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Steel Cats (Sept. 2012-Aug. 2013)

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  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Rain USA, Vancouver WA
Posted by tigerman on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 10:47 AM

LOL Dave, you sure fooled me!

Beautiful cat. I see that you painted your exhausts correct, whereas I see so many painted wrong.

   http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/wing_nut_5o/PANZERJAGERGB.jpg

 Eric 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 11:30 AM

tigerman

Hey Ripcord. Welcome aboard with the itsy-bitsy Jagdkitty. Gonna need some serious magnifiers for that guy. Anyone know if this is a rebox of the old matchbox kit?

As soon as i saw the small dio base i thought the same think, Matchbox. I didn't realised Revell were useing their molds.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Schroon Lake, NY
Posted by SMJmodeler on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 1:00 PM

Guys:  It's been over a week since I've been on the web...great to see everyone making great progress!  It would be a bit oerwhelming to try to comment individually but I look forward to visiting daily now and be able to follow along a little closer. 

There were a couple questions on my finished Tiger...thanks again for all of your kind words.

Hinksy:  The muzzle cover is facial tissue wetted with diluted white glue..dry and paint.

Hasenpfeffer: The chunky mud is good ole' Adirondack Mountain soil mixed with MIG Pigments Dark Earth, water and a drop of dishwasing soap.  I used the airbrush and pulsed/blew  the air across a lathered up fan brush fillled up with the mix.  I practiced quite a bit before applying it to the model.  I also used various amounts of water for varying thicknesses and different looks.  A lot of the caked on stuff was just added with an old brush.Yes

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 2:25 PM

Hinksy

 When my Tiger is on the base the idea is it is supposed to be stationary with that hatch open like they are reloading. You'll see what I mean when she's complete. Basically, it's artistic licence I know, but I like the opportunity to add any splash of colour where I can Wink

Ben Toast

I don't think your idea is that far fetched.  Can't remember where I read it, but at some point it was realized the Tiger was better suited as a defensive weapon, one reason being it's slow turret traverse (there was a second point mentioned but memory fails right now ... maybe bad cross-country performance?).  So placed in a static position and firing at distant targets is quite plausible.

regards,

Jack

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: MOAB, UTAH
Posted by JOE RIX on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 5:58 PM

Dave - I want you to know that I am absolutely impressed with your Panther. You have simply done an excellent job. And the photo is great. I relate to how you feel being as this is my first armor GB and I have only completed one aircraft GB prior to this. I regret that given the rapid pace and number of builds going on I've simply lost track of who did what and how in a number of cases. So, even though you may have previously posted the answers I'll ask again. First, did you add your tools, spare links and etc. prior to painting or did you paint them first and add later? Second, how did you do your tracks? They're really well done. And third what paints did you use for the camo and what PSI did you spray them at? I definitely appreciate the fact that you shared your work with us. Thanks, Joe 

"Not only do I not know what's going on, I wouldn't know what to do about it if I did". George Carlin

  • Member since
    July 2012
Posted by Hasenpfeffer on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 7:23 PM

Hey Joe, glad you like the Panther, and thanks for the compliments. This will be my best build by far and I'm happy to share. (Of course this is my most expensive build as well... wanted to go all out for the first GB and all.) Anyway, to answer your questions:

1. Tools were painted off the vehicle and glued on later. When/if you decide to go back and look, you'll see the progression from "naked" to "dressed" so to speak. As it stands now, the tools that are attached had the basic paint job before they were glued in place. Touch up and weathering will be done now that they're on. There are a few that still need paint, and those are just test fit on the vehicle. The same applies to the spare links, however, in this case they are extra Friul metal track links and were burnished with Blacken It (very similar if not the same as the AK Burnishing fluid). Nothing else was done to them yet as they look pretty cool just after the treatment.

