Panzer Aces GB January 2007 to May 31, 2008

Thanks for the info Hermisminiatures.  Sorry it took so long for me to respond.  My wife, oldest daughter and I got nailed hard with the flu and have been pretty much bed ridden since Monday.  I think this is the sickest I've ever been.  What a great way to burn up vacation time. 

I'm inclined to think that 101, 201 etc. would be the numbering scheme as it's consistant with German numbering.  What muddies it all up is a JagdTiger that was captured by the allies numbered X7 as seen in the photo below.  So perhaps the numbering scheme changed at some point during the 512th very brief history.  If I can pin down some exact dates we might be able to figure this one out.  Maybe they started off with the conventional numbering and switched to the X and Y designations as their numbers dwindled? 

Here you go, the first is a 512th Jagdtiger showing the unit emblem, the second is an organizational diagram.

It's debatable if the hull numbers of the company command vehicles were X1, Y1 or 101, 201...either can be considered accurate. Albert Ernst commanded the 1st company, Otto Carius the 2nd. It's pretty certain that Ernst wasn't in 101 at the end of the war, due to the frequent breakdowns and mount swapping that occured with the Jagdtigers - so you could almost pick a number from the 1st company and be accurate. 

Scott, I've done some research already for Carius' Jagdtiger, as you probably know he and Albert Ernst commanded the two companies of sPzJgAbt 512 (we've almost got a mini-GB going here)

The vehicles were, according to several sources, marked with X* fror 1st kp. and Y* for 2nd kp. The Jagdtigers of the 512th also bore a black-and-silver bear insignia, I have a picture I'll find after lunch. 

espins1 wrote:

Most excellent John, I really appreciate the heads up.  I think you have saved me a lot of grief, especially with the rear idler setup.  I was a bit perplexed when it came time to attach the road wheels, drive sprocket and rear idler.  There is nothing to indicate the angle that the idler arm needs to be installed.  I was trying to figure out the best way to handle that and now it totally makes sense to wait to the very end to attach those when I'm ready to put the Friuls on so then I can get the tension just right. Thanks again John!

Glad to be of service, my friend.

You don't know it yet, but all research into the markings and camo of the 512th has also helped me with my Jadgtiger. I also consulted Panzer Colors III (my only source) and painted accordingly (Dark Yellow w/ no markings). Now, I'm wondering if I should leave it as is or repaint and rewash...or at least add some markings. Hmmm...  I'll guess I'll wait a little and see if you happen to discover anymore "nuggets" concerning the 512th. Thanks again!

-John

Most excellent John, I really appreciate the heads up. 

I think you have saved me a lot of grief, especially with the rear idler setup.  I was a bit perplexed when it came time to attach the road wheels, drive sprocket and rear idler.  There is nothing to indicate the angle that the idler arm needs to be installed.  I was trying to figure out the best way to handle that and now it totally makes sense to wait to the very end to attach those when I'm ready to put the Friuls on so then I can get the tension just right.

Thanks again John! 

I'll try and be descriptive and brief. It took a little planning (head scratching) and some scratch building but, I managed to correct most of the errors.

Tamiya suspension/road wheels, etc.  this ain't - so to speak. I like the way a Tamiya suspension with the poly caps is "rollable". Makes it easy to put the Fruils on. Kinda' like doing it on the real thing. Check the fit of the suspension arms (B1) for the rear idler wheels to the hull...mine were really sloppy...lots of play and NO locating pin, slot, key, etc. I used plastic tubing (drilled out to accommodate the idler arms) in the hull to tighten things up. You have to leave the arms moveable until you're ready to mount the tracks, then you can eyeball the spacing of the rear idler wheel to the last road wheel, apply cement and you're done. Also the way the drive sprockets have to be cemented to the final drives (A6) leaves plenty of room for error and ought to be stronger to support the metal tracks. I used gap filling super glue to make the joint. In hindsight, I'd probably just cut off the mounting "pins" on the final drives drill them out and insert a metal axle thru the hull to hold the drive sprockets. I used 96 tracks on one side and 94 on the other, (this is due to the leading and trailing idler arm arrangement).

The kit's lack of side skirts works to your advantage. You can also remove the outer fenders on rear fenders C8 & C9, like I did or remove them and scratch build them as folded over. This will give you some room to work around the rear idlers when the time comes. You'll also want to shave off the mounting pads/tabs on the front fenders for the non-existent side skirts.

