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ARMOR - Tamiya 1/16 Tiger 1 Group Build

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  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, August 5, 2004 2:01 AM
wlad, probably on the rear deck while the Tiger stands in my room, not while driving around. Maybe I do a diorma with it.

WhiteWolf McBride, thanks for that info, you are right it's the PzGr. 39. I've seen a color picture of it, if you send me your pics I could post it tonight (german time ) with mine together.

www.boorad.de
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, August 5, 2004 2:26 AM
PzPabst:

Can you scan the box assembly instructions, and take measurements? Even if I can't afford the ammo set yet, I want to make my own ammo boxes for my kitty!

Box dims, and thickness of the wood used for assembly, please.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, August 5, 2004 10:40 AM
panzerpabst

any luck with the Fehrmann translation? I just need it's basic history so that i can put it on my build site.

The build is going slow, I was gonna use replacement side cables but i'm just gonna stick with the plastic part as i really can't wait to finish it. The BB barrel is still unusable so that's delaying things a bit. I was also gonna do my own periscope but i'm lacking reference materials so that's a no go. I'd love to have ammo/boxes but don't have the money atm just like WW, we're poor. HOwever, those can always be added at a later time =)
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, August 5, 2004 4:12 PM
WhiteWolf McBride, will do the job on Saturday.
Skrull, will post the results on Saturday.

Here are the 88-ammo pics from WhiteWolf McBride and one from mine:






here is a link to an interessting site with another ammo-pics:
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/tankammo.html

www.boorad.de
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: USA, GA
Posted by erush on Thursday, August 5, 2004 8:49 PM
Matthias, that ammo looks sweet, I may have to pick up some of that!!

Here's a little more progress on the Tigger...

Got the axe and the bolt cutters finished...




All 3 tools on the deck


That's all for now.

Eric
Hi, I'm Eric and I'm a Modelholic too. I think I have PE poisioning.     "Friendly fire...isn't"
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Newport News VA
Posted by Buddho on Thursday, August 5, 2004 9:24 PM
Wow..Eric....looks great....

Dan

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, August 6, 2004 6:12 AM
Eric,
thanks for the tip. I will be posting pictures sometime this weekend.
I will post the oictures of the work so far.

I will get the camera out and will try to make realy sharp and good pictures.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 8, 2004 9:11 AM
skrull , you can get an zip-archiv with pics and the translation of the story of the fehrmann group here :
http://www.boorad.de/Body/Tiger/additional/fehrmann.zip
whiteWolf, you can get an zip-archive with the manual and messurements.text file here :
http://www.boorad.de/Body/Tiger/additional/aber_ammo.zip
because i will need the stencil for applying the text of the cover of the box only just one time first I could send it to you via air mail. If other guys need it send it to them and one day it will return to me via air mail (i hope Smile [:)] )

please let me know whether you have problems getting or handling this zip-files or you have more questions.

one more pic of the completed ammo box with ammo here :
www.boorad.de
  • Member since
    April 2004
  • From: S.C. Beach
Posted by roowalker on Sunday, August 8, 2004 5:55 PM
F.Y.I., "Gauntlett",available through M&Models,offers some incredible
brass nuts,bolts,&rivets that really help on the big "Kitty". Their 1mm.
bolts have correct head size,[Aber's are too big],+.8mm that are great
for replacing some of the Aber photo-etch stuff. Nice .4mm rivets that
help as well.
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: USA, GA
Posted by erush on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:35 PM
roowalker, thanks for the link. they've got some neat stuff.

Here's another pic for y'all.


Eric
Hi, I'm Eric and I'm a Modelholic too. I think I have PE poisioning.     "Friendly fire...isn't"
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, August 12, 2004 8:12 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by roowalker

F.Y.I., "Gauntlett",available through M&Models,offers some incredible
brass nuts,bolts,&rivets that really help on the big "Kitty". Their 1mm.
bolts have correct head size,[Aber's are too big],+.8mm that are great
for replacing some of the Aber photo-etch stuff. Nice .4mm rivets that
help as well.


Hi Roowalker,

I checked out the site...thanks !
Which items did you find usefull for the Aber NUTS?

