PACIFIC CARRIER AVIATION GROUP BUILD

Joe, you are a far better modeler than I.  I would have boxed it up and put it away.  Probably never touched again.  Looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

Joe, you are a better man than me! I would have tossed it in the trash and started over. You have the patience of a saint! Realy looking forward to seeing this plane finished!

Gentlemen, I Thank you for your kind words and encouragement. Yeah, I dunno if it's patience or stubbornness. Bit of a gray area there. Unfortunately, I am becoming too well versed in this procedure. I have a 1/48 Tamiya P-47 that had an issue with NMF Alclad over the entire fuselage that I will eventually get back to and strip down. For me, It's that I have invested too much time and money on a project to simply give up. Especially when there is a solution. Yes, it is frustrating but the fact remains that I have the tools to repair it and, thus, I will not just give up.

Good going, Joe!  It looks like you'll get the problem conquered.

I'd never heard about the product you're using, so that's also a good tip to store away.

That orange peel looks really dreadful. Hang in there, buddy! With your skills and patience things can only look great once you're done!

Regarding that P-47 of yours (Eight Nifties if I remember correctly?), I'm toying with the idea of running a Republic Aviation GB in 2016. Would be great to have you aboard in case you wanna give that repair job a shot?

Joe... I agree.  Too much time and expense to throw in the towel. Keep at it.  That is a total bummer that happened but we are pulling for you. Hang in there friend.

Thank You CMK, Clemens & Steve.

CMK: Glad I could clue into the ELO. It is an excellent product. Although, I have not tried to just remove a decal with it. It does one primo job on paint though. The one draw back to the stuff is that you really need to do your thing in a well ventilated area.

Clemens: Good memory. It is indeed "Eight Nifties". I appreciate the gesture and would welcome the opportunity if you are willing to entertain a nearly completed model in your GB.

Steve: Thanks for propping me up there compadre. I currently have 3 shelf queens in various states of completion that I will get completed. I simply have no designs on adding any more to the unfinished pile.

I should note that although I suffered a setback, I have kept moving forward not only with repairing the gloss boo boo, but also with completing the propeller, wheels and canopy. So, I'll be all ready to finish her up as soon as I get the new paint on.

Hi guys.

Been a long time since I have posted but I side tracked myself with other stuff. I've come to realize that if I am serious about getting back into model building I need to decrease some of my other past-times. Looking at the calendar I figure its time to come back to my Devastator.

Lots of neat modelling going on, and I am sorry to see you are in a bit of trouble with your finish Joe.

Here are a few update shots of my build. I scratch built the tie cables on the torpedo. The PE kit torpedo fins were a huge improvement on the originals the kit came with, but they were rather delicate, at one point I dropped the torpedo and bent the fins!

I've used Flory Model washes to try to pick out some of the surface detail. I think that all that remains is the flat coat, installing the canopy and few more bits in the cockpit and my first group build (and second kit since coming back) will finally be done.

Rob, the devastator looks great! The wash did make the detail pop very well! Great job! 

That is outstanding Rob. The finish and weathering look great. And it is good to see you finishing the Devastator up.

Excellent Devastator, Rob.  Great work!  I've built one in 1/72, and those corrugations on the wings are not easy to handle.  Well done!

I once asked if a landed plane would have the flaps down (as I wanted to show the details on the PE flaps). I eventually did find this photo, so I guess it does happen.

In model railroading its often said that if you can imagine it then somewhere in the real world it probably happened. I guess it applies to other types of modelling too!

Rob, the plane really looks sharp!

Your Devastator looks great!  Can't wait to see her finished up!

Hey Joe-- you are a good man Charlie Brown. 

Rob--your build looks really good.  Well done!!!

On a side note.  There must be something in the air with regard to modeling setbacks. Joe with his orange peel, and I just had another one on the heals of my airbrush problem.  

Last night I removed the masking on the Avenger canopies.  What a disaster.  I tried scoring on the edges of the tape, pulling this way or that way, but the end result was the same.  Much of the paint came off that wasn't supposed to.  The problem was so bad that it is a complete do-over.  I tossed the parts into a dish of Windex for soaking.  

I tell ya.  The Avenger has a lot of meticulous masking and it was very time consuming. As all that work started to unravel before my eyes I asked myself, " And why did you get into scale modeling again?"  I had this overwhelming urge to scoop up the whole project and let it fly out my window!    Fly Avenger fly!  Bee free!  Good riddance!   Alas--I didn't.  I had one saving grace.  The turret gun canopy came out well enough that I can use it.  I just need to do some touch up work.  Let me tell you--this little miracle made the difference between a DOA to one of that there is still a heartbeat. I need the turret gun canopy done so I can progress to closing up the fuselage.  It is the gating component that has been holding me back for weeks.  It has to be painted before assembly, hence the delay.

So there are a couple of things I am taking away from this latest setback.  

