Firebirds! Forest Fire Fighting Aircraft GB.

It will be nice to see an S-2 in something other than CDF markings.

There are a few options for custom decals depending on what you need. One of the easiest is just using microsoft word. You can use it for the lettering and by inserting cropped and edited photos of markings you can use it to scale logos and such. The Word art feature lets you make more fanciful lettering as well.

Microsoft paint can be used to make up logos fro scratch, then again inserting the finished design into word to adjust the final size.

That is the easy & cheap method since it uses a program most people already have. The downside it they are pixel based images so adjusting the size tends to distort the image and the detail is a little fuzzy on smaller images.

Testors offers a decal making program, but from what I've seen of the free sample and heard from people who bought the full program, it doesn't really offer much over the method I described above.   

If you expect to get serious about custom decals, vector based programs like Corel Draw work well. The images in a vector based program do not use pixels so there is no distortion when altering size, so you can make a nice big image, say 6x6" making it easy to draw in fine details, then shrink it down to 1/4 x 1/4" for your decal. You may lose some detail just because you can no longer see it, but it will be there at least down to the level of precision of your printer. These programs are not cheap, but sometimes you can get a student / teacher version which is far more reasonable in price. Another option would be to use the program somewhere else (library or college maybe?) then save the file as a pdf so you can print it elsewhere without needing the program. Sometime you can download a 30 day trial of a program which would work for a one time need (or work like crazy in that 30 days and make up a ton of decals ) 

The other issue is your printer, standard color inkjet and laser printers work fine for many decals, but don't do white or metallics, light colors (grey, yellow etc) can also be a problem on a dark colored model.

There are several brands of decal film, Micromark, Bare Metal Foil and Testors are ones I've used, but there are many others. They are available in clear and white film, and you need to buy them for your type of printer. You can not use inkjet film in a laser printer or the reverse.

The easiest option is just go with a custom decal maker. There are several out there, I sent some designs to diecast & decals earlier this year and they came back very nice. He uses an ALPS printer so white & metallics are possible. You could check with Joe Osborn at Fireball Modelworks too, I think he does some custom printing in addition to his regular line.

I know diecast and decals will also do design work in addition to printing if you send a photo of the decals you need. I did my own art work but he was very helpful giving me some instruction to tweak my designs for the best effect. Using a custom printer for you decals costs more than doing it yourself but compares to other aftermarket decals so is pretty reasonable.

http://diecastanddecals.com/

http://webpages.charter.net/osborn82/index.htm

Aaronw wrote:

Ok, well then unless someone else has an idea for a badge I'll clean those up.   I was wondering if anyone knows more about the P-47, I have seen one pic of the P-47 fitted with large underwing drop tanks supposedly from one of the tanker tests. Anyone know if any were ever used even semi-operationally and did the water drop out of the tanks like other tankers or was it supposed to drop the tanks like bombs. I know some of the earlier ideas were focused on "bombing" the fire with things like wooden kegs full of water. The first operational tankers were just Ag planes with up to 150 gallons of water, I would think a P-47 could have carried more if they figured out a tank system for it. I was thinking a P-47 tanker would be kind of neat even if it is a "what if" build, but would be more fun if they had actually used them a couple of times, kind of an old school Firehog.

Here's what I know about the P-47.

There were tests done using a 2 P-47Ns and a B-29 (this plane was named 'Rocky Mountain Ranger') by the U.S.F.S. in 1947. The P-47s were configured with water 'bombs' that were dropped above the fire. At a preset altitude, an explosive charge would blow the 'bomb' apart, spreading water over the burn area extenguishing the fire. Theoretically! From what I have read, the explosive charge did more to extinguish the fire than the water that was released. The B-29 also carried water 'bombs' internally.

There were plans to have 30 B-29s flying as water bombers during the 1948 season. Due to lack of funding the 'Rocky Mountain Ranger' was the only one to drop 'bombs'. 

As to whether either were actually used on a fire? I am not sure. Apparently the P-47s were as to the fact, stated, above about the explosive charge. 

I hope this helps. 

Hi Aaron,

That S58 is awesome.  Very nice! 

As a Fire Ranger, my first non-training flight was a crew re-location from Dryden, Ontario to Kenora, Ontario, in 1983.  10 Rangers and gear in the back with the door open!  Yee-haw!

