BomberGruppe GB - 2007 (Luftwaffe Bombers)

I received my ProModeller 1/48 JU 88A-4 in the mail yesterday.  I'm still trying to decide which scheme to do.  There are three that I like that came with the kit. 

I like the splinter scheme of KG3 Blitz, and know I can pull that off:

I like the desert scheme of LG1 Italy and know I can pull that off:

I LOVE the Mediterranean splinter scheme with the wave pattern of KG54 Totenkopf, but not sure I can pull that off!   

Anyone have any ideas on how to do the last scheme?  It looks fantastic, but also looks really hard to do.

Scott:

I'm with you...the last scheme is just KILLER! From what I've see on-line, people either free hand (no caffeine for HOURS!)  or use a fine tipped paint pen. In a way, you can't go wrong with the paint pen because, after all, they're squiggly lines...

Either way, I admire you're willingness to tackle an advanced scheme. This will be one nice looking plane when you're done.

mucker wrote:

Scott: I'm with you...the last scheme is just KILLER! From what I've see on-line, people either free hand (no caffeine for HOURS!)  or use a fine tipped paint pen. In a way, you can't go wrong with the paint pen because, after all, they're squiggly lines... Either way, I admire you're willingness to tackle an advanced scheme. This will be one nice looking plane when you're done.

The past 8 months have been all about pushing myself to the limit of my skills, so you know what?  I'm gonna do it!  I love the wave scheme over the splinter. 

I like the idea of using a paint pen as I'm sure I could get resonably consistant lines with them.  Are there any paint pens you'd recommend that would come in colors fairly close to what I need?  The upper surfaces require Light Gray RLM77 for the wave pattern.  The lower surfaces require Dark Gray RLM74.

Me and my big mouth! THere I go speaking without thinking again...

It slipped my mind that there are specific colors to paint...

I know that Testors, Gunze and Tamiya all carry a limited number of paint markers and a brief search yielded that none are in RLM colors... Since I've gotten you into this, let me do a web search to see what's out there at art supply stores, etc...

mucker wrote:

Me and my big mouth! THere I go speaking without thinking again... It slipped my mind that there are specific colors to paint... I know that Testors, Gunze and Tamiya all carry a limited number of paint markers and a brief search yielded that none are in RLM colors... Since I've gotten you into this, let me do a web search to see what's out there at art supply stores, etc...

 It's all good Mucker.  I was even thinking, after studying the texture of the wave patterns, that I might even be able to get away with colored pencils, light gray for up top, and dark gray for below.  What do you think?  The colors wouldn't necessarily have to be exact as a dust coat, oil wash and weathering will make any slight difference in color a moot point.

espins1 wrote:

mucker wrote: Me and my big mouth! THere I go speaking without thinking again... It slipped my mind that there are specific colors to paint... I know that Testors, Gunze and Tamiya all carry a limited number of paint markers and a brief search yielded that none are in RLM colors... Since I've gotten you into this, let me do a web search to see what's out there at art supply stores, etc...      It's all good Mucker.  I was even thinking, after studying the texture of the wave patterns, that I might even be able to get away with colored pencils, light gray for up top, and dark gray for below.  What do you think?  The colors wouldn't necessarily have to be exact as a dust coat, oil wash and weathering will make any slight difference in color a moot point.

That's definately a good possiblity. Some other outside-the-box ideas are:

• water color (or mix your own tempra paint) and a brush. THis would be easy to correct mistakes and post-weather since it's water based. a good seal with future afterwards will lock it in.
•  pastel chalk stick (good texture, possible color match)
• Have you heard of the "Spaghetti" methid? This is no joke. You pre-spray the squiggle color, then set cooked spaghetti in squiggle to get your pattern, then you spray the "base color", leaving the spaghetti pattern where the pasta was. I've seen this done nicely and the spaghetti residue clean off easily.

Just some ideas. I'll see if I can find the spaghetti write up on-line...

Spaghetti!!!!!

Cool, now I HAVE heard of everything.  Actually I just had spaghetti for lunch but I really like the idea and I think it defintiely could work.  I am planning to do a squiggle on one of the Ar 234's that I am working on so I would really like to see that article.

THis was it, over from Hyperscale. If you do a search in the PLane Talking forum, it will come up.

Just, ah...be sure not to EAT the spaghetti after you've painted it.