Thanks,
Mike
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: USA, GA
Posted by erush on Thursday, August 12, 2004 2:24 PM
I got the fire extenguisher finished up for the tiger now...I love the detail that this Aber gives but boy is it a lot of work Tongue [:P]









Still more to come...
Eric
Hi, I'm Eric and I'm a Modelholic too. I think I have PE poisioning.     "Friendly fire...isn't"
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, August 12, 2004 8:53 PM
Well, this decides it...

Seeing all this detail has made me decide: much as I would like to have it, I'm no longer capable of doing the work. I shattered the rear fender assembly three times while attempting final assembly, and may end up buying the metal-castings. God knows what I'll do for the front end, as I've already cut the mud-flaps off.

So... my Aber is for sale. Again. Anyone wishing a listing of the frets available for sale, let me know.

And please guys, don't try to talk me out of it unless you are volunteering to assemble the parts for me by soldering (*laughs*)

deciding to give up while he has some patience and sanity left...
  • Member since
    April 2004
  • From: S.C. Beach
Posted by roowalker on Friday, August 13, 2004 6:32 AM
Hey White Wolf !!
Got to agree with you,this is just overwelming in time& skill for me, too.
I'm going with just bits& pieces of the Aber,some of my own stuff in plastic
& brass, and thats it!! Tow cables from Dirk, cleaning rods,& cable hardware,
tool clamps,& thats it.. Done a K.T. twice,& a T I couple a years ago like this
& I think they're fine. Aber "MaxiPack" is O.K. but not for me... BTW, Tamiya
should offer that front piece you cut up, I bought several extra sprues from
them when I did my first TI ...
All Best, Roowalker
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Newport News VA
Posted by Buddho on Friday, August 13, 2004 8:42 PM
Nice work Eric....What color will it be... Red, yellow or metal? Wink [;)]

Dan

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: NE Georgia
Posted by Keyworth on Friday, August 13, 2004 9:05 PM
Very slick work again, Eric. Keep it up. WW, are you going into the used PE business?
Cool [8D]
"There's no problem that can't be solved with a suitable application of high explosives"
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, August 13, 2004 10:37 PM
Keyworth:

Looks like it, you interested in the listing? If so, p-mail me your address, and I'll e-mail you the frets-listing. Anyone else interested, fire away.

Roo:

The T1 front fenders are molded as part of the main hull. Cut 'em off and you have 3 options: leave 'em off, replaced 'em with Aber, or buy a new lower hull assembly. Looks like I have to try for #2 unless BYA releases a cast front fender.
  • Member since
    April 2004
  • From: S.C. Beach
Posted by roowalker on Saturday, August 14, 2004 6:58 AM
White Wolf,
Front fenders are part of sprue # 0003653,but if you glued 'em together w.
hull & front plate,the Aber may be only option or go naked, which doesn't
look bad on the T I , IMO...
Roowalker
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 14, 2004 9:05 AM
White Wolf, the Aber stuff is hard stuff. If I would build another Tiger I think I would only use some parts not the complete kit.

The picture belows shows my solution for fixing the gear boxes against moving (the brass rods on each side of the hull). I did this to glue in the front hull and front plate and keep the gears removable.



www.boorad.de
  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: London, UK
Posted by Wlad on Saturday, August 14, 2004 10:43 PM
Hi guys, please excuse me a lot to say and a bit (lot) drunk.

Erush, Great work!!!! Its inspiring! I think my crew wont be able to use my extinguisher like yours. By the way is there any truth to the rumour you have a special 1:1 scale Aber set and a secret formula for shrinking it to 1:16 scale in a microwave? Lol!!!

Stupid question time:

How did you remove all the tamiya extenguishers detail so successfully and still keep the shape so well?

Going back aways to the periscopes under hatches, when you say they are moveable, would they pop up into the area above the deck into the applicable area and be viewable from outside? I've seen a hint of this on the Frank Hemling model www.tamiya.de with the "loaders viewport". Is it the way they would work?

