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Formula One Group Build

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  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Thursday, July 21, 2022 7:54 AM

Thanks for your kind words, Ben.

Interesting background info on Hans.

-Greg

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Northern California
Posted by jeaton01 on Thursday, July 21, 2022 11:39 AM

Thanks for the back story!

John

To see build logs for my models:  http://goldeneramodel.com/mymodels/mymodels.htm

 

  • Member since
    May 2011
  • From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posted by Real G on Thursday, July 21, 2022 1:21 PM

Yes, a fascinating story!  I have never heard of a successful race car driver that competed until 60!  Were there any others?  Racing in the 1950-1960 period was fraught with accidents and death.

“Ya ya ya, unicorn papoi!”

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: North Carolina
Posted by Back to the bench on Thursday, July 21, 2022 3:57 PM

Real G

Yes, a fascinating story!  I have never heard of a successful race car driver that competed until 60!  Were there any others?  Racing in the 1950-1960 period was fraught with accidents and death.

 

 

Paul Newman was one of the team members that won their class (and I think finished third overall) in a Roush Mustang in the 1995 Daytona 24 hours race. He was just over 70 years old and I believe he spent approximately 5 hours in the car including the last 1 hour stint. I believe his last professionally sanctioned race was run in a SCCA GT-1 class Corvette at Lime Rock. He won that race at the age of 82. I have read articles that claimed he had a problem with the cooling system in his race suit during that last race and it was a hot weekend. When interviewed after the race he reportedly said "it was tough, I wish I was 81 again"Big Smile

The dates and ages may be off by a year or so, I didn't do a lot of cross checking. Also not the level of F1 but still pretty darned amazing!

Gil

  • Member since
    January 2020
  • From: Maryland
Posted by wpwar11 on Saturday, July 23, 2022 8:59 AM

  Just wanted to show progress on the Lotus 99T.  My first time using wires, hoses, etc.  I think it's ok.  I still want to use about a dozen more cables and such so I'm still sorting thru that.   Definitely learning what not to do for next time.  gluing the small wires down was a challenge.  A few glue marks I don't like but I figured out a way to avoid that next time I use wires.  The kit is just great.  Enjoying the build.  

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by keavdog on Saturday, July 23, 2022 12:01 PM

Looking good Paul!

Thanks,

John

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Saturday, July 23, 2022 2:15 PM

That's some fine workmanship, Paul. YesYes

Your seatbelts/harnesses are awesome. Can you tell me what they are and where you found them? I installed my paper ones in my Lotus over the past two days, I want to go down and throw rocks at them having seen yours!

Your wiring, so far, looks just as if you knew what you're doing. Smile

-Greg

  • Member since
    January 2020
  • From: Maryland
Posted by wpwar11 on Saturday, July 23, 2022 2:45 PM

Thanks gentlemen

Greg 
I got the belts at Spotmodel.  You have a choice from 1/2 dozen or so fabric colors.  The buckles are photoetch and this set has all the belt manufactures logo's.  Threading the fabric into the PE buckles can be a little tricky but nothing patience and vodka cant overcome .  Thanks for the kind words.  

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Sunday, July 24, 2022 8:22 AM

wpwar11
Greg I got the belts at Spotmodel. You have a choice from 1/2 dozen or so fabric colors. The buckles are photoetch and this set has all the belt manufactures logo's. Threading the fabric into the PE buckles can be a little tricky but nothing patience and vodka cant overcome . Thanks for the kind words.

Thank you, Paul!

Oh, and you're welcome.

-Greg

  • Member since
    June 2018
  • From: Ohio (USA)
Posted by DRUMS01 on Monday, July 25, 2022 8:55 PM

Just a quick update to show the progress I've achieved on the engine detailing.

In a previous posting I was challenging myself to come up with a solution to the large rubber ignition wire set-up. The one to the left is from the kit and shows how thick and unrealistic the plug wires look. The hybrid part on the right is the magneto top and wires that lead to the metal wire conduit. In my mind what better was to replace a rubber part that is suppose to be metal than with metal, right?