I left the travel lock for the cannon off the front plate, until I had the superstructure (C36) mounted to the hull. The reason for this is that the hull (@ the front tow points) needs to be spread slightly to fit the superstructure nose into the slots in the hull because of the cannon assy. located in the hull. I didn't want to have the travel lock pop off whilst applying a little "persuasion". You can avoid this altogether if you leave off the superstructure front (D38), until you have the superstructure (C36) mounted to the hull. You'll probably have to fill & rework the armor mortise joints on the hull superstructure sides once you attach the superstructure front (D38) to the hull regardless.

Leave the rear doors off or at least open until you get the gun mantle/gun tube set. You'll be able to hold the cannon assembly located in the interior from the inside as you mount the gun tube and mantle assy. from the front. This will make your life easier! The fit of the gun tube (D1 & D2) to the gun mantle (D37) was really sloppy also. I wound up inserting a piece of plastic tubing (drilled out to accommodate the gun barrel) in the mantle to take up the slack. I also added a scratch built gun tube to replace the kit's plastic one. This is optional but, metal or plastic you still need to take up the slack in the gun mantle.

Hope this helps.

-John

the Postman wrote:

Scott- Sorry, I haven't chimed in for some time, but as always I'm keeping an eye on the GB. I'll elalorate later. Nice work on the Jadg. Is that Dragon's #6050 ?? I'm building that one for another GB and yours looks oddly familiar. I put Fruils on mine had wanted to warn you of some problems that I had- if you're building #6050 that is. -John

Hi John, yes it is kit 6050 and I am using Friuls on it as well (Friulmodel ATL-16).  I'd be very interested to know of any problems you encountered so I can at least be prepared to deal with them. 

Scott- Sorry, I haven't chimed in for some time, but as always I'm keeping an eye on the GB. I'll elalorate later. Nice work on the Jadg. Is that Dragon's #6050 ?? I'm building that one for another GB and yours looks oddly familiar. I put Fruils on mine had wanted to warn you of some problems that I had- if you're building #6050 that is.

-John

I made some more great progress yesterday.  The rear door assemblies are complete and have been attached to the rear, upper hull plate.  They actually open and close!  I need to do a little tweaking of the hinges to get them to lined up just right, although I'll probably display them with the doors open so it's really a moot point.  I ended up making my own door handles out of thin straight pins using needle nosed pliers.  One of the original plastic handles literally disintegrated when I tried to remove it from the sprue, so I just made replacements.

Another reference I found online indicates that Albert Ernst's JagdTiger was numbered X1, and the camo was a dark green basecoat, with red brown and dark yellow patches. 

That would seem consistant with camo practices at the time, not to mention the vast majority of JagdTiger pics that I've come across, and what appears to be dark green on the gun mantlet and gun barrel from the YouTube video.

I found this little snippet from a review of a book called

Title: Jagdtiger, The Most Powerful Armoured Fighting Vehicle of World War II - Volume I - Technical History

Author: Andrew Devey

Publisher: Schiffer Publishing, Atglen, Pennsylvania, 1999

ISBN: 0-7643-0750-9 Format:

"Along with this some very interesting shots are presented of 3.Company vehicles which were new to me, including one carrying a "Y" marking (vs. the "X" call signs seen on Ernst's 1.Co mounts; "X1", "X5", & "X7" etc.). "

This would seem to corroborate the info on the number schemes for Ernst's unit having an X and a number.  I would venture to guess that Ernst's JagdTiger was marked "X1"?  Does anyone have this book?  And if so, can you see if there is anything more concrete?

Wow, I found a YouTube video that documents the surrender Albert Ernst's unit to allied forces in Iserlohn Germnay durring the battles of the Ruhr pocket.

The first 3 minutes of the video shows a JagdTiger being put through it's paces on a proving ground (looks like a porsche chassis).  That thing really leaves its footprint in the ground when it turns! 

Minutes 3 through 5 document the surrender of the surviving JagdTigers of Ernst's unit.  There is some great footage of the 3 remaining JagdTigers driving through the town and then lining up on the "parade" ground.  The last several minutes of the video contains a hokey advertisement of the M-10 Tank Destroyer... funny stuff. 

