Battle of Midway Group Build, 3 June, 2017 - 7 June, 2018

Hey no sweat D, just a thought to throw this idea out.  Once in a while a brick wall appears out of nowhere killing the project.

You can't go wrong with the Tamiya Wildcat, that is a very nice kit and has the typical excellent   Tamiya parts fit. I just completed the new Tamiya 1/48 Tomcat as a commission and was impressed by the level of detail and outstanding parts fit, superior to Hasegawa 's cat.

Save that Zero as a test bed for future projects then.         

plasticjunkie

Sorry I'm late D with some help on your wing step issue but I got swamped with 3 comissions and other life things and have fallen a wee bit behind here.

That is a bad kit fit issue period. Hasegawa (beleieve it or not) has the same issue with their very nicely detailed 1/48 Tomcat which needs spreaders to align the forward fuselage to the rear fuse join.

With yours you can try to score and separate the top from the bottom wing about an inch from the root the shim up the top wing till it aligns. Tenax eveything together and when dry use either sprue and Tenax to seal up the small gap at the leading edge created by the shimming or use some PPP to fill it. Problem solved. 

 

 

Not only did I mess up the tail fin while gluing, but also broke the tail hook while de-spruing.  When I saw the wing fit issue, I decided this model does not want me to build it.  It is going on the shelf of doom (my first kit to do so) for a later try at your suggestion.  I have limited bench time (in order to maintain wedded bliss), so I think it is time to move on to a better kit, and the Tamiya F4F kit gets very good reviews. 

Plus, I got approval to purchase the F4F from my lovely bride, and I don't need to hear that twice.  Going to get AM decals, and do Thatch's plane.

Again, thanks for a very good suggestion.  I wasn't sure how to approach this issue, and now totally understand the thought process.  I am sure this will help me down the line.

Sorry I'm late D with some help on your wing step issue but I got swamped with 3 comissions and other life things and have fallen a wee bit behind here.

That is a bad kit fit issue period. Hasegawa (beleieve it or not) has the same issue with their very nicely detailed 1/48 Tomcat which needs spreaders to align the forward fuselage to the rear fuse join.

With yours you can try to score and separate the top from the bottom wing about an inch from the root the shim up the top wing till it aligns. Tenax eveything together and when dry use either sprue and Tenax to seal up the small gap at the leading edge created by the shimming or use some PPP to fill it. Problem solved. 

Hey Dwayne,

As I said, you will enjoy this build, mine went together over a weekend.  There are lot of build logs of this kit.  

Hey check, hate to add more work, but I am going with Scott's suggestion of getting the Tamiya 1/48 F4F.  Love that stubby little plane, so it was just a matter of time until I built it.  Please update the roster.  I am determined to get this GB badge.

Off to Scalehobbyist to put my order in.  This will be an OOB build.  No reason to fuss much with the pit, as the canopy is small, and you won't see much.  This will be my first Tamiya plane, and am looking forward to it.  Hope Mission Models has the colors I need.

checkmateking02

On the other hand, now seeing the wing step problem, I'm not sure what 

I'd do.  Some kits are just tossers.

 

 

 

On the other hand, now seeing the wing step problem, I'm not sure what 

I'd do.  Some kits are just tossers.

What Bish said, Dwayne.  I've done exactly the same thing.  I'm just glad it's fixable.

scottrc

Hey Dwayne,

See you got bit by the seeping glue bug, don't worry, it happens to me every time I use liquid cement.  Nothing a little light putty and sending won't fix.

If the fit issues are drving you nuts, then I would go onto a better kit and leave this one for practicing pre-shading or some other airbrush skill.  Its not worth getting frustrated over trying to figure out engineered problems when trying to learn how to enhance your basic building skills.  

The Hasaqawa Zeke will be much better, or get the Tamiya 1/48 F4F.  This is a dream of a kit.  You will really enjoy it. 

Cheers,

Scott

 

I see two 1/48 a6m2b Hasegawa kits, and both have box art with green camo scheme, which I think means they are land based, correct?  I still have the decals from the Fujimi kit, so I could just do the carrier based camo, right?  Sorry for so many basic type questions.

Hey Dwayne,

See you got bit by the seeping glue bug, don't worry, it happens to me every time I use liquid cement.  Nothing a little light putty and sending won't fix.

If the fit issues are drving you nuts, then I would go onto a better kit and leave this one for practicing pre-shading or some other airbrush skill.  Its not worth getting frustrated over trying to figure out engineered problems when trying to learn how to enhance your basic building skills.  

