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Armour in the West GB (Defence of the Reich)

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  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Sunday, April 19, 2015 7:55 AM

I have had a couple of issues to deal with in the build which have put me back a bit, hence the delay in an update. The first was self inflicted and shows one of the draw backs of using oil washes over an enamel paint. I failed to do a proper job when adding the future coat and I completely neglected the rear decks. So when I added the oil wash, the whole deck peeled and had to be stripped and completely re painted. That the second time this has happened, so hopefully i'll learn the lesson this time.

So, what did I actually get done. After the paint and markings were on, I did one dry brush using MiG oils. This was followed by an over all wash of raw umber, and finally I have the right level of thinner to paint ratio to avoid getting a to heavily weathered finished. This was followed by a dot filter and a pin wash.

The tracks also got some attention with a dry brush of Vallejo steel followed by a raw umber oil wash. 

I then moved onto adding some pigments. I used MiG pigments mixed with water and a drop of washing up liquid, the excess is later removed with a stiff brush.

The same was done to the lower hull and road wheels.

 

 With this done, I fitted the wheels and tracks, added the side skirts, which had also received an oil wash and dot filtering, and started fitting the tools.

Now I just need to add the last of the tools, finish and fit the exhausts and touch up some of the tool brackets before the final weathering.  This will be some more pigments, a little mud and some streaks and dirt using AK effects fluids.

The other issue I had was with the trees. I needed to bulk them out with branches and twigs to attach the foliage to. My first thought was to use sea moss, but it really didn't take to be glued to the branches. I did try drilling holes into the branches, but keeping in mind these are made of metal wire, that didn't work either, which I realised after breaking one of my brand new drill bits. And even if it did, it was going to take an age to do the whole thing.

I was on the verge of leaving the trees and maybe using them for a future build, but then I stumbled across a build on the IPMS Stockholm site. Funnily enough, it was of a Jagdpanther of the 654th, and the guy had used rubberized horse hair, of which I have quite a bit, and then added the foliage to that. So, I gave that a try. He had clearly added his trees to the base after the main assembly and painting but before adding the horse hair, but I wanted to try one out off the base first, just in case I didn't like it. Of course, mine didn't turn out as good as the ones in the pics, funny how that always happens isn't it, but I do like it, though I think I added a bit to much horse hair. Once its fully secure, I will thin it out a bit and tidy it up, as my other half said, it does look a bit straggly.

For the foliage I have used some herbs and woodland scenic fine turf.

Sorry for the cluttered pic, but this was done in the shed to avoid to much mess in the house and avoid moving it around to much.

Then this morning, this and the two bare trees were added to the base. I had to patch up and spray the large tree again. I did think this morning that if I want to use tile grout in future, it might be worth adding the wire frame to the base and then adding the grout, as most of the damage come from handling and moving it around.

I will be adding the celluclay later today, then while that's drying I can touch up the trees and start adding the horse hair and foliage.  

I need to try and get a move on with this as I would like to take the completed dio to the next model club meeting, a week on Tues, so I need to pull my finger out this week.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Sunday, April 19, 2015 5:21 AM

I know what you mean Gamera, about it not looking like a Panther or an M-10.I wonder how convincing it was at the time. I would guess that at a distance and in the heat of battle, it may well have done fooled many of the troops. Yours is coming along very nicely.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Saturday, April 18, 2015 6:13 PM

Ok, let me apologize for the quality of the photos- plenty of light dunno why they don't turn out better. 

  Panther looks just plain wrong in the olive drab.

With the sheet metal disguise in place, don't look much like a Panther but not much like a M10 either though:

Hoping to get the spare tracks cemented in place and the whole thing clear-coated again for the pin- wash this weekend.

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Thursday, April 16, 2015 7:55 AM

They look great Jack, wish my figures came out half as well.

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Thursday, April 16, 2015 12:41 AM

Great work on those figures Jack. I need to get painting mine this weekend.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Wednesday, April 15, 2015 6:37 PM

Dan - primo job with the track construction.  

--------------------------------------------

My two crew members are complete.  Their boots will be dusted up once attached to the base, construction for that is up next ...

regards

Jack

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Saturday, April 11, 2015 12:19 PM

Nice work ion the tracks dan, she is really coming along.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Friday, April 10, 2015 1:17 PM

Dan, what you've got there looks perfect. They turned out much better than my first attempt to use them.