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And now the big question; how do I make the individual plug wires come out of the metal tube, between the fuel injection tubes, and over and down to the spark plug? By studying the real photos I came up with a solution using a hollow aluminum rod and solder. 

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The hollow aluminum rod will be the plug boot. It will lay over the plug and allow the solder to act as the plug wire (more to scale).

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As far as how would they go into the metal conduit, well, they will not. As you see in the photos, you cannot tell where the plug wire goes after it feed beneath the fuel injection piping. My thought is as long as they lead to the conduit, it is assumed that they feed into it. 

Here's the engine to this point:

- exhaust headers added
- some of the painted details applied
- the spark plug boots and wires added 
- each conduit and magneto cap are attached above the right and left cam covers
- the supercharger is added with custom fitting details
- brass fuel lines also added to the carbs.
- the rear transaxle hoses, couplings, and half shaft boots were added
- the fuel injection plumbing has also been added. 

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I still need to add clamps to the axle boots and hose clamps between the right and left injection lines; finish the detail painting of the nuts and bolts; add a couple more external lines on the engine block, etc. 

So, thanks for following along, let me know what you think or if you have any ideas to apply to the build.

Ben / DRUMS01

"Everyones the normal until you get to know them" (Unknown)

PROJECTS:

1/350 Tamiya Yamato - DONE (GB)

1/20 Revival 1936-37 Auto Union Tipo C  - DONE (GB)

1/32 Revell Arado Ar 196-B Seaplane - WIP - (GB)

1/32 Hasegawa F-16C - Staged

 

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Wednesday, July 27, 2022 4:10 AM

That's some real dedication you have going there, Ben. The engine is looking great.

All that metal plus your clever scratchbuilding.....interesting to watch to say the least!

-Greg

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Wednesday, July 27, 2022 7:03 AM

I've finally buttoned up the chassis and cockpit, less the steering wheel. I regret not doing cloth seatbelts, other than that, I'm happy with things so far.

Moving along to the engine and back end now.

-Greg

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by keavdog on Wednesday, July 27, 2022 10:23 AM

Looking good Greg!  Nice job picking out the details - really looks sharp.

Thanks,

John

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Wednesday, July 27, 2022 10:46 AM

Thank you, John....appreciate it!

-Greg

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Northern California
Posted by jeaton01 on Wednesday, July 27, 2022 10:51 AM

Sharp details, well done, Greg.

John

To see build logs for my models:  http://goldeneramodel.com/mymodels/mymodels.htm

 

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by keavdog on Wednesday, July 27, 2022 2:57 PM

Ben - that engine is looking sharp!

Thanks,

John

  • Member since
    January 2020
  • From: Maryland
Posted by wpwar11 on Thursday, July 28, 2022 10:31 AM

Outstanding work Ben and Greg.  

  • Member since
    June 2018
  • From: Ohio (USA)
Posted by DRUMS01 on Saturday, July 30, 2022 1:01 AM

Nice work Greg, I like it!

UPDATE:

The more I research the real cars, the more I find errors in the Revival molds. There are also plenty of omissions, details simply missing (?). I am just trying to make a very basic model look a little better than an OOB build. In this case it just happens to be on a metal model that was engineered in the 70's and without a lot or $$ behind the tooling. 

It really is not an awesome kit, it is a simple kit made complex with every surface, hole, or other type connection needing a complete de-bur, filing, leveling, polishing, etc. Now if this would come out looking like a top of the line Ebbro kit, then the work would be worth it. Still, if you want a model kit with a little detail, in metal, and don't want to spend over $300.00 USD for it (CMC), then this is really the only game in town for the modeling subject.

OK, enough whining about the ill temperament of the kit, after all I knew what I was getting into (sort of). For example, here are just some of the rubber parts provided in the kit that were replaced with metal, plastic, wire, solder, and guitar string. 

