HELICOPTERS: ATTACK HELO GROUP BUILD!

Trigger

Member since
February 2004
From: Moooooon River!

Posted by Trigger on Thursday, April 14, 2005 4:14 PM

Gino

Ooooh yeah... Hey, it's been a couple of weeks. I think the pollen has cut off too much O2 from my brain!

------------------------------------------------------------------ - Grant "Can't let that nest in there..."

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HeavyArty

Member since
December 2002
From: Valrico, FL

Posted by HeavyArty on Thursday, April 14, 2005 9:29 AM

QUOTE: Originally posted by osjohnm

How many coats of flat coat should I apply?
I've also realised that the coat I put on the fuel tank was to wet, so I'm guessing mist coats is the way?

No real answer on how many coats to apply. Basically, apply one, see if it looks good when dry, apply another if needed. It usually takes me at least 2 coats of flat to cover a glosscote. It may take you more or less. Shoot it with a light coat and see how it comes out.

Good luck.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Trigger74

Gino
Couldn't he use Future or the SA equivilant?

Grant,
That is one of the products that started this discussion, he tried and it didn't come out well. I personally have never used Future (and don't like acrylic paints). I am pleased with the results I get form Testors gloss and use it exclusively.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

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Trigger

Member since
February 2004
From: Moooooon River!

Posted by Trigger on Wednesday, April 13, 2005 7:12 AM

Yeah, you don't want to saturate the model. Coming out of a can, you can't control the flow like you can with an airbrush and you could get heavy areas or even have the dullcote run down a vertical surface. I usually apply 2-3 light, mist coats of flat, letting them dry a day or so in-between hits.

------------------------------------------------------------------ - Grant "Can't let that nest in there..."

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osjohnm

Member since
October 2003
From: Cape Town, South Africa

Posted by osjohnm on Wednesday, April 13, 2005 4:01 AM

Gino, Trigger

Thanks for the responses. Let me explain that I do have Tamiya acrylic gloss which works but I was just wandering if the microscale would be a better option.

Unfortunately myself and Future don't get on well when it comes to airbrushing although my clear parts love Future.

How many coats of flat coat should I apply?
I've also realised that the coat I put on the fuel tank was to wet, so I'm guessing mist coats is the way?

Going to use the Tamiya gloss on the RAH-66 tonight. I must stopped "stauling" and just go for it. The fuel tank is to small an object to see if all is well.

John

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Trigger

Member since
February 2004
From: Moooooon River!

Posted by Trigger on Tuesday, April 12, 2005 6:53 PM

Gino

Couldn't he use Future or the SA equivilant?

------------------------------------------------------------------ - Grant "Can't let that nest in there..."

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HeavyArty

Member since
December 2002
From: Valrico, FL

Posted by HeavyArty on Tuesday, April 12, 2005 2:05 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by osjohnm

The hobbyshop didn't have microscale gloss so I took satin instead. I know satin is semi-gloss, would that work for decals?

Probably not to good results. The decals need a smooth surface to adhere correctly, without any silvering. The smoother (more glossy) the better. You will most likely get air induced slivering, caused by tiny air bubles under the decals. The air gets trapped in the uneven surface that satin and flat produce to make them flat. The rougher the surface, the more flat it is. This is all mcroscopically rough, but still not smooth. I would wait till I found some gloss cote of some type.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

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osjohnm

Member since
October 2003
From: Cape Town, South Africa

Posted by osjohnm on Tuesday, April 12, 2005 4:56 AM

Hi all

Haven't touched the Comanche for awhile. Ashamed [*^_^*]

However I did spray some microscale flat onto the fuel tank to see the results this morning. If all is well when I get home from work I'll apply a gloss coat onto the kit.

The hobbyshop didn't have microscale gloss so I took satin instead. I know satin is semi-gloss, would that work for decals?

John

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Par429

Member since
October 2004
From: Maryland

Posted by Par429 on Friday, April 8, 2005 8:07 AM

osjohnm-
I don't thin MIcroscale flat, just spray it out of the bottle. You can gloss and flat the rotors if you want, I don't unless there are decals that go on the rotors. You may end up with different levels of flatness on the rotors compared to the helo if you don't, but in my opinion this is a good thing. Keeps the model from looking too uniform.

Maybe slightly off-topic for you, but in looking at the rotor hubs of the Seahawks here at work, they are actually pretty glossy, probably to keep some of the dirt from sticking to them. So the rotor hub on my HH-60H is actually glosscoated, but it's hard to tell in the pictures.

John and Trigger, thanks for the positive comments, I appreciate it!

Phil

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osjohnm

Member since
October 2003
From: Cape Town, South Africa

Posted by osjohnm on Friday, April 8, 2005 7:44 AM

Always a pleasure to view ur HH-60 Phil.
Do u thin the microscale flat at all?

Guys, am I supposed to gloss and flat coat the rotors?

John

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Trigger

Member since
February 2004
From: Moooooon River!

Posted by Trigger on Friday, April 8, 2005 2:04 AM

Looks great Phil!

------------------------------------------------------------------ - Grant "Can't let that nest in there..."

