Panzer Aces GB January 2007 to May 31, 2008

Looks very nice so far Glyn, I can't wait to see it with some paint. 

Also, I'm digging through my reference books hoping to find a picture of Bix's JagdPanther, or at the very least one from the 4th Panzer which should give you a decent frame of reference.  It will give me something to do while my wife has another chick flick on upstairs (any movie with Diane Keaton in it is always a dreadful chick flick )

Hiya all!  Received my two books yesterday and been reading like mad trying to research Leutnant von Rosen's history and Tiger IIs in general.  The books are

The Combat History of schwere Panzer-Abteilung 503 by J.J. Fedorowicz Publishing

The "King Tiger" Vol. II  by Wolfgang Schneider

Lots of good information here.  The first book is a must if you are interested in sPzAbt 503, the second if you want more info on King Tiger units and operations.  Unfortunately there isn't much information on von Rosen's Tiger II.  It seems he was in command of a Tiger I during his exploits outside of Caen in July of 44.  His Tiger and those of 3 Kompanie duked it out with a bunch of British Shermans (75mm) and Fireflys.  His Tiger #311 was damaged by British shelling soon afterwards and later rendered inoperative by Allied carpet bombing.   This same carpet bombing totally wiped out nearly all of 3 Kompanie's Tigers and they were pulled back from the front lines to be refitted with new Tiger IIs.  Von Rosen was issued a Tiger II, but there is no indication if it was a Porsche or Henschel turret (the company received 10 Ps and 2 Hs). His new Tiger was also # 311 but it was destroyed during railroad transport by a fighter/bomber attack soon afterwards and there is no indication if it was even used in combat.  Later he was issued another Tiger II (H) and the unit was sent to Hungary.  No indicaton of what # this Tiger was.

So now I have a question.  I really want to build a Tiger II for this group build (as we already have some Tigers, Jagdtigers, Panthers, and Jagdpanthers).  It seems that the only sure bet for von Rosen would be Tiger II #311, even though there isn't any evidence that it was used in combat or what turret it had.  Would I be going against the spirit of this GB if I built a Porsche Tiger II #311 in honor of Leutnant von Rosen?

Whatever I build though, these books are fascinating reading!  I'd luv to share any of this info.

Good afternoon all,

I've been meaning to sit down this week and reply to some your posts and give you an update of my own project as well. However, this is the first opportunity I've had.

Where to begin??   At the beginning, of course!!

Glyn - . Can't wait to see the finished product! I'll chk and see if I can't find something on Bix's Jadgpanther.

bufflehead - Let me chk thru my copy of Tigers at the Front by Thomas L. Jentz. It's got a lot of the Porsche Tiger II pics; some during the Normandy campaign.  

Hermesminiatures - I've had my eye on an Etchmate for a while now. I'll seriously consider getting one now.

espins -  Thanks for suggesting Wolfgang Scnieder's books. Tigers in Combat II and Tiger I on the Western Front by Jean Restayn will be here next week. Please add the old stand-bys: Panzer Colors I (Camo), II (Army unit markings), & III (Waffen SS unit markings) by Squadron/Signal to the Reference List. I'm not sure if they are still in print or not, but if you ran across a copy @ the hobby shop... SS Armor, Pictorial History of the Armored Formations by Squadron/Signal is still available. Also please add the following to Karl Mobius' entry on the Ace's List: SS-Hauptsturmführer Rolf "Karl" Möbius - Company Commander, 1st Company, 101st (Heavy) SS Panzer Battalion (schwere SS Pz.Abt. 101).

Decals - Someone mentioned aftermarket decals. I'd like to suggest Archer Fine Transfers. These are Dry Transfer decals and can be used as Wet transfer with the proper preparation. I've used them as Dry transfer only and can't speak about the Wet transfer process. I've used the Generic Stencil Lettering (white) and some of the flags (US 48 star,Russian,British) and found them to be of the best quality and very easy to work with. What I like the most is they unconditionally guarantee their stuff. If I it up, I can get new ones - chk out the FAQ page.