2. The tracks are Friul Model white metal. They are individual links, and truly can't be beat for realism. On the advice of Andy (deafpanzer) from reading through his Pz III and It's Variants GB, I used 0.5mm dress pins as the track pins instead of the wire that is provided. They are much stiffer, and just overall more realistic. It's pretty much like a real track in 1:35 scale. I used the Blacken It solution to burnish them. It turns them a nifty darker color with a slight rusty patina. It'd be harder to paint them that way for sure. I then mixed up a batch of MIG pigments, 2:1 Dried Mud to Russian Earth and made a sort of thin paste of it with mineral spirits. I brushed/dabbed that onto the tracks, especially into the areas between the cleats. Let dry and then dry brushed (no paint) and used a brush with mineral spirits (not much here, just enough to moisten the brush) to even out, blend and basically get the look I was going for. Finally, I used a small piece of sand paper to go over the cleats, inside of the teeth and some other random areas to expose the bare metal again.

3. The tank itself was primed with Tamiya Hull Red (XF9), and then sprayed with Tamiya Dark Yellow (XF60) with ~10% Tamiya Flat White ( XF2) - others use Deck Tan to lighten as it's more neutral, but I've had pretty good luck with the white. I spray this on to cover, but some of the deepest nooks, etc, remain mostly the Hull Red. This is ok as it is kinda like pre-shading in a way.  This was followed up with a lighter shade (~20% XF2) on the upper surfaces and upper edges of the vertical surfaces, and then even lighter (~30% XF2) on the upper most surfaces. The last two coats of lighter DY were done somewhat sparingly. These main coats were done at 15-20 psi. The camo is Tamiya Dark Green (XF61) and Tamiya Red Brown (XF64). Both were lightened slightly with Flat White. (Can't recall the %, but I'd guess around 10%). This was sprayed on in short spurts pretty close to the model closer to 30 psi. I still got more overspray than I wanted, but looks ok for this camo pattern. Plus it gets toned down some with filters, washes, weathering, etc. I just got a new Iwata AB earlier this year and I'm still trying to fine tune the settings for different applications. Finally, following what Marc and some others had done I sprayed diluted Tamiya Buff (XF57) (95% Thinner to 5% paint) over the whole thing to bring it all together. This was done how Marc instructed. ~12" from the model to mist it on in light coats. I didn't go as far as Marc as I had no experience with how it dries etc. I figured I could add more later if I wanted to.

So... a lot of info. Let me know if I need to clarify any of my ramblings.

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: MOAB, UTAH
Posted by JOE RIX on Wednesday, November 28, 2012 8:30 AM

Dave - Oh Man, Thank you so much for taking the time to go into the detail of your process. As I follow along here and read up on my reference material I am developing a solid and comfortable process to apply. Like you, I am also going to prime with Tamiya Hull Red but, I will be departing from that in that I will be using the enamel hull red as opposed to the acrylic. I picked this up from one of my armor modeling books (Can't remember which one off hand). The idea being that this gives the acylic base coat a bit more bite. All well and good except that I had to order Tamiya Enamel paint from Asia. Also, glad to get some reinforcement as far as painting accessories and attaching them after the camo work. I'm getting pretty stoked about using the Lifecolor paints as the owner of the LHS I get to once and awhile simply cannot heap enough praise on those pants. Again, Thank You! 

 Thanks to all of you for the terrific advice.

I'm off work today so in amongst some honey do's I hope to get some bench time in. Slated is painting the rubber on my wheels using Tamiya NATO Black.

"Not only do I not know what's going on, I wouldn't know what to do about it if I did". George Carlin

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Wednesday, November 28, 2012 12:14 PM

Joe, if you plan on using different paint brands on top of one another, it would be wise to do a test before hitting the model.  I've experienced in the past  an enamel undercoat would cause flat acrylics to crack as they are drying.

regards,

Jack

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Wednesday, November 28, 2012 2:38 PM

I have some figures i want to use with my Panther. Can anyone confirm what the uniforms would be. The vehicle is said to have belonged to the HQ of the recovery section of the 653 s.Jg. Abt. So i am assuming they would wear the Special Field Grey uniform for crews of TD and Assault Gun units. Any info would be great.