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, April 7, 2005 11:17 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by osjohnm

......where has everyone disappeared to???

I'm still here in spirit! Smile,Wink, & Grin [swg]

You guys have been really putting out some great stuff! I totally screwed up by putting my Hind w/ my packout stuff in Atsugi. My shipment is supposed to be here about the middle of the month but that won't give me time to finish the GB, I don't think. Boohoo [BH]

All I can do is keep my fingers crossed & hope it gets to this "Aircraft Carrier in the Desert" soon! Tongue [:P]

- Calvin

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Edit

HeavyArty

Member since
December 2002
From: Valrico, FL

Posted by HeavyArty on Thursday, April 7, 2005 10:13 PM

QUOTE: Question, does model master paints always leave such a strong smell even after curing?

The odor eventually goes away, but it is pretty strong when you first spray it. Make sure you have a well ventilated area, or it will choke you up pretty good. I sprayed it in the house one day and the wife about killed me. It stank the house up pretty good.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

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Par429

Member since
October 2004
From: Maryland

Posted by Par429 on Thursday, April 7, 2005 9:38 PM

osjohnm-
I've always had good luck with Microscale flat, it's what I use. I have found that it has a shelf life, however. So I usually date the bottle with a marker and after six months or so I test it first before I spray it on a model. Good Luck.

I have still been working on the 1/48 HH-60H. I have added some small parts like wheels, doors and windows. I also finished the rotorhead and blades. Even though I dislike working with cast metal parts, I think the Cobra Company rotorhead looks pretty good, and is certainly an improvement over the kit one. I added some wires to it to try and represent the bundle of wiring that is the Seahawk folding rotorhead. I think the drooped blades look good, credit to Italeri for that one.

My album is at:
http://photobucket.com/albums/v485/par429/HH-60H

Almost there!

Phil

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Trigger

Member since
February 2004
From: Moooooon River!

Posted by Trigger on Thursday, April 7, 2005 11:08 AM

I wouldn't know. I don't have a sense of smell. If that's connected to the hobby or not, we'll never know. I have been told that it MM has it's own particular scent.

------------------------------------------------------------------ - Grant "Can't let that nest in there..."

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osjohnm

Member since
October 2003
From: Cape Town, South Africa

Posted by osjohnm on Thursday, April 7, 2005 10:02 AM

Hi all

Gino, thx for the part numbers.

Operation Humbrol Flat was a failure. Didn't cover the Tamiya Gloss(which worked rather well except I was over zealous in places). Still has a glossy look.

The hobbyshop near to my work stock Microscale products(had no idea until I asked today) so I picked up some Microsol and Microset. Can't wait to try them out.

Told them about my future woes and Humbrol flat failure. They recommended that I try the Microscale flat and gloss products as they use it themselves. They also warned that the Humbrol flat gives a yellow finish, especially on white paint.

Will try the microscale flat on the fuel tank and if all is well the Comanche will get some serious attention this weekend.

Question, does model master paints always leave such a strong smell even after curing?

John

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HeavyArty

Member since
December 2002
From: Valrico, FL

Posted by HeavyArty on Monday, April 4, 2005 4:06 PM

Spray Cans:
Dullcote 1260
Glosscote 1261

Bottle:
Flat 2015
Gloss 2017

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

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osjohnm

Member since
October 2003
From: Cape Town, South Africa

Posted by osjohnm on Monday, April 4, 2005 11:26 AM

Thanks for the responses.

Could I trouble the two of you one last time for the actual numbers on the cans and bottles?

John

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HeavyArty

Member since
December 2002
From: Valrico, FL

Posted by HeavyArty on Monday, April 4, 2005 10:23 AM

QUOTE: Originally posted by Trigger74

I'm referring to the spray cans.

Me too. They are lacquer, I think, or an enamel, not acrylic. (I personally hate acrylics.) You can also get them in a bottle form and spray them through an airbrush. I actually have them in both forms and use either type, depending on the project.

Good luck.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

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Trigger

Member since
February 2004
From: Moooooon River!

Posted by Trigger on Monday, April 4, 2005 6:41 AM

I'm referring to the spray cans.

------------------------------------------------------------------ - Grant "Can't let that nest in there..."

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osjohnm

Member since
October 2003
From: Cape Town, South Africa

Posted by osjohnm on Monday, April 4, 2005 4:05 AM

Gino, Trigger,

Without sounding to ignorant, when refering to Testors gloss and dull coats above are they bottles or spraycans?
Are they acrylic, enamel or lacquer based?

Quinton is also from SA and his lhs stocks MM products and he has offered to try and find the items I'm looking for. I just want to make sure that I provide the correct info.

Thanks

John

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osjohnm

Member since
October 2003
From: Cape Town, South Africa

Posted by osjohnm on Saturday, April 2, 2005 4:25 PM

Gino, according to the hobbyshop near to my workplace model master isn't being imported into South Africa anymore. There is another shop that still has model master products but they have almost nothing left. I took the last 3 bottles of helo drab.

I can always try and order some from an international hobby site.

