fights you in countless small ways, but only small ones.  The 'big' things... wing roots, fuselage joints, dihedral, front canopy fit, etc., were all flawless.  I can put up wth a lot of fiddly issues if the big things go down well.

The Kitsworld decals for the plane spec markings were the best I've ever used.  Period.  The Eagle Cal decals I bought for insignia replacement looked great but simply wouldn't stick.  The kit decals I went back to for insignia stuck fine. 

I should have gotten a bit more aluminum on the brass barrels, but it's only apparent if you look at the bottom of them very closely.  I made a tactical error in assembly... it looked like the small piece with gun port holes was going to fit well in testing, so I left it and barrels off completely so I wouldn't risk damage during main construction.  They didn't fit so cleanly once the wing was together, with a noticable gap, and also sliding the barrels through scraped the paint off.  Waste of time.  I recommend fitting the barrels, fitting the gun port plate, correcting the seam, and just be careful with the barrels sticking out.

Fitting the cowling is a disaster if you try to leave the rear ring on the engine. 

Last thing you might notice from the pictures is a missing starboard wingtip light.  It just vanished.  :(  I'll likely order the Trumpeter P-47N in the not too distant future and will be able to salvage a new light from that kit (D and N lights are both on the same clear sprue), since I know all the foibles in the kit and can make a better run at a show-quality build.  If anyone builds the N in the near future, however, I'd pay a nice fee for a tiny piece of clear plastic you're not going to use anyway.  Big Smile

In closing, I'm not sure I'd use regular aluminum for an airframe after seeing it in action no matter how beat up the plane is supposed to be.  It just doesn't look real like airframe aluminum does.  It's great for a few individual panels, but even the beat-up planes of the Pacific theater had a fairly metalic look to them in NMF... they may have been through the wringer with the elements, but there was still a luster under the patina and the grime.  I'll have to think on how to approach the N when I build it, as they were all pacific birds IIRC.

Fun build, but very long.  Thanks to Doogs for all the tips and starting the Group!

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Australia
Posted by taxtp on Monday, September 3, 2012 9:05 PM

Excellent work Nervous Energy, and thanks for the build report. I agree that the finish is outstanding.

There really is some great stuff going on in this GB, Joe, your T-Bolt has a unique and interesting finish too. I'm going to try that one soon.

Cheers

Tony

I'm just taking it one GB at a time.

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