I now have a great idea for how to paint the "meatballs" on American aircraft...(oh, I just kill myself sometimes...)

I thought about the spaghetti or silly putty method first however there is a catch.  The technique would work fantastic assuming solid color upper, and solid color lower, however I have to have a splinter scheme underneath.  There would be no way to mask it off properly to get both the splinter and the squiggles.

I'm leaning towards either hand brushing it, or using some form of colored pencil or chalk.  I'm just not good enough to freehand airbush that, not too mention I don't think my air brush could make lines that fine. 

Yeah I think the spaghetti route is out due to the masking of the splinter.  Looks like free hand is the only way to go.  If you can sign a check with an airbrush... go for it.  That would be way cool.  I like the desert scheme between the other 2.

Scott,

I considered that squiggly line scheme for both my Ju 88 and my Do 217, and I even experimented on the 217 using my airbrush before I laid down the final splinter scheme for that bird.  I was not happy with the performance, which is why I ultimately decided not to pursue that.  But I am feeling renewed with these recent threads, so perhaps I'll tackle that scheme on another German warbird I have in the stash, a 1/32 Bf110.  Like the idea of pastels or hand-painting with Tempera paints, seems actually pretty easy that way.  But I didn't think about outside-the-box solutions (and as a computer programmer, I get paid to do that kind of thinking!)

And on that note, I am ready to unveil my builds.

Here is the Do 217E-5:  Standard Luftwaffe splinter scheme with a fair amount of weathering, mostly evident on the underside but also present on the upper surfaces.

The kit I built:

Top side:

Port side:

Front:

Underside:

Rear Wheel:

Main Gear Detailing and weathering:

And the cool guided missile whose name I cannot recall at this moment:

Here is the Ju88A-4 depicting the LG/1 Italy scheme Scott references above.  Had a lot of fun with this one.  Masked the white ID stripe rather than using the kit decal (I hate those kind of decals as they never want to go on straight).  Heavily weathered this one with oil streaks, mud and chipped paint.

The kit I built:

Top side:

Starboard side:

Port side weathering:

Front:

Rear:

Engine Close-up:

Underside:

Weathering and Wheel Detail:

Phew, it's done!  But really everyone, I enjoyed being part of this GB.  I look forward to seeing the other entries that are currently being worked on, or will be worked on, for this GB.

Scott, on your 88, one thing to be aware of is those dive brakes.  The instructions are clear about placing the decal before installing the brakes, but the decals they provide to put on the brakes don't work so well.  I ended up ditching those decals and painting the cross on the brakes.  Really looking forward to seeing what you come up with on your 88.

Thanks everyone,

Steven

Steven:

Wow...two tremendous builds! Especially considering these were bombers...not easy. I also like how you did one clean and one weathered. Way to mix it up. You're the first "DOuble Bomber" in the Gruppe, and I think Carsanab is working his magic on a special set of wings for you (first page), so give it a few days and it will be posted.

Which one of the kits was easier? Can you share your thoughts about the kits? I've got a Dragon Ju-88C-6 somewhere in the basement that will either move up or down in the build order...

Thanks for being a  part of the build. 

Mucker,

Both of these kits were challenging in their own way, but the Dornier was definitely the easier of the two.  I don't know if that kit was a re-box like the Junkers, but it seemed more like a typical Monogram kit.  It had a some what difficult assembly for the fuselage but otherwise it went together fairly easily.

The Junkers on the other hand had no locator pins and occasionally some of the parts didn't want to fit properly.  That last part may have been more me than any shortcoming of the kit, though.  I feel like I spent more time aligning parts on the Junkers than on the Dornier, and I spent more time sanding seams (again, more me than the kit).

I'd recommend both kits but I think the Junkers would be better served with an experienced modeler.

Other than the Eduard masks and seat belts and some bits of wiring I have in the supplies box, I built these kits OOB.

I really enjoyed building these kits, and thanks for inviting me into the GB.

Steven

Steven

A fine looking pair of bombers.  I would like ot have seen that squiggle pattern though.

razordws wrote:

Spaghetti!!!!! Cool, now I HAVE heard of everything.  Actually I just had spaghetti for lunch but I really like the idea and I think it defintiely could work.  I am planning to do a squiggle on one of the Ar 234's that I am working on so I would really like to see that article.

I was thinking spaghetti but I couldn't figure out how to deal with the tomato sauce....