Roo and Whitewolf,

I agree with Roo that the naked tigers are lovely! There is something quite brutal about them that I love. In fact I was going to go that route before I knew about Aber and got seduced by all that brass. If I ever finish my Tiger I may do another without all the glitz and really stripped down. I've seen some beautiful models like this that all somehow convey the sheer power of the tank by its "nakedness."


Whitewolf and all others like myself

I tried several times to get my fenders together with CA - all reasonably ok and then attached them to the chassis, and then the real test - apply a little lite pressure like you "nudge" something when driving. Result - Aber parts again! I thought it was me doing things badly or the brand of CA.

I've seen two flat steel plates glued together with 1 drop of CA hold the weight of a man. And then sometime ago I read a tip for glueing small parts - glue them to the tweezer tips and then to the model - twist the tweezers to release... what gives?

Apparently CA has fantastic lateral strength and poor torsional strength. CA just isnt up to whats required for 3D bits - well at least for the bits where its likely to get torsionally stressed.

Moral of the story is is ya gonna drive it and bump it, solder it! Even with soldering side skirts etc, they are going to go with a good bump - real battle damage! I think CA will be perfect for all the little details that will hopefully never get banged.

So I embarked upon the soldering route for front and back fenders and side skirts...

This is my crazy low tech hands off method thats been successful for me!

Being the complete novice and Klutz that I am, thought I should research and then experiment. After several disasters I discovered a product called "Carr's 188 Solder Paint" made in the UK. It's solder particles mixed with flux in thickish paint form, water soluble. Theory is if you can paint it you can solder it...

What I do is thoroughly clean the parts with a fibreglass "scratch pen" (IMPORTANT: do this in your wet sink with loads of water and some suds - otherwise those fibreglass bits break off and go everywhere!!! and hurt like hell!!!!!) then use multiple aligator clips and/or a "helping hand" or "third hand" stand, self closing tweezers, etc to firmly hold the two parts together in the desired position. Then apply the solder paint to the area you want soldered. It doesnt naturally flow, first brush seems to apply flux only, second pass immediately after seems to apply some grey gunk. Get a nice covering of grey gunk in there. With some parts I apply the solder paint to both part's faces and then position the parts together and clamp. I think the secret is clamping. If you can firmly position it with a clamp or tweezers and be hands free, it aint going to move with a bit of heat applied. Excess solder paint can be removed at this stage with a clean brush and water. Then I apply the heat using a disposable and adjustable flame cigarette lighter! 10 lighters for one UK Pound!

It seems its best to first apply the heat slowly to evaporate the water in the solder paint - it goes from wet looking to dry looking. If you dont it can be prone to spitting. Then zap it on full flame (the tip of the blue part of the flame at the area you want soldered) directly or directly underneath the parts. The tip of the blue flame is the hottest part. It takes only a few seconds to get going (apply to one area only and work your way along) and you'll notice it transforming from dried gunky grey paint to liquid flowing metal before your eyes - if it bubbles/boils its a bit too much heat. Take the flame away - ouch those lighters get hot! Dont touch anything for a while and then unclamp, pick it up with tweezers and clench it in water. Now it looks shit. All sorts of grey gunk as a join. This seems to be flux leftovers. Take your fibreglass scratch pen and scrub it gently. Hey presto a ugly looking soldered joint!

Now solder is easy to clean up, use a scalpel to scrape away bits, grab a fine metal file or sand it, choice is yours. First I use the file and then the secret weapon -the scratch pen again! (in the sink with water) It gets right in there! keep going to your hearts content, you can effectively remove all the solder and only polish the Aber parts - I stop when it has a suitable amount left to give the join some strength is smooth and looks close enough to our static model buddies CA joins!

Practise first, then move on to larger Aber eg, side skirts and you'll soon get the hang of it. I have successfully managed to do my front and back fenders, and side skirts using this method including those pesky wingnuts (without probs). I do one join at a time, clean it up and move on. Now I use a combination of lighter and soldering iron, whatever seems right for the size. If you are doing a joint close to a previous one, clamp both joints to be safe!

How do I get rid of the CA from my first attempt? Use the cigarette lighter again, one or two seconds of heat and they ping apart (dont breath the fumes, in fact hold your breath! This is likely to be some form of cyanide gas!) Then use the fibreglass scratch pen to clean up th muck.