As far as I can tell from the video the JagdTigers were in fact Dark Yellow, however the barrels seem darker.  hmmmmm 

I also came across a forum post somewhere that alluded to a number scheme for Ernst's unit that used the letter X and a number.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hhd7PD8EGJg

Well, I'm trying to pin down the color scheme and the numbering used on Albert Earnst's JagdTiger with sPzJgAbt 512.  The excerpt below indicates a solid dark yellow scheme.

According to Panzer Colors III by Bruce Culver:

Jagdtiger Abteilung 512  was formed in the late fall of 1944 and was equipped with twenter Jagdtiger heavy tank destroyers, mounting 12.8cm PaK 44 L/55 guns on modified Tiger II ausf B chassis.  There were two companies, each with ten vehicles.  Two Jagdtigers were in each company HQ section, and four Jagdtigers were in each of the two platoons.  Though very heavy, and limited by its requirements for good roads and bridges, the Jagdtiger was a very effective tank destroyer, able to knock out virtually any Allied tank at very long range.

The Jagdtigers of JgJgrAbt 512 were overall Dark Yellow.  No numbering system is known.  The only photographs of this unit's vehicles show very heavy applications of foliage as supplementary camouflage, covering most of the superstructure.

The two companies, named "Company Carius" and "Company Ernst", fought as separate units.  "Company Ernst" was reinforced with a platoon of Sturmgeschutz, one PzKpfw IV, and a platoon of self-propelled 3.7cm flak guns.  Both companies fought in Germany's last battles, and surrendered to US forces in the Ruhr.

And here is a better quality version of the same photograph from "Heavy Jagdpanzer - Development, Production, Operations" by Walter J. Spielberger, Hilary L. Doyle and Thomas L. Jentz, a Schiffer Military History Book.

I have yet to find in reference to a vehicle number, or a numbering scheme used by this unit.  Any ideas out there?  Since Ernst commanded his company, his JagdTiger was one of two in the HQ section.  I suppose I could keep digging and try to figure out what numbering scheme might have been used here.... or hopefully someone out there has that one little "golden nugget" of info that could solve the riddle right now. 

*IGNORANCE ALERT!*

Wouldn't it pretty much have to be a Sherman for an Allied Aces GB? At least from the U.S. side? I'll admit my knowledge level on allied aces is dubious at best...an M10/M18/M36 would really be the only other option, wouldn't it?

Going on, were there many allied aces that were non-U.S.? The British field many?

Hermesminiatures wrote:

And so why sitting on the bed? Has a mysterious chair thief gone on a crime spree out there in Reno?

  Unfortunately, the hard drive on our HD DVR downstairs took a dump, so I've been camping out upstairs in the kitchen and bedroom with my mobile work bench so I can watch my DVR'd shows.  It also allows me to hang out with my wife while at the same time being able to make progress on my builds.   

I think there are a bunch of GBs that all end in May, so if it becomes a little to tight for anyone we can move it out to the end of June if necessary. 

And cool about the badge for the allied build, I'm looking forward to building one of my uber Dragon Sherman kits! 

And so why sitting on the bed? Has a mysterious chair thief gone on a crime spree out there in Reno?

The Jagdtiger is looking good! 

I'm working on a Jagdpanzer for Hunters right now (which I'm also hopefully taking to a show March 1st, that's why the unusual phenomenon of me working on the same project for three weeks straight) but as soon as that's done, I plan on starting my Carius Jagdtiger, complete with Jaguar interior

Do we have any tenative finish date yet?

EDIT: how about reading back a few posts or looking at the title, dummy...

(Disclaimer: I am getting the cart before the horse here, but....) I made a really great badge for the Allied version of Panzer Aces that we talked about; it's amazing how many good badge ideas come to me when I'm supposed to be working

Must finish the Jagdtiger, must finish the Jagdtiger...
 

More progress on the JagdTiger today.  I spent about 6 hours sitting on the bed with my ceramic tile work bench slogging away on the road wheels.  There were 4 sprue attachment points on each road wheel and a very obvious seam all the way around each and every one of them, which required a lot of trimming and sanding.  It was fairly mindless work though and it allowed me to watch Parts 1 through 6 of that great World War I on the Military Channel which I had recored on the DVR.  I have 4 more episodes to go and will watch them in the morning while I build the upper hull. 