I got my aluminum barrel and Fruilmodel tracks earlier this week and will must likely start the track assembly first - I want to dig deeper and see if I can't find a photo of Mobius' Tiger. So far I've found pics of the 1st Company, 3rd Platoon leader's Mid Prod. and a late model Tiger I from the 1st company, but can't see a turret number. Not too great a loss - I'm going to build a Mid Production model - I hope! . Additionally, this will give me time to clear the Matilda II, M60A1 Blazer, M60A2, Char B1 bis, and M26 Dragon Wagon w/ Wirbelwind off the bench .

I've got Monday and Tuesday off and then it's back to the grindstone. I'll make the most of my time and hope to reply to the RFI's (Request for Information) before Wednesday. Time to get to bench! .

-thePostman

ok 1st the serious part

comet won't it be alot harder to paint the inner areaof the chassis and the wheels that way?

2nd the not serious or half serious part

how about a m-47 patton tank as in the battle of the bulge the command tank of the character played by Robert Shaw

espins1 wrote:

Hey guys, I just received 2 books that I ordered from Amazon.  Both of these are excellent! Germany's Panther Tank The Quest for Combat Supremacy by Thomas L. Jentz Anything and everything you'd ever want to know about the Panther, all of it's variants, configurations, production statistics etc.  I highly recommend this as THE Panther reference book.  One of the things I really like about this book is that the auther has spent decades doing the research and has only used original source material so as to prevent perpetrating the myths and mis-information that keep spewing around the internet and other publications. Tigers in Combat I by Wolfgang Schneider This is an excellent book on Tigers and their units.  Very good reference as it has a time log for each and every unit that used the Tiger, documents their engagements, kills and losses by date and everthing.  This might prove invaluable for those of us building a Tiger I or Tiger II.  There is also a 2nd bood that covers the Waffen SS and the named units such as Grossdeutschland.  If I had been paying attention I would have order both..... oh well, going to go order Tigers in Combat II right now.

Espins, can you check in your new Panther book to see if any German Panzer Acres used any early Panther Gs in the 3rd Pz Rgt, 12 Pz Div "Hitlerjugend" in the Ardennes 1944, or the Pz Abt 1, Pz Rgt 1, 1 Pz Div "LAH" in Normandy 1944? As a last resort, maybe you can check on Panthe "I14" from the Pz Rgt 27 19 Pz Div in Warsaw 1944. These are the versions of the Panther offered in Dragon's 1/72 scale kit with molded on Zimm. If I can't find any Aces that were in these units that used this Panther then I'll have to bow out of this one. I'm coming up dry with every internet search. I keep getting the same old sites and none of them give me any info. I'd love to do this, but it's getting harder and harder to find anything.

Back to the shovel to keep digging..... 

well duke to help you out a lil I know someone here was talking about a gentleman thats always on the history chanel(hope someone else can remeber his name) he was an ace in the "Hitlerjugend" and in normandy they were using G's. Hitlerjugend.

 there is a site that gives some names of tankes from HJ and some of them are NC winners they dont give #s of tanks but it will help track down aces

Duke Maddog wrote:

Espins, can you check in your new Panther book to see if any German Panzer Acres used any early Panther Gs in the 3rd Pz Rgt, 12 Pz Div "Hitlerjugend" in the Ardennes 1944, or the Pz Abt 1, Pz Rgt 1, 1 Pz Div "LAH" in Normandy 1944? As a last resort, maybe you can check on Panthe "I14" from the Pz Rgt 27 19 Pz Div in Warsaw 1944. These are the versions of the Panther offered in Dragon's 1/72 scale kit with molded on Zimm. If I can't find any Aces that were in these units that used this Panther then I'll have to bow out of this one. I'm coming up dry with every internet search. I keep getting the same old sites and none of them give me any info. I'd love to do this, but it's getting harder and harder to find anything. Back to the shovel to keep digging.....