If soldering goes wrong, clamp, apply blue flame and slide apart with tweezers. Clean up and try again!

Sans camera or would post pics. Will post pics when camera returns as proof that the low tech method works!

Need sleep and sausages!

Wlad.


  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 15, 2004 9:21 AM
Wlad, old buddy...

Nice trick... can you get me a proper name of the label so I can get the North American equivalent? I gotta get a new iron though, my Weller soldering station quit on me, and I hate the butane pens (though I may try one of the ones that taps the disposable lighters)

Safe way to de-CA...

Boil the suckers! I know I've gotten CA'd tires off salvagable RC rims that way, and removed JB-Weld too! Just watch out for the small parts, and pick up your own strainer at the dollar store, or the wife might get a tad miffed.

Belly plates?

And what about the report on my plate, hmmm? I'm hoping there are a few 'potentials' waiting on your report, and if its favorable, I'll get a few more.

And BIG antenna news...

The 1101 Deans antennas? There may be a cheaper way, if you can find a source for 1.5 microHenry (+/- 5%) coils. Thats all the Deans 1101's are: 7.25" of 1/32" piano wire, the coil, and a 8.5" pigtail of 30 gauge antenna wire with a micro-connector set. (off to source coils...)

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 15, 2004 11:39 AM
Well, my TIger build is still delayed thanks to the BB barrel but at least it gave me time to actually work on my website which I'm happy to say is 80% complete -i'm still working on some two pages but the majority is there.

The website is http://www.tigerbuild.co.uk - have a look and let me know what you think. If I've missed anything out or if there's anything you want to see there, let me know. Also, if you want your tiger build pics and progress shown, let me know also and I'll include them in the Tiger Company's page, whjich I'm still working on =)
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: USA, GA
Posted by erush on Sunday, August 15, 2004 9:26 PM
Thanks for the props guys!

Wlad, to get the kit detail off I use my Xuron flush cutters to carefully nip off a little at a time working around or a long a part which get's it close to smooth. Then I use an x-acto or a file or corse grit sanding stick to clean that up, then a med and fine sanding stick. Just take it slow and you can keep the shapes. If I accidentally gouge a place out I'll fill it with CA and resand it.
On the hatches I just meant that the latches do move, but once the hatch is shut there's no way to get to the handle and actually close the latches. I just get into the build sometimes and like to make stuff functional even if there's no real need for it. I got the rest of the tools on the deck, now it's on to the tow cables which aren't going to be too easy.

I would like to see some pics of your stuff when you can get them posted.

Here's the latest deck shot, minus the jack block.


Eric

Hi, I'm Eric and I'm a Modelholic too. I think I have PE poisioning.     "Friendly fire...isn't"
  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: London, UK
Posted by Wlad on Monday, August 16, 2004 7:33 AM
Hi guys,

I am in hangover mode after a years worth of alcohol over a weekend (sorry about the previous long post, but here's another) and have a little time at work so I found the place where I bought the "Carr's 188 solder paint" on the net for Whitewolf but decided to dig further for the manufacturer.

You'll never believe this - it seems the manufacturers website is... http://www.finescale.org.uk

Good news WW! They have a Canadian and worldwide distributers!

They seem to be "Casey Jones" wannabees (railroad modellers) and seem to have this small scale soldering stuff sussed. Besides the solder paint there is also this which gob-smacked me...


"SOLDER CREAM. 
In the articles we have written on Solders and Soldering, we have always been a bit sniffy about Solder Pastes and Creams. In our experience they needed constant remixing, tended to dry out, spat all over the place when you used them and did not always create strong joints. Now we are having to eat our words!  To be effective, Solder Cream must possess a combination of qualities: The solder must be the right particle size and shape and must be allied to a flux with good wetting properties. In addition, it should be capable  of being placed in tiny amounts. 