The Hasaqawa Zeke will be much better, or get the Tamiya 1/48 F4F.  This is a dream of a kit.  You will really enjoy it. 

Cheers,

Scott

Deffinetlt sound slike a bad kit issue. When you mentioned before about bracing it, i did think that might pull the edges of the wing in.

That kit is quite old, i just checked scalemates and it dates from 84 with the original going back to 72. So wounder if its a dodgy mold or somthing thats happened in the years sinceit was made.

Bish

That don't look good Dwayne. You shouldn't have to inbstall any bracing, my first thought would be is there anything inside thats stopping the wings from locating correctly. Are the wings slotting in from each side or arethey in one pieces attaching from underneath.

 

If I go with C (bad kit not worth the effort having an "accident", and calling this a learning experience), I have a choice of getting a better 1/48 Zero (probably Hasegawa), or getting an F4F, which I am going to get sooner or later.

That don't look good Dwayne. You shouldn't have to inbstall any bracing, my first thought would be is there anything inside thats stopping the wings from locating correctly. Are the wings slotting in from each side or arethey in one pieces attaching from underneath.

Ok, novice construction skill strike again.  When dry fitting the wings to the fuselage, there is a very noticeable step between the wing root and the wings on both sides.  I am sure this has been encountered before, and I am hoping there is a fix.  Here are a couple of pics:

In checking the wings, there are no braces inside to ensure the wings have the proper height to meet the wings.  I am guessing I should install some kind of bracing, but am not sure how to do this.  I didn't see this as a problem while dry fitting before gluing the wings together.  This has a one piece lower wing, and two piece upper wing.

Any help would be appreciated.  Never encountered this before (this is only my third plane).

Or option B) I have screwed this up beyond repair, and the plane needs to have an "accident", or option C) the kit is not a good one, not worth the effort, and needs to have an"accident".  If B and/or C, I can just get a better kit, and call this a learning experience.

Thanks,

D

Looking good Scott. I have taken to primer a lot of my models with black.

And thanks for that info on the Kongo, didn't know that.

It happens to all of us D. If i have not had plastic weld run between a fingur and the plastic or under  a clamp, the build isn't really complete.

So I am finally back to working on my Zero.  My limited construction skills lead to a newbie mistake.  The tail fin was a little difficult, as the plastic didn't sit flush, it flared out.  It required more patience than I had, and I ended up getting glue under the clothes pin I was using as a clamp.  Sorry this picture is fuzzy.  Couldn't get my phone to focus.

You can see the damage in the upper right corner.  I think I can fix this with some careful use of putty, but I am going to lose some detail.  Really annoyed with myself.  I knew this could happen. 

That will be interesting to see how it goes, Scott.

A little time to work on the Akagi this morning.  I am trying a matte black undercoating technique I picked up from the other modelers of IJN ships whos' finshes had impressed me, and am curious how its going to turn out.  Kinda like a mass pre-shade.

Bish

 

 

scottrc

The British were a major influence on Japan's ship design.  Afterall, much of Japan's pre-dreadnaught and post-dreadnaught navy was built in the UK.  Since Japan got what they perceived as a poor deal on the Washington treaty, they put a lot of focus on efficient carrier design, again much from what the RN was experimenting with.  

 

 

 

 

I didn't know that about Japanese ships being built in Britain. Now those were the days.

Naval warfare is the area i know least about, could do with reading up a bit more.

 

You may have read about the Kongo class battleships in your research.  These were basically Invincible class battlecruisers that were ordered by Japan right before WW1 and built in Britian.  Kongo and Haruna went on to participate in a number of historical events throughout WW2.  Haruna pretty much survived the war being sunk in the port of Kure in the final months. 

scottrc

The British were a major influence on Japan's ship design.  Afterall, much of Japan's pre-dreadnaught and post-dreadnaught navy was built in the UK.  Since Japan got what they perceived as a poor deal on the Washington treaty, they put a lot of focus on efficient carrier design, again much from what the RN was experimenting with.  

 

I didn't know that about Japanese ships being built in Britain. Now those were the days.

Naval warfare is the area i know least about, could do with reading up a bit more.

D your thinking of the Thatch Weave named after John Thatch.

Hey Scott, excellent points.  One of the other points made in the books was the contribution of the US code breaking team.  The USN had a pretty good idea of the intent and position of the IJN task force.  Of course, without the technology you discuss, that information likely would not have been as useful.  Even with the code breaking information, you still had to find the target, and transmit that information effectively.

I am really enjoying this conversation.  Love to learn new things from other history buffs.