Hi Duke,

I did some preliminary digging and found some charts with Panther counts for the 12th SS and when they received additional replacements.  I need to do some further digging to found out if the first batch was Ausf. A or Ausf. G.  The replacements they received for the Ardennes campaign were most likely early Ausf. G.  I'm doing some "honey do's" at the moment, but when I get a chance I'll dig a little deeper, and also get the info on LAH and 10th Pz. Div.

the Postman wrote:

espins -  Thanks for suggesting Wolfgang Scnieder's books. Tigers in Combat II and Tiger I on the Western Front by Jean Restayn will be here next week. Please add the old stand-bys: Panzer Colors I (Camo), II (Army unit markings), & III (Waffen SS unit markings) by Squadron/Signal to the Reference List. I'm not sure if they are still in print or not, but if you ran across a copy @ the hobby shop... SS Armor, Pictorial History of the Armored Formations by Squadron/Signal is still available. Also please add the following to Karl Mobius' entry on the Ace's List: SS-Hauptsturmführer Rolf "Karl" Möbius - Company Commander, 1st Company, 101st (Heavy) SS Panzer Battalion (schwere SS Pz.Abt. 101). -thePostman

Ah yes, I have the 3 Panzer Colors books, good stuff.  There are a few errors in them, but for the most part they are a good reference.  They are out of print, but can still be found on e-bay.  I think I picked up my set about 2 years ago for around $45 if I remember correctly.  I'll add them to the reference list as soon as I get a chance. 

Lethal19 wrote:

well duke to help you out a lil I know someone here was talking about a gentleman thats always on the history chanel(hope someone else can remeber his name) he was an ace in the "Hitlerjugend" and in normandy they were using G's. Hitlerjugend.  there is a site that gives some names of tankes from HJ and some of them are NC winners they dont give #s of tanks but it will help track down aces

I have a History Channel episode recorded on my DVR where he was interviewed.  I'll pull it up in a bit and get you his name.  I know his name but can't think of it at the moment....

bobbaily wrote:

Well, I'm ready to commit-Major Peter Frantz StuG III G Eastern Front.  I'll be using the 1/35 Dragon Smart kit (I think).  I've got the squadron book on order, but I may (i.e., will probably)need some assistance from the resident experts.  Not sure when I'll get started-hopefully within a couple of months at the earliest, but at least now it's in the queue.

Oooo nice Bob, the StuG III G is one of my favorite AFVs.  The squadron book is pretty good, I think you'll like it.  If you need any info, let me know and I can see what I can dig up. 

Thanks for the help Scott, and also to you Lethal for the Hitlerjugend site. I don't know why that site didn't pop up for me during my ssearch. It may have but I probably bypassed it, closed it by accident or something....

I'll check these out, as well as several new sources that I just got loaned to me. Thanks again for the assists gentlemen!

Heres a small update..

I have been trying to build as much as I can but it's a real pain not being able to paint. Fortunately the room I am renting is no longer availible so I will be moving soon. As long as my interveiw goes well tomorrow. Then Ill get my own place soon after, and yay painting wont be a prob... Still waiting for my decals to come in... so yea.. uhhm I have been trying to find a side pic of the tank, to see how to set the wheels.. the holes are made so that u can adjsut how they fit... so I would liek to make it correct.. Heres a pic of my small progress so far..

I just started reading a new book:

"The 12th SS" The History of the Hitler Youth Panzer Division: Volume 1 by Hubert Meyer.

So far it's been a really interesting read, although the first couple of chapters are a bit dry as they cover the formation of the unit, statistics on unit compositions including shortages of men and vehicles as well as training.  It's getting more interesting as I just started the chapter on their deployment in Normandy.  This is a huge book of about 575 pages... and is only Volume 1! 