I tried out the Tamiya gloss acrylic on a fuel tank and so far so good. The wind has been blowing today so I didn't have a chance to try out the Humbrol flat.

Thanks for the input, I'l do some "shopping" to see who will deliver MM products internationally.

John

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Trigger

Member since
February 2004
From: Moooooon River!

Posted by Trigger on Friday, April 1, 2005 1:14 PM

Ditto that.

I used Testors Glosscote and Dullcoat on my Comanche (which was finished with Tamiya paint) and had no problem with discoloration. I normally use Model Master stuff but I've been trying out the Tamiya paints lately and I've been generally pleased. I plan on finishing my Little Bird in a base coat of gunship or euro 1 gray followed by a top coat of Tamyia's "NATO Black" (it has a nice, green tint to it and is lighter than regular flat black, but it goes on somewhat thin, hence the undercoats)

I do wish my Dullcote could be as flat as Gino's results, but I think that may have to do with the differences in humidity between where he and I live (desert vs. woodland)

------------------------------------------------------------------ - Grant "Can't let that nest in there..."

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HeavyArty

Member since
December 2002
From: Valrico, FL

Posted by HeavyArty on Friday, April 1, 2005 11:33 AM

QUOTE: Originally posted by osjohnm

My future experiment was a total disaster!
Mixing the tamiya flat base with future in a 1:6 ratio didn't work well either.
Some parts sort of turned out flat but the patchiness caused by the future is still visible.
The majority of the kit is still glossy! Atleast the kit was stuffed before I started.

Time for plan B. Plan to spray Tamiya Gloss Acrylic thinned with Tamiya thinners and then use Humbrol Flat coat and see what my results are. Luckily I have a few messed up kits lying around.

Hence the RAH-66 isn't getting touched until I find a technique that works.

Don't know if you can get your hands on Testors products in South Africa, but I have never had a problem using them. Spray Testors Glosscoat, decal, then a couple coats of Dullcoat and it turns out dead flat. Never had a problem, always good results. I pretty much only use Testors Model Master products to great success.

Hope that helps.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

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osjohnm

Member since
October 2003
From: Cape Town, South Africa

Posted by osjohnm on Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:13 AM

My future experiment was a total disaster!
Mixing the tamiya flat base with future in a 1:6 ratio didn't work well either.
Some parts sort of turned out flat but the patchiness caused by the future is still visible.
The majority of the kit is still glossy! Atleast the kit was stuffed before I started.

Time for plan B. Plan to spray Tamiya Gloss Acrylic thinned with Tamiya thinners and then use Humbrol Flat coat and see what my results are. Luckily I have a few messed up kits lying around.

Hence the RAH-66 isn't getting touched until I find a technique that works.

John

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osjohnm

Member since
October 2003
From: Cape Town, South Africa

Posted by osjohnm on Wednesday, March 30, 2005 1:56 AM

Hi guys

Just a quick progress update. The RAH-66 is nearly done. All thats left is a coat of future, decals, another coat of future, a panel wash and flat coat.
Therefore I'm hoping to be done by the end of the week.

Testing the future coats and mixing of tamiya flat and future on another kit that didn't turn out as planned.

John

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Cobrahistorian

Member since
December 2002
From: Aaaaah.... Alpha Apaches... A beautiful thing!

Posted by Cobrahistorian on Monday, March 28, 2005 5:26 PM

Sorry, I tried to get nice and close to it! I'll get a better shot in a minute!

"1-6 is in hot"

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Trigger

Member since
February 2004
From: Moooooon River!

Posted by Trigger on Monday, March 28, 2005 2:36 PM

Focus!

(...throws popcorn at the screen) Tongue [:P]

------------------------------------------------------------------ - Grant "Can't let that nest in there..."

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Cobrahistorian

Member since
December 2002
From: Aaaaah.... Alpha Apaches... A beautiful thing!

Posted by Cobrahistorian on Monday, March 28, 2005 12:43 AM

Ok guys, the Kiowa is up on its skids. I've gotta detail the joints, but I've successfully managed to put the modernized skids on this bird! Gotta do the seat harnesses and finish the detailing for the two dashboard-located M-4 carbines, but she's nearly ready for pre-shading and paint.

After that'll come decals, a HEAVY set of weathering with light tan and brown pastels and she'll be ready for service with the Quarter Cav!

"1-6 is in hot"

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osjohnm

Member since
October 2003
From: Cape Town, South Africa

Posted by osjohnm on Friday, March 25, 2005 3:09 PM

I applied some touchups and removed the masking around the mesh grills.
I also repainted the gun.

In the process one of the intakes inside came loose but isn't visible(luckily) and there is no way to get back inside without a lot of work.

As for the paint, came straight from the bottle. Would flat black primer have any effect on the paint finish?

John

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Cobrahistorian

Member since
December 2002
From: Aaaaah.... Alpha Apaches... A beautiful thing!

Posted by Cobrahistorian on Friday, March 25, 2005 12:14 PM

you know... in some light, Helo Drab does look kinda grayish! It may just be the lighting. Other than that, I've got no idea!

"1-6 is in hot"

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