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Since the last update I managed to mostly complete the detailing of the motor. On thing that surprised me was the design of the plugs on top of the supercharger. Specifically, by design, they were too tall to allow the engine cover to fit properly to the body (test fitting). That reminds me of the 1939 Revival Mercedes kit as it also had a problem with the engine cover fitting properly after the engine was installed. Anyway, my solution was to remove the long cast prongs and the fittings and replaced them with a representation of the turned ends of where the internal bearings raced on the blower drives (see below)

(Before)
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(photo of real car but similar to my modifications on top the supercharger)
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Other additions included more wiring where appropriate, transmission details, and painting. For example, I painted the water injection lines and bolts on the cam/rocker covers using a Molotow chrome marker; detail painted various bolt heads, wiring, etc. Here is how I plan to replicate the line from the fuel take to the engine (guitar string, solder, and hollow aluminum tube).

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The only items remaining for me to scratch build are the oil filters with attach points (two), details for the shifting linkage, and the oil fill tube. (MORE ENGINE PHOTO'S SOON).

Step 2 begins work on the tube chassis. Part of the handling issues of the 36-37 Auto Union cars was the flex of the chassis when dealing with the power (torque) of the V16 engine. It appear that Revival got the tube chassis mostly correct. Now if the small details would be just as good. The instructions require very close attention to the details:

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Did you notice the very small information concerning the cutting of a small coiled spring into four pieces? (two for the front and two for the back). Did you catch how they are installed in a perfectly shaped and fitted set of parts (much filing and fitting)? The front uses 5 parts for each side and the end result is very, very little movement once the suspension and tire rod are added. For the back they use four parts on each side. When they are completed, the movement is around 1/4 inch but decreases to less than 1/16 once the full suspension is added to the rear of the car. Did I say that every part has to be filed, sanded, and polished just perfect for them to work? Here is the difference of two parts; one still on the tree and the other finished/polished.

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The front suspension is a small scale torsion bar type with ball ends attaching to the wheel. Here is another issue I found with the instructions versus the parts themselves. In the instructions, the thin brass disc on the face of the wheel spindle indicates it has three holes i it. The ones provided in the kit only had one hole that is out on the edge, see below. Pay no attention to the other items I've assembled, they will be described following this.

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What this means is that while it will hold the ball joints and tie-rod end to the wheel, it does not allow you to use the screwdriver to tighten the tie-rod ends to the tie-rod. The tie-rod is not assembled to the car until the body is attached as it goes through the body; this will be a problem I will resolve later. 

The front suspension sub-assembly is inserted into the torsion tubes but first are inserted into a brass sleeve and then into the tubes. The back of the front wheels show good molded details, but the front by using the thin brass disc are severely lacking. In order to get the smooth wheel hub look through those pretty metal spoked wheels, I will have to add a thin plastic cover being the same size as the wheel. I will then smooth the external wheel circumference and paint it. From my calibrated eye, it should not effect the wheel mounting. And yes, the torsion bars are not in the correct positions in the photo below. They should be angled to the rear not front. I just set them together to give you an idea of what it will look like.

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The rear drive line is assembled in this step, as a sub-assembly. They are not added to the frame until the upper body is mounted. I found another area of concern regarding the attaching of the half shafts to the transaxle in this configuration. Specifically, the half shafts are threaded tight to the wheel spindle which is through the wheel hub, suspension link and trail link. The only way those assemblies can be attached at the right trail and toe is to be threaded into the transaxle screws, meaning the hole rear axle assembly must be turned to thread the half shaft into the transaxle, while simultaneously feeding the leading suspension link through its hole in the body and have it screwed through the tube chassis. I think it could've been done better by assembling the axle half shaft to the transaxle and then insert the leading suspension link through the body for attachment separately. Last would've been the assembly of the remaining suspension link, wheel hub, and spindle. My problem is that I not only screwed them together, but I also glued them with CA cement too. Now they will not come apart without destroying them. This will be another thing for me to solve later. Perhaps I'm making something out of nothing, we will see.

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Now we come to the control pedals in the cockpit. Plain and simple, the ones provided in the kit are terrible. The do not offer any kind of detail or are scale correct to the ones found on the actual car. In addition, the levers attached to the pedals in the instructions do not exist in the kit. Instead, they provided five pedals (?). Even if you cut the pedal off to use the stem of the pedal, they are junk. My solution was to create them from thin plastic. I also added pedal faces to better replicate the size of pedal on the real car.