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    February 2006
  • From: Cincinnati Ohio
Posted by DantheMan85 on Friday, April 10, 2015 12:06 PM

Thanks Bish:  Yeah I've built a Panther and a Jagdpanther, those tracks are a bit bigger and a little easier to handle.

Thanks Hogfanfas: I think I'll leave the Stug in dark yellow, haven't praticed camouflage painting enough to apply that to my Stug.  I'm woundering the same thing about the back sides of the roadwheels, think I'll do some quick shots of dark yellow with the airbrush on the back side.

Thanks Gamera: The Dragon smart tracks are pretty good, and simple to glue up.  I have not done it yet but I plan to glue a thin wire to one of my spare DS tracks, and see if that can make the track sag effect.  I do pretty much what Doog's tutorial says.  The glue I use Testors cement, I let it set up for 90 minutes then place them on the road wheels.  It's in a nice flexable workable state.

Here's the size comparison of the tracks,

I use the swapped out DS track to get a idea on what length I should glue up the Smart Tracks.

This time I organized the tracks better to speed up assembly, it really cut the assembly time down to about 20 to 25 minutes.  Instead of picking them out of a pile, one by one.



The tools I used.  Would be very helpful to get a pair of reverse tweezers, my hand was starting to get sore.  There's there's roughly 90 to 100 tracks per side.

The one side I glued up yesterday and dried over night.

Then after gluing I kept the tracks in between a piece of balsa wood and a ruler.  Also used the strip of balsa wood as a straight guide while gluing.

On my Work Bench: Tamiya Ford GT 1/24

Up Coming: ?

           

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Friday, April 10, 2015 8:37 AM

Dan: I think I've said before I prefer the 'rubber band tracks' but the Smart Tracks are about the most pain free version of individual links I've yet used. And they do look much better on vehicles with sag in the track runs. I know The Doog has a tutorial around somewhere on assembling them- but it's pretty easy. Just cement them together in a run, wait about 10 mins or so and then fit them on the AFV while they're still flexible.

Bruce: Thanks for asking- I'm getting better. If I can get past all this dental work I'll be fine I think. The other week while fitting me with a bridge to replace a tooth the air bag broke when it went off in my face he broke the left front one in two. Guess it was fractured by the air bag too. So now I've got a root canal next week and they want to see how much of it they can salvage to attach another plastic replacement. Sigh.....

Anyway, it does seem to make sense to me that the wheels would be painted and then attached to the vehicle. Guess you could have a few mis-matching ones though from battlefield repairs though. Just my guess though, I don't have much knowledge in that field.    

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: From the Mit, but live in Mason, O high ho
Posted by hogfanfs on Thursday, April 9, 2015 6:17 PM

Bish

Bruce, no problem, I haven't been on here that much as I have been trying to spend more time at the bench. And thank you, but remember, this pattern was as far as I know only seen on Jagdpanthers and panther's. The Tiger II had a different one and the pattern would need to be applied in a different way.

As for the wheels, good question. I did the inside of mine yellow. I can't see how it would save much time not to paint them as the wheels would be painted on some sort of rack and both sides could be done at the same time. That being said, Karl in his Pz IV build did post a pic of a tank with at least one wheel with what looks like red primer on the inside. Photo evidence is not very helpful, due to the nature of tracks on the panthers and Tigers, its really hard to see the inside of the wheels clearly, and they are in shade anyway. Personally, I think either way would be ok, maybe even a mix. Wheels would have to be replaced, and it could be that while the originals had yellow on both sides, replacements may not have.

Bish,

I used the Eduard Zim kit for my King Tiger. When I post pics I explain more what I mean. But, I do want to use the putty technique the next time with the zimmerit. I purchased a Lion Roar zim kit, and I'm looking forward to using it. 

Thanks for the info on the wheels. Somehow I had it in my head that the wheels would have been painted after they were mounted to the tank. Your idea makes more sense.