Well, congratulations on being first to the finish line with a double kill, Steven.  They look good, and the speed you got them both done is impressive.  The 88 looks good and tired, like most of the Ju-88's I've seen photos of.   I was glad to see that there is a fair amount of dihedral on the Ju-88's wing, I struggled with that on my Ju-388 today.  I took about half of the dihedral out that the kit had to begin with, and I'm glad I did because right now it looks like your model.  

I've heard that the DML kits have some poor fit problems, especially with the wings where the tips are fit to the main panels and also at the wing root.  Looks like you handled that just fine.  Way to go!

Great looking pair Steven..........Did that come out right???

Two valued additions to your collection. Top notch. I love all the glass on the front of em both. Must have been a female dog to mask up.

...Guy

Thanks everyone for their comments!

Marc, I too really did want to do the squiggly line scheme but after some experimentation did not have the confidence to tackle it.  And I was not terribly keen on the idea of stripping an entire model if it had come out the way I thought it probably would (badly).  I probably wouldn't use the spaghetti method to enact this scheme on any future build, as I'd much rather eat the spaghetti than paint it , but I have a lot more confidence in my abilities with a brush and Tempera paints than with an airbrush.

John, yes there were major fit problems with the wings on the 88.  The wing tips are separate pieces - neither fit snugly and required a fair amount of filler.  I used Swanny's method to apply putty to both of these builds - taping off the area to be puttied, applying the putty then removing the tape, which apparently keeps putty from getting into areas where you don't want it, like panel lines, etc.  I think I ended up getting the putty on a bit thick and didn't sand it down as much as I should have, so if you really look, you can see where the putty lines are (the pictures don't show this, however ).  The wing roots didn't want to go together well either, which caused the dihedral issue.  I resolved that by attaching each wing (I used a medium viscosity CA that gave me a little time), eye-balling it head-on, and making minor adjustments while the CA set.  I do think that I got the dihedrals pretty close to accurate.

Guy, well I'm not sure what "pair" you're referring to, but I suppose if I was a woman .... oh nevermind!  But yes, these were both time consumming efforts to mask.  I used the Eduard masks for the canopies and windows, and I've become a believer in these masks.  Any time I have a kit with this kind of canopy framing, like the B5N2 Kate, I'll be checking on the availability of masks.  Roughly $12 US but that saved me loads of frustration in using my standard 3M blue tape, cutting all those tiny pieces and putting them on.  Here it was just a simple process of matching a piece on the mask sheet to a glass panel and putting it on.  Done! To do the desert scheme I cut varied shapes in card stock and sprayed through those.  I used the 3M blue tape cut to shape to effect the splinter scheme on the 217.  Finally I used some Tamiya tape to mask off the ID band on the 88.

 - Steven

Aggieman wrote:

I think I ended up getting the putty on a bit thick and didn't sand it down as much as I should have, so if you really look, you can see where the putty lines are (the pictures don't show this, however ).

Ahhh...so we use the same photographer, I see. He's a tad expensive, but he stays away from the problem areas.

hey guys,

just wanted to give you guys an update.

while i was caring for my wife this last week after her knee sugery,i was able to

progress some on the condor. i have a couple of decals left to apply then they will

be done. then another coat of future. going to take a break for a bit on it after that.

 had some problems with the decals that almost put me over the edge....lol.

 but i got them fixed.

jason

hey guys,

the wife is doing well.

she was hobbling around without her cruches today.

she starts rehab tomorrow.

the decals on the condor are done.

im going to work on some other projects for a little while.

need to take a break from it for a while.

Man, I'm glad you guys are a captive audience so I have somebody to whine to about the canopy on this Ju-388.  I knew it was going to tax my meager talents, but yuk.  I think it's going to work out OK, I havent even cut on the spare canopy yet.  I have had to remove the front part of the canopy because it moved out of place as the white glue dried, and I took the opportunity to trim the resin it fits against to help the fit.  Three piece vac canopies are a new thing for me.  Learning is so painful.

However, I am liking the look of this beast, it conveys the Schnell of the german schnellbomber program quite well.  The bulk of the nacelles with the lower intakes and the turbochargers up on top gives this airplane a more powerful look than any other Ju-88, and the clean lines of the canopy help the look too.  There is very fine detail in the castings of the kit, and the way it is engineered is allowing me to keep most all of it.  I hope I don't lose much in the painting.