One of the things I've really enjoyed so far about the book is all the considerations that go into training and equiping a Panzer division.  I was never in the military so I know little about the logistical side of the equation and man, there is a lot that goes into it!  And so many things that you just don't think about!  I know what they mean now when I hear the term "Military Science". 

psychoblue23 wrote:

Heres a small update.. I have been trying to build as much as I can but it's a real pain not being able to paint. Fortunately the room I am renting is no longer availible so I will be moving soon. As long as my interveiw goes well tomorrow. Then Ill get my own place soon after, and yay painting wont be a prob... Still waiting for my decals to come in... so yea.. uhhm I have been trying to find a side pic of the tank, to see how to set the wheels.. the holes are made so that u can adjsut how they fit... so I would liek to make it correct.. Heres a pic of my small progress so far..

Nice progress so far!  Out of curiosity, how are you planning on painting your road wheels, on or off the tank?

espins1 wrote:

Lethal19 wrote: well duke to help you out a lil I know someone here was talking about a gentleman thats always on the history chanel(hope someone else can remeber his name) he was an ace in the "Hitlerjugend" and in normandy they were using G's. Hitlerjugend.  there is a site that gives some names of tankes from HJ and some of them are NC winners they dont give #s of tanks but it will help track down aces I have a History Channel episode recorded on my DVR where he was interviewed.  I'll pull it up in a bit and get you his name.  I know his name but can't think of it at the moment....

Ok, I went through the shows which I thought the interview was in on the DVR downstairs, no luck.  I know I have it.  I'm pretty sure it's on the DVR upstairs so I'll check that tonight, if I can get my wife away from her chick flicks long enough for me to try and find it. 

espins1 wrote:

psychoblue23 wrote: Heres a small update.. I have been trying to build as much as I can but it's a real pain not being able to paint. Fortunately the room I am renting is no longer availible so I will be moving soon. As long as my interveiw goes well tomorrow. Then Ill get my own place soon after, and yay painting wont be a prob... Still waiting for my decals to come in... so yea.. uhhm I have been trying to find a side pic of the tank, to see how to set the wheels.. the holes are made so that u can adjsut how they fit... so I would liek to make it correct.. Heres a pic of my small progress so far.. Nice progress so far!  Out of curiosity, how are you planning on painting your road wheels, on or off the tank?

I actually posted that up a while ago, becasue i was not sure. I got one response saying he uses white glue to temporarily gets it together then paints.. Any suggestions?

Jean Michel,Espin's and Postman......thanks for the feedback guy's

Durr....I paint most thing's with everything attatched,let's just say I like a challenge

Right this bad baby is now ready for paint,it's been a great kit to build and the only AM added is the Jordi Rubio barrel.

All I'v got to do is get a pic of Bix's Jagd.My brother in law has a very large collection of Axis pictures from Kursk so I'm going over to raid his hard drive later this week to see if I can come up with any pictures of Bix's Jagd....I'll post up anything interesting I come across

Here is a shot of how I do my wheels.  This is for my Panther Ausf. A for the Italeri build:

I write the part numbers off to the side as the wheels can be a bit tricky to tell apart. 

And those that need the other side painted as well, I just wait until the next day, flip 'em over and voila! 

Duke Maddog wrote:

Thanks Espins. I'm still coming up dry with everything I've looked at. I got nothing. Looks like I'm gonna be out of this one. I'll keep trying for a few more days; if nothing breaks, I'll quietly step out.

I'm sure there are some Panzer Aces with the 3rd regiment of the 12th SS.  Things have been a bit hectic so I haven't been able to exhaust all my resources yet.  I should have some time tonight.  Heck, I should be able to find something in the book on the 12th SS Panzer Division I just started reading, so don't give up yet. 

Good morning

I have been a lurker on the site for quiet some time and have now decided to join up. I would like to be a part of the Panzer Aces GB. I was keen to build black 401, the Panther Ausf. D of Barkmann in the Mius region autumn 1943. I have the Italeri kit, decals, DML figures and a few bits to make this tank. I dont know if anyone has blagged 401 yet? IF they have I was thinking of a Panther Ausf. G of the 1st Pz. Div.

 Is there a list showing what tank/ace people have selected?