 

 Bruce

 

 On the bench:  1/48 Eduard MiG-21MF

                        1/35 Takom Merkava Mk.I

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Thursday, April 9, 2015 4:52 PM

Bruce, no problem, I haven't been on here that much as I have been trying to spend more time at the bench. And thank you, but remember, this pattern was as far as I know only seen on Jagdpanthers and panther's. The Tiger II had a different one and the pattern would need to be applied in a different way.

As for the wheels, good question. I did the inside of mine yellow. I can't see how it would save much time not to paint them as the wheels would be painted on some sort of rack and both sides could be done at the same time. That being said, Karl in his Pz IV build did post a pic of a tank with at least one wheel with what looks like red primer on the inside. Photo evidence is not very helpful, due to the nature of tracks on the panthers and Tigers, its really hard to see the inside of the wheels clearly, and they are in shade anyway. Personally, I think either way would be ok, maybe even a mix. Wheels would have to be replaced, and it could be that while the originals had yellow on both sides, replacements may not have.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: From the Mit, but live in Mason, O high ho
Posted by hogfanfs on Thursday, April 9, 2015 4:44 PM

Gentleman,

I have to apologize for being awol for so long. I have been working on my King Tiger, and I am really pushing to have it completed before the deadline. I post some pics in the next couple days.

@Jack, the jagdpanzer looks incredible! The weathering is very realistic! And the figures are looking fantastic too! Great job! 

@Bish, the jagdpanther is looking incredible too, with zimmerit! I really like how you did the zimmerit, unlike the zim on my king tiger. I will be trying this technique in the future. 

@Dan, The Stug looks, dare I say it, incredible too! haha! Are you planning to add camouflage, or just keep in the dark yellow? Because it looks really good in just the dark yellow!

 @Gamera, I hope you can finish the M10. By the way, how are you feeling after the accident? I hope doing well. 

@Eagle90, the 234 turned out fantastic! I never really got into the all wheel German vehicles, but, I think you have changed my mind!

Ok, I do have a question about German tank wheels. And I'll apologize if this has been asked before. But, would the Germans have painted the back sides of the wheels after they had been primed? Or would they still have the primer on the back? Maybe later in the war they would have not painted due to getting the vehicle out to battle faster? 

 Bruce

 

 On the bench:  1/48 Eduard MiG-21MF

                        1/35 Takom Merkava Mk.I

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Thursday, April 9, 2015 1:47 PM

Looking good there Dan, lok forward to seeing how you get on with those tracks, I rather liked the ones for the Jagdpanther.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    February 2006
  • From: Cincinnati Ohio
Posted by DantheMan85 on Thursday, April 9, 2015 12:40 PM

Thanks Gamera. 

I was going to airbrush MM dark yellow 2103 last night but, couldn't get the lid off the paint jar.  So I used Tamiya XF-57 Buff instead.  Did a over all light mist then highlighted area's, and did a quick spot burst on the road wheels.  As you can see in the photo's I didn't airbrush Buff on four of the road wheels, I am going for the new look on those as if they had been replaced with new ones.  Over all I'm happy the way it turned out, the Buff has in places toned down the dark yellow, and has given a more weather, faded look.   I plan to start on the tracks today, gluing up one side today, then letting it dry over night then doing the other side tomorrow.

Lighting is not the best on my workbench, so some photo's look darker.

On my Work Bench: Tamiya Ford GT 1/24

Up Coming: ?

           

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Wednesday, April 8, 2015 11:29 AM

She looks good Dan, glad to hear you're getting her where you want her. Often I end up endlessly fiddling with stuff until I just give up!

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    February 2006
  • From: Cincinnati Ohio
Posted by DantheMan85 on Wednesday, April 8, 2015 10:39 AM

Thanks Bish I'll try that Nato black on my next german armor  Your Jagpanther is looking great.

Jgeratic: Excllent work on those figrues & your Jagdpanzer is lookin' good to.  And nice antenna set up.

A couple days ago airbrushed on Model Master Dark Yellow #2095 to tone down the darker desert yellow, I think it turned out great.  Also did a spot airbrush on the road wheels with #2095.  My next color will be MM Dark yellow '42 #2103, it's pretty close to Tamiya's XF-57 Buff  for high lighting.  And I'm putting the final touch ups on the tools.



On my Work Bench: Tamiya Ford GT 1/24

Up Coming: ?