1.  No more Acrylics for exterior components.  The bonds are just too weak.  I suspect this to be the main cause.  Maybe I am wrong and I am open to comments from you guys.  Just for reference.  I dipped the parts in Future, masked, painted interior green (acrylic), then sea blue (enamel).  The masks were made by Eduard and there was at least 5 days of curing between each step.  I also made sure not use my greasy fingers on the parts in all this.  I wore gloves.  The parts were cleaned in dish soap prior to dipping them in Future.  When the paint came off it did so past the interior green acrylic layer.  All that was left was the clear plastic below.  I suppose one must question if the Future layer survived or did that fail too?  How could I know?  More questions than answers.

2.   Though Eduard masks are very convenient...I am not sure if I will go this route again.  They seem offley gooey and even stringy as I was pulling up on them. Paint was being pulled along with it.  I might try making my own from frisket film.  I had used it in the past with pretty good success.  It comes off clean, no residual goo. 

3.  Another benefit to dipping canopies in Future is that if something like this happens,  it is easy to strip the paint.  Soaking the parts in Windex quickly gets to the bottom layer of Future and the entire works come off. I could easily remove everything.

I will deal with the remaining canopy components later.  For now, I am moving forward on the gun turret.

Steve

Rob: She's looking great! I love the lines of the Devastator and you're doing one fantastic job!

Joe: It really would be great to hava you join that Republic GB. I might actually drag out one of my big Hasegawa birds and have a go at "Eight Nifties" as well (she's just one really good looking Jug!)

Steve: I'm sorry to hear about your paint problems. Do you use ModelMaster acrylics? I don't use them myself (I'm lucky enough to have a LHS that sells Gunze acrylics), but I noticed a lot of modellers have issues with those paints not adhering well...

Hi Steve.

I also had some peeling issues with the Devastator's greenhouse canopies.  I blamed it on the Testors MM Acryl, which seems to have really weak adhesion.  The problem is they seem to be the only brand I can get my hands on that makes the US Navy Blue Gray that the build called for.  Which acrylic are you using?  I ask because I have never had any issue when I was masking Tamiya paints on this build.  I've seen some recommendations to remove the masks before the paint has dried to help prevent lifting it off but I've not tried it yet myself.

As for the masks, I used bare metal foil for mine, but also had issues with gluey residue when I removed them.  The recommended procedure was to use Goo Gone, but I still found it left traces of glue.  Tamiya tape works well I find, but I found it too thick, and difficult to cut on the canopy.  Hence the reason I went with the BMF.  It is extremely easy to score and peel and so thin that the frame shows clearly through the foil.  I just wish I could figure out a way to avoid the residue.

You are correct!  ModelMaster.  Unfortunately, in this neck of the woods MM is the primary product sold in our LHS.  Maybe I will order some Gunzo online sometime and give it a whirl.  Thanks for the tip.

Hey Rob...yes I used MM.  There seems to be a common theme here.  How frustrating.  

Thanks about the BMF.  I was thinking about trying that too.  Now that you are telling me that it has glue residue as well, I think I will pass on that option.  Funny you should mention the Goo Gone. I used that last night to removed the residue left by the Eduard masks.  My experience is likes yours.  The GG still left glue residue and, the more I wiped, I started to see paint color on the cotton swab.  So it takes paint off too.  Not good. In one section it took off enough color to expose the underlying interior green.  If it strips paint, I have to believe it must be removing the Future layer as well.  Shaking my head.

So... I think I wil try going with the Frisket film.  That film works well.  It holds really well, you can cut it fairly easily, the film is thin, and it comes off the plastic clean.  What I used to do was burnish aluminum foil over the canopy, then cut it around the secrions I need to mask,  then use that as a templet to cut the Frisket.  You might want to try this stuff.  

With regard to canopy masking, I have had success using parafilm.

Here's another option for canopy masking.  It's served me well for a lot of years.

Cut very thin strips of ordinary masking tape.  I like Duck brand from Walmart since it has a pretty low tack, but it does stick well enough.

Use thin strips to outline the windows (inside the framing).  Use an x-acto knife with a new #11 blade to trim the strips of tape once they are in place.  

Fill in the centers of the masked windows with a liquid masking medium like MicroMask.  Wait a day for it to dry, and you're ready to go.

Alternatively, you can mask all the windows, then fill in with the MicroMask, and after it's all dry, then trim the ends of the masking tape.

The method has worked reliably for me for years, although it's tedious, time consuming and monotonous.

Here's a Bf 109 canopy:

And a turret from a B-24:

the canopy of the B-24:

And a Spitfire:

--just to show you how it looks.

I've been satisfied with the results:

The examples are all 1/72. (Is there any other scale?)  I use MM's enamels, and until they went out of business, WEM's enamels, so I can't say for sure how the technique will work with acrylics.

I haven't tried Frisket lately (stuff I did try years ago didn't stick well) or BMF, but the masking tape and liquid mask method might be useful if other methods aren't working.

Good luck with whatever you try!