Next was the radiator assembly. Oops! I'm jumping ahead to Step 3.... Anyway, the radiator is made up of three main parts; the main body, the top, and what looks like an oil or transmission cooler towards the bottom front of the radiator. The first thing was to make the radiator body and top one piece, then shape it to look like one piece. Careful inspection of source photos show that the radiator is missing other fittings, so I added them by drilling and scratch building using various extruded metal and solder parts. Here's the front suspension with the modified radiator attached.

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The transmission cooler is a simple single part but the source photos show it needs fittings for processing the flow of fluid through it. While most of it will not be seen I am creating the fittings for the hoses to be added later. After finishing the metal part I used extruded plastic to create the nut or head of the fitting, drilled it, and then used some hollow core aluminum rod with solder inserted to avoid crimping it (see below). You can also see it attached to the front of the radiator in the chassis photos above. 

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To close step 2 I also need to talk about the locations of the gear selector and brake lever to the chassis. Why does the instructions have a measurement from the second chassis cross member to the selector box but the actual model has a pin and the selector a corresponding hole; meaning there is no measurement? Also, why did Revival decide to attach the brake lever using a metal strap and screw threaded into the lever and not just a simple pin like the gear selector? I ask this because it was the devil to bend and flex the metal strap around the tube chassis while inserting a micro screw, while also holding the brake lever. Some how I managed to assemble it with only two hands after several attempts. Like I said, I think the pin or a hole threaded through the tube chassis would've been easier, cheaper, and look just a good. 

I will discuss the Radiatormore along with other chassis and interior bits in my next update (Step 3). I'm also going to talk more about the V16 marvel of an engine in the next update. Soon I hope to add paint to the assembled chassis parts. Thanks for following along and remember, feedback is encouraged! If you have any ideas that could help me with the build, please share them. Be safe, live, laugh, and love well; above all MODEL SOMETHING!

Ben / DRUMS01

"Everyones the normal until you get to know them" (Unknown)

PROJECTS:

1/350 Tamiya Yamato - DONE (GB)

1/20 Revival 1936-37 Auto Union Tipo C  - DONE (GB)

1/32 Revell Arado Ar 196-B Seaplane - WIP - (GB)

1/32 Hasegawa F-16C - Staged

 

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Saturday, July 30, 2022 7:18 AM

Thank you John, Paul, Ben.

Ben, more I follow your build, the less I'm thinking I should have waited until I grew up to build that metal kit I tried as a kid.

I'm pretty sure I still couldn't handle it!

-Greg

  • Member since
    June 2018
  • From: Ohio (USA)
Posted by DRUMS01 on Wednesday, August 3, 2022 4:27 PM

Before moving forward into Step 3, I wanted to talk about the amazing technology found in the Auto Union V16. Without any doubt, the powerful rear engine Auto Unions were ahead of their time. Their sheer “Leistung” or power was absolutely legendary. Through my research for model building authenticity I was taken back by the design and charastics of a V16 engine designed for auto racing actually back around 1930. 

Though he never completed any formal engineering training, Porsche’s résumé was already long before he set upon the task with the Auto union race cars. He had built the first hybrid-electric car, in 1901, fitted superchargers to Mercedes-Benz SSK race cars in the 1920s, and drew the first sketch of the original VW Beetle on the back of an envelope. He was also a brilliant organizer, harnessing the talents of those working in his engineering consultancy such as chassis specialist Karl Rabe and Josef Kales, an aircraft-engine designer whom Porsche put to work on the Auto Union. The jewel at the center of Porsche’s mid-engine P-Wagen was racing’s first purposed designed V-16 engine. Instead of chasing horsepower with a soprano redline like Mercedes, Alfa Romeo, Bugatti, and Masarati, Porsche sought tire-melting torque for the Auto Union delivered at a lower, more basso profundo rpm.

