First Annual USAF Vietnam Group Build

YW, bud . I'm on shaky ground here but I'm going with my gut feeling...ahh...memory .

Russ

Thanks for the great information Russ!  You know how I just eat this stuff up!   

Ken

Speaking of scratch building....

One of the big things that will have to be scratch built is what I'll call the "Talon compartment". A little background first...

There were two of us ECM techs for the 4 C-130s and the 4 C-123s. We were officially assigned to 1st Flight Detachment but the 90th SOS inherited all the maintenance responsibilities when the 15th SOS left, so we worked for them. The 90th had its own techs for the Black Crow system, FLIR, LLLTV and special coms systems. We took care of the TRIM 7 and TRIM 9 systems plus the RHAW equipment, except the scopes on the consoles.  We didn't have a "need to know" to enter the Talon compartment. But they gave us a tour just once. I'm basing my layout of the compartment on that one quick glimpse and it's a fuzzy recollection.

As I remember it, there were two rows of consoles inside the cargo bay just behind the flight deck. There was a bulkhead separating the Talon compartment from the rest of the cargo area with a doorway in the center. The doorway was covered by a curtain. We began our tour through this door.

As you entered, there were two consoles, one on either side. I'm pretty sure one was for the special coms operator and one was for the EWO. I don't remember which one was which but I'm going to go with coms on the left (looking forward) and EWO on the right.

There was a walkway between the two consoles and that led to the FLIR/LLLTV and Black Crow consoles. These were situated along the forward cargo bulkhead just behind the flight deck. They were side by side to the right of the access door from the flight deck and forward hatch.

The original Talon aircraft were eventually upgraded to the Talon I. The pictures below show a Talon I aircraft with a single equipment console just behind the flight deck bulkhead. Apparently, they were able to consolidate the four original consoles into one by the time they did the upgrade. More about the consoles later.

Cheers,

Russ

Son Of Medicine Man

~

That is awesome Russ!  That will be a switch for you, instead of scratch building!

Ken

Thanks Ken. It will be a change indeed. However, I suspect there will still be plenty to scratch build .

Russ

Hi Everyone,

I finished cutting the hole for the mechanical up latch.  Here is how it turned out:

Next I will paint the mechanical up latch to prepare epoxying it in place.

Ken 

MAgather

Looking good.  

Thanks for the link to Berny's clarification. He certainly knew his stuff.

Yes, he was a great combination of knowing all about the F-4 and knowing about modeling it.  In fact, the F-4 I am doing right now is of the last one he was a crew chief on.  In a group build he told a story about it where it was a hanger queen because it was always breaking down.  The last 3 digits in the serial number was "260".  So he nicknamed it "Too Sick Oh".  He even painted it on the inside of the front wheel bay door!

Then his squadron was shipped over to Vietnam.  He said he winced when he saw his plane land for the first time there.  But it surprised everyone and turned out to be one of the best performing aircraft in the squadron!  It was even credited with two MiG kills!

Ken

Striker8241

Hi, All,

I've decided to detail the interior of my C-130E including the cockpit. I went ahead and ordered a C-130 interior detail set and a Talon conversion set from David J. Parkins in the UK. It happens the conversion set has the correct nose for the early Talon so I won't have to modify the one on the model. Looking now for a cockpit detailing set.

Cheers,

Russ

That is awesome Russ!  That will be a switch for you, instead of scratch building!

Ken

Hi, All,

I've decided to detail the interior of my C-130E including the cockpit. I went ahead and ordered a C-130 interior detail set and a Talon conversion set from David J. Parkins in the UK. It happens the conversion set has the correct nose for the early Talon so I won't have to modify the one on the model. Looking now for a cockpit detailing set.

Cheers,

Russ

Ken,

My thanks to you too for that link. I've filed it away for the day when I haul out my F4. Good luck on fitting that latch assembly.

Russ

Looking good.  

Thanks for the link to Berny's clarification. He certainly knew his stuff.

Hi Everyone,

Once again I was only able to spend little time at the workbench this evening.  I got a good start on the hole for the mechanical up latch.  Here is how it looks so far:

Obviously I will need to take it slow on removing the plastic.  It is much easier removing it than it is replacing it! 

Ken 

MAgather

Yeah she's looking real good. Great story there too. I think I'm gonna build this exact bird one day.

Stumbled into this last month while on a business trip to Bowling Green KY. It is a little outdoor air park that honors Kentucky aviation. 3 aircraft now, with spots for 3 more. This F-4D, an F-9F in Blue Angels delivery, and T-33 with SAC markings.

What do you think about the Hase F-4?  My search shows they have an E, but I'm not enough of a Phantom guy to know what would need to be backdated. Does the E have the thick wing?  

I'm hoping the Academy new tool gets released in a C or D. Or is the B close enough?

Very cool Marty!  Now I am by no means the expert but I will pass on what knowledge a real expert did pass on to me before he was laid to rest.  His name was Berny, he was an avid modeler and he was in the USAF for 26 years spending a great deal of that time working on the F-4 Phantom.