I do have a photo of one of these Pantehrs, but its not very clear and the crew uniforms are hard to make out.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: MOAB, UTAH
Posted by JOE RIX on Wednesday, November 28, 2012 4:33 PM

jgeratic1

Joe, if you plan on using different paint brands on top of one another, it would be wise to do a test before hitting the model.  I've experienced in the past  an enamel undercoat would cause flat acrylics to crack as they are drying.

regards,

Jack

Thanks Jack. Duely noted. I'll do a little test on my "Stunt Tiger".

"Not only do I not know what's going on, I wouldn't know what to do about it if I did". George Carlin

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Piscataway, NJ!
Posted by wing_nut on Wednesday, November 28, 2012 7:26 PM

Dave I am going to have to call you Dr. Pfeffer. Cuz looking at that make me feels so nice.

Technically the 2nd entry to the GB is done.  I am going to put it on a base and add some figures in a "smoke 'em if ya got 'em' kind of pose.

I am going to put it on a base and add some figures in a "smoke 'em if ya got 'em' kind of pose.

If I haven't said it already i really hate ds tracks. These SOB's shrunk after the paint and weather all dried. They are so tight they are misshapen. The individual links are bowed in places. May have to redo them.  Trying to get them on I chipped on the fenders on the right side at the rear.  Let me tell ya I was cussing like a sailor.

Marc  

  • Member since
    April 2010
  • From: Yuma, AZ
Posted by Ripcord on Wednesday, November 28, 2012 7:41 PM

Thanks for having me. Smile  Just waiting on the paint order...  seems everytime I open a kit I dont have the paint.  Sad  Am I alone on this?  One day I will have every color ever made like you guys, right!?

Mike

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Australia
Posted by taxtp on Wednesday, November 28, 2012 9:03 PM

I have more paints than I care to admit Ripcord, but stilI I need more. There's always something different, or better, or not enough or some other reason.

That's a great looking tank Marc, it's one of those models that makes me want one.

Cheers

Tony

I'm just taking it one GB at a time.

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Rain USA, Vancouver WA
Posted by tigerman on Thursday, November 29, 2012 1:11 AM

Another stellar build Marc. Loved watching it all come together and the interesting concept for the mask was revolutionary.

   http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/wing_nut_5o/PANZERJAGERGB.jpg

 Eric 

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Thursday, November 29, 2012 4:59 AM

Marc - that is looking  the business.  Tracks don't look all that bad, but now I see why you were inquiring about AM ones.


Bish - regarding your recovery crew uniform question, that's a tough one.   I've checked my main source from a book entitled Uniforms & Traditions of the German Army 1933-1945.  There is only a brief mention at the beginning of the chapter on the panzer uniform that might be useful.   If it can be considered that the recovery crew is "tank related personnel" or "tank  maintenance personnel", the author states "non-crew members of armored units preferred to wear the black uniform."   Though an order dated 2 February 1940 (HM 40, No.166) restricted it's issue to tank crews only.  

It is interesting to note that engineers, sometime in 1942, were issued with the field grey version of the panzer uniform with shoulder straps with black piping.   If we knew more of the background on the recovery crew (were they mechanics or combat troops put into this particular service) then drawing a conclusion would be that much easier.

Something interesting I saw on the net was that  Franz Bäke was, for a brief spell, added to the staff of a panzer regiment and was put in charge of the recovery process.  So perhaps at the platoon level there was a mixture of mechanics and combat trained/experienced troops?  If this was the case then maybe the NCO or officer of your Bergepanther could be wearing a field grey panzer wrap.

This might be an interesting read:

http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt08/german-tank-maintenance-recovery.html

regards,
Jack

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: MOAB, UTAH
Posted by JOE RIX on Thursday, November 29, 2012 7:18 AM

Marc - I've got to say that although the tracks are a bit cross diambulated, through no fault of your own, that that is one absolutely fantastic King Tiger. I sure hope you've got another one for us cause I might possibly experience some withdrawl type symptoms from not seeing more of your excellent skills. Thanks for sharing Marc.