Rather than use fewer but larger cylinders, as were some of Auto Union’s competitors, more cylinders with smaller bores kept the engine’s length reasonable. A major benefit of the novel mid-engine layout was the integration of the engine, transmission, and differential components, thereby saving the weight of a driveshaft. Indeed, everything about the Auto Union V-16 was revolutionary. A 45-degree V-angle provided even firing intervals and narrow width. Common practice in the 1930s to forestall sealing issues was an integrated head-and-block assembly made of welded iron and steel bolted to an aluminum crankcase. Instead, to save weight over that construction, Kales tapped his aircraft-engine experience to cast the crankcase, block, and heads all in aluminum. Forged-steel bore liners, so-called “wet liners” as they were surrounded with coolant, were retained by the cylinder heads.

Since the redline was a modest 5500 rpm, dual overhead cams were deemed unnecessary. Instead, to further save weight, a single camshaft supported by nine bearings operated all 32 valves. Finger followers nudged the intakes, while each exhaust valve was opened by a cam follower moving a horizontal pushrod in touch with an outboard rocker arm. This clever arrangement had never been used before the Auto Union V-16, nor has it been seen since.

 

A 45-degree V-angle for the cylinders (4) provided even firing intervals and kept the engine narrow. One central camshaft (5) operated the intake valves (6) via finger followers and the exhaust valves (7) via horizontal pushrods and rocker arms. The two valves at the top of each cylinder were spread 90 degrees apart inside each hemispherical combustion chamber.

To spare the weight of an intake manifold, a semicircular channel ran the length of the engine between the heads. Fed at its aft end by a Roots-type supercharger, this passage delivered the fuel-air mix prepared by a side-draft two-barrel Solex carburetor to the cylinders via short intake ports. Backfires were a real danger, requiring a novel solution. In those days, they were caused by the carburetor’s inability to respond promptly to abrupt changes in throttle position, such as a quick lift to arrest a sliding tail out of a bend (the Auto Union was notoriously squirrelly). Air and fuel mixtures momentarily went out of whack, causing the engine to stutter, a pop you can hear in many carbureted cars from either the exhaust or the intake. When the Auto Union’s cylinders misfired, it sent flame from the combustion chamber back up the intake and ignited the fuel-air mixture within, to potentially disastrous results, especially for the supercharger. Thus, a simple spring-loaded plate was added at the channel’s forward end to vent the excess pressure of the misfire to the atmosphere before it could do damage. It also served as a wastegate to limit the peak boost reaching the cylinders. One bad side effect was venting toxic fuel to the atmosphere, which sent a trail out the back of the car and into the face of anyone attempting to pass.

One pump scavenged oil from the pan for cooling and containment in a reservoir, while a second pump delivered lubricant to the V-16’s moving parts. Block skirts extended well below the main-bearing bulkheads to enhance the engine’s stiffness. The lower edge of this casting dropped at a 7-degree angle below horizontal to provide extra material at the rear where the engine was bolted to a five-speed transaxle. A forged alloy-steel crankshaft supported by 10 main bearings provided one throw for each pair of I-section forged-steel connecting rods. The engine could have gotten by with nine main bearings, but an extra main bearing was added to support the clutch and flywheel, located aft of a gear-driven vertical shaft that spun the overhead camshaft, supercharger, oil pumps, and pair of Bosch magnetos. Flat-topped pistons fitted with three rings were held to the rods by full-floating wrist pins.

A 7.0:1 compression ratio with 9 psi of boost yielded 295 horsepower at 4500 rpm and a mighty 391 lb-ft of torque at only 2700 rpm. A table-flat torque curve allowed lapping most tracks using only two gears, and tight courses such as Monaco could be driven entirely without shifting. Mercedes drivers revved their 3360-cc W25 straight-eights a full 1200 rpm higher to achieve a peak output of 314 horsepower, but they fell 10 percent below Auto Union in torque production. 

Gasoline in the 1930s lacked the octane necessary to forestall detonation, so a witch’s brew of fuel was used consisting of 60 percent alcohol, 20 percent benzol, 10 percent diethyl ether, 8 percent gasoline, and traces of toluene and castor oil. Since that concoction’s energy density was lower than gasoline’s, the Auto Union’s 55-gallon fuel tank required at least one refill per race.