What is interesting about that helo in Northern Ontario is the lack of skid gear.  99.99% of the terrain is uneven or beaver meadow (bog) so use of wheeled helo for helitack is quite limited to say the least.   I guess you have to make do with the tools at hand.

I will also be completing a started kit.   I started a Hobby Craft Grumman Tracker in the early 90's and got called away to an early fire season.   The Province of Ontario bought 6 or 8 of these aircraft from the Canadian Navy, when they scrapped the "Bonaventure", Canada's only aircraft carrier.  These landbased attack aircraft were used in Ontario to drop retardant for a couple of seasons in the late 1970's.  

This started kit is a bit banged up.   I found it in the toy box at least twice, so it deserves to be finished!  

I would appeciate learning about making my own decals.

Can anyone provide a link to a good site or provide advice?

Thanks,

Shouldda

Aaronw wrote:

chopperfan wrote: Yep! That's a pretty good book. There are a few pictures of some planes that I have been around when they were still flying.     Unfotunately that list is getting pretty short even for me, and I think you've been at it longer.

TBM's, F7F's, B-17's, C-54's, C-119's, C-123 and even an F-15A Reporter. I wish I could go back in time with my digicam and take some pictures. Most all of the pictures I had were destroyed by water damage or stolen during a burglary years ago. 

Better get off of here and get to building!! 

chopperfan wrote:

Yep! That's a pretty good book. There are a few pictures of some planes that I have been around when they were still flying.

Unfotunately that list is getting pretty short even for me, and I think you've been at it longer.

simpilot34 wrote:

I woulda been asking for some kind of compensation for that! Thats not right! False advertising if you ask me. Here is the Sherpa thats in my book. This photo is from airliners.net. The photos in my book show it flying and has views of the upper surfaces. , Richie

Yep! That's a pretty good book. There are a few pictures of some planes that I have been around when they were still flying.  

The red one is used by USFS smokejumpers, I got some photos of it at Willows, CA in 2005.

Not particularly relevent to the GB but kind of an interesting trivia bit. The USFS smokejumpers use round canopies with a static line deployment, while BLM smokejumpers freefall and use a rectangular canopy. 

I woulda been asking for some kind of compensation for that! Thats not right! False advertising if you ask me.

Here is the Sherpa thats in my book. This photo is from airliners.net. The photos in my book show it flying and has views of the upper surfaces.

, Richie

I've been after that Sherpa kit too, thought I had one a couple years ago but after several months of waiting the company I ordred it from cancelled my order since they had not been able to get one.

I hate when places list an item they don't stock.

back Randie! We were getting worried there for a bit. Nope don't have the Sherpa kit so don't be jealous. lol I have the Airfix Skyvan kit. Since they didn't use them, I prolly will go ahead with the original plan of doing it up in Austrian Air Force colors. You do have alot of irons in the fire, better get those builds finished to put the fire out!lol sorry had to say it.

, Richie

simpilot34 wrote:

S'ok cluke, still can't wait to see pics of her. I picked up a book at a used book store here in Australia. It's called "Fire Bombers in Action". It has pics of tankers of course, helos and jumper planes. If I could find a Shorts 360, would surely do it up as a jump plane. Have a Skyvan in my stash, but have already had the mindset to do it up in Austrian Air Force colors. That might change. Cheers, Richie

Not to bust your bubble, Richie. But, the U.S.F.S. and B.L.M. didn't use the Skyvan. They used the C-23A Sherpa. If you have the Airfix kit you will have to do some modifications to build the Sherpa. If you have the 1/72 Aeroclub Sherpa kit? I'm jealous!! The tail markings for the Sherpa are nothing more than a small, very small, 'U.S.F.S.'. Now the B.L.M. Sherpa's have a larger 'BLM' in white on them. As can be seen in this picture.

Aaronw wrote:

Bondoman, I don't know, it looks like his most recent post was Feb and I didn't see anything about leaving for awhile.   I'm going through and trying to finish up a bunch of my incomplete builds, some go back several years. Since this build is starting up again I thought I'd post the firefighting related ones as I finish them.   Anyway, I just finished this up, it is a Sikorsky S58 operated by Aircrane Inc in Atlanta, GA. They are primarily an airlifting outfit but do contract for firefighting services. I found some pics of this one from the 70's at airliners.com. I doubt they still have any of these piston engined helicopters in service but they do operate a fleet of the turbine S58T's in a slightly different paint job.           I used the 1/72 Italeri UH-34J kit basically OOB with decals I made on the computer.