Our creams are outstanding. They have spherical particles in the range 25/45 um, (check out published data on other makes and see how much bigger their particle sizes are), and this is mixed with a flux which has brilliant wetting qualities.  It has been developed for PCB/Aerospace industries and is supplied in a syringe designed to fit the automatic dispensing machines used in the electronic industries. We have added a normal hypodermic type plunger. When used with our nozzle, you will be able to deposit the tiniest amount of cream, exactly where you need it. It gives good clean workmanlike joints, with the minimum of cleaning up - ideal for etched brass kits, etc. It is a Tin/Lead/Silver Solder and the melting temperature is 179 Deg. C.   This product has been widely discussed on the GOG and Scalefour elists. Everyone who contributed said it is the finest solder they have ever used.

Product Code C1016 - £15.00 per syringe.

NEW!   SOLDER CREAM WITH A MELTING TEMPERATURE OF 138 DEG C. 
We have been testing a new low melt solder cream. It has a melting temperature of 138 Deg C. making it ideal for a wide range of uses. (With care, it can be used to solder white metal castings direct to brass and nickel silver). It is supplied in a hypodermic syringe, complete with a nozzle, containing 35 grams of the cream. It is free flowing and you can place the tiniest drop - soldering without having to clean up afterwards! Brass and nickel silver solder best when wiped over with a phosphoric acid flux. Our Yellow Label Flux is ideal for this purpose.

To find a cream with this melting temperature is amazing. To have found one with a Tin/Bismuth content, i.e. no Cadmium, is quite astonishing. We are addicted to the stuff and now seem to use nothing else.  There is only one drawback - the price. If you are used to paying a few bob for bog standard 60/40 solder, (and perhaps at the same time wondered why soldering is considered a black art...), then you might faint clean away at the price.  Product Code C1017:   £27.00 per syringe. "



Sounds serious! Imagine being able to use this with the full Aber! Somebody has to be the guinea pig (any volunteers?) I need a little encouragement...

Wlad.

Will post again very soon.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 4:36 AM
Wlad...

I'd offer to test the stuff, BUT...

It appears that the Canadian distributor has changed its e-mail without notifying C&L, or perhaps its C&L that has failed to update their site in a timely manner.

Update:

After a thought, I did a Google search for their name " British Scale Models " and blammo, there they were. Indeed, they have moved, and C&L has neglected to update their site. I have notified BSM, and hope C&L will get an earful.

For any other Canucks:

British Scale Models (Canada) Ltd.
P.O. Box 45502, Westside R.P.O.
Vancouver, B.C. V6S 2N5
Phone: (604) 224-0834
Fax: (604) 224-4237
Email: sales@bsmcl.com

  • Member since
    April 2004
  • From: S.C. Beach
Posted by roowalker on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 6:08 AM
Hey WhiteWolf!!
This may be a real help,& price, considering investment so far,is acceptable.
However, my approach is still to concentrate on what Tamiya left off the Beast,
rather than replacing stuff that is already satisfactory,ie,fenders.Out of scale
tow cables gotta go,etc.But this project, for me,is not like the TOTAL rebuild
my 1:16 K.T.s required to be presentable..I'm not going there again.
Roowalker
  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: London, UK
Posted by Wlad on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 9:56 AM
Hi all,

My time allocation is all unbalanced at the moment. Lots of time at work to do what I want and none at home to do what I want - means very little progress. No camera means I can't post pics, even if I got the time at home :(

Whitewolf,
C&L claim to ship worldwide direct but if you have any trouble getting what you want I'll make the purchase here and ship it.
Belly plate report will come in time!
CA soup! Great tip! Much more elegant and effective than applying a blowtorch! Mmm, wonder if we can convince Erush to try it on his hatch & periscope assemblies!

Abermeister Erush,
Big thanks for the Tamiya de-detailing tips, that really helps me. I think you are doing an amazing job and really look forward to your posts. I'm just trying to understand the periscope bits and if its possible to make them somehow viewable from the outside like this (top pic)
http://www.tamiya.de/include.php?path=content/articles.php&contentid=203&PHPKITSID=ba71770064e77217711691ca005232d6

Skrull,
Great website (check it out guys if you haven't already!) and I'm completely blown away by your steel wheels! All that time and effort, you should be selling them! I like the additional finer screens too, great to see the reference photo, and the flat hatch too! if you need another aluminium tube to hack let me know, its yours free of charge - I just can't morally justify selling it on ebay. If Skrull is fine, anyone else is welcome to it, as long as you use it, and dont just sell it on.