 Oh man Steve, That just bites. I feel your pain. As you have encouraged me, so shall I encourage you. Very glad that you did not give into the sling reflex. Remember, It's not about the mishap but rather, it's all in the recovery. I'm sure you are now past your bout of cussing like a dock worker, so now it's time to settle down and and set yourself to a solution. Just hang in there. It'll be all good. So, it seems as though the culprit is the MM acryl. Unfortunate indeed. Seems as though an alternative paint may be your best solution. I have all the faith in the world in you Steve.

 I use Eduard masks pretty much religiously and I have yet to encounter any problems with gooey residue. And yes, I dip my canopies in future. This is indeed puzzling.

Hey Checkmate--  Thanks for the tip.  That is not a bad idea.  I hadn't thought of doing it that way. I will give that option more thought!! 

Hey Joe--thanks for the encouragement.  Yeah like you, like all of us, we invest too much into these projects to just  toss them.  I am just glad the turret canopy came out fairly decent. That would have been a major setback for me if I had to redo it..  I probably would have had to order another set of Eduard masks.  More time, more money.

I want take back something I said earlier about the frisket film.  I had a roll here and I was doing some testing.  You really have to press hard in order to cut through it. It is kind of rubbery. Cutting hard is not good for the canopy. So it does not cut as well as I thought..  For now, I am tossing that idea out.  It would be just too time consuming to work with.

Since I had a little extra time tonight, I also tried using Tamiya tape.  That actually worked pretty well.  It is very similar to the tape that Eduard uses.   What I liked about the Tamiya method is that I cut it while it was on the canopy.  The tape cut through very easily. It is opaque enough that if you put a light source behind the canopy, you can easily see the edge that you need to cut along.  I have to work on my technique though for cutting the corners through.  I end up tearing them off as I remove the excess. You can see that in the image below.  If I wasn't just playing around I'd have to redo those.  The advantage I see in cutting these myself is that the mask will already be in perfect orientation.   When I applied the Eduard masks. it took a lot of fiddling around to get them to lay just right.  Also, some of the pieces were not that accurate to the piece. Some were over-sized and some were undersized.   I am going to look at other tapes to test too. 

I touched up the turret canopy tonight.  It needs a little cleaning from dust but it should be good to go.  Does anyone do another Future dip at this stage to seal things in?  Just curious if anyone has tried that.

This is how the Tamiya tape came out.  Not perfect, but not too bad either.  If I can fix the ragged corner problem, they could be almost as good or better than the Eduard masks.

Steve - I feel your pain when it comes to masking canopies.  Definitely not my favorite part of modeling.   Since I couldn't find a Eduard mask for my F-107, I decided to attempt it on my own.  I watched a few videos, took the advice of some fellow modelers, and went at it.  If you go over to the Century Series GB, you can check out my effort.  So far so good.  I think.  The canopy I did is no where near as complicated as yours though.  I think you're doing a great job. Keep at it.

Craig

Hellcat...thanks for the tip on the parafilm.  I am looking into that.  

Craig...thank for your tips and I will check out the progress in your other GB.

I have to say there is a silver lining in this latest snafu.  It is great to hear from everyone on how they go about doing their canopies.  Your have shown a really diverse spectrum of masking methods.  That is really cool and enlightening.  I talked with another person (not on this forum) and he's uses blue painters tape.  He went on to say that you should apply as minimal amount of paint as you need for coverage, and then the tape should be removed before the paint fully dries. All that makes a lot of sense too.

Thanks everyone for helping in this.

Steve

Very nice work on the canopy, Steve.

Now, when you use Tamiya tape, do you apply it, then cut it with a knife while it's in place on the canopy?  

I have some of it I bought recently, but haven't tried it yet.

Thanks CMK.  Yes in the example that I gave, I cut it while on the canopy.  I was reluctant to do it that way for fear of cutting too deep or slipping with the knife, but the Tamiya tape cuts really nice. I find that I don't have to press too hard to cut through.  I like to use a curved blade as well.  The blade does not walk as much as the standard blade does.  So I can get straighter cuts.  I can post a picture of the blade and how I use it  if that would be helpful.

Steve 

Steve, same thing happened to me with my TBM canopy. Eduard mask set and MM acryl. I also stripped with Windex and started over.

One tip re working with Eduard masks, I don't leave then on very long. I spray the base coat (interior color very lightly, soon after the exterior color, and remove the masks within 24 hrs for sure, sooner is better IMO. I believe this help with both the peeling off and tackiness left behind problem, just my opinion.

Another Eduard tip, if you remove them carefully (for some reason, I had the foresight to do this on my TBM though it was my first Eduard job) you can use them over.

I used CMK's method a couple birds back and it worked great.

I think your turret looks very good.

That would be great, Steve, if you could post  a photo.  I haven't used anything except the #11 blade, so I'm not familiar with the other options.

Like you, I'm always leery of cutting tape when it's on the plastic.  Sometimes it can't be avoided.

Greg:  I'm glad it worked for you, too.  The more options and techniques we have, I think, the better able we are to meet all the unexpected little events that happen with modeling.

Checkmate: Some great looking builds you got there!

Craig: That turret is a beauty! Hang in there, I'm sure you'll get the canopy sorted out!