OK, Aaron. Count me in. Now that I've got things squared away, I can take care of two GB's at once. I'll be in for a 1/72 Heller CL-215, a 1/72 Academy OV-10 Bronco in C.D.F. livery (these two were sent to me by Bondoman as a part of the 'Secret Santa 2; Rudolf's Revenge GB') and I will be attempting to convert a 1/72 Heller DC-6B to a C-54/DC-4 (thanks to Bondoman, again) in Aero Union livery.

I will also have a couple of others on the bench so I won't have idle hands. One, has not been officially released for sale so, I will be doing a review as I build it. Anyway, I'm gonna have to get busy. I've got a lot of irons in the fire but, I'm at home all day anyway. 

cdclukey wrote:

Yeah, when I looked around for pics to check my smoke jumper scheme against reality, I found a lot of pics of Shorts birds being used for that purpose, but few pics overall.   Here's a question you might be able to answer, since you have that book at hand: Do smoke jumper planes ever carry the prominent tanker-style numbers on the tail that tankers do?

No cluke the Shorts in my book doesn't have any numbers whatsoever other than the N#. Which is N175Z btw, if that helps. Also youcan try searching planes by Registration on airliners.net and see if it comes up. Otherwise I'll try and scan the pic from my book and post it. Aero Union also uses a Cherokee Six as a personnel transport that is in there tanker colors and has a big 2 on the vertical. N4096W is the rego.

Thanks Aaron for those sites! will have a looksie later.

Cheers, Richie

Unfortunately most smokejumper aircraft are contracted private aircraft and fairly unremarkable in appearance, however there are a few exceptions.

The USFS has a turbine DC-3 painted in the USFS red/white scheme, I've also seen a Twin Otter painted this way. Helicopters contracted to the Federal agencies also suffer this same blandness, but you do find some companies will paint their aircraft much more colorfully with agency logos etc.

As a what-if its up to you, the DC-6 would be a whopping huge smokejumper plane capable of dropping a couple of full crews. If such a thing were ever to exist it would probably be in Alaska where large crews of smoke jumpers are still a primary means of fighting fires. In the lower 48 it is more common to see 2-6 jumpers dropped on most fires.

Here is the more interesting USFS paint sceme used on a few aircraft

http://www.wildlandfire.com/pics/air7/dc3.jpg

http://www.wildlandfire.com/pics/air17/fsship2.jpg

Here are a couple of websites that might help you out. The US Forest Service and Bureau of Land Management are the only agencies in the US that have smokejumpers.

http://www.smokejumpers.com/

http://www.fs.fed.us/fire/people/smokejumpers/

http://www.fs.fed.us/fire/people/smokejumpers/aircraft.html

http://www.alaskasmokejumpers.com/

Yeah, when I looked around for pics to check my smoke jumper scheme against reality, I found a lot of pics of Shorts birds being used for that purpose, but few pics overall.

Here's a question you might be able to answer, since you have that book at hand: Do smoke jumper planes ever carry the prominent tanker-style numbers on the tail that tankers do?

S'ok cluke, still can't wait to see pics of her. I picked up a book at a used book store here in Australia. It's called "Fire Bombers in Action". It has pics of tankers of course, helos and jumper planes. If I could find a Shorts 360, would surely do it up as a jump plane. Have a Skyvan in my stash, but have already had the mindset to do it up in Austrian Air Force colors. That might change.

Cheers, Richie

Thanks, Richie. Actually, this bird won't be a tanker, she'll be for dropping smoke jumpers. She'll be as bright and beautiful as a tanker, though...I have a white, black and orange scheme desgned for it.

cdclukey wrote:

Looks like I'll be in on this one after all. I messed up the paint job on my CV-118 so badly that I'm going to strip it and start over, so I figured I'll try to do a firebird. If already started kits are OK, please list my Minicraft 1/144 DC-6B in the build, and if started kits aren't accepted, I'll still share the pics.

Thats fine CD. AaronW is in the same boat as far as already started kits. 1/144 Tanker? Can't wait to see pics of her!

Cheers, Richie

Looks like I'll be in on this one after all. I messed up the paint job on my CV-118 so badly that I'm going to strip it and start over, so I figured I'll try to do a firebird. If already started kits are OK, please list my Minicraft 1/144 DC-6B in the build, and if started kits aren't accepted, I'll still share the pics.