Car and driver eventually gelled for the 1936 and ’37 seasons, as Auto Union punched its V-16’s bore out to 75.0 millimeters, yielding a total capacity of 6006 cc, the largest piston displacement used by any manufacturer in this era. At the time, displacement was unlimited, there being no caps until the 1938 season. Wisely, Porsche had entrusted his engine man, Josef Kales, to engineer the V-16 with future displacements bumps in mind, so bore spacing and cylinder-wall thickness were not issues. This new Type C had a 9.2:1 compression ratio fed by 14 psi of boost and pumped out 520 horsepower at 5000 rpm and a potent 630 lb-ft of torque at 2500 rpm. Rosemeyer won the 1936 championship. (The majority of this posting was previously written by Donald Sherman, 2021), for Hagerty Media)

I felt the need to post this is for several reasons:

- 1st V16 race specific engine ever produced.

- One of the 1st automotive race engines to be entirely cast from aluminum.

- even firing 45 degres design.

- Forged steel bore "wet" liner technology in a 1930 race car engine.

- one cam operated 32 valves through a central location.

- no intake manifold, roots supercharger fed a central chamber of force induction.

- two oil pumps.

- 10 main bearings for the crankshaft.

- My explanation of the water intake tubes on top of the engine as fuel injector tubes was wrong. In fact there was no fuel injection, instead it was forced induction through a central chamber.

- My initial guess of the "Doo-Dad" in the front of the engine as a pump was wrong. It is the dump / wategate for the fuel blow back during backfires and boost settings.

I initially posted a speed of nearly 250 mph but retracted it to 250 kph, again I was wrong, it reached over 270 MPH, WOW!!

This is a demon engine spawned in hades during the era. Now if it just the chassis and tires that could handle the power, could you imagine the capabilities of this beast!?

 

Next, finishing Step 3 of the Auto Union build. 

 

Ben / DRUMS01

"Everyones the normal until you get to know them" (Unknown)

PROJECTS:

1/350 Tamiya Yamato - DONE (GB)

1/20 Revival 1936-37 Auto Union Tipo C  - DONE (GB)

1/32 Revell Arado Ar 196-B Seaplane - WIP - (GB)

1/32 Hasegawa F-16C - Staged

 

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2011
  • From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posted by Real G on Wednesday, August 3, 2022 6:19 PM

Fascinating history lesson Ben!  I enjoyed it a lot!  YesYes

“Ya ya ya, unicorn papoi!”

  • Member since
    May 2011
  • From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posted by Real G on Thursday, August 4, 2022 1:54 PM

Okay guys, I have a technical question regarding the rear brakes on the Tyrrell P34 6-Wheeler:

The rear brakes have two brake line ports, and while studying my references, I noticed the inboard ports interconnect the left and right brakes.  So my question is where do the outboard lines go?  Is there a brake master cylinder dedicated to the rear brakes?  Or do the lines route to the front of the car where they join the front brakes and the master cylinder located behind the spoiler?  I'm a F1 and a car noob, so these things are unknown to me.  Any help would be greatly appreciated!

“Ya ya ya, unicorn papoi!”

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Northern California
Posted by jeaton01 on Thursday, August 4, 2022 2:18 PM

Unlikely there are two separate master cylinders on a car.  Common on tractors and airplanes where brakes are used for steering. I've never seen a system where the left and right brakes would be connected to each other, but my experience is not with race cars, just normal cars and trucks and other machinery, and airplanes.

John

To see build logs for my models:  http://goldeneramodel.com/mymodels/mymodels.htm

 

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Thursday, August 4, 2022 2:19 PM

Ben, I think I can finally understand and even share your enthusiam over the history and mechanical aspects of the model you are building.

For whatever reason, the F1 Lotus I am building here has led me to more information than with any previous model. Perhaps because I knew zilch about car racing, let alone F1. It's fun stuff.

G, hope somebody can help you with your brake details. I cannot. I'm taking a stab at a little 'wiring' on my model, just attached one today I  have no idea where it terminates so it's going to be hidden someplace.