I actually asked him that question once and his reply was, if you want to truly build an F-4D Phantom, you will want to get the 1/32 scale Tamiya F-4C/D kit.  In fact, here is a link to the discussion I had with Berny:

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/2/t/133928.aspx 

Ken

Yeah she's looking real good. Great story there too. I think I'm gonna build this exact bird one day.

Stumbled into this last month while on a business trip to Bowling Green KY. It is a little outdoor air park that honors Kentucky aviation. 3 aircraft now, with spots for 3 more. This F-4D, an F-9F in Blue Angels delivery, and T-33 with SAC markings.

What do you think about the Hase F-4?  My search shows they have an E, but I'm not enough of a Phantom guy to know what would need to be backdated. Does the E have the thick wing?  

I'm hoping the Academy new tool gets released in a C or D. Or is the B close enough?

MAgather

Yo SOMM,

I just MIGHT have a pic or two that could help with your build.  These are low res images for posting here, but I've got the multi-meg versions if you think you might want to review. Hopefully these will assist with your current work:

Me a geek? No. I don't know what you're talking about.

Wow, thank you Marty!  Those are some great shots!  Perfect in fact.  Look at that shine on the tail hook!  You can see the reflection of the trees and driveway in it!  Someone really cleaned that bird up!

Ken

Striker8241

 

My apologies, folks. I've been unable to find a reference to an F-105 with a 555 tail number anywhere, let alone at Takhli AB. Maybe I'm thinking about the F-4G from Udorn that could have come through as a transientt aircraft, or maybe I'm just dreaming. Anyway, sorry if I misled anyone.

Russ

 

No problem Russ.  After you said this, I had to look it up because I knew there was something about "Triple Nickel".

It was the 555th Fighter Squadron and they were called the "Triple Nickel".  In February 1966, they flew the F-4C Phantom II out of Udorn Royal Thai Air Base.  In June 1966 they moved to Ubon KTAB and joined the 8th TFW "Wolfpack".

During their assignment at Ubon KTAB from 1966 to 1973, the 555th Tactical Fighter Squadron earned three Presidential Unit Citations, five Air Force Outstanding Unit awards with combat "V" device, the Republic of Vietnam gallantry cross with palm, and the 1973 Hughes achievement award!  You can read more here:

http://www.aviano.af.mil/library/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=4353 

Anyway, we both were thinking that there was something significant to the "Triple Nickel".  I am glad that I looked it up.

Ken

Striker8241

 

Cool looking replacement hook, Ken!   With all your after market additions and your detailing skills, this is going to be a museum-quality build!

Russ

Thank you Russ!  As much plastic that I am cutting off of this kit, there won't be very much left that you can call "Hasegawa"!   

Ken

Yo SOMM,

I just MIGHT have a pic or two that could help with your build.  These are low res images for posting here, but I've got the multi-meg versions if you think you might want to review. Hopefully these will assist with your current work:

Striker8241

Son Of Medicine Man

~

That is a cool tail number, "triple nickel".  I know there were some fighters that ended with that number.

Ken

Thanks, Ken and np   Rgr on the fighters - we had an F-105 with the 555 tail number at Takhli in 69.

Cheers,

Russ

My apologies, folks. I've been unable to find a reference to an F-105 with a 555 tail number anywhere, let alone at Takhli AB. Maybe I'm thinking about the F-4G from Udorn that could have come through as a transientt aircraft, or maybe I'm just dreaming. Anyway, sorry if I misled anyone.

Russ

Son Of Medicine Man

Hi Everyone,

I didn't get a whole lot done tonight, but at least I did get to visit the workbench.

One of the aftermarket add-ons I purchased for my Phantom F-4E was the Eduard Brassin Exhaust kit.  And along with the exhaust they added as a bonus the tail hook and mechanical up latch shown here:

As you can see, much better detail than what is offered by the Hasegawa kit.  Anyway, this of course necessitates cutting off the old tail hook which is what I did, shown here:

Tomorrow I will tackle the mechanical up latch which is going to be a little more complicated with that curved surface.  I will need to cut a hole (hopefully square!) where it is supposed to mount.

Ken

Cool looking replacement hook, Ken!   With all your after market additions and your detailing skills, this is going to be a museum-quality build!

Russ

Bockscar

Sorry for the confusion Ken:

I was a bit quick on the draw there.

It was Actually Revell's mistake, they used the same B-52 sprues for a number of kits, and the Buff I bought was originally their B model, upgraded with the bomb set and pylons to D:

I.E. These Revell kits on Ebay are all the same sprue set, except for the starboard wings on the X-15 kit:

This one is my kit:

No suffix tag, because they knew they were cheating a bit, but the base BUFF is the B model for all of them as far as I know,

and they didn't put much effort into distinctive detailing other than adding the bombs etc.

I'll go for the D model, I think that is the one on the box cover, but I welcome

corrections here from the BUFF Vets, I'm a student, not an expert, of BUFFs.

Ken,

Thanks, it is going to be fun!

Dom

No problem Dom!  Like I was saying to Jim, most modelers still consider the Monogram/Revell B-52 kit the best 1/72 scale B-52 around.  Even with it's raised panel lines.