I like this kit, really no problems to speak of although the canopy is a bit fussy. Decent interior detail for 1/72 but I think Cobra Company makes a resin interior for those who want more.

Also a mistake in the instructions related to the landing gear. In the instructions they show the earlier style landing gear, not the landing gear in the kit (and the older style landing gear parts are not included). Not really a problem since they are fairly simple, but it leaves you scratching your head when you look at the parts you have and the drawings in the instructions until you figure out what happened. 

The S-58 looks great Aaron! I saw that kit and thought about buying it. How was the kit? Italeri is usually good quality. Excellent decals as well. i have the decal paper for our printer but haven't tried my hand at custom decals yet. I might have to when I build my Tanker 68. NICE WORK!

Cheers, Richie

Bondoman, I don't know, it looks like his most recent post was Feb and I didn't see anything about leaving for awhile.

I'm going through and trying to finish up a bunch of my incomplete builds, some go back several years. Since this build is starting up again I thought I'd post the firefighting related ones as I finish them.

Anyway, I just finished this up, it is a Sikorsky S58 operated by Aircrane Inc in Atlanta, GA. They are primarily an airlifting outfit but do contract for firefighting services. I found some pics of this one from the 70's at airliners.com. I doubt they still have any of these piston engined helicopters in service but they do operate a fleet of the turbine S58T's in a slightly different paint job.

I used the 1/72 Italeri UH-34J kit basically OOB with decals I made on the computer.

I'm wondering why Randie Coulter has not been a part of this. "Chopper Fan".

Is he ok? Do you know?

Thats great Shouldda! Glad you are teaching the new generation about this great hobby!<3 cheers

Cheers

Hi guys,

I like your enthusiasm and it should be rewarded in kind. 

 I will also commit to another.  It may be a DeHav Beaver on floats, Canso ( PBY) in Flying Fireman colours or something else I used to work with, I will decide over the weekend.

 As a note, I've spent the last couple of years teaching my kids how to build and paint.  We even have a Friday night modeling club where the kids from all over come and build.  You should see the glue and paint we use!

 This club put together a show of kits they've built and poster boards explaining the significance of the specific plane, ship or car.  This was displayed in the trophy case at the local school.  Everyone, young and older, went "WOW, that's awesome".  And you know what, it is! 

Thanks again for joining this build.

 Shouldda

Awesome, thanks for the tip. I've got a can of that spray adhesive (not 3M, but probably close enough) and I'll experiment with it.

cdclukey wrote:

Simpilot, how do you make that foil adhesive?

3M spray adhesive, and paint thinner. The spray adhesive had a blue label, and I had a can of testors airbrush thinner at the time, so I used that. The foil I used was a generic brand, the cheaper the better because its usually thinner. Tear off a sheet and place it on a flat surface. Pour a puddle of thinner into it. Spray the adhesive into the puddle. Mix it up with a piece of balsa sheet or scrap plastic as a spatula. Spread it out as thin as you can with even coverage. Let thinner evaporate, prolly around an hour or two. Then cut out, burnish with 1/8x1/4 balsa stick or Q-tip, trim and remove excess. It remains tacky for a few days afterwards so no rush to get it done in one evening. If it sets up, just make another batch. Experiment till your satisfied with the results.

Cheers

Simpilot, how do you make that foil adhesive?

Thanks for the info Aaron. I have used foil before on 1/72 and 1/48 and to me, what can look more real than the real thing, aluminum or aluminium depending where you are. There was an article in an FSM back in the 80's, my brother has the very first issue btw, of making your own foil adhesive. I tried it and it works very well. I did a testors 1/48 PT-20 shiny side out and it was a beautiful restored warbird polished look. I also did a testors 1/72 F-86 dull side out and it looked the part of the military finish. So i might stick to what I know and use some mettalizers aft and around the engine areas maybe.

As far as start date, nobody has mentioned one. I assume its just when evryone starts building.

Shouldda is there a start date, and could you please put a post in Aircraft as Aaron mentioned so we can get more members?

Cheers

So do we have a start date or if this is going to be a rolling build does it start just whenever people start building?

Also probably not a bad idea to drop a post into the aircraft and helicopter sections to lure some over that haven't seen this post. I only popped in to this section yesterday because I saw this post at the top so it showed on the main page.