"Not only do I not know what's going on, I wouldn't know what to do about it if I did". George Carlin

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Thursday, November 29, 2012 8:46 AM

Marc: Looks great to me! I mean other than a judge who's going to look at the treads when they're distracted by the fantastic camo and weathering? And love the figures.

Ripcord: Yeap, I have every colour of paint there is (or so it seems)- problem is 95% of it is dried up when I open the bottle... Really I generally end up buying more paint everytime I start something, once the bottle is open it seems it starts to dry out at once no matter how careful I may be. 

Bish: Sorry, wish I could help. 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    July 2012
Posted by Hasenpfeffer on Thursday, November 29, 2012 8:47 AM

Marc - First rate job on the KT. The paint job came out just perfect. Great job on the weathering and detailing too! Yes and of course Beer. I see what you mean about the tracks. I guess I've always thought that if you build in that scale you sacrifice a little detail... and as frustrating as it was for you it's comforting for us to know that we are not alone when it comes to swearing at plastic. Wink

Bish - Yep, that's a tough question. This was attached to the staff of the HQ? I only came across a couple photos of that tank (if there was even more than one, I don't know). One was the one Jack showed above that has a crew on it, and the other on a rail car with no crew. So that was the only direct evidence on uniforms I found and t hey look pretty casual in the pic... colors are hard to make out. I did find a couple other pics from the battalion, but given my limited knowledge on the subject I don't know if the uniforms would be similar or not. The Tiger (P) was a command tank, but that's all I know about it. It appears as though there is a whole book out there by JJ Fedorowicz Publishing on the 653.

Here are a couple pics, supposedly of the 653:

 

I think I remember reading that the turret was fixed in position (on the Panther/PzIV Turret)... can you confirm? Pretty interesting. 

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Schroon Lake, NY
Posted by SMJmodeler on Thursday, November 29, 2012 9:13 AM

Hasenpfeffer

Hasenpfeffer:  This is looking great!  That old photo looked nice.  The few unfinished details are obvious...but it looks like your getting closeYes!  You still going to add that cool figure?

Tigerman: You wrote: "Beautiful cat. I see that you painted your exhausts correct, whereas I see so many painted wrong".  I'm still considering a Panther A as my second build so will you please tell what he did right versus others who have done it wrong.  Is the exhaust the same for the different variants?

wing_nut:  She's looking fantastic!...a lot nice weathering on a 1:72.  Nice figure assortmnet too.  I'd like to view a nice walkaround with some close-ups.  Be sure to give us the full viewingIndifferent when you post the final pic's...looking forward to itYes

 

  • Member since
    July 2012
Posted by Hasenpfeffer on Thursday, November 29, 2012 9:19 AM

Thanks SMJ - yep still planning on adding the figure (maybe 2). He's currently resting in preparation of the ordeal of me painting him... possibly several times. lol

  • Member since
    July 2012
Posted by Hasenpfeffer on Thursday, November 29, 2012 9:49 AM

Oh... SMJ, missed your question to Tigerman about the exhausts. My understanding is that the 2 smaller pipes on either side of the larger on the left side are intakes to the air cooled exhaust. They didn't see the same heat cycling as the main exhaust and thus didn't rust as much.

(from Spielberger's "Panther & It's Variants")

Kinda like this - although this guy still has some paint on the mains - probably a newer tank.

  • Member since
    July 2012
Posted by Hasenpfeffer on Thursday, November 29, 2012 10:08 AM

...and here's another pic from Actung Panzer vol. 4 showing the differences in exhaust layouts. (Sorry, scanning a book sux.) Upper right shows reference to air intakes addition on the Ausf. A 1944.

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Thursday, November 29, 2012 10:13 AM

Thanks for the photos Dave, I leaned something new today. I had no idea what the extra pipes were for or that there were that many different variations on the Panther exhausts.