My plans are to go backwards, fit that belly plate (mmm, nice), install the Wecohe suspension! texture some of the hull like PanzerPabst, add some subtle weld seams, somewhere in amongst that get my camera back (or get a new one) and then get back to the Aber... I'll still be going in 2010 at this rate...

Wlad.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Ok, lets try again!
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 5:59 AM
Like a total noob I managed to post this in the wrong topic, so I'll try again. Apologies to all who ended up reading this twice

As a change from my normal hobbies I bought a 1/16 Tiger Full Option kit on eBay. I have little modelling skill (not built a model in 25 years!) and am completely ham-fisted when it comes to painting but for a number of reasons I'd like to make a good job of it.

After going through the posts on this forum I've picked up a few tips and much inspiration, there are some seriously talented people here! I've picked up metal tracks, replacement barrel and recoil upgrade from BYA and am considering the suspension upgrade as well.

I've also noted a few recommendations of the Zagi (and possibly Graupner) Speed 400 motors when metal track are used. Could anyone with either motor tell me exactly which motors they have (model no?), also did you get a left/right pair or reverse one yourself? I think I've found a source in the UK but they need a bit more information than I can give them

Is there a summary of the mods/tweaks/fixes you guys have done anywhere? I'm especially keen on anything that would make it more robust/realistic as a working model.

This group seems the best source of information on the net for this kit, any and all comments appreciated.

Steve
  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: London, UK
Posted by Wlad on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:32 AM
Welcome Steve!

You are in good company, only joined a little while ago myself and its my first in a few more than 25 years (I was 2 at the time!)

I think most would agree that Whitewolf is the man with the answers about the motors and about beefing it up too! Wait for him to post . Have a good look at his previous posts in this section too for a good idea of the situation.

Realism - the sky is the limit, you really need to decide roughly how far you want to go. You can build it straight from the box, add a few little tweaks here and there or go "all the way" with the full Aber Photo Etch (PE) set specially made for this model, or anywhere inbetween or even scratchbuild your own bits. Warning: you will go nuts, if you go the full Aber route but its part of the fun (I think). It seems sensible people choose which bits and pieces they want to improve or add to the Tamiya kit and go from there. The Aber is available in separate packs to help you with this. Be prepared to learn the hard and frustrating way and expect some disasters along the way! Well, thats the way it is for me.
Personally I think it a good idea to decide which Tiger you want to model before starting the build by researching and researching and researching. You may decide to just go with one of those suggested in the Tamiya manual. The best references we have for realism are photos from the time, research that other people have compiled and our own collective brains, so grab all the Tiger reference (photographic pics) books you can afford, or trawl the net, or both, and then pick one that takes your fancy or one similar to that depicted in a photo that corresponds with the Tamiya kit or that can be made from the kit. Choice is yours. A good example of this is Skrulls website http://www.tigerbuild.co.uk The whole process all helps you know what bits to add, subtract or modify to create a realistic model of your choice. I hope this helps you a little and others add their comments. I spent at least 6 months reading as much as possible, learning, drooling at pics and changing my mind.
Not aware of a summary of all the mods/tweaks/fixes available, anyone else? Its a good idea. How about starting it as a secondary project running alongside your build? I'm sure we can all chip in a few and Scrull might be generous enough to let us put it in one central place on his website?

Wlad.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:33 AM
Wlad
thanks for the encouraging comments and yeah I did think of marketing the wheels but the production took up too much of my time to make that feasable and with all the repairs i was doing, really didn't fancy doing that on a daily basis. I'm thinking of redesigning it to utilise the KT metal rim, which means it won't have the details at the back but it might actually be a lot easier to produce. However, BA might soon be releasing their own steel wheels so there wouldn't be any point in me doing it.

I'm still waiting for the mini drill stand to arrive but i think i'm okay on the barrel, i'm gonna be real careful when i finally modify the BB. If i bodge that, then i'm just gonna get the schumo barrel. I can't be asked to do any more work ;) i wanna get on to the painting and weathering
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