In my house, visiting 2-3 yr olds seem have more patience looking at my displays than adults, so I'm going to be pretty surprised if anyone points out that the little yellow wire is going to the wrong place. Stick out tongue

I am NOT suggesting this be your solution, BTW. Just sharing where I'm at with a similar situation, and kidding around a little bit.

-Greg

  • Member since
    May 2011
  • From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posted by Real G on Thursday, August 4, 2022 2:40 PM

Greg,

Actually, I AM planning on stuffing the brake lines "somewhere".  If they route to the front of the car, they will go between the cylinder banks and hide among the fuel and ignition lines.

I'm not going "full boogie" on the wiring. I will only add fuel lines, brake lines, and the major oil lines.  Plus a clear hose that looks like soda fountain line going between the main forward and rear oil tanks.  A pressure equalization line perhaps?

The fuel lines will be done the lazy way, as the kit does not include ports for the fuel manifold "Christmas tree".  I plan on making small loops attached to the manifold, which will secure the fuel lines.  Criminal shortcuts cannot be seen once the electrical box on top is added, along with the tangle of lines.

I too am learning a lot about F1 cars from building this model, which is NOT my GB model (sorry).

“Ya ya ya, unicorn papoi!”

  • Member since
    June 2018
  • From: Ohio (USA)
Posted by DRUMS01 on Thursday, August 4, 2022 2:51 PM

I am no expert on the Tyrrell P34 specifically, but I have a couple ideas. First of all as I understand your comment, there is a line coming from the front to the back; from one inboard rear brake to the other; and a third line appearing to go back to the front? Is that what your saying?

If so.....

- The brake master cylinder is indeed in the front of the car ahead of the pedal and foot box. 

- Sometimes  a brake line between the two rear "inboard" brakes was to allow the racer to adjust the braking bias between the right or left, depending on how the car is tracking / handling under braking on any given track / day.

- Without question, one of the outboard lines does indeed come from the master cylinder up front.

- Perhaps the second line is to feed a proporsioning valve for front to rear brake bias? If not, perhaps it could be a closed loop system?

I hope there is somebody with the knowledge to confirm what they set-up is, as I would like to know myself. 

Ben / DRUMS01

"Everyones the normal until you get to know them" (Unknown)

PROJECTS:

1/350 Tamiya Yamato - DONE (GB)

1/20 Revival 1936-37 Auto Union Tipo C  - DONE (GB)

1/32 Revell Arado Ar 196-B Seaplane - WIP - (GB)

1/32 Hasegawa F-16C - Staged

 

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2011
  • From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posted by Real G on Thursday, August 4, 2022 3:36 PM

Ben,

I am thinking you are correct that the rear brake lines go to the front of the car.  What I am seeing in photos is the interconnecting line between the two rear brakes, and possibly independent lines on the outboard ports.  I'm not a mechanic, so I don't have any idea if two separate lines would make sense.  I can see from photos that each front wheel has only one brake line going to the master cyclinder.

Thankfully the Brabham I am building for the GB has a fully cowled engine, which is only veiwable from below.

“Ya ya ya, unicorn papoi!”

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Thursday, August 4, 2022 6:35 PM

Real G
Actually, I AM planning on stuffing the brake lines "somewhere".

Good. I feel better now.

Real G
I'm not going "full boogie" on the wiring. I will only add fuel lines, brake lines, and the major oil lines. Plus a clear hose that looks like soda fountain line going between the main forward and rear oil tanks. A pressure equalization line perhaps?

For me, that would be "full boogie". Smile

Good luck getting your question addressed. Looks like you have some good info already.

-Greg

  • Member since
    May 2011
  • From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posted by Real G on Thursday, August 4, 2022 8:51 PM

OK thanks guys, I think I have enough to go on.  Yes

“Ya ya ya, unicorn papoi!”

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by keavdog on Thursday, August 4, 2022 9:28 PM

Ben, I'll have to read that 2 or 3 more times to fully ingest.  But this motor had a single overhead cam with open air pushrods?

Thanks,

John

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