Yes, I totally agree with you, it is going to be a blast! 

Ken

Son Of Medicine Man

Bockscar

Hi Ken,

I'm submitting my Revell 1/72 B-52-B build, and I hope you welcome a few cross-overs from guys like Jim AKA Buffirn and me.

I would like to nominate Russ' build as an honorary participant as well

Any seconders?

Dom

Hi Dom,

Welcome aboard Dom!    A B-52B, a very interesting choice but it was not in Vietnam.  Only the D, F, and G models participated in the Vietnam War.

 

My front page already states that cross-overs are allowed and welcomed.  Jim already submitted a B-52D and Russ submitted a very interesting C-130E(CT) "Clamp" Combat Talon.  But they can submit as many projects as they want.  There are no limits.  The only rule is that you have to participate.

Did you want to put in one of your other selections from your list?  Of course the F-84 is another one that wasn't in Vietnam, but all the rest in your list was.

Ken

I was a bit quick on the draw there.

It was Actually Revell's mistake, they used the same B-52 sprues for a number of kits, and the Buff I bought was originally their B model, upgraded with the bomb set and pylons to D:

I.E. These Revell kits on Ebay are all the same sprue set, except for the starboard wings on the X-15 kit:

This one is my kit:

No suffix tag, because they knew they were cheating a bit, but the base BUFF is the B model for all of them as far as I know,

and they didn't put much effort into distinctive detailing other than adding the bombs etc.

I'll go for the D model, I think that is the one on the box cover, but I welcome

corrections here from the BUFF Vets, I'm a student, not an expert, of BUFFs.

Ken,

Thanks, it is going to be fun!

Dom

Hi Everyone,

I didn't get a whole lot done tonight, but at least I did get to visit the workbench.

One of the aftermarket add-ons I purchased for my Phantom F-4E was the Eduard Brassin Exhaust kit.  And along with the exhaust they added as a bonus the tail hook and mechanical up latch shown here:

As you can see, much better detail than what is offered by the Hasegawa kit.  Anyway, this of course necessitates cutting off the old tail hook which is what I did, shown here:

Tomorrow I will tackle the mechanical up latch which is going to be a little more complicated with that curved surface.  I will need to cut a hole (hopefully square!) where it is supposed to mount.

Ken

GMorrison

May I please enter with a Trumpeter 1/72 F-100F Misty?

Yes you may and welcome aboard GMorrison!   

Ken

May I please enter with a Trumpeter 1/72 F-100F Misty?

Bockscar

Hi Ken,

I'm submitting my Revell 1/72 B-52-B build, and I hope you welcome a few cross-overs from guys like Jim AKA Buffirn and me.

I would like to nominate Russ' build as an honorary participant as well

Any seconders?

Dom

Hi Dom,

Welcome aboard Dom!    A B-52B, a very interesting choice but it was not in Vietnam.  Only the D, F, and G models participated in the Vietnam War.

My front page already states that cross-overs are allowed and welcomed.  Jim already submitted a B-52D and Russ submitted a very interesting C-130E(CT) "Clamp" Combat Talon.  But they can submit as many projects as they want.  There are no limits.  The only rule is that you have to participate.

Did you want to put in one of your other selections from your list?  Of course the F-84 is another one that wasn't in Vietnam, but all the rest in your list was.

Ken

Bockscar

~

I would like to nominate Russ' build as an honorary participant as well

Any seconders?

Dom

Thanks, Dom. I appreciate the gesture but that isn't necessary - I'm already joining the build with a C-130E. Besides, I think folks have endured my B-52 build long enough and are as ready to see it finished as I am.

Cheers,

Russ 

Son Of Medicine Man

Bockscar

Hi Ken:

I still have a Dragonfly hiding around here, and some Thuds of various scales.

I also have a partially built F-84 Thunderjet which Walter Boyne called 'built like a tank, and 'darn' near as heavy.

This is a good thread for you, I think this is where your heart is. I'll kick around some ideas. Maybe a big 1/32 RF VooDoo.

Dom

Hi Dom,

Have you narrowed down your choices yet?

Ken

I'm submitting my Revell 1/72 B-52-B build, and I hope you welcome a few cross-overs from guys like Jim AKA Buffirn and me.

For synergy reasons, I would like to nominate Russ' build as an honorary participant as well

Any seconders?

Dom

Striker8241

Son Of Medicine Man

 

Bringing up security, I remember my Mom telling me a story about when my Dad's security clearance was about to be raised while he was in the USAF, the FBI came to his parent's house to ask them some certain questions!  Let's just say they were more than a little bit surprised!

Ken

Ken,

Who was surprised? - your parents or the FBI?  

Russ

Good one! 

Ken

Son Of Medicine Man

 

Bringing up security, I remember my Mom telling me a story about when my Dad's security clearance was about to be raised while he was in the USAF, the FBI came to his parent's house to ask them some certain questions!  Let's just say they were more than a little bit surprised!

Ken

Ken,

Who was surprised? - your parents or the FBI?  

Russ