Please let me know if I am being annoying.  I know discussing history is not exactly what this thread is for.

On another note, I have a 30+ year old kit for the Bismark in my stash.  Not sure what scale or the manufacturer, but I will have to pull it and look again.  There will definitely not be any PE in a kit that old.

ManCityFan

Nice work Scott.  I take my hat off to you ship guys.  Ship models intimidate me.

I recently finished several books regarding the Pacific campaign to try to refresh myself with all I had forgotten.  One of the points that came through loud and clear is that the IJN did not put the effort into damage control the USN did.  When the carriers got hit at Midway and caught fire, it was game over. 

I will be following this build with great interest.  The subject is great!

 

Thanks for the support.

Ships, especially 1/700, are actually quite simple if you leave off the PE.  This model will not have PE because I am enjoying just buildiing it out of the box and not having to do neurosurgery.

In regards to the IJN at the outstart of the war, we were not to well prepared in the damage control arena as well.  The loss of the Lexington was very close to that of the Akagi.  Not only was damage control not yet fully developed, the ships, since developed to be battle cruisers, were initially designed to carry powder and shells, and not tons of aviation gasoline.  We did learn our lessons from the loss of Lexington and Wasp and designed safeguards into the Essex class carrier, where as the Japanese did not, and even late in the war, quickly lost both the Taiho and Shinano, two brand new fleet carriers, to what had seemed basic overlooks in damage control.

From my opinion, the area the IJN really overlooked and surffered at Midway was that of early detection and not issuing enough CAP and having good communication with the CAP.  This was probably due to their overconfidence in thinking the US was not as advanced as they really were.  The US had implemented state of the art radio technology with multiple frequency assignments on UHF, telecoding transmissions, and using radar to coordinate their aircraft while the INJ was still relaying everything from line of sight observation, and transmitting on single HF frequencies to their airgroups as a whole instead of each group having an assigned frequency.  

Scott

I wish I could remember the name of the Wildcat pilot who came up with a tactic for zeros.  Essentially, it used team of two weaving one behind the other, and when a zero lined up on the lead plane, the trailer would get a brief firing solution.  But, overall, the zero was much more maneuverable, and the IJN pilots at the beginning of the war were top notch pilots.

I think the P-38 was kind of a nasty shock for zero pilots, yes?  I admit, I am not sure about this.

The Wildcat was good in it's own way though a bit underpowered. We and the British were able to use it to great effect, so much so that we continued to produce them throughout the war.

Until the Hellcat, there wasn't anything that we could front that could fight the Zero on equal footing as far as I know. 

modelcrazy

 

ManCityFan

I recently finished several books regarding the Pacific campaign to try to refresh myself with all I had forgotten.  One of the points that came through loud and clear is that the IJN did not put the effort into damage control the USN did.  When the carriers got hit at Midway and caught fire, it was game over. 

 

 

I believe they never expected enemy planes to get that close to their carriers. We may have thought the same if we never lost a battle to that point. Then again we had a diffrent mindset regarding crew comfort and safety. Look at their planes and lack of armor compaired to ours.

 

That does point out the difference in mindset.  The Wildcat pilots couldn't match the Zero for maneuverability, but quite a few of them ended up praising its ruggedness.  Surviving a fight you think maybe you shouldn't have can cause well deserved admiration.  I think I may be in the minority, but I really like that stubby plane.

ManCityFan

I recently finished several books regarding the Pacific campaign to try to refresh myself with all I had forgotten.  One of the points that came through loud and clear is that the IJN did not put the effort into damage control the USN did.  When the carriers got hit at Midway and caught fire, it was game over. 

I believe they never expected enemy planes to get that close to their carriers. We may have thought the same if we never lost a battle to that point. Then again we had a diffrent mindset regarding crew comfort and safety. Look at their planes and lack of armor compaired to ours.

Very nice, Scott.  This will be another great ship.  Pretty unusual funnel configuration--and that little mite is a pretty small island.

Dwayne:  Go ahead!  Take the plunge; try a ship sometime!  Get something simple to start with.  It doesn't have to be loaded with all the fancy PE out there.  The little pieces can a little fussy--not no worse than some 1/72 aircraft.     

Nice work Scott.  I take my hat off to you ship guys.  Ship models intimidate me.

I recently finished several books regarding the Pacific campaign to try to refresh myself with all I had forgotten.  One of the points that came through loud and clear is that the IJN did not put the effort into damage control the USN did.  When the carriers got hit at Midway and caught fire, it was game over. 

I will be following this build with great interest.  The subject is great!