I may start on the Friuls later tonight although my hands are a bit tired from the road wheels. 

The suspension arms, rear plate, jack brackets, drive sprockets and idler wheels have been assembled.  The cleanup on the outer drive sprockets were especially tedious.... lots of flash from the mold seams.

Now it's time to clean up and assemble all the road wheels. 

dupes wrote:

"Blacken It"? Never heard of such a technique...got a link or anything to enlighten us?

The cleanup of the suspension arms is finally finished.  It was a bit tedious, but nothing too challenging..... just worked on them while watching TV with my lovely wife this evening while enjoying some good Cabernet.  

And some good news!  My Friulmodel tracks for the JagdTiger have arrived ($33 on ebay), and my LHS (High Sierra Hobbies) has "Blacken It" in stock.  I read a great article on the technique in my favorite new model magazine.  I'll post pics of the whole routine when I get to that stage of the build.  Construction of the Friulmodel tracks begins tomorrow evening, again while chilling in front of the TV with my wife, and some more good Cabernet. 

I'll post some pics tomorrow after I get the suspension arms attached and other hull bits attached.  

I spent some time working on the lower hull of the JagdTiger. 

The cleanup on the suspension arms is a bit tedious, there are nasty little mold seems and sprue attachment points that need cleaning up.  Ultimately you won't really be able to see them unless you lift the tank up and look underneath, but I just can't attach them as is.  

The plastic individual links included in the kit are freaking me out, so I'm going to order a set of Friulmodel tracks and try out the Blacken It technique I read in the new issue of one of my favorite model magazines.  I didn't realize how easy it is to use Blacken It on white metal tracks until I saw that article with the pics. 

Hermesminiatures wrote:

LOL, yeah. The research has been fun....but it isn't a "Group Study"!

Ahhhh....that's quite humorous.

Hermes, do you have an edited badge for the Panzer Aces GS available?

Thanks Scott-great minds think alike......

I did open the box last night and review the kit (1/48th Tamiya Tiger).  I don't like the fact that the tools are molded to the hull, but it will give me an opportunity to be creative in painting & masking.  Thinking about ordering some PE for fenders, mud guards & exhaust shields...With a little luck and a good tail wind, I should be able to start sometime in March....

Construction began last night! 

No issues so far.  There are a heck of a lot of roadwheels, but no rubber rims!  muwahahahaaaa!!!!   

It's funny, I have a PzKpfw II Ausf. F and a PzKpfw 38(t) Ausf. F on my workbench..... the JagdTiger is freakin' HUGE sitting next to those! 

bobbaily wrote:

espins1 wrote:  bufflehead wrote: Hold on Scott!  You haven't even started the Jagdtiger yet??  OK, now I feel a whole lot better for not doing any work on my Von Rosen King Tiger!!  LOL!!  No kidding about all the great GBs!  I pulled my kit off my "staging" area and was looking through it last night.  I think it's time to get to work on it, so assembly begins in about 45 min (as soon as I get home from work!)    Its already February which means our deadline will be coming on pretty fast!    ...speaking of deadlines, are we talking the FIRST day of Spring or the LAST day of Spring?..

At the rate I'm going, last day of spring.....   

espins1 wrote:

bufflehead wrote: Hold on Scott!  You haven't even started the Jagdtiger yet??  OK, now I feel a whole lot better for not doing any work on my Von Rosen King Tiger!!  LOL!!  No kidding about all the great GBs!  I pulled my kit off my "staging" area and was looking through it last night.  I think it's time to get to work on it, so assembly begins in about 45 min (as soon as I get home from work!)    Its already February which means our deadline will be coming on pretty fast!

...speaking of deadlines, are we talking the FIRST day of Spring or the LAST day of Spring?..

bufflehead wrote:

Hold on Scott!  You haven't even started the Jagdtiger yet??  OK, now I feel a whole lot better for not doing any work on my Von Rosen King Tiger!!  LOL!!  No kidding about all the great GBs!

I pulled my kit off my "staging" area and was looking through it last night.  I think it's time to get to work on it, so assembly begins in about 45 min (as soon as I get home from work!)    Its already February which means our deadline will be coming on pretty fast!