 Regards

Steven

Mius43 wrote:

Good morning I have been a lurker on the site for quiet some time and have now decided to join up. I would like to be a part of the Panzer Aces GB. I was keen to build black 401, the Panther Ausf. D of Barkmann in the Mius region autumn 1943. I have the Italeri kit, decals, DML figures and a few bits to make this tank. I dont know if anyone has blagged 401 yet? IF they have I was thinking of a Panther Ausf. G of the 1st Pz. Div.  Is there a list showing what tank/ace people have selected?  Regards Steven

Welcome to the forums Steven and to the GB.   There is a list of what tank/ace each people choose at the first page.    

bufflehead wrote:

So now I have a question.  I really want to build a Tiger II for this group build (as we already have some Tigers, Jagdtigers, Panthers, and Jagdpanthers).  It seems that the only sure bet for von Rosen would be Tiger II #311, even though there isn't any evidence that it was used in combat or what turret it had.  Would I be going against the spirit of this GB if I built a Porsche Tiger II #311 in honor of Leutnant von Rosen?

 Some good news and some bad.... 

Bufflehead - I've managed to locate pixs (in Tigers at the Front by Jentz) of von Rosen's teammates (312, 313, & 314) in Porsche turreted Tiger II's, but no 311. They were taken @ the gunnery range. If you want, I'll post them for you - just say the word.  

Glyn - sorry old buddy, no luck with Herr Bix. Hope you can find something @ your brother's. 

I got my copies of Tigers in Combat II and Tiger I on the Western Front by Jean Restayn today. I salute you espins. Thanks for the lead. Tigers  in Combat II is awesome ...It's really helped me better understand the unit history of the 101 sSS Panzer. Plus a few more nuggets about my ace...slowly I creep, step by step...inch by inch. However, He's not listed among the battalion's Top Scorers Maybe Hermesminatures could help shed some light on things?

Anyhoo, I highly recommend it for anyone working on a Waffen SS Tiger ace or someone from one of the "named divisions"...Gross Deutschland, etc. I've only glanced thru the other one - but it looks promising...althought I 've seen more than a few of the same photos in Tigers in Combat II.

Mius43 wrote:

Good morning I have been a lurker on the site for quiet some time and have now decided to join up. I would like to be a part of the Panzer Aces GB. I was keen to build black 401, the Panther Ausf. D of Barkmann in the Mius region autumn 1943. I have the Italeri kit, decals, DML figures and a few bits to make this tank. I dont know if anyone has blagged 401 yet? IF they have I was thinking of a Panther Ausf. G of the 1st Pz. Div.  Is there a list showing what tank/ace people have selected?  Regards Steven

Hello Steven, welcome to the build! 

Take a look at the first page of the thread and you'll see in posts 1 and 2 a list of the particpants and what they're building, and a list of the aces and who's building it.  The list is not comprehensive, so if you know of another ace you'd like to do we can add him to the list.  Also if you need help getting some info, many of us here might be able to dig up some info for you. 

the Postman wrote:

I got my copies of Tigers in Combat II and Tiger I on the Western Front by Jean Restayn today. I salute you espins. Thanks for the lead. Tigers  in Combat II is awesome ...It's really helped me better understand the unit history of the 101 sSS Panzer. Plus a few more nuggets about my ace...slowly I creep, step by step...inch by inch. However, He's not listed among the battalion's Top Scorers Maybe Hermesminatures could help shed some light on things? Anyhoo, I highly recommend it for anyone working on a Waffen SS Tiger ace or someone from one of the "named divisions"...Gross Deutschland, etc. I've only glanced thru the other one - but it looks promising...althought I 've seen more than a few of the same photos in Tigers in Combat II.

Ya, I was very impressed with the first Tiger book so I immediately ordered the 2nd one as well (wish I had noticed there were two in the first place as the named and SS units are in book II, mine should be here soon).  I really like the timeline/log for each unit as well as the many great pictures!  Great stuff!