BTW: I did get a base for my Tiger yesterday so hopefully I'll get the base laid out soonish. Ended up with a gap in the left side tracks though, not sure how I'll fix it. Think I'm going to cheat my way out and have a friggin' jerry can tossed up against the wheels so you can't see the gap....  

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Rain USA, Vancouver WA
Posted by tigerman on Thursday, November 29, 2012 10:47 AM

Thanks for the explanation Dave. I knew it was something like that.

   http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/wing_nut_5o/PANZERJAGERGB.jpg

 Eric 

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Schroon Lake, NY
Posted by SMJmodeler on Thursday, November 29, 2012 12:09 PM

Hasenpfeffer

Hasenpfeffer:...a picture is worth a 1000 words, thanks for taking the time to clarify this.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Thursday, November 29, 2012 12:15 PM

dave, those two photos you mention of the tank i am doing are the same two i have seen. I have heard about that book and really wish i had got it sooner. But seeing as the figures are hard to get to at the moment and the Dio will have to wait a few weeks, it might still be of some value to me for this build.

Thanks for those pics you posted. The first photo, the vehicle has the same insignia as mine.And i recall reading that each Company had a slightly different one. So it could be that vehcile was in the unit HQ as well. The one i am building was apparently a command vehicle for the unit recovery section. And in a unit of that size, i would think it wuld be a part of HQ. And one guys has the uniform on i was thinking of, so thats very useful.

Yes, the Pz IV turret was welded onto the Panther hull. As i understand it, the turret was to small for the Panther's turret ring.

You hav ebeen a great help, thank you.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Thursday, November 29, 2012 12:19 PM

jack, great info, thanks. Sound slike a book worth getting. My main source for uniforms is Brian davis German Army Uniforms and Insignia. It does say the Field Grey uniform was issued to troops of TD units, so i am guessing that applies to all units. I would imagine the mechanics themselves would wear coveralls of some sort. My figures are commanders, so i think i am safe with the field grey. Always nice to hear what others things or what info they have.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    April 2011
  • From: imperial beach, ca
Posted by malone duke on Thursday, November 29, 2012 12:29 PM

man o man everyone is really putting in some good work...  top notch stuff here guys, i'm not satisfied with any of my tiger pics so i dont have any completed shots for you guys yet, but this weekend ill get some up. but heres some beginning pics of my panther g. basically just removing some chunks from the hull, piecing it together and filling a bunch of huge holes. but this is how it all starts.

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by Thunderbolt379 on Thursday, November 29, 2012 2:26 PM

Hi all, TB379 here -- I'm back from my three weeks in England, and besides the usual post-trip jetlag and period of reorganisation I find myself in the throes of moving house. This will not be a quick process, it'll be three weeks before we're more or less done, so any thoughts of bench time are probably wishful thinking until, oh, Christmas...

The work going on here is outa sight, far too much to coment on individually, but suffice to say that I will be very pleased indeed if my finished product stacks up against the killer builds coming out of this Cat factory!

Cheers, Mike/TB379

http://worldinminiature.blogspot.com/

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Dripping Springs, TX, USA
Posted by RBaer on Thursday, November 29, 2012 5:21 PM

One hundred and eleven pages!!! I really need to do some serious catching up.

I promise, I have been working on my KT, in fact the second color coat went on today, and I have pics on my camera. Finding time (at work) to get the pics uploaded is tough.......

So I had an exciting moment when I was removing the silly putty I had masked with. It had changed into a semi-liquid state, and the Tamiya spray paint was not dry on the silly putty. I almost lost control of certain bodily functions, thinking I had a ruined paint job to deal with. Turns out that after I got most of the goo off, what was left semi-dried after it was exposed to air and I was able to remove it with a Q-tip. In fact, it stuck to itself quite well, so I'm okay. The paint under the mask was un-affected. I'm thinking that I tried to get one too many jobs out of this stuff, and the Tamiya paint, silly putty and the Testors MM enamels that were mixed in with the silly putty from prior paint jobs all combined to turn my silly putty into zombie snot.

Pics soon, and I promise to get caught up.........

Apprentice rivet counter.

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