           

 

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Wednesday, April 8, 2015 1:25 AM

Eye up Bish, JP looking good with the colours on, as are those trees.

regards,

Jack

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Wednesday, April 8, 2015 12:56 AM

Thanks Gamera.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Tuesday, April 7, 2015 7:28 PM

She looks pretty darn good to me Bish. And  those trees are really cool looking.

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Tuesday, April 7, 2015 2:43 PM

This last week has seen the paint go onto the Jagdpanther followed tonight by the decals. But most of the week has been spent on the tress which have taken more time than the zimm. But firstly the jagd. It got a coat of Xtracolour Dark yellow followed by a lighter coat high up.

  

This was followed yesterday by the green and brown.  The side skirts are not attached and were only fitted so the camo was consistent. The inside of the skirts had been painted DY with the rest of the vehicle. Then tonight I got the markings applied.

And the wheels have been painted using the circular template, the first time I have used one and its much easier than I had expected and certainly better than brush painting all the rubber. And no, this isn't all the wheels, just a taster.

 

And now those damn trees. After wrapping all that wire, the trees were fully covered, I have also added a third small tree. The one on the left is covered in Flexi bark, the other two in tile grout.

The grout does allowed different pattern to be applied to the bark that can't be done with Flexi bark. But its really brittle, the big tree especially has been a pain with bits breaking off. Even tonight, I have had to patch it up, but I have done that with some flexi bark. But here are the trees painted dark brown yesterday.

After this they got a thick Raw Umber oil wash and next up will be some dry brushing with oils. I have not done this before so am just making it up as I go along. But after looking at some trees, I notice there is more of a grey look that brown. So I will be experimenting with brown and grey oils. I need to concentrate on the trees this week as once they are done I can do the rest of the base.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Tuesday, April 7, 2015 11:33 AM

Hmmm, I think Allied tanks like Shermans and Churchills have the same protective rim though it's recessed into the turret though instead of a tube sitting on top of it.  

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Monday, April 6, 2015 1:54 PM

I have not actually seen the base of one of those antenna's from that angle. I had not realised that the large bit around it was hollow, I had thought the antenna base sat on it. So I had assumed that piece was the insulator. But now seeing yours, it makes sense. Maybe that piece is to protect the porcelain, which I would guess would be easy to damage. I am surprised it gives off that much heat, but those FU-8 radio's were rather large.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Monday, April 6, 2015 1:20 PM

Thanks for that info Bish - I wasn't aware the antenna would generate that kind of heat.  I think the porcelain would be directly underneath.   The piece I had to scratch build was the armoured housing surrounding it - has all that chipping in the photo -  I guess it also protected anyone back there from getting burned.

regards,

Jack

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Monday, April 6, 2015 12:32 PM

Not seen that Orange Hobby set jack, looks rather nice. I've got a couple of the Armourscale ones. Nice job on the base, which I believe is a porcelain insulator  and I believe was fitted to the base of all Star Antenna's. I am guessing due to the extra power pout put by the radio's.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Monday, April 6, 2015 11:15 AM

Ah, thanks guys that does seem a great deal easier.

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Monday, April 6, 2015 11:06 AM

Thanks guys, and just as Bish described, the six arms are all one PE piece bent upwards.  The Jagdpanzer kit did not have the option for a command vehicle, so had to order the Orange Hobby star antenna:

It's still very fragile, and as one knows, bending PE too many times will cause it to break - which is what happened to me.  A few more  broke off from accidentally hitting the assembly, so that at one point there were only two arms still attached.

Also had to scratch build, from some plastic sheet, the round protective base (technical name?) of the antenna pot:

regards,

Jack

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Monday, April 6, 2015 8:53 AM

Not sure if this is the case with Jack's build, but with Dragon and AFV club kits, those star antenna's come as a single PE part, you just have to bend the arms up and glue it to the top of the antenna rod. You can also buy PE ones separately from a couple of companies.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Monday, April 6, 2015 7:39 AM

Indeed, those figures look sharp Jack, and congrats on the antenna - not sure how you guys do the 'sputnik' things with the spikes.

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Monday, April 6, 2015 1:42 AM

Looks really good there jack, lovely work on the figures.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

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